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Old 7th September 2017, 07:43 PM   #881
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Red Dog has been good for me of late in the online game I have been playing. I had a good run. The odds are supposedly worse than blackjack but it has a various jackpots that make it more interesting to play
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Old 13th September 2017, 06:17 AM   #882
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hi, I am starting a small bitmining business and am wondering how I should set it up. I I am not planning on making much money at it at first and not worried about liability. Should I set it up as a DBA at first? Will that protect the name of the business or do I have to trademark it?
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Old 13th September 2017, 06:48 AM   #883
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
If you think that only one person wants bitcoin then you must know their name and address.
Now you're just playing games. I'm sure you understood what I meant in context quite well. You were wrong about BTC being obsolete. Let it go.
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Old 13th September 2017, 08:57 AM   #884
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Now you're just playing games. I'm sure you understood what I meant in context quite well. You were wrong about BTC being obsolete. Let it go.
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Obsolescence: the process of becoming obsolete or outdated and no longer used.
If I am expected to accept mere assertion as proof then I might as well have a bit of fun while I'm at it.
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Old 13th September 2017, 09:00 AM   #885
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
If I am expected to accept mere assertion as proof then I might as well have a bit of fun while I'm at it.
Again, you're playing silly and transparent word games. Something can be obsolete without being completely unused. That's why Win98 is obsolete.
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Old 13th September 2017, 10:03 AM   #886
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Again, you're playing silly and transparent word games. Something can be obsolete without being completely unused. That's why Win98 is obsolete.
That's a pretty piss weak comparison.

For one thing, bitcoin hasn't been superseded by a newer crypto-currency. For another, bitcoin is still being bought and sold as much as it ever has been. The price keeps rising for the most part. Any economist will tell you what it means if the price rises but the supply remains constant.
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Old 14th September 2017, 02:04 PM   #887
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http://www.investors.com/news/bitcoi...utdown-certain
Quote:
Bitcoin's sell-off continued on Thursday on more reports that China was cracking down on the currency, with one big exchange there set to halt bitcoin trading and a broader ban on exchanges "certain."

The bitcoin's value tumbled 14.5% to $3,329.69 in afternoon trading. At the beginning of this month, bitcoin was worth around $4,700.
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Old 14th September 2017, 02:38 PM   #888
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That's a pretty piss weak comparison.
It's not a comparison. It's an example of something that is obsolete but still in use. This means that you are WRONG.
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Old 14th September 2017, 04:55 PM   #889
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
It's not a comparison. It's an example of something that is obsolete but still in use. This means that you are WRONG.
The part of the post that you censored showed why I am RIGHT and you haven't got a clue.
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Old 14th September 2017, 04:57 PM   #890
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Is this it? Is this finally the end of bitcoin? For real? Truly ruly?
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Old 18th September 2017, 01:47 AM   #891
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
The fixed supply of bitcoin is its impediment to its use as a currency. The average holder would be reluctant to spend something that constantly appreciates in value (on average).
Ridiculous. I guess you will never abandon the fallacious reasoning which rationalizes money creation, which is at best a regressive tax, and far more common and even worse, theft. Assuming growth in demand for bitcoin remains relatively stable, the law of large numbers will dictate that the extraordinary returns in bitcoin will cease. At that point it may begin to function as a currency, if it doesn't crash or there isn't some systemic event that threatens the integrity of the blockchain. The fact that the supply of bitcoin is limited won't change this, just like it doesn't prevent consumers from buying continuously deflating consumer electronics goods.

You've never adequately explained why we need to accept unlimited taxation/theft (money creation) in order to simply motivate consumers to part with their hard earned money. It makes zero sense, and never will.

Quote:

One erstwhile poster used to brag about paying for his pizzas with bitcoin. At the current price of bitcoin, those were mighty expensive pizzas.
And yet, the bitcoin was sold, and continues to be. My dad sold thousands of shares of Apple Computer in the 80s when I was a kid. Some of those proceeds undoubtedly went to pizzas. At the current price of Apple, those were some mighty expensive pizzas. Of course, I'm not claiming that Apple shares will become "money" at some point (though they are highly liquid), but the properties of bitcoin which enable it to be moved around easily and with the intent of functioning as money may someday cause this to become manifest. And the 21 million supply limit won't prevent this from happening, because people will still spend "money" that appreciates, and they will be happy that they saved their money in bitcoin rather than whichever fiat currency scam that they're exposed to.
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Old 18th September 2017, 02:15 AM   #892
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
The part of the post that you censored showed why I am RIGHT and you haven't got a clue.
Censored? Wow, that's one twisted view of reality you have.

Are you one of those silly posters who think that if one doesn't include every part of the post they respond to in the quote, that means they've erased it from their memories and from reality?

Grow up.
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Old 18th September 2017, 02:47 AM   #893
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Censored? Wow, that's one twisted view of reality you have.

Are you one of those silly posters who think that if one doesn't include every part of the post they respond to in the quote, that means they've erased it from their memories and from reality?

Grow up.
LOL the fact remains that you didn't DARE include that part of the post in your quote let alone discuss it so it doesn't matter if you call that omission "sweet smelling roses", you lose.
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Old 24th October 2017, 03:52 AM   #894
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Time to hurry up and buy Bitcoins! People making money hand over fist.
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Old 24th October 2017, 03:57 AM   #895
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Time to hurry up and buy Bitcoins! People making money hand over fist.
Like getting into flipping houses in 2008. The prices have no where to go but UP!
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Old 30th October 2017, 07:39 PM   #896
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My bitcoin mining dreams went down the tube. Read an article that said that most were Ponzi schemes and the few that aren't are basically like running a virus in your computer the purpose which is to make a few cents a day.

I guess peeps are buying them at my work. One is buying bitcoins mainly and the other one is speculating on new cryptocurrencies that come out periodically.
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Old 31st October 2017, 07:17 PM   #897
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Originally Posted by MinnesotaBrant View Post
My bitcoin mining dreams went down the tube. Read an article that said that most were Ponzi schemes and the few that aren't are basically like running a virus in your computer the purpose which is to make a few cents a day.
Who'd have thunk (apart from everybody)?
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Old 2nd November 2017, 02:51 PM   #898
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So BTC/USD hit over 7k today, and my friend is well on the way to becoming a literal billionaire if this keeps up. That's over 965 minimum wage hours in the US, per bitcoin. Better get to work!

So with the bitcoin market cap approaching 120 billion dollars (roughly 1/7th of the market cap of Apple Computer), does anyone think that central banks aren't involved either directly or indirectly? At some point it must have occurred to them that if they just monetize it and pay off the early adopters, they could obtain control of it?

If this is true, then it would undermine the basic premise of a scarce crypto-currency which is to provide an alternative to fiat money, since everyone would have to eventually go through them to get bitcoin.

Perhaps the only way around the fiat money scam, is to actually ban fiat money.
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Old 15th November 2017, 07:58 AM   #899
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I looked into Bitcoin years ago. I found it difficult to understand and decided not to play. That looks like a bad decision now. Had I invested a little bit of money, I could now be living my dream of having my own country in Africa that I could rule with an iron fist. Oh well.

I'm learning about Blockchain now and it actually seems to be a really interesting technology. I might take the plunge and gamble a bit with one Bitcoin and a basket of also-rans that are cheap.

Although bitcoin is the 'A-brand' now, there are other 'coins' that are better suited for day-to-day use (faster transactions), but I have to learn more about it.

Some weird coins I've seen are for specific goals: there's Pink that aims at the sex industry and Funhouse that aims at online gambling. I truly don't see the need for such specific uses. It reminds me of Pets.com

It may happen that the whole pantheon of cryptocurrencies will come crashing down at some point and a few survivors rising out of the ashes. As happened to railroads and internet companies. After all, Amazon did become what people predicted an Internet retailer could be in 1998, it just happened after a massive crash and shakeout.

ETA:

Or it may not. The thing with railroads and internet was, that the investment bubble paid for the infrastructure that made later success possible (railroads and internet cables). I don't know that applies to cryptocurrencies.
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Old 15th November 2017, 08:54 AM   #900
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I'll just leave this here:

Bitcoin and Blockchain: A Russian Money-laundering Bonanza?
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Old 28th November 2017, 10:27 AM   #901
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With bitcoin having hit $10,000, and with people cashing out thousands of real $$ every day on various markets, I think it's about time for several people from this thread to eat some crow.



http://preev.com/

https://localbitcoins.com
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Old 28th November 2017, 10:35 AM   #902
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
With bitcoin having hit $10,000, and with people cashing out thousands of real $$ every day on various markets, I think it's about time for several people from this thread to eat some crow.



http://preev.com/

https://localbitcoins.com
I don't think anyone here ever said that you couldn't make money with BTC. What was said was that A) BTC looked like a scam (turned out not to be true, imo) and B) that it's difficult to sell a lot of BTC at one time.
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Old 28th November 2017, 12:55 PM   #903
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It is hard to see any realistic trajectory of btc into an actual currency used in everyday transactions - for that it would need to be much more stable and not be seen as an investment expected to bring profit. What makes it practical for crime is not only it's untraceability but also it's convertability into real currencies. If we would, for some bizarre reason, give up modern central banking, then we should use prescious metals as the base.
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Old 29th November 2017, 07:48 AM   #904
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Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrencies are counterfeit by definition. Only sovereign nations may issue legitimate currency.
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Old 29th November 2017, 07:54 AM   #905
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrencies are counterfeit by definition. Only sovereign nations may issue legitimate currency.
Which "legitimate currency" are they facsimiles of?
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Old 29th November 2017, 09:55 AM   #906
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Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
It is hard to see any realistic trajectory of btc into an actual currency used in everyday transactions - for that it would need to be much more stable and not be seen as an investment expected to bring profit. What makes it practical for crime is not only it's untraceability but also it's convertability into real currencies. If we would, for some bizarre reason, give up modern central banking, then we should use prescious metals as the base.
It's not a currency now, it's a digital asset that people expect to appreciate. If and when the price eventually stabilizes, it may or may not function as a currency based on it's properties. You claim it's untraceable, yet the blockchain represents a public ledger of every single bitcoin transaction in history. If you can associate wallets with identities, which isn't that difficult, then you have a complete forensic record of any given individual's bitcoin dealings. In fact, there is a company that is dedicated to just this purpose: https://www.chainalysis.com/. Abolishing the fiat money scam and central banking wouldn't be bizarre, it would be enormously beneficial to humanity at large. I agree that precious metals make the best money, but they would first have to be liberated from the dynastic banking families that stole most of them. I also think freedom in money is important, which is why digital crypto-currencies deserve a seat at the table.
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Old 29th November 2017, 10:05 AM   #907
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrencies are counterfeit by definition. Only sovereign nations may issue legitimate currency.
Clearly, you don't understand what counterfeit means. Bitcoin isn't attempting to pass itself off as anything other than an anti-inflationary digital crypto-currency, which so far is acting more like an asset than a currency.

The US dollar at inception was the spanish milled dollar, defined as having 371.25 grains of fine silver as per the Coinage Act of 1792. Therefore, one could reasonably claim that every single fiat electronic and paper US dollar is a "counterfeit".

I find this to be the most interesting paragraph from the coinage act:

Section 19 of the Act established a penalty of death for debasing the gold or silver coins authorized by the Act, or embezzlement of the metals for those coins, by officers or employees of the mint; this section of the Act apparently remains in effect and would, in theory, continue to apply in the case of "any of the gold or silver coins which shall be struck or coined at the said mint." (At present the only gold or silver coins struck by the US mint are the American Silver Eagle and the American Gold Eagle coins, some Proof coinage at the San Francisco Mint, such as the silver US State Quarters, and much of the Commemorative coinage of the United States.) All other sections of the act have been superseded, as for example the Coinage Act of 1834 changing the silver-to-gold weight ratio. Various acts have subsequently been passed affecting the amount and type of metal in U. S. coins, so that today there is no legal definition of the term "dollar" to be found in U. S. statute.[5][6][7] Current statutes regulating coinage in the United States may be found in Title 31 of the United States Code.

People back then were obviously much more aware of monetary scams, and the importance of honest weights and measures in commerce.
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Old 29th November 2017, 11:38 AM   #908
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The concept is unsustainable and wasteful.

I buy 10 Bitcoins. Transaction #1. I buy an item with 5 Bitcoins. Transaction #2. When there are 2020 transactions there are enough for one ledger block of 1MB. The header of the previous verified block is added to this block (hence the term block-chain). This block is distributed to Bitcoin miners who then compete to find a number (a nonce) which will produce a hashtag which has a target of 32 (or more) leading zeros. This requires such enormous computing power that it takes about 10 minutes to succeed. The first success gets a small number of Bitcoins, and the block is added to the public ledger which is on many computers. All miners then start on the next block.

With every 210,000 blocks the reward is halved. 50 bitcoins up to 210,000, 25 bitcoins up to 420,000 and 12.5 bitcoins up to 630,000. There are currently 496,493 bitcoins. Only 21 million will be produced. Various sites charge a fee of 0 to 2 % per transaction.

The target will be increased in difficulty so that the rate of 1 block every 10 minutes is maintained.

First bitcoin transaction was 10,000 for 2 pizzas . Values: May 2010 = $0.01; Feb 2011 = $1; Jul 2012 = $31; Dec 2012 = $2; Apr 2013 = $266; 2013 and 2014 range = $100 to $1,242; May 2017 = $2,000; Nov 2017 = $9,746.

Number of crypto-currencies is 1,324 and growing. Electricity usage for mining Bitcoin is 29 TeraWattHrs per year. Ireland used 25 TWhrs pa. Electrical usage per transaction is 285 kWhrs. $80 per transaction and increasing rapidly. Visa 82 billion transactions per year. Bitcoin is only 11 million.

It will burst. Any takers on predicting when?
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Old 29th November 2017, 02:40 PM   #909
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Tulips.
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Old 30th November 2017, 12:59 AM   #910
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Tulips.
The naysayers have been saying this for at least 7 years (and congratulating themselves for their cleverness) but after every single price shock, bitcoin has come back stronger than ever.

In contrast, the tulip mania lasted exactly ONE year (1636-1637).
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Old 30th November 2017, 01:07 AM   #911
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The concept is unsustainable and wasteful.

< ... reasonable description snipped ... >

It will burst. Any takers on predicting when?
Why would it "burst"? It is more likely that mining difficulty will plateau. This will happen when the cost of mining exceeds the value of the reward and transaction fees per block.

Alternatives to the "proof of work" which don't require escalating amounts of energy are already proving successful. (For example, ripple uses a "consensus" strategy).
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Old 30th November 2017, 08:30 AM   #912
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Why would bitcoin be better than using a credit card for an average person like myself?
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Old 30th November 2017, 12:13 PM   #913
The_Animus
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Why would bitcoin be better than using a credit card for an average person like myself?
I'm no expert, but as I understand it, in a wallet to wallet transaction you'd avoid the normal credit card transaction fee %. Or rather the business would, ideally resulting in slightly lower pricing.
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Old 30th November 2017, 12:16 PM   #914
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Why would bitcoin be better than using a credit card for an average person like myself?
Assuming you could actually pay for goods with it, your vendors would be saving the ~3% transaction fees and that would allow them to be more competitive and lower their prices for you. Plus, your savings wouldn't be perpetually devalued by the Federal Reserve.
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Old 30th November 2017, 01:36 PM   #915
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Assuming you could actually pay for goods with it, your vendors would be saving the ~3% transaction fees and that would allow them to be more competitive and lower their prices for you. Plus, your savings wouldn't be perpetually devalued by the Federal Reserve.
I get 2% rewards points, an intermediary between me and my money, and a way to build up my credit score. That is more than worth a couple percentage points.

Bitcoin's niche seems to be extremely narrow. It's volatility is extreme. It's not a good currency. It's value is over-inflated.
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Old 30th November 2017, 04:33 PM   #916
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Assuming you could actually pay for goods with it, your vendors would be saving the ~3% transaction fees and that would allow them to be more competitive and lower their prices for you. Plus, your savings wouldn't be perpetually devalued by the Federal Reserve.
Um, is this economist article correct in terms of transaction costs or are they instead thinking about mining costs?
https://www.economist.com/news/finan...tting-bitcoins
Quote:
But it is worth remembering that the cost of using bitcoin is going up. Each transaction has to be verified by “miners” who need a lot of computing power to do so, and a lot of energy: 275kWh for every transaction, according to Digiconomist, a website. In total, bitcoin uses as much electricity a year as Morocco, or enough to power 2.8m American households. All this costs much than processing credit-card transactions via Visa or MasterCard
AT $0.098/kWh, it would cost $26.95 per transaction in electricity if each transaction represents 275kWh.
Bitcoin will completely fail as a currency although I believe something will rise up in its ashes the utilizes parts of its technology.
A currency that increases in value has many problems:
It discourages us from trading in goods and services because the price of those goods and services gets better every day, slowing down the economy.
It discourages any sorting of loaning of any kind making things like buying a house impossible. Imaging having a mortgage for $250,000 house in bitcoins 5 years ago. You would owe millions and millions of dollars today.
No central body like the Federal Reserve can control its supply which is a bad thing in my opinion. There is a reason the US dollar is the most successful currency in the world.
Bitcoin=tulips. Sooner or later the music is going to stop and a lot of people aren't going to have a chair to sit down in.
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Old 30th November 2017, 04:48 PM   #917
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More on bitcoin's transaction fees:
http://mashable.com/2017/08/28/bitco.../#avUx0sYb3kqD
Quote:
Four dollars. That's how much it'd cost me to send 0.01 bitcoins, or about $42, from one Bitcoin address to another right now.

And this is actually quite cheap compared to a few days ago, when transaction fees were even higher, making Bitcoin barely usable for microtransactions. And cheap transactions, especially for small amounts of BTC, are supposedly one of Bitcoin's biggest advantages.
and
Quote:
The average #Bitcoin transaction fee nears $7!
Wow, $7 transaction fees and consuming enough electricity to run a whole country.

Also this:
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...climate-change
That would be $21.07 per bitcoin transaction when bitcoin was @ $7000!
Quote:
his averages out to a shocking 215 kilowatt-hours (KWh) of juice used by miners for each Bitcoin transaction (there are currently about 300,000 transactions per day). Since the average American household consumes 901 KWh per month, each Bitcoin transfer represents enough energy to run a comfortable house, and everything in it, for nearly a week. On a larger scale, De Vries' index shows that bitcoin miners worldwide could be using enough electricity to at any given time to power about 2.26 million American homes.

Expressing Bitcoin's energy use on a per-transaction basis is a useful abstraction. Bitcoin uses x energy in total, and this energy verifies/secures roughly 300k transactions per day. So this measure shows the value we get for all that electricity, since the verified transaction (and our confidence in it) is ultimately the end product.
Quote:
It's worth asking ourselves hard questions about Bitcoin's environmental footprint
Um, this isn't going to work.
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Old 30th November 2017, 05:30 PM   #918
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
More on bitcoin's transaction fees:
http://mashable.com/2017/08/28/bitco.../#avUx0sYb3kqD

and

Wow, $7 transaction fees and consuming enough electricity to run a whole country.

Also this:
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...climate-change
That would be $21.07 per bitcoin transaction when bitcoin was @ $7000!


Um, this isn't going to work.
I dunno, bitcoin has an inherent value as you have demonstrated in your post.
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Old 30th November 2017, 06:54 PM   #919
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Why would bitcoin be better than using a credit card for an average person like myself?
With a credit card you are borrowing money. That is never better than using your own.

Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Assuming you could actually pay for goods with it, your vendors would be saving the ~3% transaction fees and that would allow them to be more competitive and lower their prices for you. Plus, your savings wouldn't be perpetually devalued by the Federal Reserve.
You forget that to get a miner to confirm your transaction you need to offer them a transaction fee (the smaller the fee, the few miners that are willing to confirm your transaction). As the reward per block decreases and the cost of mining increases, you will need to offer ever larger transaction fees to attract a miner.

Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
Bitcoin=tulips. Sooner or later the music is going to stop and a lot of people aren't going to have a chair to sit down in.
GOTO 910.
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Old 30th November 2017, 09:19 PM   #920
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
With bitcoin having hit $10,000, and with people cashing out thousands of real $$ every day on various markets, I think it's about time for several people from this thread to eat some crow.



http://preev.com/

https://localbitcoins.com
I think the phenomenon is that speculators and true believers are hoarding bitcoins, buying them up at every opportunity and creating scarcity. There is a limited supply of bitcoins so that those which are being held for the long term are effectively out of circulation. Those in circulation are scarce. If too many try to cash out at once, the price would come crashing down again.
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