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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 25th August 2017, 11:07 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The Apraio pardon..particularly the timing...does it for me.
Trump must be removed from office...by whatever means necessary.
I discount the timing. Trump has indicated for quite some time that he was looking at pardoning Joe. It was building to that in the media and even here on ISF. I think it was to be this Friday, no matter the weather. Having a hurricane was just god's way of giving Trump a helping hand ... or it was just damn good dumb luck. Take you pick.
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Old 25th August 2017, 11:10 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
I don't ever want to read a story about new staff trying to moderate Donald Trump again. They're clearly empty puff pieces. Way to tarnish your reputation General Kelly.
Agreed, His Administration is like the tar baby. You cannot win and if you get away, you're alll tarred up anyway. I'd like the military to stay out of the White House.
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Old 25th August 2017, 11:24 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Ok, I'm sitting in a hotel room in Poland. Only news channel on for the U.S. is CNN. The news is like 90% Trump and Company. They even have some friggin item on how a Duck Dynasty wife tweets against Trump

Sorry, I can't help but think CNN elected Trump and they love it he's there.
Why would you apologize for your observation of the obvious?

We have a news media that sold us the war in Iraq and now they are selling Trump TV. It's horrendous.

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Old 26th August 2017, 12:37 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
IMO the military men in the Trump Administration have been given way too much credit for being honourable warriors attempting to curtail the President's worst excesses. They aren't, they are willing accomplices in his right-wing agenda and are wholly on board with his policies.

The "honourable warrior" is a much of a lie as the "successful deal-maker"
I think there's nothing that is more of a clear identifier of a "moderate" in American terms (meaning four metres right of center in UK terms) than the number of people who have held out hope for the various reprehensible individuals discussed and then appointed by Trump. Hell, we had Democrats in this sub-forum who were cheering on Pence for being a sane influence. Pence!!?? Old school misogynist homophobe.

Ditto the military men. The military brass, almost to a man, are hard line paranoid militarist conservatives. Flynn's going to bring some order? Yeah, like he did at Homeland Security where he enforced the letter of the law to the point of locking up and tossing out? He's a foul right wing bastage like McMaster and like the Mad Dog.

The fact that each of them has sat dumbfounded and done nothing (like handing in a resignation) through Trump's support of the uber right should tell us something. (Oh, and ditto all the unnamed members of the administration who leak to the news with each passing ****-up, how they've known he was like this but thought he'd do a better job of not shooting of his orange mouth in public! WTF, people? You've known this and you stay around hoping he'll hide his bigotry, misogyny, misanthropy? For what? Why, for the world you hope to build! Make America Great Again as it was under the robber barons of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.)
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Old 26th August 2017, 02:09 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
The fact that each of them has sat dumbfounded and done nothing (like handing in a resignation) through Trump's support of the uber right should tell us something.
Well yes, it's clear that almost every senior GOP representative and official, the vast majority of GOP members and the overwhelming majority of GOP supporters are Nazis, white supremacists or racists (or some combination thereof) - or at least are sufficiently supporting of Nazi, white supremacist or racist causes that they're willing to allow a President and his administration to support Nazis, white supremacists and racists without a peep.
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Old 26th August 2017, 02:45 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The Apraio pardon..particularly the timing...does it for me.
Trump must be removed from office...by whatever means necessary.
What do you mean about the timing? The Hurricane?
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Old 26th August 2017, 03:03 AM   #87
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Quote:
An Ohio electric utility and one of the country's top coal companies had some well-placed help when pressing President Donald Trump for emergency federal assistance for the coal industry — his former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski.

The companies wanted Trump to prevent utilities from closing economically ailing coal-fired power plants, using authorities normally designed to protect the U.S. electricity supply during emergencies. And as they made their case, they got support from the former Trump aide, who has remained in the president's orbit despite being fired from his campaign more than a year ago.

...

The Energy Department eventually decided that the action the companies sought would be inappropriate. But the companies had nearly succeeded: According to letters from Republican donor and coal magnate Robert Murray, CEO of the mining company Murray Energy, Trump twice said he supported requiring coal power plants run by a subsidiary of FirstEnergy to keep running, even if the subsidiary fell into bankruptcy.

The records do not indicate whether FirstEnergy or Murray Energy were paying Lewandowski to represent them. Lewandowski, who's now a consultant, has not registered to work for the companies as a lobbyist.

Lewandowski's involvement, and the fact that he wasn't registered as a lobbyist, were among the factors that alarmed some senior officials. They also worried that the administration would be taking controversial, potentially inappropriate steps on behalf of a company that was aligned with a consultant close to Trump.

...


In Murray’s letter, first published by the Associated Press on Tuesday, the coal CEO said he and Jones had pushed their case to Trump in an early July visit to the Oval Office. When they met him again on an Aug. 3 trip to Huntington, W.Va., Trump told an aide in the presence of both CEOs to "tell Cohn to do whatever these two want him to do." That was an apparent reference to Gary Cohn, director of the White House's National Economic Council.

Murray's letter added that during another conversation in July with Trump in Youngstown, Ohio, about a federal power emergency declaration to keep the plants open, the president turned to Energy Secretary Rick Perry and told him three times, "I want this done."

Despite Trump's orders, the Energy Department and officials in the White House rejected the move, because the emergency powers are designed to be used to ensure the power grid is not compromised rather than to prop up ailing businesses. The officials said the Ohio power plants that FirstEnergy and Murray wanted to keep open were not necessary to maintain the power network, which was amply supplied by other plants.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...obbying-242052

Trump should protect unprofitable and uncompetitive polluting power plants only because they happen to be owned by people he knows. In fact the federal government should step in and subsidies these power plants so they can continue to operate indefinitively. He can't let more environmentally and economically friendly alternatives to coal win because thousands of jobs in mining could be jeopardized!
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Old 26th August 2017, 04:04 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
or at least are sufficiently supporting of Nazi, white supremacist or racist causes that they're willing to allow a President and his administration to support Nazis, white supremacists and racists without a peep.
What choice do they have? If they criticize Trump they become RHINOs who are tacitly admitting that Hillary was right. That would be political suicide, so the only option is to remain silent and hope the problem goes away without their help.

Which is fine by me. The longer they hold off the worse it gets for them. Now the Republican party is undeniably linked to racism and Nazism - and all those apologists who denied it have to eat their words. Beautiful!

I was worried that the Trump Train might be slowing down, but this week has shown that it still has a full head of steam...
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Old 26th August 2017, 04:47 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I think there's nothing that is more of a clear identifier of a "moderate" in American terms (meaning four metres right of center in UK terms) than the number of people who have held out hope for the various reprehensible individuals discussed and then appointed by Trump. Hell, we had Democrats in this sub-forum who were cheering on Pence for being a sane influence. Pence!!?? Old school misogynist homophobe.



Ditto the military men. The military brass, almost to a man, are hard line paranoid militarist conservatives. Flynn's going to bring some order? Yeah, like he did at Homeland Security where he enforced the letter of the law to the point of locking up and tossing out? He's a foul right wing bastage like McMaster and like the Mad Dog.



The fact that each of them has sat dumbfounded and done nothing (like handing in a resignation) through Trump's support of the uber right should tell us something. (Oh, and ditto all the unnamed members of the administration who leak to the news with each passing ****-up, how they've known he was like this but thought he'd do a better job of not shooting of his orange mouth in public! WTF, people? You've known this and you stay around hoping he'll hide his bigotry, misogyny, misanthropy? For what? Why, for the world you hope to build! Make America Great Again as it was under the robber barons of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.)


If you're a General who wants to run a military police state, its wise to have a pocket Hitler under your control to act as a puppet.
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Old 26th August 2017, 05:17 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
True, but I find this both good news and potentially alarming as well. If Trump can be influenced in this way it's good news that someone is taking reins and will begin feeding him credible information. The alarming news is that this person will now potentially hold the reins of the presidency.

McHrozni
Having a shadow president isn't great but at this point, what choice do we have?
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Old 26th August 2017, 05:19 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
IMO the military men in the Trump Administration have been given way too much credit for being honourable warriors attempting to curtail the President's worst excesses. They aren't, they are willing accomplices in his right-wing agenda and are wholly on board with his policies.

The "honourable warrior" is a much of a lie as the "successful deal-maker"
Yep.
Since Trump is a little mean closet Nazi, as we learned lately (if we had not known all along), the are Nazi enablers.
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Old 26th August 2017, 05:19 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
If you're a General who wants to run a military police state, its wise to have a pocket Hitler under your control to act as a puppet.
That never works. The pocket Hitler gets out of your pocket. I doubt very much Kelly wants to run a police state. I expect he's just trying to keep the essential functions of government on the rails.
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Old 26th August 2017, 05:26 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
If you're a General who wants to run a military police state, its wise to have a pocket Hitler under your control to act as a puppet.
We all remember how that plan worked out with the original late-1932 pocket Hitler.
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Old 26th August 2017, 08:02 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Which is fine by me. The longer they hold off the worse it gets for them. Now the Republican party is undeniably linked to racism and Nazism - and all those apologists who denied it have to eat their words
I haven't seen much of this and don't expect to. The racist right will continue to call the GOP home and non-racist Republicans will continue to insist that the racists are a minuscule, irrelevant fringe. I see no reason at all why this would change.
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Old 26th August 2017, 09:28 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
We Might have some comic relief via Gorka.
The White House is saying he did not resign but was "removed from office" Gorka is insisting he resigned.
In other words a Textbook "You Can't Fire Me, I Quit" scenario.
CNN reported there is Gorka is already giving interviews to the alt.right crowd and basically trashing everybody in the White House including Trump. This could be fun.
More evidence that Trump is no Hitler. There was none of this griping from the sidelines after the Night of the Long Knives.
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Old 26th August 2017, 09:40 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I think the response will be awful, so he'll blame the guy that runs FEMA.

Oh wait. Nobody runs FEMA. What could possibly go wrong
News media keeps hinting that no FEMA resources were prepositioned.
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Old 26th August 2017, 09:48 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
If you're a General who wants to run a military police state, its wise to have a pocket Hitler under your control to act as a puppet.
A pocket Mussolini is a better choice, to my mind. Which brings us back to Trump ...
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Old 26th August 2017, 11:12 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Well yes, it's clear that almost every senior GOP representative and official, the vast majority of GOP members and the overwhelming majority of GOP supporters are Nazis, white supremacists or racists (or some combination thereof) - or at least are sufficiently supporting of Nazi, white supremacist or racist causes that they're willing to allow a President and his administration to support Nazis, white supremacists and racists without a peep.
The GOP should look at what happened to the Conservatives in Germany when they made a deal with Hitler under the illusion they could somehow "manage" him........
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Old 26th August 2017, 11:28 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I think he'd like a post like king where he can attend daily rallies of people singing his praises, he gets a fancy title, a ****-load of money, all the adulation he can handle, the right to rule by decree (as long as someone else takes the blame when one of his decrees backfires) and the ability for his children to assume the post.
That's what happened to the Roman republic, of course. After a series of corrupt populists destroyed the integrity of the state, it ended up as a hereditary or adoptive monarchy, later often consisting of complete lunatics or degenerate voluptuaries.

Is the USA intending to install an insane degenerate as a monarch right from the start?
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Old 26th August 2017, 11:34 AM   #100
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I am predicting that within a year either Trump will be out of office, or the US will be in a upheavel that will make the Sixties look like a Sunday School picnic.
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Old 26th August 2017, 12:31 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am predicting that within a year either Trump will be out of office, or the US will be in a upheavel that will make the Sixties look like a Sunday School picnic.


My money is on him replaced Pence with Ivanka and then resigning.
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Old 26th August 2017, 12:37 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
More evidence that Trump is no Hitler. There was none of this griping from the sidelines after the Night of the Long Knives.
It's not that he wouldn't do a Night of the Long Knives, it's that the institutions of intelligence and security won't go along with him. In a way I find all this comforting. The courts are working, the Congress (even his own party) and the institutions of government are all working to keep The Hair in check. The FBI is still supporting the Russia Probe. The Intelligence Community is still saying Russia supported Trump. The DOJ, headed by a confirmed bigot is still sending agents and prosecutors to Charlottesville. It's not perfect but the checks and balances seem to be working and the biggest check that's working is that the institutions of government are bigger and more powerful than the people who have stewardship of them.
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Old 26th August 2017, 01:00 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by TheSupermeerkat View Post
My money is on him replaced Pence with Ivanka and then resigning.
I, for one, think Ivanka would be a much better President.
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Old 26th August 2017, 01:01 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
The racist right will continue to call the GOP home and non-racist Republicans will continue to insist that the racists are a minuscule, irrelevant fringe. I see no reason at all why this would change.
The difference now is that they can't say it with a straight face, and by continuing to deny it they become a part of it. This will cause these 'non-racist' Republicans to be marginalized, because the rest of us will not tolerate it. Either moderate Republicans kick the racists out, or they face shrinking party membership as truly non-racist republicans become ex republicans.

Almost no Republicans wanted Trump, but they acquiesced because he was their only path to victory. I bet many of them are now ruing that decision. The beast is turning their own unspoken prejudices against them. But they can't call him a RHINO, and they can't object to what he is doing without themselves being called RHINOs. So they only have two choices - sit back and watch Trump continue to erode support for their party, or change the party into something better that more people can support.

Right now it might not look like it, but political parties do change - sometimes dramatically. Trump is pushing the Republican party to breaking point. If they don't get him under control soon (and I hope they don't) the changes could be very dramatic.
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Old 26th August 2017, 01:07 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The GOP should look at what happened to the Conservatives in Germany when they made a deal with Hitler under the illusion they could somehow "manage" him........
I wouldn't call them conservatives; that gives the idea that they were somehow democrats. Hugenberg's DNVP and Franz von Papen - who had been kicked out of the catholic Center Party - were antidemocratic authoritarians.

Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
It's not that he wouldn't do a Night of the Long Knives, it's that the institutions of intelligence and security won't go along with him. In a way I find all this comforting. The courts are working, the Congress (even his own party) and the institutions of government are all working to keep The Hair in check. The FBI is still supporting the Russia Probe. The Intelligence Community is still saying Russia supported Trump. The DOJ, headed by a confirmed bigot is still sending agents and prosecutors to Charlottesville. It's not perfect but the checks and balances seem to be working and the biggest check that's working is that the institutions of government are bigger and more powerful than the people who have stewardship of them.
The one thing that the Orange Führer has failed to do to be a successful Nazi is to establish his own storm troopers. The relatively few men that turned up at Charlottesville don't cut it for that.
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Old 26th August 2017, 02:27 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by TheSupermeerkat View Post
My money is on him replaced Pence with Ivanka and then resigning.
Can a President actually fire the vice-President?

Norm
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Old 26th August 2017, 02:37 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Can a President actually fire the vice-President?

Norm
No. A Vice President can only be removed against their will by the same impeachment process as a President. Also, the President has the power to appoint a replacement but that replacement would have to be confirmed by Congress - the whole Congress as opposed to just the Senate, as is the case with other presidential appointments.

ETA: The reason for this is that, despite the frequent assertion that people only vote for the President, whatever an individual voter's intentions they are voting for the Vice President as well. Thus, the VP is just as elected as the President.

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Old 26th August 2017, 02:45 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Can a President actually fire the vice-President?

Norm
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
No. A Vice President can only be removed against their will by the same impeachment process as a President. Also, the President has the power to appoint a replacement but that replacement would have to be confirmed by Congress - the whole Congress as opposed to just the Senate, as is the case with other presidential appointments.

ETA: The reason for this is that, despite the frequent assertion that people only vote for the President, whatever an individual voter's intentions they are voting for the Vice President as well. Thus, the VP is just as elected as the President.
I wonder if Trump actually knows that!
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Old 26th August 2017, 02:48 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
The one thing that the Orange Führer has failed to do to be a successful Nazi is to establish his own storm troopers. The relatively few men that turned up at Charlottesville don't cut it for that.
Trump looks like a monstrous aberration that the US political system accidentally churned out of its own innards in a moment of malfunction occasioned by stress.

I don't think Trump's advent is the result of the US going all fascist. Nazi style institutions and machinery are not in place; nor do I believe that Trump has the skills or inclination to install them. If the GOP bosses were really intent on a fascist putsch, a mentally-disorganised buffoon like that is the last person they'd choose to conduct the operation.
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Old 26th August 2017, 03:02 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
The difference now is that they can't say it with a straight face, and by continuing to deny it they become a part of it. This will cause these 'non-racist' Republicans to be marginalized, because the rest of us will not tolerate it. Either moderate Republicans kick the racists out, or they face shrinking party membership as truly non-racist republicans become ex republicans.

Almost no Republicans wanted Trump, but they acquiesced because he was their only path to victory. I bet many of them are now ruing that decision. The beast is turning their own unspoken prejudices against them. But they can't call him a RHINO, and they can't object to what he is doing without themselves being called RHINOs. So they only have two choices - sit back and watch Trump continue to erode support for their party, or change the party into something better that more people can support.

Right now it might not look like it, but political parties do change - sometimes dramatically. Trump is pushing the Republican party to breaking point. If they don't get him under control soon (and I hope they don't) the changes could be very dramatic.
I am, I think, a bit more cynical. I think the more likely result is that they just ride it out until Trump is gone then distance themselves from him after the fact. Obviously that might go differently if, say, Mueller's report is especially damning or something like that. If Trump just keeps doing what he's doing I don't expect him to win a second term but I can't see the GOP dropping him either.
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Old 26th August 2017, 04:10 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I wonder if Trump actually knows that!
One of my biggest fears is that The PDJT will learn what he can do, and abuse those powers to maximum effect.
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Old 26th August 2017, 04:17 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
That's what happened to the Roman republic, of course. After a series of corrupt populists destroyed the integrity of the state, it ended up as a hereditary or adoptive monarchy, later often consisting of complete lunatics or degenerate voluptuaries.



Is the USA intending to install an insane degenerate as a monarch right from the start?


I think a "King Lear" path is more likely. The moment a monarchy is a possibility his kids are going to make the Tudors look like a collection of pacifists.
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Old 26th August 2017, 04:25 PM   #113
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Wasn't it Mark Twain who said, "As soon as anyone decides that they'll go into politics, that should automatically bar them from ever entering politics"?
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Old 26th August 2017, 04:36 PM   #114
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Quote:
As Joseph Arpaio’s federal case headed toward trial this past spring, President Trump wanted to act to help the former Arizona county sheriff who had become a campaign-trail companion and a partner in their crusade against illegal immigration.

The president asked Attorney General Jeff Sessions whether it would be possible for the government to drop the criminal case against Arpaio, but was advised that would be inappropriate, according to three people with knowledge of the conversation.

After talking with Sessions, Trump decided to let the case go to trial, and if Arpaio was convicted, he could grant clemency.

So the president waited, all the while planning to issue a pardon if Arpaio was found in contempt of court for defying a federal judge’s order to stop detaining people merely because he suspected them of being undocumented immigrants. Trump was, in the words of one associate, “gung-ho about it.”

“We knew the president wanted to do this for some time now and had worked to prepare for whenever the moment may come,” said one White House official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the action.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...9f5_story.html

To say that it would be inappropriate for Trump to order the DoJ to stop prosecuting Arpaio is an incredible understatement. The mere fact that Trump entertained the idea shows his complete disregard for the rule of law.

It's cronyism and favoritism at its finest and, considering that Trump has embraced nepotism to a degree unheard of a national government among developed western countries, it shouldn't be surprising.
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Last edited by Arcade22; 26th August 2017 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 26th August 2017, 04:40 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
One of my biggest fears is that The PDJT will learn what he can do, and abuse those powers to maximum effect.

Too late. It's already started.
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Old 26th August 2017, 04:46 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...9f5_story.html

To say that it would be inappropriate for Trump to order the DoJ to stop prosecuting Arpaio is an incredible understatement. The mere fact that Trump entertained the idea shows his complete disregard for the rule of law.

<snip>

I have to say that I don't see a great deal of difference between trying to stop the prosecution at the time it is going on, and deciding while the prosecuting is going on that he was going to pardon Arpaio regardless, which is for all practical purposes the same thing. It isn't like the conviction is going to interfere with Arpaio's employment prospects, and there wasn't all that much chance he would have ever been incarcerated.

Not much to choose from.
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Old 26th August 2017, 05:05 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I have to say that I don't see a great deal of difference between trying to stop the prosecution at the time it is going on, and deciding while the prosecuting is going on that he was going to pardon Arpaio regardless, which is for all practical purposes the same thing.
I disagree.

For better or worse, the power of a president to pardon is pretty much absolute.

Like it or not it's a part of the process - very different than obstructing justice before the fact.
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Old 26th August 2017, 05:08 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I have to say that I don't see a great deal of difference between trying to stop the prosecution at the time it is going on, and deciding while the prosecuting is going on that he was going to pardon Arpaio regardless, which is for all practical purposes the same thing.
It has to do with transparency and accountability. Pardoning Arpaio is by itself a testament to Trump's favoritism and cronyism but it would've been a whole lot of worse if he'd effectively done the same thing in secret.
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Old 26th August 2017, 05:17 PM   #119
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Has the President said anything about Harvey yet?
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Old 26th August 2017, 05:28 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
Has the President said anything about Harvey yet?
Yes.
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