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Tags 2017 elections , Alabama elections , Alabama politics , roy moore

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Old 11th November 2017, 07:31 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
What are the crimes of Obama, the Clintons, Holder, Lynch, Abedin, Cheryl Mills etc.?

Apart from being Obama being Kenyan and thus ineligible to be president. And Clinton being a transvsetite murderer? And Holder being guilty of running the DoJ whilst black?

Anyone who still supports the current GOP* is a deplorable.


*Unless it is a candidate who has denounced these and has also shown by their votes or action that they condemn them.
Well the Clintons are the perpetual GOP boogeymen and the rest have something in common.
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Old 11th November 2017, 07:53 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Well the Clintons are the perpetual GOP boogeymen and the rest have something in common.
OK, I can get this if I try really hard...

Their IQ is greater than their age?

Or is there a chance that you might be referring to Constable Savage's worldview?

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Old 11th November 2017, 08:08 AM   #203
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Now they're considering a do-over because the most racist person in the race also happens to have a history of sexually abusing children.

Quote:
They've also weighed asking Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey to delay the Dec. 12 election to early next year. But she has already pushed it back once, after she assumed the role of Governor in April when her predecessor was removed, and this option would likely inspire Moore and his team to file a lawsuit in court.
Your base has decided it wants society's worst representing it; deal with it! It's not like Roy Moore was considered a decent human being before these revelations.
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Old 11th November 2017, 08:43 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Now they're considering a do-over because the most racist person in the race also happens to have a history of sexually abusing children.



Your base has decided it wants society's worst representing it; deal with it! It's not like Roy Moore was considered a decent human being before these revelations.
Obviously, this just isn't so, at least not when we regard "decent human being" as a subjective term.

He's very popular in Alabama. They believe that he's a good man, bringing sex with high school freshmen God back into the government, where he should be. Now, you and I can think that bringing God into government is a horrible idea, but they don't. We can also think that the whole sexual advance towards an underage girl undercuts his moral superiority, but at least he's not a Democrat, right?
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Old 11th November 2017, 12:35 PM   #205
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This is putting the party of "Lock her up!" in a really awkward position.
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Old 11th November 2017, 12:56 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
It's pretty telling that his biggest Alabama GOP defenders seem to assume it’s true but just don’t care. Almost like they expected the news to drop at some point.
And now we know why they assumed it was true.
Fmr Dep. DA Theresa Jones, who worked alongside Roy Moore, tells CNN: “It was common knowledge that Roy dated high school girls, everyone we knew thought it was weird...We wondered why someone his age would hang out at high school football games and the mall..."
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Old 11th November 2017, 01:11 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Didn't see this posted already, but this is hardly the worst fact of this case. Aside from the fact that a big chunk of the GOP and its rabid supporters are trying to justify this, there's also the disturbing fact that Moore refused to convict a man who raped a 12 year old adolescent child.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...ing-out-to-you

Excerpt:

Quote:
It was an open and shut case. A daycare center employee, Eric Higdon, raped a 12-year old child. He was found guilty under a sodomy statute specific to minors by all members of the 9-judge panel supreme court in Alabama.

Actually, make that all 9 members except one.

Judge Roy Moore.

Moore stated there was “no evidence in this case of an implied threat of serious physical injury.” A child was raped. What kind of “judge” says that?
I don’t think this case is a big deal. The article does not fairly represent the case. Higdon didn’t rape a 12-year old child. It was a “person who is less than 12 years old” (Ala.Code 13A-6-63(a)(3)). He was accused of molesting four children who were 3-5 years old. His conviction on that count (the “sodomy statute specific to minors”) was not appealed. The appeal was over a second conviction (also for first degree sodomy) based on “forcible compulsion”. That conviction was not “an open and shut case”, which is why it ended up at the Alabama Supreme Court.

It was a question of whether to uphold a precedent set by a previous decision by the Alabama Supreme Court. It was basically legal nitpicking over the meaning of "implied threat" and which section of the law applied and under which very specific circumstances that particular part of the law could be applied. It wasn’t like he was arguing that a person guilty of molesting children should have been set free, nor are the specifics of the case relevant to the current accusations against Moore.
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Old 11th November 2017, 01:12 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
My grandfather and grandmother were something like 29 and 16 when they were courting - my grandmother had my mother at 17, about a month shy of her 18th birthday. And my grandfather was from Alabama. A lay minister. Not a powerful man, but probably more powerful than her.

I remember when a schoolteacher (male) ran off with a 14-year-old student my grandmother said they were married in the eyes of the Lord and people should leave him alone. However, she also believed that you were married in the eyes of the Lord to the first person you had sex with, and everything after that was adultery.

Something I'm curious about with Moore - did he just want to get into their pants or did he see himself as pursuing their hands in marriage?

There are so many things I dislike about this man that his attraction to 16-year-olds would not be *the* deal-breaker, but the 14-year-old is another story. I can't unsee in my imagination the image of him in his tighty whities trying to get her to feel his boner. To me, it's more pathetic than creepy, and good for her for asserting herself.
Let's not get distracted by the shiny objects and forget the facts here. Moore approached this girl in the courthouse, unethical. He met her a block from her house, despite the lie he had the women's mothers' permission. He didn't date or court her, he took her to his house and gave her alcohol, then at some point got undressed, hardly a romance. And now he denies it ever happened, calling the victim a liar and himself the victim.

It isn't relevant whether teen girls dating older men is the norm in Arkansas.
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Old 11th November 2017, 01:30 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
I wonder if anyone else who knew Moore will come forward.
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Old 11th November 2017, 01:59 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
There's a Swedish term for middle aged men and beyond that are often desperate for noticeably younger women (or men): gubbsjuka which a literal translation would be something like "old man's sickness". Then again such men, at least in Sweden, aren't really interested in marriage as much as a casual sexual relationship.
An example

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Old 11th November 2017, 02:02 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
This is putting the party of "Lock her up!" in a really awkward position.
Its OK, they've got ideas about arresting the victims.
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Old 11th November 2017, 02:15 PM   #212
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Republicans put up with Trump calling Mexicans rapists, insulting a POW, making racist accusations against a federal judge, attacking Gold Star parents and boasting on tape about sexual abuse of women.
They’ve chosen to ignore accounts from more than a dozen women who allege Trump engaged in sexually inappropriate behavior.
Republicans have condoned lying, bullying and willful ignorance by a man some of them don’t trust with the authority to launch nuclear war.
So would they let a few allegations of sexual exploitation of children get in the way of a Senate seat?
You’ve got their answer.
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Old 11th November 2017, 02:31 PM   #213
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It is also interesting how now it is so acceptable for politicians (or at least Republicans) to wave away even the most egregious behavior by saying, "Oh, that was in my past." Apparently if a newly unearthed fact paints you in a horrible light it is either old news or fake news. Oddly I've seen both justifications used simultaneously to excuse Moore's child molestation.

"Okay, I did rape and kill a dozen people and eat their still beating hearts but that was over 10 years ago! It's old news! Has nothing to do with my qualifications for office now."

"Sure I was once avidly pro-choice, but as I thought about it more I changed my mind and now I am pro-life!" Once, in this case, usually means ~8 months earlier, just before the person decided to run for office on a conservative platform.

It works for religious "leaders" too:
"I admit that I've had eight affairs with church goers including three 15 year olds, emptied the church coffers to pay for my gambling and drug addictions, and knocked my son unconscious with a baseball bat because he has a gay friend. But all that bad behavior of mine ended last week, and I am now really sorry! Oh- I also asked God for forgiveness and he's on my side now too."

This, "That's past history" excuse seems to be most readily accepted by rightwing evangelists. I guess it comes from the emphasis in Christianity of forgiveness, but who the fundamentalists are willing to forgive depends very heavily on their political views. I haven't heard of this group forgiving Democrats very readily.
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Old 11th November 2017, 02:35 PM   #214
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It's easy to picture Moore tearfully asking for forgiveness because he kind of looks like Jimmy Swaggart.
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Old 11th November 2017, 03:53 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
How convenient, cherry pick the extreme reactions to Moore and paint him as a persecuted soul. **** off with that ****. This ******** should be in no position of public power.
If you'd actually read my posts in this thread it would be obvious that i agree that he shouldn't be elected even before these last revelations.

No need to angry. Seriously calm down people.

Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I don't care if it was legal. I'm of the mind that teenagers can bang each other all they want. Someone twice their age getting in on the action? No. I don't approve.
Your puritanical and moralistic attitude to the sex is disheartening. I pity you.

Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Where you see motives beyond that, they are on you.
So when they all but describe the other three girls as victims, such as by calling them accusers as if he raped or sexually assaulted them too even-though nothing wrong occurred in those encounters (beyond the fact that an 18 year old was served alcohol, being 1 year under the legal age of drinking), that's just irrelevant?

In another article they don't mention that his interaction with the three other "accusers" was perfectly legal. They also describe his dates with those girls as "misconduct" without elaborating. They are, intentionally or not, muddying the waters.

I think it's pretty clear that they are using the extreme, if not outright violence inducing, hatred that some Americans have towards age-differences.
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Old 11th November 2017, 04:06 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
... hatred that some Americans have towards age-differences.
And what about Moore picking up on a teen in the courthouse while he was a DA there, telling the mother he'd watch her child for her? And how about the teacher-student relationship when he taught a civics class and started dating a student? Is that OK with you too?
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Old 11th November 2017, 04:43 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Republicans put up with Trump calling Mexicans rapists, insulting a POW, making racist accusations against a federal judge, attacking Gold Star parents and boasting on tape about sexual abuse of women.
They’ve chosen to ignore accounts from more than a dozen women who allege Trump engaged in sexually inappropriate behavior.
Republicans have condoned lying, bullying and willful ignorance by a man some of them don’t trust with the authority to launch nuclear war.
So would they let a few allegations of sexual exploitation of children get in the way of a Senate seat?
You’ve got their answer.
Indeed. The least shocking thing about these accusations against Moore is that (most) Republican's still seem to be defending him. For Republican's apparently a pedophile is apparently still preferable to a Democrat, especially one who prosecuted the Ku Klux Klan members who killed four African-American girls in 1963. Alabama Republicans are supporting the child molester.

Ideology is indeed the Chimpanzee part of the brain at work. Unfortunately no one looks good flinging poop.

So much for the moral majority.
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Old 11th November 2017, 04:50 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
If you'd actually read my posts in this thread it would be obvious that i agree that he shouldn't be elected even before these last revelations.

No need to angry. Seriously calm down people.



Your puritanical and moralistic attitude to the sex is disheartening. I pity you.



So when they all but describe the other three girls as victims, such as by calling them accusers as if he raped or sexually assaulted them too even-though nothing wrong occurred in those encounters (beyond the fact that an 18 year old was served alcohol, being 1 year under the legal age of drinking), that's just irrelevant?

In another article they don't mention that his interaction with the three other "accusers" was perfectly legal. They also describe his dates with those girls as "misconduct" without elaborating. They are, intentionally or not, muddying the waters.

I think it's pretty clear that they are using the extreme, if not outright violence inducing, hatred that some Americans have towards age-differences.
What might be relevant here is the fact that the accused is so because of the mores of the society he is part of. If the country or state is 'puritanical' and have laws devised on such morality, it's important to view the situation in that context. The more relaxed (and correctly so, in the main, as far as I'm concerned) attitudes of Europeans cannot be interjected here. After all, Moore is (nominally!) not disconnected from society, and so should/must adhere to the norms of his community.

And those norms have long established that an adult foisting him/herself sexually on a child of 14 is committing an illegal act punishible by a prison term (where the statute of limitations has not expired.) I say even the most libertine views on adult/child relationships cannot rightfully condone such an imbalanced pairing.

Judge Roy, if he actually did what his accuser claims, does not belong in any significamt position of trust, because he egregiously violated that trust in one of the more disgusting ways he could possibly do so.
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Old 11th November 2017, 06:04 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
What might be relevant here is the fact that the accused is so because of the mores of the society he is part of. If the country or state is 'puritanical' and have laws devised on such morality, it's important to view the situation in that context. The more relaxed (and correctly so, in the main, as far as I'm concerned) attitudes of Europeans cannot be interjected here. After all, Moore is (nominally!) not disconnected from society, and so should/must adhere to the norms of his community.

And those norms have long established that an adult foisting him/herself sexually on a child of 14 is committing an illegal act punishible by a prison term (where the statute of limitations has not expired.) I say even the most libertine views on adult/child relationships cannot rightfully condone such an imbalanced pairing.

Judge Roy, if he actually did what his accuser claims, does not belong in any significamt position of trust, because he egregiously violated that trust in one of the more disgusting ways he could possibly do so.
Moore's denial really simplifies the moral logic here. We don't actually have to figure out what the cultural standard is. If he is lying about it, that means he thinks it is standard and he violated it.
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Old 11th November 2017, 07:27 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
I don’t think this case is a big deal. The article does not fairly represent the case. Higdon didn’t rape a 12-year old child. It was a “person who is less than 12 years old” (Ala.Code 13A-6-63(a)(3)). He was accused of molesting four children who were 3-5 years old. His conviction on that count (the “sodomy statute specific to minors”) was not appealed. The appeal was over a second conviction (also for first degree sodomy) based on “forcible compulsion”. That conviction was not “an open and shut case”, which is why it ended up at the Alabama Supreme Court.

It was a question of whether to uphold a precedent set by a previous decision by the Alabama Supreme Court. It was basically legal nitpicking over the meaning of "implied threat" and which section of the law applied and under which very specific circumstances that particular part of the law could be applied. It wasn’t like he was arguing that a person guilty of molesting children should have been set free, nor are the specifics of the case relevant to the current accusations against Moore.
Really!? He took the position that the 17 year old perpetrator was a child in his argument. That's very revealing.
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Old 11th November 2017, 08:25 PM   #221
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OK. I'm calling bull **** on this Mary was 13 or Mary was a teenager assertion. And what's with the news media they couldn't look up what the Bible actually says?

Truth or tradition: “How old was Mary (the mother of Jesus) when she became pregnant?” & “How old was Mary when she gave birth to our Lord Jesus, the Christ?”

Well well well, it's like doing the generation math and claiming the Earth is 6,000 years old, people just guessed.
Quote:
One very remarkable thing about Mary is that she would almost certainly have been 12-14 years old when the angel Gabriel appeared to her. We know this because the common custom at that time was for girls to marry early, at that age. The Bible never gives Mary’s age when she got pregnant or gave birth to Jesus, and that is because when something happened that was common in the culture, nothing was said about it.
Sounds like Apologetics, "when something happened that was common in the culture, nothing was said about it."

Some of the stuff in this article is credible re assuming Mary was a young teen. But one then has to wonder why some of these anti-Muslims complain about Mohammad and a 9 yr old.
Quote:
Some customs of biblical Palestine continued through the centuries, and after her trip to the Near East around 1910, Alma White commented on the age of marriage in Palestine, “A girl is usually married in her twelfth or thirteenth year, and sometimes as early as her tenth year.” [4] W. M. Thompson, a missionary in the Middle East for some 30 years, attests to the same thing. [5] James Neil points out that everyone married, because they felt obligated to fulfill God’s command to be fruitful and multiply, and that, “Girls are ‘given in marriage’ at eleven or twelve years of age, though this is not the limit. They are frequently married as young as nine….” [6]
But I digress... Sorry.
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Old 12th November 2017, 12:27 AM   #222
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The really fun part is that those same fundies, two generations ago, would've run me out of town on a rail if I'd said, "What's wrong with teenage pregnancy? Jesus' mommy was a teenager." Church Lady would've washed my mouth out with soap. Joseph and Mary were Hollywood star/starlet age.

The great thing is that it's like using Harry Potter as an authority on ornithology. Here, let's take this example of a fictional character and his fictional virgin mom.
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Old 12th November 2017, 12:28 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Really!? He took the position that the 17 year old perpetrator was a child in his argument. That's very revealing.
Yes. Everybody agreed that the 17-year-old Higdon was a child because under the law he would have to have been 18 years old to be considered an adult. As I said, this was legal nitpicking, but here goes…

Under Ala. Code 13A-6-63 a person commits first degree sodomy if they engage in deviate sexual intercourse 1) by forcible compulsion, 2) the victim is physically helpless or mentally incapacitated, or 3) the person is 16 or older and the victim is less than 12. Higdon was convicted under (1) & (3). He appealed the conviction under (1).

The term “forcible compulsion” is defined as “[p]hysical force that overcomes earnest resistance or a threat, express or implied, that places a person in fear of immediate death or serious physical injury to himself or another person.” That is, the victim either physically resisted or there was a threat of serious injury. In Higdon, there was no evidence of physical resistance, an express threat, or that he explicitly made any implied threat. So, the question was whether Higdon’s authoritative role itself would constitute an implied threat from the child’s perspective.

In Powe v. State, a 40-year-old man assaulted his 11-year-old daughter. The Alabama Supreme Court ruled that because the girl said she was afraid of her father, there could be an implied threat simply because the father was an authority figure in her world. In other words, from the perspective of the child there was an implied threat of punishment if she did not comply with the sexual activity.

In Ex parte J.A.P., a 14-year-old boy (J.A.P.) was accused of attempting to rape his 9-year-old half-sister. The Alabama Supreme Court recognized that the implied threat allowed under Powe was “limited to cases concerning the sexual assault of children by adults with whom the children are in a relationship of trust.” The court ruled that this type of implied threat would “apply only to cases involving the sexual assault of children by adults who exercised positions of domination and control over the children.”

Higdon was 17 years old, so he was not an adult. Therefore under J.A.P. there would not have been an implied threat simply because of his role in assisting a child to the restroom. Based on the J.A.P. ruling, the appellant court overturned the conviction of Higdon under (1) and affirmed the conviction under (3), which was not contested. However, several judges of the appellant court said they disagreed with the ruling in J.A.P. and asked the Supreme Court to revisit the decision.

The Alabama Supreme Court did revisit the decision and reversed the course under Powe and ruled that the totality of the circumstances could be taken into consideration when determining whether there was an implied threat as a result of a person’s authoritative control over a child.

Moore dissented for a few reasons. He disagreed with overturning the rule established by the court under Powe. That is where the whole argument about Higdon not being an adult comes into play. (It took a while to get to this point, but now you can see how it fits in.)

Moore argued that the law specifically only applies when the perpetrator “places a person in fear of immediate death or serious physical injury.” The law defines serious physical injury as “[p]hysical injury which creates a substantial risk of death, or which causes serious and protracted disfigurement, protracted impairment of health, or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily organ.” The crime of first degree sodomy is intended to be a defined as a serious crime. While a person may have some authority over a child and even use that authority and even threat of punishment to get the child to engage in deviate sexual intercourse, that punishment typically does not meet the standard of “serious physical injury.” The perpetrator would still be guilty of a crime, just not this particular crime for this particular reason.

Moore argued that permitting this type of implied threat would constitute the court creating a law not established by Congress. Congress already explicitly made it a crime of first degree sodomy if the person was 16 or older and the victim under 12 (second degree if the victim is 13-15). He argued that the Court should not seek to establish a rule about when an older perpetrator may be considered to have an implied threat over a younger victim by reason of their authority when Congress had already established that rule under law.

You may agree or disagree with Moore on these points, but it is clearly not what has been implied by Moore’s opponents or the Daily Kos article.
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Old 12th November 2017, 03:12 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Moore's denial really simplifies the moral logic here. We don't actually have to figure out what the cultural standard is. If he is lying about it, that means he thinks it is standard and he violated it.
This.
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Old 12th November 2017, 06:53 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
But all that bad behavior of mine ended last week, and I am now really sorry! Oh- I also asked God for forgiveness and he's on my side now too."

There is no sin so egregious that asking for God's forgiveness won't exonerate you in some circles. See, for example, the Chick Tract "Lisa", which was so offensive that they actually stopped publishing it.
Molested your six year old daughter, let your neighbor molest her, and gave her an STD? Just ask God for forgiveness and everything is fine.
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Old 12th November 2017, 07:19 AM   #226
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What a difference a year makes:
.@KellyannePolls on Roy Moore allegations: “The conduct as described should disqualify anyone from serving in public office.”
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Old 12th November 2017, 08:18 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
There is no sin so egregious that asking for God's forgiveness won't exonerate you in some circles. See, for example, the Chick Tract "Lisa", which was so offensive that they actually stopped publishing it.
Molested your six year old daughter, let your neighbor molest her, and gave her an STD? Just ask God for forgiveness and everything is fine.
Is that a problem?
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Old 12th November 2017, 08:55 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
I have no such confusion and I don't observe anyone else making that assertion.

My particular objection is that imo, any 30 something adult of any persuasion that was pursuing 14 year olds (where lawful or otherwise) rather than like age partners has issues. Even where legal. Whatever floats their boat is their business, but that wouldn't be likely to be someone I'd welcome as a friend or colleague.

And FWIW, I'd look at someone in my age group pursuing a 30 something partner as both ludicrous and creepy. I've seen it in the RW and it's amazing to see some old duffer try to chat up a 20 or 30 something woman - note to creepy 60 + year old men - the beautiful 30 something cashier at Trader Joe's is not looking for you unless she's trying to give you back the bifocals you forgot at her check stand.
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Old 12th November 2017, 09:08 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
What is the ratio of 30 year olds that date teenagers that you would consider well put together.

Anyone who says ,"she is mature for her age" probably isn't mature for their age.
Good heavens, Bob, it appears we heartily agree on something! Let's go get a malted and celebrate.

In all honesty, I'm too accustomed by now to government hypocrisy to get strictly outraged. But all the crusty old evangelicals defending child-banging in the media now are quite disturbing.

I remember being 14. I remember being 16. I remember being 18 but still in high school. I wasn't remarkably behind the group in any sort of "maturity." I was a pretty good kid. But I was an uninitiated sexual moron. And I needed to work that out with guys my own age. The idea that I could have had a good, fulfilling romp with a 30-something is laughable.

It may not be rape, but it's not right.

ETA - And to illustrate, let's just flip it around. I am now almost 30. Let's have a look at some high school age boys. Oh, yeah, they look like literal children. They have different life priorities. They couldn't start my motor if I were being paid.

You don't hear of too many child marriages with significantly older adult brides. Why is that, I wonder?

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Old 12th November 2017, 09:08 AM   #230
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A question I missed in the past (page one) : Who is Gay Marraigne? Never heard of her!!!
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Old 12th November 2017, 09:09 AM   #231
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Or, should that have been Guy Marraigne?????
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Old 12th November 2017, 09:40 AM   #232
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Poll: 37% of Alabama evangelicals say they’re more likely to vote for Moore given sex abuse allegations, only 28% are less likely. Good ole "Christian Values" on display.
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Old 12th November 2017, 10:28 AM   #233
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Here is a recent Alabama US Senate Poll after the Ray Moore allegations.

http://winwithjmc.com/wp-content/upl...ion-Poll-2.pdf

29% of respondents are more likely to support Ray Moore after learning of the allegations.

The biggest groups this is true of is white evangelicals. Whites at 34%, and evangelicals at 37%.

Edit: Aw, Stacko beat me to it
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Old 12th November 2017, 11:12 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post

I'm not really seeing that anywhere. I do note this part: "His 63-26% support among evangelicals has dropped to 57-34%," but I don't see anything that specifically points out the percentage of evangelicals that are more or less likely to support Moore.
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Old 12th November 2017, 11:18 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
I'm not really seeing that anywhere. I do note this part: "His 63-26% support among evangelicals has dropped to 57-34%," but I don't see anything that specifically points out the percentage of evangelicals that are more or less likely to support Moore.
It's the other way round.

But still

http://winwithjmc.com/wp-content/upl...ion-Poll-2.pdf


Quote:
Question 8: Given the allegations that have come out about Roy Moore’s alleged sexual misconduct against four
underage women, are you more or less likely to support him as a result of these allegations?
More Likely 29%
Less Likely 38%
No Difference 33%
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Old 12th November 2017, 11:24 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
I'm not really seeing that anywhere. I do note this part: "His 63-26% support among evangelicals has dropped to 57-34%," but I don't see anything that specifically points out the percentage of evangelicals that are more or less likely to support Moore.
Last crosstab on page 12. I wish they had of separated it into black & white evangelical voters because I bet there'd be a significant difference.

ETA:


Last edited by Stacko; 12th November 2017 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 12th November 2017, 12:25 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Last crosstab on page 12. I wish they had of separated it into black & white evangelical voters because I bet there'd be a significant difference.

ETA:

Does the question mean that the evangelicals are? or are all the responses for evangelicals?

Looking at the other cross tabs, and the total column, it would seem that the your interpretation is correct, but I am struggling to see how one could be "undecided" about whether one is an Evangelical...
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Old 12th November 2017, 12:26 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
...

You may agree or disagree with Moore on these points, but it is clearly not what has been implied by Moore’s opponents or the Daily Kos article.
It does however, explain why Moore didn't see anything wrong with his position of authority over students and the daughter of a subject in the courtroom he worked in.
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Old 12th November 2017, 01:03 PM   #239
I Am The Scum
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
I'm not really seeing that anywhere. I do note this part: "His 63-26% support among evangelicals has dropped to 57-34%," but I don't see anything that specifically points out the percentage of evangelicals that are more or less likely to support Moore.
To be clear, the less-likelys outnumber the more-likelys, so it's still a net loss for him. Still atrocious, though.
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Old 12th November 2017, 01:29 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Let's not get distracted by the shiny objects and forget the facts here. Moore approached this girl in the courthouse, unethical. He met her a block from her house, despite the lie he had the women's mothers' permission. He didn't date or court her, he took her to his house and gave her alcohol, then at some point got undressed, hardly a romance. And now he denies it ever happened, calling the victim a liar and himself the victim.
I don't disagree with that.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It isn't relevant whether teen girls dating older men is the norm in Arkansas.
Alabama.

My main point though is that the 16-year-olds don't make me any less likely to support Moore - because the chance of my supporting him was 0 percent to begin with.
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