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Old 22nd April 2021, 10:23 AM   #3321
JayUtah
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
You think I have not researched past plagues and pandemics thoroughly?
No, I don't. As I mentioned some time ago, you "prophesied" a pandemic that would follow essentially the same profile as the AIDS epidemic. You didn't know at the time how anomalous that one was in the grand scheme of things. You spent a great deal of time trying to rewrite that prophecy to make it fit the COVID-19 characteristics. So no, I don't believe that you have made any great study of epidemiology.

But you're changing horses. You claimed the COVID-19 pandemic was "unusual" because it tested people's values and social structures. This suggests a run-of-the-mill pandemic would not have those effects. Asserting that others were sent from God too doesn't erase the evidence that challenges your claim.
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Old 22nd April 2021, 11:11 AM   #3322
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You do know The Fly isn't a documentary, right? Like, even if we had working teleport technology that wouldn't happen?
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Old 22nd April 2021, 12:39 PM   #3323
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
No I am not. See my response to Jay Utah.
I have seen all of your responses to JayUtah. They are all filled with nonsense. You seem oblivious to the fact that many of us know full well who JayUtah actually is in real life. For decades. He is a respected paragon of logical argument.

Nope. You seem to think that he, and everyone else here is some spotty teenager in a basement somewhere.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Do you realize that the new tools brings the disadvantages inherent to the tool along with the advantages?
Well then we should ban hammers. Sure, one can use a hammer to build a house, but one can also use a hammer to kill a spouse.

By your logic, we should ban hammers.

That amused me to write.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
If the new tool (gene therapy) was so wonderful, it would have been approved long ago. The worry is the unintended consequences that are unknown in the long term.
Several gene therapies have been approved. I have no idea why you are ignorant of that fact. You could research say Tisagenlecleucel or similar luekemia treatments, but of course you won't.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
DDT was great in the short term. Why did they ban it? Smoking was also great for decades if not centuries why did they ban it? Cocaine in Coke was also great for decades. Why did they ban it? I could go on and on.
No doubt you will go on and on. Learning nothing. That is how science progresses, by learning from the real world, not some magic book of superstitious nonsense.

To address your daft claims, DDT is still in use, smoking is still happening and cocaine disappeared from Coke in 1929. Why? Because science moves on, science learns new things all the time, that is what it is for, and you seem unable to do so.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
GM crops also have great short term benefits. What about the long term?
GM crops have been around for thousands of years. How do you not know that?

Corn is a GM crop. Bananas are a GM crop. Wheat is a GM grass FFS. Humans have been GMing the living bejeebers out of every crop one cares to mention for millenia.

Once again, I am moved to ask how it is that you are totally unaware of this?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Why not take a gene from a fly and insert it into humans to prevent certain defects of give humans an added advantage?
Old news. Been there, done that. Doesn't really work. Yet.

Frankly, just this month a monkey-human hybrid was announced, pigs heart valves have been transplanted into humans and...

Once again, I am moved to ask how it is that you are totally unaware of this?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
What is the reticence to using this wonderful technology everywhere? Do you think it is just people being anti-science fuddie-duddies?
That's an odd statement. You are the one proposing that we chuck out all science. The very first heart transplant took place in your backyard, right in your own country.

And you would have banned it.

Well as it happens, I have two friends that have had heart/lung transplants. As far as I can see, they are in robust health, but their lives are curtailed due to so many covidiots in the wild.

You would have me terminate them through willful neglect.
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Old 22nd April 2021, 02:06 PM   #3324
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Same tactics as your hero Jay Utah. Smearing and sneer. Not surprising.
I have no heroes, although I do admire intelligence, critical thinking, constructive engagement and high wit, traits which you, as evidenced from your participation in this train smash of a thread, do not possess.

Saying you have no credibility is not in any way a smear or sneer, it’s a simple statement of fact, again based on the abundant evidence provided by your own posts in this thread.

Suffice it to say that probably all readers of this lengthy and mostly pointless script would side with any worthy contributor compared to the meandering paragraphs of semi-coherent spasmodic thoughts from a mediocre entitled engineer with delusions of grandeur, laces of conspiracy and buckets of cognitive dissonance.

Take another pain pill, have another headache, lie in bed another week, rail against another WiFi router, complain about another inept government official, buy another roll of tinfoil, rage against the sinfulness of Man and the absence of your god.

Feel comfortable with your abilities and what you have achieved.
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Old 22nd April 2021, 02:36 PM   #3325
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Originally Posted by EvilBiker View Post
I have no heroes, although I do admire intelligence, critical thinking, constructive engagement and high wit, traits which you, as evidenced from your participation in this train smash of a thread, do not possess.

Saying you have no credibility is not in any way a smear or sneer, it’s a simple statement of fact, again based on the abundant evidence provided by your own posts in this thread.

Suffice it to say that probably all readers of this lengthy and mostly pointless script would side with any worthy contributor compared to the meandering paragraphs of semi-coherent spasmodic thoughts from a mediocre entitled engineer with delusions of grandeur, laces of conspiracy and buckets of cognitive dissonance.

Take another pain pill, have another headache, lie in bed another week, rail against another WiFi router, complain about another inept government official, buy another roll of tinfoil, rage against the sinfulness of Man and the absence of your god.

Feel comfortable with your abilities and what you have achieved.
Tough one to call.

Our protagonist has variously claimed to have no education, some education and all the education possible at different times.

If the claims are to be given any credence, he is a legal eagle, scientist university alumni, ah, hell, I give up. Just assume that whatever profession you might imagine, he has been doing it for at least 5,000 years.
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Old 22nd April 2021, 10:43 PM   #3326
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
No, I don't. As I mentioned some time ago, you "prophesied" a pandemic that would follow essentially the same profile as the AIDS epidemic.
I've just remembered that he also predicted that it would affect prosperous areas/countries more than poorer ones because of the greater levels of EMF in the former. How's that prophecy working out for you, PS?
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Old 23rd April 2021, 05:56 AM   #3327
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I've just remembered that he also predicted that it would affect prosperous areas/countries more than poorer ones because of the greater levels of EMF in the former.
Unbelievable!
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Old 25th April 2021, 03:49 PM   #3328
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I've just remembered that he also predicted that it would affect prosperous areas/countries more than poorer ones because of the greater levels of EMF in the former. How's that prophecy working out for you, PS?
Most certainly; he is a Professor of Nescience

Last edited by Hans; 25th April 2021 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 1st May 2021, 07:40 AM   #3329
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Tough one to call.

Our protagonist has variously claimed to have no education, some education and all the education possible at different times.

If the claims are to be given any credence, he is a legal eagle, scientist university alumni, ah, hell, I give up. Just assume that whatever profession you might imagine, he has been doing it for at least 5,000 years.
And if he hasn’t been doing that profession he can get up to speed on it (and find problems that have eluded other people in that profession) in 10 minutes! (He must have fast WiFi.)
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Old 4th May 2021, 12:00 AM   #3330
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My wife and I flew to Cape Town for a holiday. The forecast was for rain and cold. Then only rain and cold on Monday and Tuesday. I said we would get great weather. Some cloud but not miserable rain. Arrived Saturday. Planned and did Blouberg, then Cape Point, then Seal Island, then Franshoek WineTram (Sun, Mon, Tues, Wed).

Got great weather. Sunshine at every picnic stop. Even got a tan. We planned a chill day on Thursday. Forecast was for sunshine but I wanted to stay home. It rained in the morning. Other two wanted to go out so I hoped for sunshine in he afternoon and we got it. Once again, got the photos to prove it. After Cape Point, we got back late. The rain began as we arrived.

Plane was packed both ways. Not a spare seat.

When at the beach I saw a woman with wild puffy red hair. Thought she looked odd and dressed odd. Although I was on the boardwalk and she was some way on the beach she suddenly turned her head to look at me. Even dropped her sunglasses. Then she adjusted her clothing. Mental telepathy.

On Sunday I went to a kids birthday party in the park. A young baby was lying on its back waving at the trees and clouds excitedly. I watched him and suddenly he stopped abruptly and looked down and to the side to look at me. Mental telepathy.
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Old 4th May 2021, 12:06 AM   #3331
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The radiation in Cape Town was quite low although I had no meter with me. We we staying in Hout Bay on the mountain side. I wore a cap with aluminium foil inside. Not much pain and no need to sleep.

In the airport I got a pain on the inside of my right eye going there and on the outside of my right eye coming back. Wifi. Struggled with pain and fatigue upon getting back.

Florida had a "directed energy" attack on two officials. This are mostly pulsed microwave.
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Old 4th May 2021, 12:30 AM   #3332
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
My wife and I flew to Cape Town for a holiday. The forecast was for rain and cold. Then only rain and cold on Monday and Tuesday. I said we would get great weather. Some cloud but not miserable rain. Arrived Saturday. Planned and did Blouberg, then Cape Point, then Seal Island, then Franshoek WineTram (Sun, Mon, Tues, Wed).

Got great weather. Sunshine at every picnic stop. Even got a tan. We planned a chill day on Thursday. Forecast was for sunshine but I wanted to stay home. It rained in the morning. Other two wanted to go out so I hoped for sunshine in he afternoon and we got it. Once again, got the photos to prove it. After Cape Point, we got back late. The rain began as we arrived.

Plane was packed both ways. Not a spare seat.

When at the beach I saw a woman with wild puffy red hair. Thought she looked odd and dressed odd. Although I was on the boardwalk and she was some way on the beach she suddenly turned her head to look at me. Even dropped her sunglasses. Then she adjusted her clothing. Mental telepathy.

On Sunday I went to a kids birthday party in the park. A young baby was lying on its back waving at the trees and clouds excitedly. I watched him and suddenly he stopped abruptly and looked down and to the side to look at me. Mental telepathy.
Is there, at this point, anything whatsoever that could happen to you, no matter how ordinary and mundane, that would not make you immediately reach for a supernatural explanation?

Telepathy is, of course, trivially easy to test. I say this purely for the record, knowing there is no chance whatsoever of you ever putting any of your irrational beliefs to a simple test that would show them to be mistaken.
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Old 4th May 2021, 01:18 AM   #3333
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I am seeing friends and family getting ill and some dying. Much more than usual. The excess deaths are much higher (125 000) than reported Covid deaths over a one year period. These are attributed to Covid under-reporting since they follow the Covid curves. https://www.samrc.ac.za/reports/repo...s-south-africa

What strikes me is what appears to be immune system lowering. A fit healthy 71 year old family member finds himself struggling to walk. A regular runner. Get blood tests and admitted right away to hospital. In and out. Tests and more tests. So far they are saying it is Epstein-Barr. A bad case.

Another family member who went into hospital with the RSV virus now has 6 months to live. Leukemia.

One parent at the kids party said their school called a parents meeting to discuss the 4 month problem with kids getting sick every two weeks. Keep kids home. Another parent said her school had the same problem. Her own kids are constantly ill. But she has no more leave.

So is this something out of the ordinary? My early predictions are that global immune systems may fail or drop thus leading to many more deaths due to "ordinary" causes.

Anyone else seeing more than usual serious illnesses?
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Old 4th May 2021, 01:28 AM   #3334
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No and no you didn’t.
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Old 4th May 2021, 01:30 AM   #3335
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I thought about which type of cells are targeted by the gene therapy vaccination. Found an interesting article that is somewhat out of date but had some detail.

Most articles just talk about the mRNA entering the "cell". Which cell?


Jay Utah. Does it matter which cells are targeted? How are they targeted - if at all? Does the delivery method have an effect?
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Old 4th May 2021, 02:12 AM   #3336
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Last time I looked excess deaths here in the UK was negative, i.e. fewer deaths than usual. This is attributed to (a) far fewer than usual flu deaths, due to the measures to limit transmission of Covid also doing the same for flu, and (b) the fact that some of those who would have been dying around now absent the pandemic actually died up to a year ago of Covid.
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Old 4th May 2021, 06:48 AM   #3337
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The radiation in Cape Town was quite low although I had no meter with me.
So you state as fact something you had absolutely no way of knowing. If you had no way of measuring the ambient radiation -- however crude -- then upon what evidence did you conclude there was low radiation in Cape Town?

Quote:
In the airport I got a pain on the inside of my right eye going there and on the outside of my right eye coming back. Wifi.
Or any of a number of other possible causes, none of which you will agree to let be bested. Further, while it's reasonable to presume that wifi is operating in an airport for the benefit or employees and passengers, there are innumerable other sources of radio frequency emissions at and near an airport. They are all immensely stronger than wifi, although operating on different wavelengths. You just jump straight to wifi because that's your confirmation bias.

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Florida had a "directed energy" attack on two officials. This are mostly pulsed microwave.
Cite your exact source for this, please.
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Old 4th May 2021, 06:52 AM   #3338
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I thought about which type of cells are targeted by the gene therapy vaccination.
There is no such thing as a gene therapy vaccination.

Quote:
Most articles just talk about the mRNA entering the "cell". Which cell?
You do know information on mRNA vaccines is freely available to anyone who bothers to look it up, right?

The wiki article gives the answer to your question about which cells they target in its second sentence.
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Old 4th May 2021, 06:57 AM   #3339
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Most articles just talk about the mRNA entering the "cell". Which cell?
Cells that implement the immune system. These cells form various tissues that are found throughout the body.

Quote:
Jay Utah. Does it matter which cells are targeted?
Yes, although the eligible cells are plentiful.

Quote:
How are they targeted - if at all?
By the use of binding proteins on the cell wall, the same way cells identify themselves for any other purpose in the body.

Quote:
Does the delivery method have an effect?
The delivery method of what? An effect on what?

Messenger RNA is used by the ribosomes of all cells to make proteins. How the mRNA arrives in the cytoplasm is irrelevant, although it typically is produced in the nucleus. Once the protein is created, the mRNA is dissolved and has no further effect.

The only thing this has in common with gene therapy is the mechanism used in labs to sequence nucleotides, in the case of the vaccine, to arrange them as messenger RNA. Then there are the general techniques of lipid encapsulation to transit the cell wall. Nucleotide sequences are notoriously fragile. Lipid encapsulation protects them, and can arise naturally or synthetically without any difference from the cell's perspective.

Last edited by JayUtah; 4th May 2021 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 4th May 2021, 07:03 AM   #3340
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Anyone else seeing more than usual serious illnesses?
What you see anecdotally doesn't matter. What matters is the measurement of illness rates, which uses proper sampling techniques and proper statistical models. As Pixel42 has noted, one of the most remarkable epidemiological outcomes of the COVID-19 pandemic is that regular influenza is way down. The same measures that prevent the spread of the coronavirus prevent the spread of other communicable diseases.

Sorry, even though you were hoping for everyone to die of some horrible plague so that you could claim to be a prophet, it's not happening.
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Old 4th May 2021, 07:36 AM   #3341
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
When at the beach... Mental telepathy.

On Sunday... Mental telepathy.
I have to agree with Pixel42: you're simply interpreting any number of unremarkable occurrences as "evidence" that you have special powers.

You don't.

By now it's obvious you know what kinds of evidence this group requires in order to believe your farfetched claims, and equally obvious you have no intention of producing it. In searching for a reason why you would continue in this unproductive exercise, the only one that comes to mind is that you expect negative responses so that you can then in turn complain about how badly the skeptics treat you, and be validated in your "persecution." You say you don't care what skeptics say about you. But obviously you do, because you keep provoking the same kinds of criticism over and over, only to complain about it -- up to and including singling out individual critics upon which to heap especially vitriolic hatred.

If you want to believe you have telepathic powers, go right ahead. If, instead, you want skeptics to treat you as if you have telepathic powers, they are perfectly right not to do so as long as you are unwilling to provide the testable evidence that would justify that treatment. So you might as well stop trying to milk it. Nobody's buying it.

You're not a prophet. You're not chosen by God. You're not an unsung genius. You can't predict the future. You don't have special mental powers. You aren't being targeted by telcos. You're not especially susceptible to electromagnetic field energy. And frankly, expecting that people believe all these things about you when the evidence is clearly against it is childish.
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Old 4th May 2021, 10:14 AM   #3342
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It's like someone blended Abe Simpson and Uri Gellar. Only somehow even more boring.
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Old 4th May 2021, 10:55 AM   #3343
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
...

When at the beach I saw a woman with wild puffy red hair. Thought she looked odd and dressed odd. Although I was on the boardwalk and she was some way on the beach she suddenly turned her head to look at me. Even dropped her sunglasses. Then she adjusted her clothing. Mental telepathy.

On Sunday I went to a kids birthday party in the park. A young baby was lying on its back waving at the trees and clouds excitedly. I watched him and suddenly he stopped abruptly and looked down and to the side to look at me. Mental telepathy.
Sorry, what exactly is the claim here? That you sent them some sort of deliberate telepathic message like "look at me!" and that was what caused them to do so? Have you ever had anything like that happen in your life before, where someone that you were looking at "suddenly" turned to return your stare, but without you sending any message? Or, conversely, instances where you consciously sent the message and got no response?

(Even if it were telepathy, it just seems like such a useless thing, if the best you can do with it, but no more, is to get someone to do something they could have done without it- I take it you're not claiming you exchanged meaningful thoughts with the woman or the baby)

All in all, though, I have to say that these examples of yours are so excruciatingly mundane that they cry out for the most basic parsimony of all- they're not just events that would benefit from an explanation requiring the fewest assumptions possible, they're events that don't really require any explanation at all. I mean, c'mon- a baby turned his head to look at someone who was staring at him, and you think that requires any more elaboration than "this happened"? The world must be a really strange place for someone who requires a plot device for every little ordinary action.
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Old 4th May 2021, 06:02 PM   #3344
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If any of these are too wordy... eye contact is not mental telepathy!!!
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Old 4th May 2021, 06:59 PM   #3345
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Have you ever had anything like that happen in your life before, where someone that you were looking at "suddenly" turned to return your stare, but without you sending any message?
Coincidentally it happened to me today, after responding to PartSkeptic. (I wonder if he'll make something out of that.) On my daily run, I passed a nice young lesbian couple on the other side of the street. One of them had blue hair, which caught my attention. They were taking pictures on their phones of the blooming flora. Just as I turned back to look where I was going (because the sidewalks here aren't especially even), they turned and waved at me. It may have been mental telepathy. Or it may be that I wear a neon yellow shirt and hat when I run and I'm highly visible. Because Utah drivers care little for pedestrians.
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Old 5th May 2021, 07:18 AM   #3346
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Aha. Have you done exhaustive research to determine how a yellow hat seems to deflect dangerous electromagnetic pulses? You're clearly sitting on a lucrative goldmine here. You should send one to your friend in South Africa for field trials.
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Old 5th May 2021, 07:38 AM   #3347
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
My wife and I flew to Cape Town for a holiday. The forecast was for rain and cold. Then only rain and cold on Monday and Tuesday. I said we would get great weather. Some cloud but not miserable rain. Arrived Saturday. Planned and did Blouberg, then Cape Point, then Seal Island, then Franshoek WineTram (Sun, Mon, Tues, Wed).

Got great weather. Sunshine at every picnic stop. Even got a tan. We planned a chill day on Thursday. Forecast was for sunshine but I wanted to stay home. It rained in the morning. Other two wanted to go out so I hoped for sunshine in he afternoon and we got it. Once again, got the photos to prove it. After Cape Point, we got back late. The rain began as we arrived.

Plane was packed both ways. Not a spare seat.

When at the beach I saw a woman with wild puffy red hair. Thought she looked odd and dressed odd. Although I was on the boardwalk and she was some way on the beach she suddenly turned her head to look at me. Even dropped her sunglasses. Then she adjusted her clothing. Mental telepathy.

On Sunday I went to a kids birthday party in the park. A young baby was lying on its back waving at the trees and clouds excitedly. I watched him and suddenly he stopped abruptly and looked down and to the side to look at me. Mental telepathy.
Cool story bro.
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Old 5th May 2021, 08:35 AM   #3348
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Originally Posted by JesseCuster View Post
Cool story bro.
Yeah. Somehow we are all big meanies for not paying any heed to some anecdote hurled for no apparent reason, in support of some random event for which there is no evidence that it ever actually happened.

It is odd that the proponent has devolved to hurling insult while also hurling unevidenced anecdotes and a stream of extraneous useless back story. Who actually cares about some random road trip? On top of that, we have the claim that the wifi was not so bad in the airport. Airports are a swamp of any frequency one could care to mention, ILS, NDB, Doppler radar and so forth. Somehow, our protagonaist noticed none of it. Only the Wifi. Which is rather useless in airports.

I could make a list of the frequencies in use, but I will not. PS can make his own nonsense. I have little need to add to that kettle of flat out nuts.

What is most important is to know whether or not PS had an onion tied to his belt as was the style at the time.

Nothing else matters.
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Old 5th May 2021, 09:09 AM   #3349
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Yeah. Somehow we are all big meanies for not paying any heed to some anecdote hurled for no apparent reason, in support of some random event for which there is no evidence that it ever actually happened.

It is odd that the proponent has devolved to hurling insult while also hurling unevidenced anecdotes and a stream of extraneous useless back story. Who actually cares about some random road trip? On top of that, we have the claim that the wifi was not so bad in the airport. Airports are a swamp of any frequency one could care to mention, ILS, NDB, Doppler radar and so forth. Somehow, our protagonaist noticed none of it. Only the Wifi. Which is rather useless in airports.

I could make a list of the frequencies in use, but I will not. PS can make his own nonsense. I have little need to add to that kettle of flat out nuts.

What is most important is to know whether or not PS had an onion tied to his belt as was the style at the time.

Nothing else matters.
Not quite. Was his hat yellow?
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Old 5th May 2021, 09:17 AM   #3350
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Aha. Have you done exhaustive research to determine how a yellow hat seems to deflect dangerous electromagnetic pulses?
No, but I have extensive anecdotal data about how it fails to deflect SUVs driven by drivers talking on cell phones. There's your real wifi conspiracy.
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Old 5th May 2021, 09:33 AM   #3351
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Coincidentally it happened to me today, after responding to PartSkeptic. (I wonder if he'll make something out of that.) On my daily run, I passed a nice young lesbian couple on the other side of the street. One of them had blue hair, which caught my attention. They were taking pictures on their phones of the blooming flora. Just as I turned back to look where I was going (because the sidewalks here aren't especially even), they turned and waved at me. It may have been mental telepathy. Or it may be that I wear a neon yellow shirt and hat when I run and I'm highly visible. Because Utah drivers care little for pedestrians.
And as far as the baby thing goes, I couldn't begin to say how many times I've had a baby or toddler-age child turn to stare at me as I was going about my business in a Wal-Mart or Waffle House, etc. My wife says there's just something about me that attracts kids that age- according to her, I'm a "baby-magnet" (which I think may be her gentle way of telling me I'm now too old to be a "babe-magnet," not that I ever really was that much of one). I actually had one baby in his mother's arms turn to stare at me while I was standing in line at a convenience store- and then burst into terrified screams when I smiled and waved at him. It took me a little while to convince the mother (if not the child) that I'm really not the baby-eating son of Satan I apparently look so much like.
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Old 5th May 2021, 09:36 AM   #3352
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
No, but I have extensive anecdotal data about how it fails to deflect SUVs driven by drivers talking on cell phones. There's your real wifi conspiracy.
That's a half hearted conspiracy. I bet they've identified you as the enemy of their secret plan to turn all our brains into porridge, and they're aiming for you.
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Old 5th May 2021, 10:25 AM   #3353
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This thread has become quite martyr'ish.
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Old 5th May 2021, 11:44 AM   #3354
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Not quite. Was his hat yellow?
Apparently not. Out protagonist wears an actual tin foil hat.

Now, I am quite aware that any amount of mockery surrounds the accusation of "tin foil hat" wearer, sure. It is a derogatory term for some wingnut proposing that the aliens are emitting mind control waves to make us all eat each other or burst into song. Whatever is the fruitloop claim du jour. All of us mock such nonsense for what it is.

However, in the real world, PS not only claims to wear a tinfoil hat for real, but a tinfoil suit on occasion.

That is a whole different level of claim, not least that the claims of the external wingnuts are fair game since they are not members. So lets us go neutral.

There are indeed a coterie of wingnuts who will form a tinfoil hat on the internet. Hard to believe, yet those people are real. Supposedly, such people claim, it is to mind control the sheeple so that they do not complain when they are wiped out. This is so that the illuminati can then rule over...What exactly?. Having wiped out all the mere drones, there will be nobody to support their dictatorship. A ruler of nothing is nothing.

Aha, they are draining our psychic energy, the proponents will say. Pretty useless once one has killed everyone, no?

When one tries to nail down exactly what the end game of such a plan might be, the answers are...bizarre. A loving god is planning to butcher everyone? They will all turn up again, so what is the point of that?

And so on. The problem with whatever crank flavour of apocalypse proponent is not that they are predicting said apocalypse, but that they actively want it to happen. And will use any means to kick it off.
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Old 5th May 2021, 09:35 PM   #3355
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Some more food for thought.

A family member is crippled by a puzzling illness. Extreme pain and numbness in his legs. Cannot even walk to the bathroom. Crawled on hands and knees to go take a shower.

The diagnosis of Epstein Barr does not seem to include such symptoms. My wife keeps asking me if it could be Guillain Barre. I googled it. An autoimmune disease that causes demyelination of nerves. Not completely understood. Often triggered after an infection, and one such infection is Epstein Barr.

So here we have instances where the immune system is triggered into attacking healthy cells after the immune system reacts to a foreign pathogen.

Any vaccine (conventional or mRNA) works by causing the immune system to be stimulated by a foreign pathogen. It logically follows that there could be instances where the immune system over-reacts and an autoimmune condition can occur. This is what some professionals think could be a side-effect of the current vaccination program.

There are two issues:
A. Could this be a very limited side-effect (very low numbers)?
B. Could this be a long-term side effect that will become wide-spread (high numbers)?

Should the medical community consider grouping people by risk categories, and waiting to vaccinate some groups?

Is it fair to say that the vaccination campaign can be considered a mass trial of a therapy that may have unknown long term effects?

Given my medical history, can I be given a "free pass" on any vaccination passport? Or must I be considered as "collateral damage"? If I die from the side-effects of the vaccination then the country is safe because I can no longer spread the virus?

Am I considered a "crazy anti-vaxxer" for daring to consider such questions?

Is God prompting me to consider such questions by having a family member suffer from this? (I am not saying God deliberately caused the suffering, because it probably would have happened anyway, but timing and apparent coincidence is a key component of psychic messages or prompts.)

It is my impression that the "great die-off" is going to be slow and drawn out. It will at least give me time to have a few more holidays and enjable times.
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Old 5th May 2021, 11:08 PM   #3356
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I require the food for my thought to be a hundred times more nutritious than that sort of baseless and fanciful speculation.
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Old 6th May 2021, 01:47 AM   #3357
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Some more food for thought.

A family member is crippled by a puzzling illness. Extreme pain and numbness in his legs. Cannot even walk to the bathroom. Crawled on hands and knees to go take a shower.

The diagnosis of Epstein Barr does not seem to include such symptoms. My wife keeps asking me if it could be Guillain Barre. I googled it. An autoimmune disease that causes demyelination of nerves. Not completely understood. Often triggered after an infection, and one such infection is Epstein Barr.

So here we have instances where the immune system is triggered into attacking healthy cells after the immune system reacts to a foreign pathogen.

Any vaccine (conventional or mRNA) works by causing the immune system to be stimulated by a foreign pathogen. It logically follows that there could be instances where the immune system over-reacts and an autoimmune condition can occur. This is what some professionals think could be a side-effect of the current vaccination program.

There are two issues:
A. Could this be a very limited side-effect (very low numbers)?
B. Could this be a long-term side effect that will become wide-spread (high numbers)?

Should the medical community consider grouping people by risk categories, and waiting to vaccinate some groups?

Is it fair to say that the vaccination campaign can be considered a mass trial of a therapy that may have unknown long term effects?

Given my medical history, can I be given a "free pass" on any vaccination passport? Or must I be considered as "collateral damage"? If I die from the side-effects of the vaccination then the country is safe because I can no longer spread the virus?

Am I considered a "crazy anti-vaxxer" for daring to consider such questions?

Is God prompting me to consider such questions by having a family member suffer from this? (I am not saying God deliberately caused the suffering, because it probably would have happened anyway, but timing and apparent coincidence is a key component of psychic messages or prompts.)

It is my impression that the "great die-off" is going to be slow and drawn out. It will at least give me time to have a few more holidays and enjable times.
What a load. The blatant narcissism of the last paragraph makes your real position clear.
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Old 6th May 2021, 04:13 AM   #3358
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Dear lord- I love the way you went from "a puzzling illness" through "I googled it" and then straight to "a family member suffer[ing] from this." But it's Jay who needs a lesson in humility...

I recently read a book in which a Restoration-era English politician (don't remember who- Danby?) is quoted as saying of Charles II and his brother, the future James II, that Charles "could understand if he would, and [James] would understand if he could." This whole thread has becomes an object lesson in the futility of trying to have a productive conversation with someone who neither can nor will.
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Old 6th May 2021, 07:21 AM   #3359
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
This is what some professionals think could be a side-effect of the current vaccination program.
Name the professionals and cite to where they have presented their findings. Just because you think something "logically follows" does not mean you know what you're talking about, or that you have obtained your information from knowledgeable and reputable sources, and have defensibly understood it.

Quote:
Should the medical community consider grouping people by risk categories, and waiting to vaccinate some groups?
What does the actual immmunological literature say on the subject? How do you know this is not already occurring, if advisable?

Some people cannot be vaccinated in general, or should not receive certain vaccines. The CDC has recommendations along these lines for all vaccines, including the COVID-19 vaccine. Again you seem to think there is something magical or special about the mRNA vaccine that poses special, unknown risks. But your justification rises no higher than vague insinuations about antigen-based immunology in general.

Quote:
Is it fair to say that the vaccination campaign can be considered a mass trial of a therapy that may have unknown long term effects?
No, because until you provide more authoritative information, your statement is more likely to be based on your own ignorant speculation and others' ignorant claims than on sound epidemiological or immunological findings.

And in no case does "can be considered" equate to "was intended to be." You're equivocating the question. Religious folk "considered" Social Security numbers to be the mark of the beast as spoken of in the Bible. That consideration hardly provides evidence that this was the government's intent. It's quite likely, given your track record, that you will "consider" everything to do with the coronavirus and its vaccines and preventative measures to be somehow connected to your claims to prophecy. However, agreement to that from skeptics is based on you providing evidence, not vigorously begging the question as you've done here.

Quote:
Given my medical history, can I be given a "free pass" on any vaccination passport? Or must I be considered as "collateral damage"?
If you have a diagnosable medical condition that prevents you from receiving a COVID-19 vaccine, then you should not receive it. Whatever accommodations the world health community may wish to offer in those cases are not yet clear. However, your unvaccinated state would not deny others with whom you wish to gather the right to asses the risk you pose to them, and to act accordingly. If you decide on your own authority not to be vaccinated, then you alone must bear the consequences of that decision. You don't get to play martyr because others refuse to indulge your whims to their demonstrable detriment.

Here in the United States I'm required to accommodate any of my employees who can document a medical or religious -- yes even religious -- exemption to the COVID-19 vaccine. However, that accommodation is hardly just to let them mingle among everyone else as if nothing were different. Nobody is free to simply flout rules intended for everyone's safety.

Quote:
If I die from the side-effects of the vaccination then the country is safe because I can no longer spread the virus?
Well, yes, if you're dead for any reason then you stop being a communicant. But your individual death is insignificant at the national level. Again, it only makes us laugh at you when you play martyr like this all the time. As much as you are hoping for a mass die-off event, it is not the goal of the world's health community to reduce the spread of the virus by introducing a vaccination with a high mortality rate. That is, however, what some of the more bat-crap crazy anti-vaxxers are saying. So if you want to distance yourself from their claims, you would do well to avoid that rhetoric.

Quote:
Am I considered a "crazy anti-vaxxer" for daring to consider such questions?
Ignorant speculation doesn't make you courageous. The goal is not to pigeonhole you into some convenient category by which you can be easily dismissed. The goal is to see what evidence you can present for your claims and concerns. In the past, it's been clear that you get your information about vaccines from anti-vaxx sources, who are mostly wrong and intentionally misleading. We can tell because we recognize the arguments.

And in this case you're simply fear-mongering through one speculated effect of all antigen-based vaccines and pretending this is somehow new and more dangerous in the present case. It's just the same ploy as the anti-capitalists raising the same claims every time a new generation of radio infrastructure is rolled out, whether or not they're true and applicable.

Quote:
Is God prompting me...
No. Pretending that you're some god's special pet is purely a delusion of grandeur.

Quote:
It is my impression that the "great die-off" is going to be slow and drawn out. It will at least give me time to have a few more holidays and enjable times.
How long will it take? How many people will die? If you want to be tested as a prophet, are you willing to provide testable claims? Or are you just going to continue to move the goalposts and whine when people call you on it?
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Old 7th May 2021, 12:35 AM   #3360
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I think that PartSkeptic is on to something about long drawn-out “great die-off”. In fact, I fear, we are all going to die. Some soon, and some after many, many years.
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