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Tags general discussion , holocaust , holocaust denial , World War II history

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Old 10th September 2017, 06:40 AM   #1
Jeffk 1970
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General Holocaust denial discussion Part IV

Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Nope. Game over. It's getting more difficult to deal with the degenerate lies of the Zionists.

"Stanisława met Dr Mengele,[3] and was advised to euthanize the newborns she delivered. She did not comply."

Is there no absurdity you will not stoop to?

Why don't you cut the foreplay short and show your evidence of the "hoax?"

Mod InfoThis is a continuation from here due to the length of the previous thread. As always, all Holocaust-related discussion should be confined to this thread. Thank you.
Posted By:kmortis

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Old 10th September 2017, 11:24 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
>> Kubica's figure of 680 births registered, which is accurate compared to the exaggerated 3000 cited by a Catholic publication . . .

It struck me, reading Saggy's posts on this, how deferential he is to witnesses whose testimony - and exaggerations - fit his biases, even whilst arguing that all Holocaust witnesses are liars, lack credibility, etc. With his "friendly" witnesses, he accepts whatever they've said, without a moment's thought or hesitation; whereas with witnesses whose testimony undermines his claims, he dismisses everything they say, again without thought. The double standard is glaring.

Yet in both cases, he floats free of substance, making knee-jerk pronouncements and snide jokes so he can misuse elements of evidence to suit his purposes - without ever grappling with the range of evidence, what witnesses have said, when and why.

Saggy still hasn't explained his basis for calling Auschwitz scholar Kubica a liar. I asked him if he'd read her chapter in the Auschwitz history. I know, get serious, right?

For readers who care, here is the Nuremberg translation of Glucks' 27 April 1943 order, which I cited above and to which Nick Terry alludes:
I wrote above that I hadn't read this order; I found that I had . . . oops. I am sure I haven't read Kubica's other sources, on which I await Saggy's critical remarks.
Stanisława Leszczyńska arrived in Auschwitz on 17 April 1943 and I assume she left on 27 January 1945, which represents more or less 650 days. I we are going to believe what she says, 3000 childbirths represent an average of almost 5 per day. If true, Auschwitz was not a concentration and death camp, but a Lebensborn institution...
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Old 10th September 2017, 11:55 AM   #3
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Thanks for noting that detail. To spell this out for Saggy, the KL policy changed on 27 April 1943: "Early in Auschwitz’s history women discovered to be pregnant were simply put to death, either by phenol injection or as part of a group in the gas chambers (p 267). In the rare case in which a non-Jewish woman did give birth, her pregnancy having been undiscovered, both women and child were killed by SS physicians or orderlies using lethal injection. This murder was part of action 14f13; when that action was halted in early 1943, for some months pregnant prisoners and mothers were no longer murdered - rather, newborns were killed (p 268)."

Leszczyńska arrived, then, 10 days before the new policy was announced - and thus was not in Auschwitz during the phase when pregnant women were routinely murdered.

It is likely - although Saggy will have trouble grasping this - that, not having witnessed the more murderous phase, Leszczyńska did not testify about it after the war.
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Old 10th September 2017, 12:38 PM   #4
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As with the Apollo Moon Landings, the Holocaust has a consistent and verifiable narrative; there are planning documents operational records, hundreds of thousand of witnesses, tens of thousands of key people involved in the operation, architect/designer drawings and schematics, goods and equipment orders, contractors records, construction details, records of testing, and leftover equipment and buildings.

As is usual with this type of conspiracy theorist, proponents of hoaxes are quick to point up inconsistencies and cry "hoax" but they cannot come up with a consistent, internally and externally verifiable narrative explaining step by step, with details, exactly how the hoax was perpetrated.

In the case of the alleged holohoax, proponents need to..

► explain away the eye-witnesses who saw (and helped) German soldiers to hunt down Jews living in German cities.

► explain away the witnesses to Jews being loaded into boxcars by the tens of thousands.

► explain away the Deutsche Reichsbahn records of transporting these people to the death camps and other camps.

► explain away the disappearance, many without a trace, of millions of Jewish & Romani people.

► explain away the schematics, construction and use of the gas chambers, and the goods orders and delivery to the camps of over 50,000 kg of Zyklon B.

► explain away the eye-witnesses who saw the remaining decomposing corpses of tens of thousands of Jews and others that were found when the camps were liberated.

► explain away the testimony of German soldiers who admitted to what they did.

These just a few of the prominent things that are part of the true narrative of the Holocaust; all of it is self-consistent. I am sure that Holocaust scholars among us can add many more parts of this narrative to my modest list.

Deniers need to explain these things away, and replace them with a credible, documented, verifiable alternative, but they cannot. When you ask them to do so, all you get is.... crickets!

When you aske HDs to e
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Old 10th September 2017, 08:21 PM   #5
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Just to finish my last post....

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
When you ask HDs to....
...explain these things, they cannot, they refuse to address them and won't debate them... because they cannot!
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Old 11th September 2017, 03:59 AM   #6
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I like to point out to deniers that I can prove the Germans and Italians, which were interred by the British during WWII, primarily on the Isle of Man, were not gassed or shot. I do so by showing the witnesses and documents to what did take place, the lack of human remains and that that those people can be tracked returning from the island on liberation.

So, they should be able to do the same with those Jews registered and sent to the AR camps and places such as Babi Yar, Ponary and Rumbula. Since they cannot, their version did not happen.
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Old 11th September 2017, 04:06 AM   #7
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Since the one denier here has decided to ignore my questions and points, I will be ignoring him. I think he enjoys the attention and it should just stop. Instead, I like the idea of discussing tactics and evidence to use against deniers.

I like to point out to deniers that I can prove no German or Italian interred on the Isle of Man was gassed or shot. I can show witnesses and documents which prove what did take place, the lack of human remains and that those people can be tracked leaving the island and returning home.

Since deniers cannot do the same for the AR camps and people sent to places such as Babi Yar, Ponary and Rumbula, their version of mass survival did not happen.
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Old 11th September 2017, 09:01 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
As with the Apollo Moon Landings, the Holocaust has a consistent and verifiable narrative
Yeah but the narrative is a hoax so the Holocaust is a hoax too. QED. No, I don't need to check the evidence because it's part of the hoax. Duh.
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Old 11th September 2017, 09:23 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
In the case of the alleged holohoax, proponents need to..

► explain away the eye-witnesses who saw (and helped) German soldiers to hunt down Jews living in German cities.

► explain away the witnesses to Jews being loaded into boxcars by the tens of thousands.

► explain away the Deutsche Reichsbahn records of transporting these people to the death camps and other camps.

► explain away the disappearance, many without a trace, of millions of Jewish & Romani people.

► explain away the schematics, construction and use of the gas chambers, and the goods orders and delivery to the camps of over 50,000 kg of Zyklon B.

► explain away the eye-witnesses who saw the remaining decomposing corpses of tens of thousands of Jews and others that were found when the camps were liberated.

► explain away the testimony of German soldiers who admitted to what they did.
All prima facie absurd zionist lies and degenerate propaganda, Saggy knows best! HAHHAHAHAHA!

JK - seriously though, that will likely be Saggy's reply, if one is made. He really is a sad specimen.

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Old 11th September 2017, 01:15 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I like to point out to deniers that I can prove the Germans and Italians, which were interred by the British during WWII, primarily on the Isle of Man, were not gassed or shot. I do so by showing the witnesses and documents to what did take place, the lack of human remains and that that those people can be tracked returning from the island on liberation.
You do know that they will call you a Zionist shill when you do that, right?
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:09 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by tinribmancer View Post
You do know that they will call you a Zionist shill when you do that, right?
Hasn't Saggy already called us all Zionist shills, or degenerate Haribos or something?

It's much easier than actually dealing with the evidence.
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Old 12th September 2017, 12:08 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by tinribmancer View Post
You do know that they will call you a Zionist shill when you do that, right?
I have been called much worse than that. I am presently suspended from the RODOH forum because I had had enough and warned a denier called Charles Traynor, that if I found out exactly who he was, I would look to take him to court for libel. He was repeatedly accusing me of supporting paedophiles. At least they suspended CT as well.
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Old 12th September 2017, 12:32 PM   #13
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Since Saggy has marched off to attack Russia. I have a question, how many people today make their living making, writing or selling denier material?
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Old 12th September 2017, 12:53 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Since Saggy has marched off to attack Russia. I have a question, how many people today make their living making, writing or selling denier material?
If you mean, earning enough to make a living exclusively from Holocaust denial, it could be as low as one person (Germar Rudolf, Castle Hill publisher and head of CODOH).

Everyone else could claim a pension or doesn't seem to earn enough to do it full-time.
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Old 12th September 2017, 12:58 PM   #15
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Rudolph is head of CODOH! I take it the forum is not much to do with him, like this place was not much to do with James Randi.
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Old 13th September 2017, 04:58 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Hasn't Saggy already called us all Zionist shills, or degenerate Haribos or something?


I love degenerate Haribos.
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Old 13th September 2017, 07:58 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Dash80 View Post
Haribos are only degenerate when the kids let them dissolve into the upholstery.
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Old 13th September 2017, 07:04 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Haribos are only degenerate when the kids let them dissolve into the upholstery.
An absurd Zionist lie! Give me just one single credible witness to your kids dissolving Haribos.
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Old 14th September 2017, 10:26 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Hasn't Saggy already called us all Zionist shills, or degenerate Haribos or something?

It's much easier than actually dealing with the evidence.
That's because I can't call you what I'd like to call you?
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Old 14th September 2017, 10:30 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Thanks for noting that detail. To spell this out for Saggy, the KL policy changed on 27 April 1943: "
This is an example of a preposterous (no need to list the reasons) prima facie absurd degenerate lie that the hoaxers can't produce at the drop of an inconvenient fact. It's like you need a Kuwait incubator hoax? No problem, they have an endless supply. That is the holohoax.
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Old 14th September 2017, 10:33 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
This is an example of a preposterous (no need to list the reasons) prima facie absurd degenerate lie that the hoaxers can't produce at the drop of an inconvenient fact. It's like you need a Kuwait incubator hoax? No problem, they have an endless supply. That is the holohoax.
Is there any lie that isn't degenerate? What's degenerate about it?
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Old 14th September 2017, 11:37 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
This is an example of a preposterous (no need to list the reasons) prima facie absurd degenerate lie that the hoaxers can't produce at the drop of an inconvenient fact. It's like you need a Kuwait incubator hoax? No problem, they have an endless supply. That is the holohoax.
You make it too easy, Saggy.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/12-20-45.asp

Also, IMT, Blue Series, vol XXIX:




How are you coming with Krzepicki and Rabinowicz?
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Old 14th September 2017, 12:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
This is an example of a preposterous (no need to list the reasons) prima facie absurd degenerate lie that the hoaxers can't produce at the drop of an inconvenient fact. It's like you need a Kuwait incubator hoax? No problem, they have an endless supply. That is the holohoax.
We would all be greatly appreciative if you would engage in factual discussion rather than endless low information spamming of buzzwords.
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Old 14th September 2017, 12:16 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post

How are you coming with Krzepicki and Rabinowicz?
Don't forget Glazar and Pfannenstiel!
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Old 14th September 2017, 12:27 PM   #25
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I wanted finally to start somewhere . . . LOL
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Old 14th September 2017, 02:01 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by LeoMajor View Post
We would all be greatly appreciative if you would engage in factual discussion rather than endless low information spamming of buzzwords.
Just Saggy's sophistic method for putting across more ad hominem attacks - relying on adjectives coupled with a refusal to engage in the substance of what we post. The reader is meant to be left with the feeling, in this case, that I'm a preposterous, degenerate liar - whilst Saggy gets himself off the hook without addressing a single supposedly absurd lie ("no need to list the reasons" - in fact, an actual debate/discussion depends on "listing the reasons" and paying attention to the evidence).
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Old 14th September 2017, 04:48 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Just Saggy's sophistic method for putting across more ad hominem attacks - relying on adjectives coupled with a refusal to engage in the substance of what we post. The reader is meant to be left with the feeling, in this case, that I'm a preposterous, degenerate liar - whilst Saggy gets himself off the hook without addressing a single supposedly absurd lie ("no need to list the reasons" - in fact, an actual debate/discussion depends on "listing the reasons" and paying attention to the evidence).
Sounds like pigeon chess to me, with you as the chess player!!
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Old 15th September 2017, 03:09 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
This is an example of a preposterous (no need to list the reasons) prima facie absurd degenerate lie that the hoaxers can't produce at the drop of an inconvenient fact. It's like you need a Kuwait incubator hoax? No problem, they have an endless supply. That is the holohoax.
Saggy, since a new chapter of this discussion has started, can I repeat my request. You have posted many witnesses to the murder of Jews, Gays, Socialists, the handicapped, the Roma etc. that the National Socialist Government of Germany from 1933 to 1945 took action against. I would say they tried to exterminate them as they saw them as Untermensch but I understand you have a different viewpoint. People who know more about this than I do have challenged the witnesses you have brought forward either for their veracity or for your interpretation of the value of their evidence. The point is, the witnesses have been produced and their value can be judged. So could I ask you please, name your witnesses for the survival of millions of Jews, hundreds of thousands of Roma and thousands of political opponents and handicapped and gay people who disappeared between the years 1933 and 1945 but who you and your fellows assert were merely moved on and survived. One witness whose value everyone can evaluate. Your expressions of incredulity prove nothing except your own lack of ability in researching History. I believe I can say that as a university graduate in History and the Social Sciences. Try providing some evidence and you may further your case somewhat. Given your previous behaviour I don't expect a response to this, reasonable or otherwise, but it behoves those of us who are genuinely interested in real history to behave better than you and try to allow you to show that your take on events has some reason. I am not holding my breath though.
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:29 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
One witness whose value everyone can evaluate.
There are, of course, cases of resettlement or expulsion of large groups of people from a country or region (in this context, failed efforts like the Nazis' Nisko project come to mind - but there are others, for example, within the USSR during this period). Should Saggy finally respond (!) to your query, I will be asking him about the range of evidence, using these other, known cases as models, for what he claims.

Of all the questions and challenges Saggy has dodged, I agree with your pushing this one to the front of the queue. Second IMO is his unwillingness to respond to examples of witnesses we've given him to "test" his claim that no witnesses to the genocide have any credibility.
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:40 PM   #30
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Let's have a look at the industry's latest promoted degenerate liar ... Edith Eger ...

Being sent to a concentration camp at 16 taught Edith Eger ‘to find joy within’



You can read the list of idiocies in the article, but they left out one of the best, recall Venezia helping his mother into the gas chamber, Bomba giving a haircut to his mother just before she was to be gassed, Weisel's story about a Jew killing his father for a scrap of bread, well, what idiotic degenerate lie does Edith have to compete with that? Let's see ...

I condemned my mother to the gas chamber with one wrong word to Dr Death':
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:58 PM   #31
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To be a little less cryptic - sorry - a single witness is not enough, to answer questions about supposed relocation of the Jews, just as a single witness is not enough for robust answers to any of the questions we raise here - here is what I had in mind in mentioning the range of evidence which should exist were a resettlement of the Jews carried out by the Nazis during 1942-1944.

Looking at actual, historical population relocations - ones that occurred during WWII, during the period we are interested in - we have planning and execution documents; business and bureaucracy transaction records; testimonies from authorities, those moved and observers; population studies; inventories; news reports; health reports; registration and census counts; etc. that enable us to answer basic questions about most of the following aspects of such operations:

* Planning and participants, feasibility studies
* Communication plan and distribution, briefings, bureaucratic participation
* Identification of groups to be moved
* Where relocated groups were to be moved from, numbers involved
* Deliberations, preparations relative to relocation places/sites, transactions as to land etc
* Reception preparations and processes including housing and infrastructure
* Disposition of property of relocated people, luggage permitted/taken with them
* Authorities in charge of relocation, transports, and reception
* What happened at the deportation locations
* Actual dates of relocation operations, arrival dates
* Conditions of journey
* Routes of transports and mode/means of transportation; arrangement for transport
* Registration of newcomers, census data, demographic composition, language issues, etc
* Authorities in charge of relocation site
* Conditions in new location on arrival
* Living arrangements – rentals, purchases, construction, furnishing
* Food and other basic supplies – on arrival, longer term
* Coordination with local authorities, implication for local government (citizenship etc)
* Economic factors – skills of relocated population, jobs and income in new home, etc
* Communication (postal etc) of relocated population to relatives, friends, etc
* News stories and public notice of relocation
* Problem solving and management of relocation process by authorities in charge
* Reactions of local authorities/agencies and population to newcomers
* Long term description of new settlements – where these people ended up in the long run

Any account of the supposed resettlement of the Jews proposed by deniers will need to be at least as comprehensive and will need to cite a range of evidence.

(The above list was drawn from reading I've done about the Nisko reservation action carried out by Nazi authorities in 1939-1940; the large-scale Soviet deportations of "disloyal" population groups to Siberia during 1941 prior to Barbarossa; and movement of Soviet citizens - mostly Jews - into the Caucasus from Ukraine and the Crimea but also from as far away as Moscow.)
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Old 15th September 2017, 06:12 PM   #32
LemmyCaution
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Let's have a look at the industry's latest promoted degenerate liar ... Edith Eger ...
Popular newspapers, least of all the Daily Mail, are not scholarly sources. Ms Eger's recollections are not used a single time, for example, in the Auschwitz 5 volume history. Nor in any other study of Auschwitz I've read. So if you wish you can subtract her testimony from all the scholarly studies (and sources) I've read and which are the basis for my conclusions - without changing any of this one jot.

The same is true for every one of these recent recollections you post about.

But why do you keep posting about recollections no one else has used to support the case for the mass murder of the Jews - and refusing to comment on the witnesses we have named as pertinent?
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Old 15th September 2017, 09:36 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Just Saggy's sophistic method for putting across more ad hominem attacks - relying on adjectives coupled with a refusal to engage in the substance of what we post. The reader is meant to be left with the feeling, in this case, that I'm a preposterous, degenerate liar - whilst Saggy gets himself off the hook without addressing a single supposedly absurd lie ("no need to list the reasons" - in fact, an actual debate/discussion depends on "listing the reasons" and paying attention to the evidence).
One gets the impression that he dosen't even read replies at this point.
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Old 16th September 2017, 01:17 AM   #34
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The resident denialist loves his CT's, here is his latest, about "the massive secret government running the US".

Denialism has been reduced to a runt litter of CT lovers along with a few Nazi apologists and anti-Semites who can only post their filth on a very few forums.
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Old 16th September 2017, 04:51 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by LeoMajor View Post
One gets the impression that he dosen't even read replies at this point.
He treats this debate and discussion forum as a personal vehicle for anti-Semitic, pro-HD, and pro-National Socialist propagandizing.
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Old 16th September 2017, 02:04 PM   #36
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In part III of this saga, Saggy wouldn't accept or comment on archaeological evidence for mass burials (of gassing victims) at Chelmno.

Here, in part IV of his series on Nazi mass murder in the Warthegau, Hans Metzner details the documentary evidence for body disposal in the Chelmno action.
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Old 17th September 2017, 02:41 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Let's have a look at the industry's latest promoted degenerate liar ... Edith Eger ...

Being sent to a concentration camp at 16 taught Edith Eger ‘to find joy within’

https://i.imgur.com/A8051MD.jpg

You can read the list of idiocies in the article, but they left out one of the best, recall Venezia helping his mother into the gas chamber, Bomba giving a haircut to his mother just before she was to be gassed, Weisel's story about a Jew killing his father for a scrap of bread, well, what idiotic degenerate lie does Edith have to compete with that? Let's see ...

I condemned my mother to the gas chamber with one wrong word to Dr Death':

Entire families and communities were wiped out by the Nazis, Saggy. What you are blathering about being "degenerate lies" is actually a common experience. Plenty of survivors were the only ones from whole families or communities to remain alive.

What research have you done to establish this lady is a liar? Have you researched if she was actually registered as a prisoner at Auschwitz? What transport she arrived on? If her mother was registered? If it's such a lie that she was not registered but selected to go to the gas chambers, surely you'll be able to find evidence won't you, Saggy?
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Old 17th September 2017, 08:03 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
In part III of this saga, Saggy wouldn't accept or comment on archaeological evidence for mass burials (of gassing victims) at Chelmno.

Here, in part IV of his series on Nazi mass murder in the Warthegau, Hans Metzner details the documentary evidence for body disposal in the Chelmno action.
Summarize the evidence LC, so I can get an idea of whether or not the link is worth following.

Or, is the 'evidence' so pathetic that it isn't worth summarizing?
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Old 17th September 2017, 08:51 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Summarize the evidence LC, so I can get an idea of whether or not the link is worth following.

Or, is the 'evidence' so pathetic that it isn't worth summarizing?
I can't help you if you can't read.

The discussion relies on a number of German documents, each of which it summarizes, concerning the disposal methods, transactions, and labor involved in dealing with the corpses of those gassed in the Chelmno action. Hans covers location of the graves, the dimensions of the pits, the use of chlorinated lime to treat the buried corpses, the number of corpses involved in first part of 1942, the problem of corpse decomposition and odor, orders for and transportation of the chlorinated lime, open-air incineration of the corpses starting in July 1942 and the construction and use of unique furnaces, the SS involved in the incineration including Blobel, fuel for incineration, Aktion 1005 and linkages with Auschwitz, bone crushing and equipment for bone crushing of remains of corpses after incineration, and disposal of the final ashes produced by the incineration/crushing process. All this is, as I noted, supported by German documents.

Since I read your links and don't rely on you to summarize them when you choose not to, I must tell you I find your request and childish behavior annoying.

Reading the piece will take you 15-20 minutes, not much of a burden for someone who claims this evidence doesn't exist. If you choose not to read Hans' piece and the accompanying documents, you will safeguard your ignorance of all this.
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Old 17th September 2017, 09:24 AM   #40
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OK, I clicked on the link, and I'm glad I did, I always like to keep up with Paul Blobel, one of the major figures in the hoax, and probably the most absurd .... so let's see what he was up to in this episode ....

"In the second half of July 1942, the "SS Sonderkommando Blobel" obtained a portable flame thrower unit from the SS-Cavalry at the Waffen-SS training camp Heidelager/Debica (Document 55⤻), and probably thermite grenades as well. While Sonderkommando Kulmhof had already started the incineration of corpses "independent of Blobel's activity" [34] , his own Sonderkommando used the mass graves in Kulmhof as test site for finding a more convenient and rapid method of body disposal. The treatment of the corpses with the flame thrower did not yield a satisfactory result though. [35] Blobel's commando also tried to burn out the Northern part of mass grave no. 2 in Figure 2 with thermite grenades. As a result of the violent thermal reaction, the nearby trees caught fire and about 2 hectares of the forest camp were burnt. [36] The reports on the blasting of corpses might be a reference to this thermite trial as well. [37] The aisle of destruction caused by the forest fire is pictured in an aerial photo of January 1945 (Figure 3).


Figure 3: Aerial photograph of the forest camp of January 1945 (courtesy of Patrick Montague). Encircled in orange the area burnt by the forest fire after Blobel's trial to destroy the corpses in mass grave no. 2 with thermite grenades in summer 1942. Also visible are the three clearings of the mass grave and cremation site.

After his failed attempts to destroy the corpses inside the mass graves, Blobel must have realized that the body disposal has to follow the tedious practice of Sonderkommando Kulmhof to take out the corpses from the trenches and incinerate them with wood and gasoline on pyres constructed on iron beams in pits. [38]"

First he tried to incinerate the bodies in the graves using a flame thrower, and then by blowing them to bits with thermite. Too bad he didn't use his tried and true method, which he described in his hoax 'confession' ...

"After the top had been removed the bodies were covered with inflammable material and ignited. It took about two days until the grave burned down to the bottom. I myself observed that the fire had glowed down to the bottom. After that the grave was filled in and the traces were now practically obliterated."

A little surprising I suppose is that apparently the Nazis decided to 'disappear' 100,000 bodies even before the Katyn discovery, just because of the smell? Did I read that correctly?

Also, there is the matter of the weapons of war, real, and fictional, here we have real weapons of war, actual arrowheads from the Battle of Thermopylae, 480BCE



but for phony weapons of war, i.e. the hoax 'gas vans' from 1940AD , there are no photos.

In the final analysis either the Nazis took extraordinary measures to disappear the bodies, because of the smell, or it's all just a pack of lies from the Jews. In either case the result is the same, as far as the physical evidence is concerned, it's just as if it never happened.
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