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Old 25th August 2017, 08:54 AM   #201
Gilbert Syndrome
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Thank you for so effectively proving my point.
You blatantly avoided addressing everything else that I typed, and cherry-picked a couple of select sentences, lol.

I'm not sure if you have any idea about me or my people, when you harp on about privileges. You're likely some middle-class guy from suburban America, telling me, a kid who grew up in Toxteth, about privilege.
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Old 25th August 2017, 08:56 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I'm giving my opinion on these acts of violence, which I think is stupid, and not necessary.

A position born of privilege. People who are being routinely oppressed and murdered don't have the same privilege. They need some way to defend themselves from institutionalized violence, since people like you won't.

Quote:
Being that my job is in security, you can use your own common-sense to determine where my priorities lie, and it isn't on the left or the right.

Nope, as I pointed out, you've clearly stated your priority is in supporting the status quo, regardless of what that is. Enjoy your comfort zone while it lasts.
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Old 25th August 2017, 08:56 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
I wondered how long it would take before someone trotted out this well-worn and intellectually and morally dishonest trope. Congratulations.
How is it dishonest? It's true. Pointless, sure, but true.
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Old 25th August 2017, 08:56 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Fetishizing the law is the resort of those who benefit from the status quo and don't want it challenged.
There is no fetish. You are just wrong.

Originally Posted by luchog View Post
At one point in time in this country, black people sitting at the same place as white people, drinking from the same water fountains, and working the same jobs was against the law. By your argument, the Civil Rights protests were illegitimate, because they were against the law at the time. The GW Bush administration tried to make protesting at all illegal, and partially succeeded, so by your argument, those peaceful protests should not have happened, because they were illegal.
OK. Please cite some examples of Civil Rights leaders punching protesters in the face under masks to hide their identity. And show how that is what increased this movement to the point it was able to make changes to the system. Feel free to actually match your opinion with your examples and we can examine differences and how effective they are.

Originally Posted by luchog View Post
This country has long held that force used in self-defense is legitimate; and right now many people are fighting for their lives against a movement that is openly terrorizing them, against a government whose institutions are openly oppressing and terrorizing them, against a police force that is openly murdering them with near-impunity.
Hyperbole does not give your argument any more weight.


Originally Posted by luchog View Post
This is a fight for self-defense, but those who support the status quo won't recognize that, because it offends their sense of complacency.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."



Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Nope, we have all of history to demonstrate that it does, in fact, deter their behaviour. The problem right now, is that they have open approval from the highest office in the land, and they are using that approval to justify their openly terrorizing minorities. Attacking them is not encouraging them, it is defending against them. In the US alone we have the evidence of the Civil Rights era to say that you're wrong. More recently, we have the ani-nazi Punk movement to say that you're wrong.

"The opposition is just as bad" is just more fascist propaganda intended to delegitimize their opponents and cast themselves as the victims. And you're buying into and regurgitating that propaganda.
Again, you point to a war as a equal comparison to people punching protesters in the face. Honestly, until you can at least see your point of view in a logical and realistic fashion, you aren't going to get it.
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Old 25th August 2017, 08:57 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
I wondered how long it would take before someone trotted out this well-worn and intellectually and morally dishonest trope. Congratulations.
Reality is a bitch.
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Old 25th August 2017, 08:57 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
How are you enjoying UKIP over there?
Are you implying that I'm in support of UKIP? Once again, you talk utter drivel and ignore everything I type to instead make weirdly ignorant and baseless remarks on matters that you have no understanding of.
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Old 25th August 2017, 08:58 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Nope, we have all of history to demonstrate that it does, in fact, deter their behaviour.
Just so we're clear, here: are you saying that it's not only ok but imperative that we go out and punch the morally reprehensible?
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Old 25th August 2017, 08:59 AM   #208
Gilbert Syndrome
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
A position born of privilege. People who are being routinely oppressed and murdered don't have the same privilege. They need some way to defend themselves from institutionalized violence, since people like you won't.
The irony of a suburban American from a middle-class family telling a Scouser about privilege is nothing short of hilarious and inept, lol.




Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Nope, as I pointed out, you've clearly stated your priority is in supporting the status quo, regardless of what that is. Enjoy your comfort zone while it lasts.
No, as you ignorantly and wrongly speculated based on cherry-picking and flat-out assumption, more like.

My priority is in making a good life for my family. You have no clue about anything that you're babbling about, and it shows.
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:07 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
The irony of a suburban American from a middle-class family telling a Scouser about privilege is nothing short of hilarious and inept, lol.
You're running up against the neo-bigotry of the SJW fascists. If you're white, no matter what, you're always privileged ( which is better understood to mean sinful and/or evil ) and are a target for harassment and ridicule. Being male means you're even more "privileged". It's hilarious to see these people express their delusions that they're the good guys fighting for freedom.
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:07 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Luckily, I don't associate with anyone who holds any IS rhetoric or fascist rhetoric. I live in one of the most multi-cultured cities in the UK, and probably in Europe. We have some of the oldest, if not the oldest, Caribbean, Chinese and Indian populations in Europe. I work with people from all walks of life, and don't tend to see much racism in my day-to-day activities.
Is the same true, do you think, for members of those Caribbean, Chinese and Indian minorities?

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I agree, if a march for the weird ideals of IS were to take place, people should show their displeasure, which is why I find it ironic that you never really see any AntiFa or counter-protesters at Speakers Corner when the Choudrey's of the world take a moment to spew bile.
You think it's weird that Antifa doesn't show up to protest people who aren't fascists?

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Unfortunately, it's my job to control such marches, not take part in them.
It's my job as well. Well, it was.

I'm still human, though.


Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
What "privilege" would that be, then? So you're out on the streets marching, then? You're on here a lot, and you're presumably marching a lot, so do you have a girlfriend, or a wife? How about a job?
White privilege. You don't face racism in your day to day life.

ETA: And don't personalize.
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Last edited by uke2se; 25th August 2017 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:16 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
You think it's weird that Antifa doesn't show up to protest Islamofascists??
Fixed it for you.
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:17 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Is the same true, do you think, for members of those Caribbean, Chinese and Indian minorities?
Yes, because we respect, appreciate and celebrate their culture, hence why we still have these old communities and why we have historic districts in which they live, that are visited by tourists from around the globe on a daily basis. Are you assuming ill treatment for ethnic communities now?



Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
You think it's weird that Antifa doesn't show up to protest people who aren't fascists?
I'm saying that it's funny that they're only opposed to fascism and ignorance when the culprits are white.



Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
It's my job as well. Well, it was.

I'm still human, though.
So, you quit your job because of it? Don't expect me to do the same, that's just silly.




Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
White privilege. You don't face racism in your day to day life.
Are you kidding? I've been racially abused many times, and I've been given plenty of abuse for being Scouse. My family came to England as "Irish dogs," and weren't given a pot to piss into. If you recall, "my people" were scorned by many, when lies were made up about us robbing the dead, and urinating on police officers, and effectively causing a crush that killed 96 of us. You know when that was thrown out? How long did that continue before being rubbished? Give your white privilege nonsense a rest.
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Last edited by Gilbert Syndrome; 25th August 2017 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:24 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Yes, because we respect, appreciate and celebrate their culture, hence why we still have these old communities and why we have historic districts in which they live, that are visited by tourists from around the globe on a daily basis. Are you assuming ill treatment for ethnic communities now?
You respect, appreciate and celebrate their culture. Is the same true for all your neighbors? No EDL members in Liverpool?

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I'm saying that it's funny that they're only opposed to fascism and ignorance when the culprits are white.
Why do you think it's funny that they are fighting against a menace that has led to the deaths of tens of millions of people?


Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
So, you quit your job because of it? Don't expect me to do the same, that's just silly.
No, I didn't. I moved to another location and got different tasks. A LEO can do many different things as you know. And no, it wasn't because I had to protect Nazi marches. It was due to personal life decisions.

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Are you kidding? I've been racially abused many times, and I've been given plenty of abuse for being Scouse. My family came to England as "Irish dogs," and weren't given a pot to piss into.
You yourself said you didn't see racism in your day to day life. Do you now want to take that back?

And do you think that because you could bear being called "Irish dog", other people should just suck it up too when a group of marchers call for their removal from society?
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:27 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
How about an overweight white woman with a southern drawl starring in a film as Micheal Jackson?
You guys really don't go to the theater much, do you?

One of the best actors in our local area is a middle aged tall black man and I have seen him play an enormously wide range of roles. The only time I thought about his race was when he played the driver in Driving Ms. Daisy.

Another company we see a lot is largely composed of kids. They often play not-kids. Sometimes not-kids of different races and different sexes. This is not uncommon at all. This has never been uncommon in theater productions.

What an irrelevant non-sequitur.
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:28 AM   #215
Gilbert Syndrome
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
You respect, appreciate and celebrate their culture. Is the same true for all your neighbors? No EDL members in Liverpool?
If there is, then they keep themselves quiet, because it's rare to see any EDL activity in this city, save for the occasional march. They obviously exist everywhere, but Liverpool is an openly multi-cultured city.



Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Why do you think it's funny that they are fighting against a menace that has led to the deaths of tens of millions of people?
Did I? I seem to recall saying that it was funny that the only people they targeted where white people, as though racism, fascism and ignorance are only exclusive to white people, which is of course nonsense.


Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
No, I didn't. I moved to another location and got different tasks. A LEO can do many different things as you know. And no, it wasn't because I had to protect Nazi marches. It was due to personal life decisions.
Nice little underhanded suggestion that I'm "protecting Nazi marches," lol. My job is to simply control crowds and provide basic security for all, not for a select few. Nice try, though.


Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
You yourself said you didn't see racism in your day to day life. Do you now want to take that back?

And do you think that because you could bear being called "Irish dog", other people should just suck it up too when a group of marchers call for their removal from society?
I said I didn't see racism in my city, I didn't mention where I'd been racially abused, so again, nice try, there. I work all over the UK. Do try harder.
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:32 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
And do you think that because you could bear being called "Irish dog", other people should just suck it up too when a group of marchers call for their removal from society?
You've apparently plucked this suggestive piece of nonsense from in between your butt cheeks, sir.

I've never mentioned anything about me bearing being abused, or about anyone else having to suck anything up.

You seem to be rather fond of trolling, it's a wonder you actually have any time to march.
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:33 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
If there is, then they keep themselves quiet, because it's rare to see any EDL activity in this city, save for the occasional march. They obviously exist everywhere, but Liverpool is an openly multi-cultured city.
It's also not hard to find examples of racism in Liverpool. I'm happy for you that you don't see it, but it's there.

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Did I? I seem to recall saying that it was funny that the only people they targeted where white people, as though racism, fascism and ignorance are only exclusive to white people, which is of course nonsense.
Fascists tend to be white. The person you referenced is an Islamist. Fascism and Islamism are two different things, however much you want to say they're not.

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Nice little underhanded suggestion that I'm "protecting Nazi marches," lol.
That was not my intention, and I don't find it wrong when LEOs do their job.

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
My job is to simply control crowds and provide basic security for all, not for a select few. Nice try, though.
Again, not my intention. If you took it that way, I apologize.

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I said I didn't see racism in my city, I didn't mention where I'd been racially abused, so again, nice try, there. I work all over the UK. Do try harder.
I was just telling you what you said in the post before. I took it to mean you didn't face much racism. Are you now saying that you don't face much racism in Liverpool, but that you do face much racism elsewhere? Are you ok with that? Do you feel like everyone else should be ok with that?
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:35 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
You've apparently plucked this suggestive piece of nonsense from in between your butt cheeks, sir.

I've never mentioned anything about me bearing being abused, or about anyone else having to suck anything up.

You seem to be rather fond of trolling, it's a wonder you actually have any time to march.
So you didn't say this?

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Are you kidding? I've been racially abused many times, and I've been given plenty of abuse for being Scouse.
Are you saying that you didn't bear the abuse?

ETA: I you find it emotionally troubling to discuss this with me, feel free to ignore my posts. I'm going to ask you a last time to drop the personal ****. If you don't, I will start reporting you.
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Last edited by uke2se; 25th August 2017 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:41 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
It's also not hard to find examples of racism in Liverpool. I'm happy for you that you don't see it, but it's there.
It's not hard to find examples of racism anywhere in the world, mate. I don't know what this has to do with anything. I personally do not see racism as being a massive problem in Liverpool, and I don't think many people do. If you can provide me with some examples, I'll be happy to look at them. I work in many mixed communities, and I see black, white, and Asian people all getting along for the most part.



Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Fascists tend to be white. The person you referenced is an Islamist. Fascism and Islamism are two different things, however much you want to say they're not.
You act like the ideals of hate-preachers are severely different to that of white fascists. Which is convenient in that it means those justice-warriors don't have to bother with anything which may get them labelled as "racist," lol.



Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
That was not my intention, and I don't find it wrong when LEOs do their job.
A job is a job, regardless of who you're working around. I wouldn't favour a white man over a black man. I'd favour any vulnerable person over someone who wasn't vulnerable. My job isn't to see colour.




Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I was just telling you what you said in the post before. I took it to mean you didn't face much racism. Are you now saying that you don't face much racism in Liverpool, but that you do face much racism elsewhere? Are you ok with that? Do you feel like everyone else should be ok with that?
I said I didn't see much racism in Liverpool, I can't explain that in any more detail than I already have done. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist here, because it exists everywhere, but we simply do not see it on the levels that other places do, like, say, Birmingham, Oldham, etc. I've been racially abused in various places across the UK, but not in Liverpool. I can't make that any clearer than it already is.
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:44 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
It's not hard to find examples of racism anywhere in the world, mate. I don't know what this has to do with anything. I personally do not see racism as being a massive problem in Liverpool, and I don't think many people do. If you can provide me with some examples, I'll be happy to look at them. I work in many mixed communities, and I see black, white, and Asian people all getting along for the most part.
Ok. How many do you want? How would you like them reported. Any particular news organizations I should avoid? I'm asking to avoid goal posts movement in the future.

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
You act like the ideals of hate-preachers are severely different to that of white fascists. Which is convenient in that it means those justice-warriors don't have to bother with anything which may get them labelled as "racist," lol.
It is severely different. It's evil, but it's different. Not everything evil is fascist.

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
A job is a job, regardless of who you're working around. I wouldn't favour a white man over a black man. I'd favour any vulnerable person over someone who wasn't vulnerable. My job isn't to see colour.
Agreed.

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I said I didn't see much racism in Liverpool, I can't explain that in any more detail than I already have done. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist here, because it exists everywhere, but we simply do not see it on the levels that other places do, like, say, Birmingham, Oldham, etc. I've been racially abused in various places across the UK, but not in Liverpool. I can't make that any clearer than it already is.
And I understand that you don't see it. That's why I'm saying that you're privileged. I'm not saying that to be mean. I'm simply stating a fact. I'm similarly privileged. Ask the Sri-Lankan guy running the corner shop if he faces racism in his day to day life.
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:46 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
So you didn't say this?



Are you saying that you didn't bear the abuse?

ETA: I you find it emotionally troubling to discuss this with me, feel free to ignore my posts. I'm going to ask you a last time to drop the personal ****. If you don't, I will start reporting you.
You surely must know, after having quoted my post, that I didn't mention anything about bearing it or being offended by it. I said I'd been racially abused before, and that was it. Everything else is pure speculation and drivel on your part.

I basically told you I had a sandwich, and you're telling me what I thought about the sandwich, despite me not mentioning anything about it other than that I had a sandwich, lol.

You tell me to drop the personal stuff, and yet you underhandedly and weakly presume things about me that I haven't said, nor hinted at. Do yourself a favour and stop being silly. You're the most obvious person at failing with underhanded insults.
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:48 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
You surely must know, after having quoted my post, that I didn't mention anything about bearing it or being offended by it. I said I'd been racially abused before, and that was it. Everything else is pure speculation and drivel on your part.

I basically told you I had a sandwich, and you're telling me what I thought about the sandwich, despite me not mentioning anything about it other than that I had a sandwich, lol.

You tell me to drop the personal stuff, and yet you underhandedly and weakly presume things about me that I haven't said, nor hinted at. Do yourself a favour and stop being silly. You're the most obvious person at failing with underhanded insults.
The difference between you and I is that when you tell me I have insulted you, I immediately apologize, even though I never intended to insult you. Here I am doing it again. I do that because I don't want to be a dick or act like a troll. I want to discuss this honestly.

The reason for why we are talking about your personal experiences with racism is because we are talking about people doing something about those experiences. I thought by saying that you had been racially abused, you were saying that you could bear it, so why can't everyone else? If you weren't saying that, what were you saying?
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:53 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Ok. How many do you want? How would you like them reported. Any particular news organizations I should avoid? I'm asking to avoid goal posts movement in the future.
Ignoring (which you've obviously done) the fact that I said racism obviously exists everywhere, I'll play your silly game. Go on, then, examples. You mention goal-post-moving, in the middle of a post which is pedantically trying to challenge the fictitious notion that I think racism doesn't exist in my city. You really are being odd.



Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
It is severely different. It's evil, but it's different. Not everything evil is fascist.
It's not an issue for the guys in the AntiFa, though, is it? That's the point, they don't concern themselves with anyone besides white people.



Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
And I understand that you don't see it. That's why I'm saying that you're privileged. I'm not saying that to be mean. I'm simply stating a fact. I'm similarly privileged. Ask the Sri-Lankan guy running the corner shop if he faces racism in his day to day life.
I'm privileged, despite having grown up in one of the poorest and most under-funded areas in the UK, gotcha! lol. I've been attacked for being from Liverpool, mate, ask a guy from Calgary, Alberta if he has that problem.

I've had more than my fair share of prejudice, and no amount of pandering will change that.

There's a guy down my street from an Indian heritage, and he'd tell you that he's not had a single thing said to him since he was about 10 years old, he's 36 now. You're basically making up notions that every person of race is living in danger and prejudice every waking moment of their life, which is pure drivel.
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:57 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
The difference between you and I is that when you tell me I have insulted you, I immediately apologize, even though I never intended to insult you. Here I am doing it again. I do that because I don't want to be a dick or act like a troll. I want to discuss this honestly.

The reason for why we are talking about your personal experiences with racism is because we are talking about people doing something about those experiences. I thought by saying that you had been racially abused, you were saying that you could bear it, so why can't everyone else? If you weren't saying that, what were you saying?
The difference between us is that I don't underhandedly insult you or attempt to misinterpret your words. You literally make up entire sentences about me based on absolutely nothing.

You asked if I'd been racially abused, I said yes. I said I do not see much racism in my city, you then tried to make out that I was lying about having been racially abused, despite knowing that I'd not once told you where I'd been abused.

You also made up a claim about me thinking that because I "bared" the insult, that "others should suck it up," this was of course 100% fiction on your part, based on nothing. Don't act like I was born yesterday, mate, lol.
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Old 25th August 2017, 09:59 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Ignoring (which you've obviously done) the fact that I said racism obviously exists everywhere, I'll play your silly game. Go on, then, examples. You mention goal-post-moving, in the middle of a post which is pedantically trying to challenge the fictitious notion that I think racism doesn't exist in my city. You really are being odd.
I'm simply being skeptical of your motives. What I am challenging is your notion that the minority communities in Liverpool have the same experience when it comes to facing racism in their day to day life as you do.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/03/09/racist...rty-p-6498606/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bl...d-1152284.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/conte..._feature.shtml

https://christopherengland.com/2012/...n-liverpool-2/

A small mix.


Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
It's not an issue for the guys in the AntiFa, though, is it? That's the point, they don't concern themselves with anyone besides white people.
They concern themselves with fascists who mostly happen to be white.


Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I'm privileged, despite having grown up in one of the poorest and most under-funded areas in the UK, gotcha! lol. I've been attacked for being from Liverpool, mate, ask a guy from Calgary, Alberta if he has that problem.

I've had more than my fair share of prejudice, and no amount of pandering will change that.

There's a guy down my street from an Indian heritage, and he'd tell you that he's not had a single thing said to him since he was about 10 years old, he's 36 now. You're basically making up notions that every person of race is living in danger and prejudice every waking moment of their life, which is pure drivel.
Yes, you are privileged. That doesn't mean you have more privilege than any other white person. You can be the poorest white man in the world, but you're still not going to face the racism that a black man - even a rich one - faces.
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:00 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
The difference between us is that I don't underhandedly insult you or attempt to misinterpret your words. You literally make up entire sentences about me based on absolutely nothing.

You asked if I'd been racially abused, I said yes. I said I do not see much racism in my city, you then tried to make out that I was lying about having been racially abused, despite knowing that I'd not once told you where I'd been abused.

You also made up a claim about me thinking that because I "bared" the insult, that "others should suck it up," this was of course 100% fiction on your part, based on nothing. Don't act like I was born yesterday, mate, lol.
Again, I am sorry you took it this way. It was not my intention. My intention was to get you to discuss what you meant with your comment about your personal history with being racially abused. Do you think we can discuss that now?
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:21 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I'm simply being skeptical of your motives. What I am challenging is your notion that the minority communities in Liverpool have the same experience when it comes to facing racism in their day to day life as you do.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/03/09/racist...rty-p-6498606/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bl...d-1152284.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/conte..._feature.shtml

https://christopherengland.com/2012/...n-liverpool-2/

A small mix.
You clearly saw my words on the screen that said: racism obviously exists everywhere, therefore, my "motives" are something which you're entirely making up as you go along, mate.

Here's a recent example of a group of Muslims attacking white people in my city: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...white-13396646

Last year, in Sefton park, an old white man was attacked by a group of Somalian men. Are these also racist attacks? In Toxteth and Wavertree, there is a strong gang element in which many whites and blacks are killed by each other. Is this all uniquely racist?

How about this from last year, also in Sefton park, a group of Somalian men killed another Somalian man: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...victim-3470936

Crime happens everywhere, but to make out like Liverpool is a uniquely racist city is nonsensical: https://m.facebook.com/Stand-Up-To-R...3386661371017/

This went tits-up! http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...icted-12438439

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015...n_7992084.html

If you knew a thing about this city, you'd know that Scousers generally are against racism and have been fighting it alongside ethnic communities for decades.






Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
They concern themselves with fascists who mostly happen to be white.





Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Yes, you are privileged. That doesn't mean you have more privilege than any other white person. You can be the poorest white man in the world, but you're still not going to face the racism that a black man - even a rich one - faces.
Having lived the life that I know I've lived, and the struggles me and my family have had, I frankly think it's nothing short of pathetic and arrogant for you to tell me about my so-called privileges.
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:23 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Again, I am sorry you took it this way. It was not my intention. My intention was to get you to discuss what you meant with your comment about your personal history with being racially abused. Do you think we can discuss that now?
Let's be honest, you tried and failed at putting words into my mouth that I hadn't uttered.

You seem to have a weird habit of making things up out of thin air when the argument isn't going the way you'd like.
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:30 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I don't think anyone will get anywhere, regardless.

People will always differ on the things that they believe. As long as there's a bunch of people around, there'll be differences on literally every aspect of life.

It's how it's always been. The difference is that some people can learn to live together, and others can't.
Learn to live together in what way?

Sure I can learn to live together with the orange order walking through my town abusing Catholics a few times a year. But I'm not a Catholic. And quite frankly I see no reason why a Catholic should learn to live together with people who would celebrate their extinction.

There really isn't any pleasant coexisting with people who hate you for what you are. And that's not the fault of the victims of hate.
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:34 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Learn to live together in what way?

Sure I can learn to live together with the orange order walking through my town abusing Catholics a few times a year. But I'm not a Catholic. And quite frankly I see no reason why a Catholic should learn to live together with people who would celebrate their extinction.

There really isn't any pleasant coexisting with people who hate you for what you are. And that's not the fault of the victims of hate.


You nailed it with the highlighted part.

I don't know what we can do, and I don't pretend to have an answer, but we all know by now that division will always exist in humanity, whether we fight for it or against it.
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:37 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
You clearly saw my words on the screen that said: racism obviously exists everywhere, therefore, my "motives" are something which you're entirely making up as you go along, mate.

Here's a recent example of a group of Muslims attacking white people in my city: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...white-13396646

Last year, in Sefton park, an old white man was attacked by a group of Somalian men. Are these also racist attacks? In Toxteth and Wavertree, there is a strong gang element in which many whites and blacks are killed by each other. Is this all uniquely racist?

How about this from last year, also in Sefton park, a group of Somalian men killed another Somalian man: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...victim-3470936

Crime happens everywhere, but to make out like Liverpool is a uniquely racist city is nonsensical: https://m.facebook.com/Stand-Up-To-R...3386661371017/

This went tits-up! http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...icted-12438439

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015...n_7992084.html

If you knew a thing about this city, you'd know that Scousers generally are against racism and have been fighting it alongside ethnic communities for decades.
I'm not trying to make out Liverpool as uniquely racist, and I'm not trying to say anything about you or your kin. I'm making the point that the racism you face isn't the racism a person of color faces.

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Why is this hard to understand?

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Having lived the life that I know I've lived, and the struggles me and my family have had, I frankly think it's nothing short of pathetic and arrogant for you to tell me about my so-called privileges.
I'm not saying anything about your life, and it's obvious that you feel entitled to being seen as a victim in life. I'm not going to deny you that right. I'm simply saying that this perceived victim-hood is preventing you from seeing minorities' struggle with racism as important enough to stand up for.

As I said, you are part of the problem.
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:38 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
And quite frankly I see no reason why a Catholic should learn to live together with people who would celebrate their extinction.

We need to differentiate between celebrating the death of an idea (e.g. Catholicism, Protestantism, Islam) and the death of a group of people (e.g. Catholics, Protestants, Muslims).

I understand that my evangelical neighbors want secular humanism to be wholly replaced by Christianity, but I don't think they would celebrate my extinction.
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:38 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Let's be honest, you tried and failed at putting words into my mouth that I hadn't uttered.

You seem to have a weird habit of making things up out of thin air when the argument isn't going the way you'd like.
This is the last time I apologize to you. You are starting to come off as having an aggressive and affronted posture in order to avoid having to have this discussion with me. Don't do that. Instead, simply ignore my posts if you're having such trouble with them.
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:40 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
We need to differentiate between celebrating the death of an idea (e.g. Catholicism, Protestantism, Islam) and the death of a group of people (e.g. Catholics, Protestants, Muslims).

I understand that my evangelical neighbors want secular humanism to be wholly replaced by Christianity, but I don't think they would celebrate my extinction.
That's a distinction without a difference when talking about the hate we're discussing in this thread.
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:46 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Learn to live together in what way?

Sure I can learn to live together with the orange order walking through my town abusing Catholics a few times a year. But I'm not a Catholic. And quite frankly I see no reason why a Catholic should learn to live together with people who would celebrate their extinction.

There really isn't any pleasant coexisting with people who hate you for what you are. And that's not the fault of the victims of hate.
So true. And with that in mind, imagine being black in the US.
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:48 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
So true. And with that in mind, imagine being black in the US.
Why?
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:48 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I'm not trying to make out Liverpool as uniquely racist, and I'm not trying to say anything about you or your kin. I'm making the point that the racism you face isn't the racism a person of color faces.
Explain what the difference is. It took over 30 years for people from Liverpool to be cleared from the suggestions that they robbed the dead and urinated on coppers, lol.

For 30+ years we were told that we were thieves and criminals, by the Yorkshire police, the media and the public. I'm not black, I'm not Asian, but I am a white Scouser, and I've been abused by whites, blacks and Muslims. Ignorance and its effects aren't exclusive to minorities. I was told only recently by a member of this very forum that "my people" were responsible for all manner of sick and twisted things that they'd pulled out of their behind.


Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Why is this hard to understand?
It's not that I don't understand it, it's that I think it's nonsense. I'm against ignorance and prejudice, but not only when it's being committed by white people, and that's the difference between me and the AntiFa.



Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I'm not saying anything about your life, and it's obvious that you feel entitled to being seen as a victim in life. I'm not going to deny you that right. I'm simply saying that this perceived victim-hood is preventing you from seeing minorities' struggle with racism as important enough to stand up for.

As I said, you are part of the problem.
No, it's obvious that you see yourself as a privileged man of good moral compass, who thinks that anyone not devoting their time to endless marches is part of a problem. The real problem is in people making up rules that don't mean anything, and labeling other people as privileged problems. It's like you can't stand being white, lol.

Here you go again, I don't "see minorities' struggles as being important enough to stand up for..." You basically just proved to me that you don't actually read anything I type unless you perceive it as being negative in context. I have already told you some of the things I've done in my own community in the fight against prejudice and bigotry. You have opted to ignore them, as per usual, and continue with your apologist rhetoric.

You, therefore, are a big part of the problem, in that you don't see things for how they are, but merely see them for the way you think they appear, that is highly ignorant.
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Last edited by Gilbert Syndrome; 25th August 2017 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:53 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
This is the last time I apologize to you. You are starting to come off as having an aggressive and affronted posture in order to avoid having to have this discussion with me. Don't do that. Instead, simply ignore my posts if you're having such trouble with them.
You continue to misquote and misinterpret everything I say, and you expect me to be apologetic to you for calling you out on your obvious trolling?

In your last post you did it again, you told me that I claim to not think it important enough to understand the plight of minorities, when I have literally said no such thing.

When will you respond to what I actually type, as opposed to what you think I've typed?
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:53 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
So true. And with that in mind, imagine being black in the US.
Yeah, one would run the risk of becoming president!
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Old 25th August 2017, 10:55 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
It's not that I don't understand it, it's that I think it's nonsense.
You know, sometimes I get the impression that "privilege" has nothing to do with circumstances, only with gender and skin colour; all things you can't control. Gee, that idea almost sounds... racist.
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