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15th December 2020, 12:27 PM | #2481 |
Watching . . . always watching.
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Q: "Is PartSkeptic a false prophet?"
Magic 8-Ball reply: "It is decidedly so." The Magic 8-Ball knows all and tells all. |
15th December 2020, 12:28 PM | #2482 |
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15th December 2020, 12:36 PM | #2483 |
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You have already been called a liar by several posters, including myself. That isn't 'your claim': it's a simple fact. And you are a liar. This also is a fact.
Second part smacks of the playground, but OK, I'll bite: are you accusing me of being a frequent liar, and, if so, have you any evidence from this forum of that? |
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15th December 2020, 12:41 PM | #2484 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Got any evidence for a god? Any god? Of course not. Got any evidence for an afterlife? Any afterlife at all? Of course you don't.
Why would anyone believe in such supernatural crap without a shred of evidence of any kind? By such borked rules one could claim Santa is real. Theists quite often make the absurd claim to a monopoly on morality. It is a blatant lie. None. There is no evidence for "karma" either and it is a heresy according to your own church. What is the defined punishment for heresy? Perhaps you do think so, but there is no evidence for divine retribution ever happening, so clearly, there is nothing to fear. What "die-off"? Have you no clue that despite covid, the world population continues to grow? There is no evidence for anything "spiritual". The planet will continue long after we are all dead and gone. We cannot stop that, we just wont be in it. The planet doesn't care whether we are or not. Who exactly? And do they mean what you think they mean? Of course you agree because it is what you want to happen in order to validate your fantasies. Now, I understand that you rationalise that by considering only numbers, but what you are fervently wishing for is the death of millions of fathers, mothers, sons, daughters and so on. Real actual people with lives and relationships and so forth but you want them dead. That is what you really want. What if your wife is one of the ones to be culled? What if you are? Is that OK? Or not? OK that is a mess of odd notions. I have worked and earned throughout the entire covid fiasco. I have no idea why you think that is impossible. Wow. death camps. You are aware that has happened before, right? |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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15th December 2020, 01:28 PM | #2485 |
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He injured his foot and is now recovering from it. How is this fatal?
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When he is sworn in, will you count this as a hard failure? Straw man. Evolution and its related processes have been explained to you many times. That you choose not to attempt to understand it doesn't make the evidence go away. What you say cannot happen has, in fact, been observed to happen. But of course right now you're just using turnabout to try to deflect from a question you obviously can't answer. Since there are so many various formulations of gods, and since even any one particular god is said not to be known with specificity, how can such a thing form any sort of testable explanation for anything? The answer is it can't. What you're taking as explanations are really just speculative attributions. Yes, you are called a liar by some posters. That they made such statements was never in question. What remains in question is whether those accusations are justified. You claim effectively that you have never lied, and therefore that your critics must be mistaken. Not only is your repudiation absurd on its face, your critics have provided evidence of lies you've told. You actively ignore them -- which is to say, you acknowledge that the evidence has been given, and then you specifically exempt yourself from having to address it, citing its length or its brusqueness or some other excuse. Since you refuse to provide any testable evidence of the claims you make, all that remains to discuss are the additional anecdotes and claims that you pile on top of them, and which you expect us to believe without question. Since so much of it is patently absurd or factually false -- and this can be determined -- then you have no business expecting skeptics to take you at your word. Whining that you're being mistreated only adds childishness to already unacceptable claims. I don't see why growing up must entail losing enjoyment of fantasy. Popular-culture conventions host hordes of adults very much enjoying fantasy. And I don't see why no longer accepting a fantastical claim as fact means it can no longer be enjoyed. This time of year we all enjoy season myths from one tradition or another without fretting about whether they're factually true. And on that basis you have argued that it's inconsequential to tell children these fantasies really are true, that it's not an operative lie to do so. But that argument hasn't survived scrutiny. You distinguish between white lies and factually equivalent operative lies based on nothing more than your desire to believe the latter. You are effectively asserting statements you admit you cannot know are true.
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15th December 2020, 01:46 PM | #2486 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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15th December 2020, 03:27 PM | #2487 |
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Vote like you’re poor. A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite |
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15th December 2020, 04:22 PM | #2488 |
Illuminator
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Originally Posted by Mojo
It sounds like you are terrible at basic legal work, despite your hilarious claims . |
15th December 2020, 04:28 PM | #2489 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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15th December 2020, 10:19 PM | #2490 |
Penultimate Amazing
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No, religious people do not have a monopoly on moral virtue. What's to be said about people who do the right thing only because they fear punishment? Is that really a good reason? I know you claim to be an expert philosopher, but you don't seem to have a very sophisticated understanding of the reasons behind right conduct.
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Now if you had some evidence that gods exist, that there is an afterlife, and that a judgment will ensue based on measuring our behavior against some objective standard, then you'd have a point. But religious people never have any of that. All they have are delusions of grandeur backed up by empty threats.
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I live in a very religious place, filled with people who pride themselves on imposing high moral standards. It's also rife with cronyism, shady business practices, rudeness, abuse. And without fail, a couple times a year, we see stories of criminal behavior -- some of it horrific -- from these people, often from those who whole positions of authority and trust in the prevailing religion. The point is the justification they offer: they believed themselves to be so just and holy that the ordinary rules didn't apply to them. The sociopathy you refer to doesn't respect religious boundaries. It's in the nature of those people to do what they do. Adding religion to it just gives them one more thing to manipulate to their advantage. They aren't going to suddenly stop being who they are because you tell them a fairy tale.
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What I have a hard time figuring out is why you cannot imagine how good things can be. Self-proclaimed prophets are always so gloomy. What is the seemingly inevitable connection between claims to prophecy and end-of-the-world fantasies?
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15th December 2020, 10:34 PM | #2491 |
Mostly harmless
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16th December 2020, 05:31 AM | #2492 |
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I am, of course, wondering why you think money won't help with problems, when you said before that your god fixed a grant application so your uncle could get money, which apparently did help him.
I'm also wondering why you didn't advise your uncle to go into a hospice, so you could watch nature take its course with his cancer? |
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'Of course it can be OK to mistreat people.'- shuttlt Bring Back the Yak! P.J. Denyer |
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17th December 2020, 05:46 PM | #2493 |
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To each his own. That sort of advice has to be very carefully given or not given at all. It started with a simple skin cancer that was supposed to be a simple operation. Who would advise that one does nothing? Complications set in. The decision making needed to be taken by a loving daughter who was not about to "abandon" their father. In my case, I have said quite plainly that if I do not want excessive care and expense. And I am 72 not 92. I am okay with nature taking its course. That was what my late wife and I decided before she fell ill. And that is what we did. It turned out that had she gone for massive conventional intervention it would have failed because they did not know of the underlying histoplasmosis infection. All her money would have gone. And I know of such cases. So, in her case it worked out. It was her time. |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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17th December 2020, 05:50 PM | #2494 |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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17th December 2020, 05:58 PM | #2495 |
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Wake up to the fact that many legal systems are corrupt. This corruption is why God is going to cause a great die-off and collapse the system. I was naive in that I thought a clear factual case properly presented would get justice and that I could appeal to the ConCourt if I got a "bad judge." I was wrong. The power of the Telcom industry goes all the was to the top. They are all bad. I did succeed in having their R250,000 cost (ridiculous for a simple half hour application) claim thrown out entirely because they thought they were dealing with a someone who did not know the law. The huge law firm for the Telco changed their name 9 months ago because they were associated with huge corruption scandals. |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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17th December 2020, 06:06 PM | #2496 |
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You call it a fantasy. You are a denier of facts. I met a climate change denier who is intelligent and sincere. But he wants to believe it will not happen. So he believes Tony Heller who make his arguments sound great and very scientific. You refuse to accept that God might be the correct explanation (with the Infinite Intelligence who created God) to the cause of the Universe. Your arguments against my hypothesis change to suit your position. They are inconsistent, which is the very claim you make about organized religion. You set God up as your own version, a straw man, that you then tear down. I can see the faults in such an argument. Santa Claus and God are false comparisons because of the logic and evidence for God. Show me any evidence for Santa Claus that is not a clear and deliberate plant by adults to entertain children. |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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17th December 2020, 06:18 PM | #2497 |
Mistral, mistral wind...
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Are you serious? You don't think it's a little presumptuous (to say the least) to at least imply that only people who need to find (or imagine) a purpose to the universe are "thinking people who seek truth and meaning to their live"? You are doing what atheists really do accuse some believers are doing- demanding that the atheist accept the believer's status quo without question as a basis for debate. That is a real debate stopper, to be unable to even imagine that your idea of "life's meaning" might not be someone else's, and that that difference is enough by itself to exclude someone from your arrogant definition of "thinking people."
I've been saying for a while in the Politics threads that a basic, even definitional, requirement for a workable democracy is the willingness of all parties to accept the possibility of loss in a fair election- that the fairness not be defined only in terms of their party's winning. Same thing here- if you can't accept the idea that people are going to think differently than you on some very basic questions, you have no business telling them that they are the ones stopping the debate- you haven't met the first requirement of fair and honest debate, which is the acceptance of more sides than just yours. |
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I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King |
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17th December 2020, 06:24 PM | #2498 |
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Yes I have evidence for God and so do many others. First I have personal experience that can only be explained by God. Second, I see the benefits to living a moral life according to the wishes of the Christian/Islamic God. Thirdly, it is explains the origin of the universe as no scientific explanation can. I could go on. You are free to be a denier. As for death camps, that is another distortion based on fear. You have a right to such fear given the sad state of morality in the world. If the world was more God-loving and God-fearing, then one would not fear the abuse of the concept of hospices. All the Jewish people I saw at the end of their life feared dying. Most were atheists for a start (God deniers) and also believed (as per the Jewish faith) that there is no afterlife. This is not so with Christians who for the most part do not fear dying. Most would prefer to live on, but accept it when the end comes. These are simple facts that most Jews would not deny. It is not an antisemitic statement but people on this forum are experts at twisting any constructive criticism into something nasty. It is not nasty. It is honesty, and sometimes honesty can be painful to accept. I have said that the update for conventional religions is necessary, and this is one area that the Jewish religion could change. Their massive influence in society is a problem in this regard. It will be interesting to see how the world deals with a God driven die-off. Hospitals and countries will NOT cope with the number that will die. Change will be forced upon them. |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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17th December 2020, 06:28 PM | #2499 |
Penultimate Amazing
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17th December 2020, 06:37 PM | #2500 |
Penultimate Amazing
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No, you don't. You have special pleading and question-begging that you demand we accept in place of evidence.
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17th December 2020, 06:37 PM | #2501 |
Illuminator
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Sorry but his statement IS a debate stopper. He refuses to deal with the question I posed. Instead of thinking differently to me he chooses not to think at all. I think you need to review the question I posed. It is not honest to say that he does not need an explanation for the origin of the universe. Humankind has pondered this question for millennia. This is a crucial point that atheists use an escape route. Usually they phrase it as "It just is" and try to move to areas that they can debate. Some at least say "Science does not know or even have a clue, and I since I only accept scientific proof for any idea, I do not know and am not prepared to offer my own hypothesis." Both of these also end the debate. Why take part? The answer is that they want argue on grounds that they know they can win. What is your response to my question? I have given a reasoned explanation for my viewpoint and am not asking people to simply agree with me. |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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17th December 2020, 06:44 PM | #2502 |
Illuminator
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The problem is that we all know that the eight ball is a mechanical device giving random answers. If the randomness is to be influenced by spirit then spirit needs a reason to do so. Since you do not believe in spirit and want the answer you got (did you actually do it?) then it is doubtful that you got the correct answer. Now if I did it, then maybe I would get a positive answer. Now who is the false prophet? |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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17th December 2020, 06:44 PM | #2503 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Correct. We refuse to accept a proposition that is not accompanied by testable evidence. "God" and "Infinite Intelligence" are just two words for basically the same thing, for which you have no evidence. The fact that you need to keep deploying profound-sounding names for ever-more-distant speculative entities is the evidence that your theory has no explanatory power.
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17th December 2020, 06:50 PM | #2504 |
Illuminator
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Simple choice and not complex at all. Either dumb matter had inherent attributes to form intelligence or intelligence was the prime cause to begin with. You are saying that this incredible complex physical universe appeared because dumb matter appeared without any cause. I explained that God appeared because an intelligent entity was the prime cause and that we are all an illusion. Use some logic. We are talking probabilities. Which is more probable? |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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17th December 2020, 06:52 PM | #2505 |
Penultimate Amazing
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The question you posed was merely a distraction from the question you couldn't answer. You got stumped, so you threw out an old chestnut.
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The origin of the universe is indeed a subject of considerable investigation and imagination. Science acknowledges that it is likely impossible to gather evidence that would allow us to test hypothesis for how it arose. Religionists don't even care about such a test. They simply declare that it was magically created by a magical, unknown being and then congratulate themselves for being so clever.
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17th December 2020, 06:56 PM | #2506 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Straw man. Asked and answered.
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17th December 2020, 06:58 PM | #2507 |
Illuminator
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Your list is contrived and distorted. But you will do it anyway. I wanted to add that one should avoid predicting death (or terrible personal tragedy). It is the reason the cards refuse to give an answer. I am taking a real punt here and only because it has become public speculation. If I am wrong, I am wrong. My wife has pointed out to me that although I get the major predictions right, I am often wrong in trying to figure out what the consequences would be. The odds are not in favor of my prediction and yes it is specific and short enough. Is there anyone giving odds? Or is it also considered too bad taste? |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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17th December 2020, 07:00 PM | #2508 |
Illuminator
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17th December 2020, 07:01 PM | #2509 |
Mistral, mistral wind...
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Great, let's do that- My highlight in your question. It's a perfectly on-point response to a "why" question to say that there may not be one- this is not "an escape route," it's an answer. That you don't like it because it doesn't make sense in your terms doesn't end the debate, it requires you to do more to uphold your end of it than to just sniff "hardly" at what you can't accept, or even, apparently, imagine- that is ending the debate and refusing to think. But you do you- keep trying to center the debate around only the areas you can debate. |
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I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King |
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17th December 2020, 07:03 PM | #2510 |
Illuminator
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The military will use anything that harms as a weapon. Emfs harm people but like tobacco it typically does the damage over decades. One could not fight a conventional war by air dropping tons of cigarettes on the enemy.
https://theconversation.com/scientis...ns-work-151730 |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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17th December 2020, 07:06 PM | #2511 |
Illuminator
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17th December 2020, 07:08 PM | #2512 |
Penultimate Amazing
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In what ways? Be specific.
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17th December 2020, 07:08 PM | #2513 |
Penultimate Amazing
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17th December 2020, 07:09 PM | #2514 |
Illuminator
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17th December 2020, 07:15 PM | #2515 |
Penultimate Amazing
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It's also acceptable to transpose the problem. If I pour concrete into a depression in the ground, the peculiar shape of the hardened result is not evidence that the hole was contrived to achieve it. It doesn't matter how remarkable I find the chunk of concrete in retrospect.
That the interactions of matter we see today form a harmonious, stable system in their environment is evidence only of harmony and stability amid disregarded chaos, not evidence of a contrivance. |
17th December 2020, 07:17 PM | #2516 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Indeed, the point of Tarot is that the mundane mechanics of the cards are supposed to be manipulated in a supernatural way to give a card that contains a specific message to fit the situation, subject to the interpretation of the reader. There's no reason not to suppose that a Magic Eight Ball cannot similarly be manipulated by "the spirits" to produce a result.
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17th December 2020, 07:17 PM | #2517 |
Illuminator
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You, like your God would keep killing all the innocent children in the flood, to teach them whose boss?
So again, you and your God want as many innocent people to die as possible... AGAIN.....just to show them whose boss? You and God are not nice people are you? You wan't to keep killing innocent people. |
17th December 2020, 11:11 PM | #2518 |
Illuminator
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I keep giving you guys personal anecdotes about the supernatural which, if it exists, is pretty much support for the existence of God. And do not accuse me of lying. No brain farts here either.
Here is another one. Those who are bored can move on and write TLDR. Yesterday a friend asked my wife if he could borrow our Toyota pickup to collect some cabinets from his guest house and take them home. My wife was a little reluctant to lend him the Kia mini-truck from her business because the business changes hands on 1 January 2021. The friend assured her that the pick-up was big enough. I was in the process of fixing the turn signals on the pick-up. They would turn on the hazards now and then without the hazards flashing. An obvious fault. The pickup is old (1993) and she was worried that he would get stopped by the police. When he told us that the police always set up a road block close to the guest house she was more worried. So despite my commitments I said I would drive and help him. Having fixed the turn signals I drove to his house to pick him up. He was going to take his car because he felt he had to put the shelves and drawers in his car. Halfway there, I could not put the pickup into 4th gear. Then it was 3rd gear that would not operate. I struggled to get it into 2nd gear and drove the rest of the way to his house. If any of you are following my tales you will recall that I have only once ever not reached my destination as a result of the many car faults that resulted in a breakdown. I told our friend that we must go to the factory to get the Kia mini-truck. I was supposed to have disconnected the batteries of it and the forklift we block the roller door with for the holidays. The foreman had locked his tools away and I did not have mine. A minor plus. We get to the guest house, and the three cabinets just fit on the back. With a few millimeters on the side and 100 mm at the back. The pick-up would have been totally unsuitable and we would have had to get the mini-truck anyway. And it was quite a journey. I now arrange to tow the pickup home, but decide to see if I can drive it in 2nd gear. I inspect the pickup clutch. There is hydraulic fluid in it, and I can see the mechanism operating fully. Strange. So with our friend following me I drive it home. No problems with the clutch at all! I will do some more inspection but I wonder what could have happened. It was serendipitous. So here is my "luck" which I have an over-abundance of. And just in time to use it to respond to those who say there is no evidence of God. How does science explain such unexplainable events? It cannot. Such events support the existence of intelligent supernatural entities, and God is one of them. |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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17th December 2020, 11:23 PM | #2519 |
Illuminator
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Just how innocent are people? I am finding a great deal of evil and corruption in the current society. Time for a clean-up in my opinion. If I die as a result of collateral damage then so be it. And if souls are reincarnated, as I claim happens, then where is the immorality? The standard of "innocent children" and "innocent people" is an arbitrary human standard. Why do you use it to object to God? Why apply an anthropomorphic standard to God? The Infinite Intelligent that is the prime cause is amoral. It created God and Satan. So evil can be punished. If society as a whole has not reigned in the bad guys then they have some culpability. You may be personally appalled by some of Gods actions. That is not a proof that he does not exist. It is also not proof that God does not act for the long-term good of man - despite some short-term suffering. |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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17th December 2020, 11:30 PM | #2520 |
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This is a multi-subject thread. Or do you set the rules? The site come up yesterday. It indicates that the military are aware of the harm that microwaves can do. After initial publications, most military scientists keep quiet about it. Not the phrasing: "A committee of 19 experts in medicine and other fields concluded that directed, pulsed radiofrequency energy is the “most plausible mechanism” to explain the illness, dubbed Havana syndrome." Once more, there is no other explanation. If we did not have the microwave explanation we would have to start considering "voodoo curses". |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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