Continuation Possible Scientific Foundations of Homeopathy, Part 2

[Kumar]

One more aspect, we may need to check: In view of SR can also be a natural healing méchanism, whether it can also revert cancer cells to become normal cells? Actually, clearing killed cells in mass can lead tó heavy need of body cleaning mechanism which otherwise can also be quite harmful. So body def. Mechnism may not opt it till all other possibilities are exhausted. Since these béing self but abnormal cells, bódy def. can try it. DNA repair mech. well exists in our body.

Continued from here.

Posted By:kmortis

[bruto]

Originally Posted by Kumar

One more aspect, we may need to check: In view of SR can also be a natural healing méchanism, whether it can also revert cancer cells to become normal cells? Actually, clearing killed cells in mass can lead tó heavy need of body cleaning mechanism which otherwise can also be quite harmful. So body def. Mechnism may not opt it till all other possibilities are exhausted. Since these béing self but abnormal cells, bódy def. can try it. DNA repair mech. well exists in our body.

Study cells much, do you? How about finding out even a little bit about how cells work and then getting back to us.

[halleyscomet]

Originally Posted by Kumar

One more aspect, we may need to check: In view of SR can also be a natural healing méchanism, whether it can also revert cancer cells to become normal cells?

First, show me examples of cancerous cells reverting to "normal" cells. Then we can talk about if your SR, whatever that's supposed to be, can play a role.

Without proof the phenomenon actually exists, discussing if a certain thing can cause said phenomenon is like debating the odor of unicorn farts.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by halleyscomet

Without proof the phenomenon actually exists, discussing if a certain thing can cause said phenomenon is like debating the odor of unicorn farts.

You do realise that you're in a thread about "possible scientific foundations of homeopathy", don't you?

[halleyscomet]

Originally Posted by Mojo

You do realise that you're in a thread about "possible scientific foundations of homeopathy", don't you?

Yes, I realize I'm complaining about OP discussing the theoretical smell of unicorn farts in a thread that's about the OP theorizing about the methane emissions of the Loch Ness monster and if they go up or down when the monster eats a Yeti.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by bruto

Study cells much, do you? How about finding out even a little bit about how cells work and then getting back to us.

I shall be happy to learn from you, whatever I am indicating. Please teach.

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by Kumar

I shall be happy to learn from you, whatever I am indicating. Please teach.

You need to stop derailing the thread and learn this irrelevant topic elsewhere.

[Steve001]

Originally Posted by halleyscomet

First, show me examples of cancerous cells reverting to "normal" cells. Then we can talk about if your SR, whatever that's supposed to be, can play a role.

Without proof the phenomenon actually exists, discussing if a certain thing can cause said phenomenon is like debating the odor of unicorn farts.

I don't have a shread of evidence to back this up but I know they smell like cotton candy.

[halleyscomet]

Originally Posted by Steve001

I don't have a shread of evidence to back this up but I know they smell like cotton candy.

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by Steve001

I don't have a shread of evidence to back this up but I know they smell like cotton candy.

Now that's a scientific fact: there's no real evidence for it, but it is scientific fact.

Dave

[Porpoise of Life]

Originally Posted by Kumar

One more aspect, we may need to check: In view of SR can also be a natural healing méchanism, whether it can also revert cancer cells to become normal cells? Actually, clearing killed cells in mass can lead tó heavy need of body cleaning mechanism which otherwise can also be quite harmful. So body def. Mechnism may not opt it till all other possibilities are exhausted. Since these béing self but abnormal cells, bódy def. can try it. DNA repair mech. well exists in our body.

Continued from here.

Posted By:kmortis

Even if, if if if, this has any basis in reality... how does that prove homeopathy?

You are basically admitting that homeopathy is a bunch of lies with no basis in reality, and trying to find a mechanism for the alleged effects of homeopathy without homeopathy needing to be true.

ETA: Finding some bordering-on-magical pseudo placebo ultra self healing mechanism would be proof for homeopathy in the same way that it would be proof of faith healing, reiki, crystal magic, and so on.
That is: not at all... even if the mechanism you postulate exists (and you have no evidence at all), then the causal link to homeopathy would still need to be established in order to claim that it's a scientific mechanism for homeopathy to work.

[Kumar]

It is indicated on many sites on google search. One I gave previously and another:
www.cancertutor.com
I do not know, how much these are trusted. Anyway that is a secondary thóught on SR. Primary is, cancer is cured also by SR. Whether it kill or revert can cells is secondary thought and need be be understood very carefully and dynamically. If altered interacellular environment is corrected, probably it may also lead to such revertion.

[halleyscomet]

Originally Posted by Kumar

It is indicated on many sites on google search. One I gave previously and another:
www.cancertutor.com
I do not know, how much these are trusted. Anyway that is a secondary thóught on SR. Primary is, cancer is cured also by SR. Whether it kill or revert can cells is secondary thought and need be be understood very carefully and dynamically. If altered interacellular environment is corrected, probably it may also lead to such revertion.

There you go again, dowsing for unicorn farts.

You've still got jack squat by way of evidence.

What is "SR" anyway? The acronym is a bit vague: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR

[fagin]

No Kumar. Cancer is not 'cured' by spontaneous remission (assuming that's what SR means - stop being lazy.)

Spontaneous remission may occur in a very small percentage of patients, but it's not a cure, and never will be.

[Porpoise of Life]

Originally Posted by fagin

No Kumar. Cancer is not 'cured' by spontaneous remission (assuming that's what SR means - stop being lazy.)

Spontaneous remission may occur in a very small percentage of patients, but it's not a cure, and never will be.

He's trying to assert that homeopathy works, because most patients who are given homeopathic cancer treatment die, but the same tiny percentage of people as that of those who are untreated experience spontaneous remission?

That would be funny, if it wasn't so tragically stupid.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life

He's trying to assert that homeopathy works, because most patients who are given homeopathic cancer treatment die, but the same tiny percentage of people as that of those who are untreated experience spontaneous remission?

That would be funny, if it wasn't so tragically stupid.

Ít is meant to pollute and derail the thread. Pls take care.

[fagin]

Why would you want to pollute and derail your own thread, Kumar?

[bruto]

Originally Posted by Kumar

It is indicated on many sites on google search. One I gave previously and another:
www.cancertutor.com
I do not know, how much these are trusted. Anyway that is a secondary thóught on SR. Primary is, cancer is cured also by SR. Whether it kill or revert can cells is secondary thought and need be be understood very carefully and dynamically. If altered interacellular environment is corrected, probably it may also lead to such revertion.

Maybe in the homeopathic world the dilution of knowledge to nothing at all makes ignorance wisdom, but elsewhere it does not.

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Ít is meant to pollute and derail the thread

This thread is Possible Scientific Foundations of Homeopathy, Part 2
You are polluting and diluting your own thread so that it is totally useless - just like homeopathy. Whoops that means your post is a rare on-topic, not derailing post !

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life

He's trying to assert that homeopathy works, because most patients who are given homeopathic cancer treatment die, but the same tiny percentage of people as that of those who are untreated experience spontaneous remission?

That would be funny, if it wasn't so tragically stupid.

I've seen an apologist for homoeopathy claim that the 1835 Nuremberg Salt Test was a successful demonstration of homoeopathy because subjects in the group given the remedy exhibited proving symptoms, even if subjects in the control group did as well.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by bruto

Maybe in the homeopathic world the dilution of knowledge to nothing at all makes ignorance wisdom, but elsewhere it does not.

How? Elsewhere, is it 100%? Í have very bad experiances with 98/99% when 1 become 100 and we cd nt even claim, blame or protest.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by Mojo

I've seen an apologist for homoeopathy claim that the 1835 Nuremberg Salt Test was a successful demonstration of homoeopathy because subjects in the group given the remedy exhibited proving symptoms, even if subjects in the control group did as well.

It is not matter of discussion here now. Some odds and cherry pickings supporting own perception or interests, do not make sense.

[fuelair]

Originally Posted by Kumar

I shall be happy to learn from you, whatever I am indicating. Please teach.

Take classes - it is not our job to teach you things you can easily look up on the internet or find tutors for in pretty much any country on Earth!!!!!!. Including proper English speaking/writing/grammar.................

[halleyscomet]

Originally Posted by Kumar

I shall be happy to learn from you, whatever I am indicating. Please teach.

Start with some classes on English as a Second Language. You need professional help from a trained educator.

[halleyscomet]

A new cancer theory emerges:

https://imgur.com/gallery/qwXo4

(Warning, read to the end, be prepared to be kicked in the feels. The comment by ProphetTenebrae states the new cancer theory being proposed in this thread.)

[Kumar]

Quote:

Physiological regulation[edit]
The immune system is involved in many aspects of physiological regulation in the body. The immune system interacts intimately with other systems, such as the endocrine [101][102] and the nervous [103][104][105] systems. The immune system also plays a crucial role in embryogenesis (development of the embryo), as well as in tissue repair and regeneration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system

I feel, members here are not able to discuss scope of above. Can anyone better explain it?

[fagin]

Well, if the members here can't explain it to your satisfaction, you can't understand Wiki (and follow and study the huge amount of links at the bottom), and you are some how hoping a random 'non member' will be able to post a nice simple treatise you can understand (hint, non members can't post), I think you're out of luck.

[fagin]

Or this

Originally Posted by fuelair

Take classes - it is not our job to teach you things you can easily look up on the internet or find tutors for in pretty much any country on Earth!!!!!!. Including proper English speaking/writing/grammar.................

Originally Posted by halleyscomet

Start with some classes on English as a Second Language. You need professional help from a trained educator.

[Dancing David]

Originally Posted by Kumar

I feel, members here are not able to discuss scope of above. Can anyone better explain it?

Maybe you should cite the actual papers listed in the foot notes instead of just mentioning them.
Did you follow the footnotes? Which one do you wish to discuss and which parts of it?

https://academic.oup.com/edrv/articl...dFrom=fulltext
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...67569988912893
http://science.sciencemag.org/content/334/6052/47
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4871617
http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/...l/nn.4496.html

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by Kumar

I feel, members here are not able to discuss scope of above. Can anyone better explain it?

We feel that insulting other members is not polite. Members are able to discuss the scope of irrelevant topics but not in this thread.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by Dancing David

Maybe you should cite the actual papers listed in the foot notes instead of just mentioning them.
Did you follow the footnotes? Which one do you wish to discuss and which parts of it?

https://academic.oup.com/edrv/articl...dFrom=fulltext
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...67569988912893
http://science.sciencemag.org/content/334/6052/47
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4871617
http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/...l/nn.4496.html

Thanks. I shall study it. However what these link in brief suggest about immunesystem link with physiological regulation--either directly with different systems of body or vai endocrine and neurological systems?

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Thanks. I shall study it. However what these link in brief suggest about immunesystem link with physiological regulation--either directly with different systems of body or vai endocrine and neurological systems?

Perhaps you can find out what they say by reading them.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by Mojo

Perhaps you can find out what they say by reading them.

That I shall do. But when those are quoted, I felt casually, probably that poster may be understanding these and so can help. Just casual.

[fagin]

Perhaps if you were less 'casual' about knowledge, you'd actually start understanding stuff Kumar.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by Dancing David

Maybe you should cite the actual papers listed in the foot notes instead of just mentioning them.
Did you follow the footnotes? Which one do you wish to discuss and which parts of it?....

......2

Yes now I read links given by you. Thanks. These suggest that there is a link between Immune system and nNeuro-endocrine systems as mentioned in main article. I think it is both side regulation i.e Immune system can modulate these systems and also these systems can modulate Immune system. Since these are very important and basic systems, so may also modulate other body systems via these systems. Am I ok?

[Kumar]

Now the other thought:

"The immune system also plays a crucial role in embryogenesis (development of the embryo), as well as in tissue repair and regeneration."

Can above in bold letters suggest that probably, Immune system can also revert cancer cells to normal cells by such tissue repair and regeneration property?

[fagin]

Kumar, I know you are ignoring me, probably with good reason as frankly all I really do is take the piss, which is too easy really with all the crap you post, but listen this time.

I have stage 4 cancer, started in the bowel, and has moved to my liver, lungs and probably a few other places by now. (I'm avoiding technical terms.) Your posts banging on about homeopathy (which is bollocks by the way) and things you just don't have a clue about, and probably never will, like spontaneous remission and the immune system, which to understand properly take years of medical training and a solid grasp of science, both of which you lack (understatement of the year?) are quite disrespectful, both to people who are dealing with cancer, and the professionals helping us, from oncologists, through dietitians and all the support staff like radiologists, nurses, and researchers trying to find cures and treatments for what is a very complex series of diseases.
Sitting on your little ivory tower mountaintop, banging on about odds, religion, your woeful interpretation of the laws of nature will help no one, least of all yourself.
Get a job, or a hobby within your capabilities - I suggest basket weaving or something.
Bottom line is I am going to die relatively soon. Might be a year, hopefully will be a bit longer. The chances of me making it through the next five are slim to remote. I'm doing my best, as are all the amazing people I deal with on an almost daily basis, to make it as long as possible. They are real, as am I. Your contribution to medicine is nil, nada, or even less if that's possible as your faith in garbage like homeopathy and all the other nonsense you bang on about can get people killed, or take time away from them that real medicine could give them.
So I respectfully ask you to stop it.
If not I'll continue to take the piss, and even that is probably more than your ideas are worth. You can ignore me (I stand by what I said about your daughter) but I am right, and you will be forever wrong.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Now the other thought:

"The immune system also plays a crucial role in embryogenesis (development of the embryo), as well as in tissue repair and regeneration."

Can above in bold letters suggest that probably, Immune system can also revert cancer cells to normal cells by such tissue repair and regeneration property?

No. As usual, you have it bass ackwards. Tissues are made of cells, not the other way round. Repairing tissues will not fix cells.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by Mojo

No. As usual, you have it bass ackwards. Tissues are made of cells, not the other way round. Repairing tissues will not fix cells.

Yes, how it can be repairing ànd regenératión of tissues without involvíng cells?

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Yes, how it can be repairing ànd regenératión of tissues without involvíng cells?

Tissue repair and regeneration involves growth and multiplication of cells. It is not something that happens inside the cells so as to be able to make cancerous cells non-cancerous. Remember what the basic problem with cancer cells is?