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Tags compulsion , deception , idiocy , Nobility , ratitude , violence

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Old 8th October 2017, 07:27 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
Does this mean that all carnivores are unnatural?
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
No, not all but some can be.

OK, which are natural, and which are unnatural?

And how about omnivores?
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Old 8th October 2017, 07:54 AM   #122
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How about cows? Are they natural? Where on earth are the wild cows?
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Old 8th October 2017, 08:07 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Which type of relationship we have with these animals? Symbiotic? If yes, which type out of below?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._relationships
Are you talking individual or Darwinian (reproductive)?
Killing and eating an animal isn't very beneficial to it (unless you're talking about Douglas Adams' fictitious cow), but if it's tasty and nourishing, it might make you want to help its relatives reproduce. Are you a fan of Dawkins and The Selfish Gene?
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I AGREE

On the other hand, even some parasites seem to have certain beneficial effects on their host's immune system.
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Old 8th October 2017, 08:14 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
How about cows? Are they natural? Where on earth are the wild cows?
It is a point. Later. Many beings, artificially, inorganically, unnaturally or genetically modified need attention for the purpose of this topic.
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Old 8th October 2017, 08:20 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
It is a point. Later. Many beings, artificially, inorganically, unnaturally or genetically modified need attention for the purpose of this topic.

The cows that are involved in agriculture have all been artificially, unnaturally or genetically modified. As are all other domesticated animals.
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Old 8th October 2017, 08:21 AM   #126
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Anyway, Kumar, which carnivores do you regard as natural, and which are unnatural?
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Old 8th October 2017, 08:30 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Are you talking individual or Darwinian (reproductive)?
Killing and eating an animal isn't very beneficial to it (unless you're talking about Douglas Adams' fictitious cow), but if it's tasty and nourishing, it might make you want to help its relatives reproduce. Are you a fan of Dawkins and The Selfish Gene?
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I AGREE

On the other hand, even some parasites seem to have certain beneficial effects on their host's immune system.
I tend to opt equanimity. It can lead to selflessness.
I think, you are talking about selfishness.
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Old 8th October 2017, 08:33 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Are you talking individual or Darwinian (reproductive)?
Killing and eating an animal isn't very beneficial to it (unless you're talking about Douglas Adams' fictitious cow), but if it's tasty and nourishing, it might make you want to help its relatives reproduce. Are you a fan of Dawkins and The Selfish Gene?
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I AGREE

On the other hand, even some parasites seem to have certain beneficial effects on their host's immune system.
Then they will be classified under other term of symbiosis.
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Old 8th October 2017, 08:45 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I tend to look both sides.
Clearly not. You're just buying into a lot of hypocritical nonsense and considering it to be a priori equivalent in merit to the reality of the food chain and the longstanding domestication of animals for any number of purposes. The overreactive pseudo-moralistic handwringing that seems to have informed your diatribe does not simply make history go away.

Quote:
So nothing is one sidedness from my POV.
Your view is entirely one-sided. You've subscribed to a moral view that has no basis in fact and whose end result would be biological absurdity.

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Agricultural can also be f two types...
We've already established that you are not an authority on agriculture.
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Old 8th October 2017, 08:51 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Clearly not. You're just buying into a lot of hypocritical nonsense and considering it to be a priori equivalent in merit to the reality of the food chain and the longstanding domestication of animals for any number of purposes. The overreactive pseudo-moralistic handwringing that seems to have informed your diatribe does not simply make history go away.



Your view is entirely one-sided. You've subscribed to a moral view that has no basis in fact and whose end result would be biological absurdity.



We've already established that you are not an authority on agriculture.
Btw, are you suggesting, if law permit, if humans are nourishing, tasty and serve as food, should/can they be also treated similarily?
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Old 8th October 2017, 08:59 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Btw, are you suggesting, if law permit, if humans are nourishing, tasty and serve as food, should/can they be also treated similarily?
Oh, nice one. Strawman argument and poisoning the well all in one go. There should be some kind of dishonest arguing award for work of this calibre.

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Old 8th October 2017, 08:59 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Btw, are you suggesting, if law permit, if humans are nourishing, tasty and serve as food, should/can they be also treated similarily?
No, so leave aside the straw man and address what I actually said.
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Old 8th October 2017, 09:28 AM   #133
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I capitalize Danish

Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Btw, are you suggesting, if law permit, if humans are nourishing, tasty and serve as food, should/can they be also treated similarily?
Oh Kumar Babu, this is very dynamical topic! Big land countrys like India bit especially can look into! Pakistan is hungry, India toomuch full. Can be/do solution lies in surplus Hindu? Vegetable raised diets, tasty oh my goodness damn yes. (Cut off tobacco & betel for some months prior of processing will make flavour.)

Dung-smeared idolators finally good for something, isn't it?
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Old 8th October 2017, 09:40 AM   #134
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Generalized advice for those wishing to extemporize on the dichotomy of natural and unnatural.....


chuck bruck sign 1.jpg
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Old 8th October 2017, 11:01 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Oh Kumar Babu, this is very dynamical topic! Big land countrys like India bit especially can look into! Pakistan is hungry, India toomuch full. Can be/do solution lies in surplus Hindu? Vegetable raised diets, tasty oh my goodness damn yes. (Cut off tobacco & betel for some months prior of processing will make flavour.)

Dung-smeared idolators finally good for something, isn't it?
Sorry, beyond my understanding.
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Old 8th October 2017, 11:08 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Sorry, beyond my understanding.
This is, not surprisingly, not a surprise.

I modestly suggest you look up the meaning of the word "irony" in your Funk and Wagnall's or wherever. And then, perhaps, for an example of the genre, I greatly suggest that you look up Jonathan Swift's famous essay "A Modest Proposal." However, do not do the latter until you have looked up and fully grasped the meaning of the former, as it would be most unfortunate if you took the latter as a book of recipes.
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Old 8th October 2017, 12:35 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
I capitalize Danish
I appreciate that!
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Old 8th October 2017, 05:35 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
What sort of shops do you frequent?
Well led!!!!!!!!
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Old 8th October 2017, 05:41 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
This is, not surprisingly, not a surprise.
I do not want complexing which can become lie. Truth is simple and simple truth seems that we are just one/our sided and they are not.
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Old 8th October 2017, 05:46 PM   #140
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I often wonder if the raw, live oysters I eat occasionally are aware of their fate and either approve or disapprove of being stabbed, dipped in a sauce, and swallowed whole. Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

A few years ago there were Restaurants in Melbourne where there were crayfish swimming around in tanks, and you could specifically pick out the one you wanted for lunch. Did they happily reside in the tank, and know that when Billy Bob was removed, that the cooked version of Billy Bob would be residing in my stomach 30 minutes later?

Somehow I don't think so.

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Old 8th October 2017, 06:16 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Btw, are you suggesting, if law permit, if humans are nourishing, tasty and serve as food, should/can they be also treated similarily?
Are you? You were the first to introduce the idea.
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Old 8th October 2017, 07:20 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I do not want complexing which can become lie. Truth is simple and simple truth seems that we are just one/our sided and they are not.
The truth is that you continue to conflate humans and animals. If you didn't want your absurdity pointed out to you, you shouldn't have brought up the topic.
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Old 8th October 2017, 07:22 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I do not want complexing which can become lie. Truth is simple and simple truth seems that we are just one/our sided and they are not.
No, sir. Some things are simple and some are not. The world is complicated and easy lies are not truer for being easy.
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Old 8th October 2017, 08:02 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
Are you? You were the first to introduce the idea.
No. I like non-violence with equanimity.
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Old 8th October 2017, 08:06 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
The truth is that you continue to conflate humans and animals. If you didn't want your absurdity pointed out to you, you shouldn't have brought up the topic.
I just want to understand emotional and natural values on this aspect on both sides.
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Old 8th October 2017, 08:26 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I just want to understand emotional and natural values on this aspect on both sides.
No. There's no evidence in this thread that you are seeking understanding. You've steeped yourself in radical animal rights advocates and you've uncritically accepted all their premises. Then you insist that your critics accept those same premises while you ignore their very well stated reasons why they will not do that. That is not seeking understanding; that is pure evangelism. If your goal is understanding, you need to stop conflating animals with humans. Are you ready to do that?
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Old 8th October 2017, 08:30 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
No. I like non-violence with equanimity.
Then will you please stipulate that humans-as-food is not an issue in this debate? Your entire argument is based on the faulty premise that there are operative similarities between animals and humans that make it immoral to breed animals for food. You've also inexplicably suggested it is immoral to raise crops for food, but that's too absurd to even think about. Your suggestion that we should accept the notion of humans as foodstuff simply extends that faulty premise.
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Old 8th October 2017, 09:54 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
No. There's no evidence in this thread that you are seeking understanding. You've steeped yourself in radical animal rights advocates and you've uncritically accepted all their premises. Then you insist that your critics accept those same premises while you ignore their very well stated reasons why they will not do that. That is not seeking understanding; that is pure evangelism. If your goal is understanding, you need to stop conflating animals with humans. Are you ready to do that?
This is not science forum. Moreover situation can be different at different place. Conditions prevailing at one place may not apply to other place. Even in peta link, basic needs are not denied.
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Old 8th October 2017, 09:57 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Then will you please stipulate that humans-as-food is not an issue in this debate? Your entire argument is based on the faulty premise that there are operative similarities between animals and humans that make it immoral to breed animals for food. You've also inexplicably suggested it is immoral to raise crops for food, but that's too absurd to even think about. Your suggestion that we should accept the notion of humans as foodstuff simply extends that faulty premise.

Yes, it is not an issue of debate butTruth should be applicable universally. If we accept, pain and violence are odd, we should accept it with equanimity. Yes in selfish interests, might can become right.
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Last edited by Kumar; 8th October 2017 at 10:00 PM. Reason: correct
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Old 8th October 2017, 10:07 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
This is not science forum.
Among many other things, yes it is. Despite the fact that you've chosen to raise the issue as a matter of "Religion and Philosophy," science does not go away just because you've choosen not to pay attention to it.

Quote:
Moreover situation can be different at different place.
I'm not talking about conditions elsewhere. I'm talking about conditions here, where you claim to be here to share information and gain understanding, but instead you have just swallowed the self-indulgent nonsense of a group well known for its hypocrisy and continue to insist that we must accept it as fact.

You continue to conflate humans and animals. Will you renounce that presumption in order to gain understanding?
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Old 8th October 2017, 10:19 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Yes, it is not an issue of debate butTruth should be applicable universally.
No, your desire to simplify away important differences does not somehow magically equate to "truth." You stipuluated, but then continued the same debate on the same point. Look up what it means to stipulate. You are trying on several fronts to equate animals with humans, but you provide no evidence that this is so.

Quote:
If we accept, pain and violence are odd, we should accept it with equanimity.
No. You've simply declared -- without any knowledge or experience -- that agriculture is tantamount to pain and violence.

Quote:
Yes in selfish interests, might can become right.
Gibberish.
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Old 8th October 2017, 10:25 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Yes, it is not an issue of debate butTruth should be applicable universally.

In your immediately preceding post, only three minutes before, you implied that it doesn't matter whether or not your premises are true because "this is not science forum". That is not consistent with stating that "truth should be applicable universally".
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Old 8th October 2017, 11:01 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
This is not science forum. Moreover situation can be different at different place. Conditions prevailing at one place may not apply to other place. Even in peta link, basic needs are not denied.
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Yes, it is not an issue of debate butTruth should be applicable universally. If we accept, pain and violence are odd, we should accept it with equanimity. Yes in selfish interests, might can become right.
One thing is not like the other.
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Old 9th October 2017, 12:37 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
No, your desire to simplify away important differences does not somehow magically equate to "truth." You stipuluated, but then continued the same debate on the same point. Look up what it means to stipulate. You are trying on several fronts to equate animals with humans, but you provide no evidence that this is so.



No. You've simply declared -- without any knowledge or experience -- that agriculture is tantamount to pain and violence.



Gibberish.
Both are live beings. Human is also animal. Both feel pain. Both should have right to life. Many such.
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Old 9th October 2017, 12:40 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
One thing is not like the other.
Yes, so many different truths.
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Old 9th October 2017, 12:52 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Yes, so many different truths.

Some of your "truths" are lies. Where they contradict each other, for example your statements that truth should be "applicable universally", and "limited to this forum only", at least one of them must be false.
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Old 9th October 2017, 02:07 AM   #157
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Theory of Relativity--Special and General.
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Old 9th October 2017, 02:35 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Theory of Relativity--Special and General.
Oh, this should be good. Go on, Kumar, let's hear what you think you're trying to say here.

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Old 9th October 2017, 02:37 AM   #159
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? General is all your family, special is when you have the hots for your sister in law.
(This is an example only, I don't have a brother.)
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Old 9th October 2017, 03:02 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Theory of Relativity--Special and General.
What does this have to do with the rights and wrongs of slaughtering animals for food?
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