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Tags 2017 elections , Alabama elections , Alabama politics , roy moore

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Old 10th November 2017, 09:05 AM   #121
LTC8K6
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
So the fact that he's not a rapist means none of the allegations could be true? You could just as well argue that if the accusations were all lies, the women would have alleged much worse behavior.
I haven't said that the allegations aren't true...

I said that right now, I can't give them too much credibility and that maybe more women will come forward.
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Old 10th November 2017, 09:07 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It also seems odd that he went no further than her underwear if he was a sexual predator.
Quote:
She says that Moore drove her back to the same house after dark, and that before long she was lying on a blanket on the floor. She remembers Moore disappearing into another room and coming out with nothing on but “tight white” underwear.

She remembers that Moore kissed her, that he took off her pants and shirt, and that he touched her through her bra and underpants. She says that he guided her hand to his underwear and that she yanked her hand back.

“I wasn’t ready for that — I had never put my hand on a man’s penis, much less an erect one,” Corfman says.

She remembers thinking, “I don’t want to do this” and “I need to get out of here.” She says that she got dressed and asked Moore to take her home, and that he did.

...

She says that after their last encounter, Moore called again, but that she found an excuse to avoid seeing him.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...4a0_story.html
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Old 10th November 2017, 09:07 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Really? From what i can tell he wasn't married when he was hitting on any of the individuals in the post story. He married a 24 year old when he was 38 and the allegations occurred when he was in his "early 30's".
.....
Looks like you're right. Events happened in 1979, married in 1985. I guess it's all okay. (And his wife sounds like a prize, too.)
http://heavy.com/news/2017/09/roy-mo...e-kids-family/
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Old 10th November 2017, 09:10 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I haven't said that the allegations aren't true...

I said that right now, I can't give them too much credibility and that maybe more women will come forward.

Four have. How many do you need?
Quote:
Aside from Corfman, three other women interviewed by The Washington Post in recent weeks say Moore pursued them when they were between the ages of 16 and 18 and he was in his early 30s, episodes they say they found flattering at the time, but troubling as they got older. None of the three women say that Moore forced them into any sort of relationship or sexual contact.
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Old 10th November 2017, 09:20 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Four have. How many do you need?
The other three aren't the same at all, imo.

If it were just those three, it would be nothing to me...
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Old 10th November 2017, 09:22 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
What do you base that on?
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Same question as Bob.
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It's just my opinion.
Based on what , though ?

Does the same logic of time elapsed apply to Harvey Weinstein ? Bill Cosby ?

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It also seems odd that he went no further than her underwear if he was a sexual predator.
Yeah, odd thing to lie about, right ?
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Old 10th November 2017, 09:29 AM   #127
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Cosby and Weinstein have what appears to be long strings of accusations that extend to much more recent times and go much further than the Moore allegations.

Cosby has been tried, and presumably Weinstein will be.
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Old 10th November 2017, 09:29 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The other three aren't the same at all, imo.

If it were just those three, it would be nothing to me...
He had an established pattern of chasing teen-age girls when he was a 30-something assistant district attorney, and sometimes it went farther than others. All on the same continuum.
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Old 10th November 2017, 09:30 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Of course if more women do come forward, they're just jumping on the bandwagon with unsubstantiated "me too!" stories. It seems that you need exactly the right number of alleged victims.

Too few and it's ridiculous that so voracious a predator could have had so few victims, too many and it's ridiculous that he could have escaped detection for so long .

The allegations about Jimmy Saville didn't become public until after his death. Those about Rolf Harris until he was in his 80's. I don't think it's at all unreasonable that it could take 40 years until someone had the nerve to come forward.
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Old 10th November 2017, 09:38 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
He had an established pattern of chasing teen-age girls when he was a 30-something assistant district attorney, and sometimes it went farther than others. All on the same continuum.
Okay.

Why would that behavior stop?

Why did this talk amongst teenage girls not reach a lot more people at the time? that sort of thing has a way of spreading like a wildfire.

It seems like the sort of info a political rival would love to have and use to stop Moore from running for office or to get him removed?
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Old 10th November 2017, 09:44 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The other three aren't the same at all, imo.

If it were just those three, it would be nothing to me...
"Not the same at all"? What, because they were 2 or 3 years older than she was?

The MO is the same, the stories are the same, but because there is a 2 year difference in ages they "aren't the same at all?" That's silly.
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Old 10th November 2017, 09:49 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
"Not the same at all"? What, because they were 2 or 3 years older than she was?

The MO is the same, the stories are the same, but because there is a 2 year difference in ages they "aren't the same at all?" That's silly.
"None of the three women say that Moore forced them into any sort of relationship or sexual contact. "

The three were at or above the age of consent at the time, as well.
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Old 10th November 2017, 09:58 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post

Why did this talk amongst teenage girls not reach a lot more people at the time? that sort of thing has a way of spreading like a wildfire.
You could ask the same thing about the accusations against Saville, Rolf, Cosby, Hastert, Sandusky, Spacey and a million others. It is common for these things to not come out until decades after the fact.

As for the lack of repetition, his inner circle of supporters seems to think that it is normal to court 14 year old girls. If he stopped, it may just have been because he got married.
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Old 10th November 2017, 10:06 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Based on what , though ?

Does the same logic of time elapsed apply to Harvey Weinstein ? Bill Cosby ?

Yeah, odd thing to lie about, right ?
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Cosby and Weinstein have what appears to be long strings of accusations that extend to much more recent times and go much further than the Moore allegations.

Cosby has been tried, and presumably Weinstein will be.
I'm sorry you decided to focus on my poor examples, rather than actually discussing your reasoning.

Many other better examples are listed right above.

I've hilited the questions that appear to be more relevant to the discussion.

Additional;y, it would be nice if you can you expand on your reasoning ? For example, why would they all lie ? And why now ? Do you believe that the people they claim to have told about this decades ago, who corroborate their stories, are also lying ?
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Old 10th November 2017, 10:10 AM   #135
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Moore sounds like a member of the Jimmy Swaggert/Jim Baker school of Hypocritical Horndog Holy Rollers.
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Old 10th November 2017, 10:20 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Hutch View Post
Yep, those liberals like Governor Mark Sanford, Senator John Ensign, Representative Vito Fosarella, Newt Gingrich, Senator Larry Craig, and a few others...http://www.newnownext.com/19-republi...ndals/12/2016/

Hmmmmmm.....
But Conservapedia assured me they were all Democrats!
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Old 10th November 2017, 10:35 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Looks like you're right. Events happened in 1979, married in 1985. I guess it's all okay. (And his wife sounds like a prize, too.)
http://heavy.com/news/2017/09/roy-mo...e-kids-family/
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Four have. How many do you need?
From your first link linking to a tweet about the WaPo Story

Quote:
Washington Post with on-the-record child molestation accusation against Roy Moore, support by three additional account of inappropriate conduct with minors and 30 other sources.
30 other sources is quite a lot more
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:36 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
He had an established pattern of chasing teen-age girls when he was a 30-something assistant district attorney, and sometimes it went farther than others. All on the same continuum.
Quote:
“Wendy Miller says she was 14 and working as a Santa’s helper at the Gadsden Mall when Moore first approached her, and 16 when he asked her on dates, which her mother forbade.
“Debbie Wesson Gibson says she was 17 when Moore spoke to her high school civics class and asked her out on the first of several dates that did not progress beyond kissing.
“Gloria Thacker Deason says she was an 18-year-old cheerleader when Moore began taking her on dates that included bottles of Mateus Rosé wine. The legal drinking age in Alabama was 19.”
I don't see how him "chasing after teenage girls" like this is evidence of anything other than he can behave responsibly.

I mean he asked the mother of one for permission to date her daughter. Seriously who does that? If they are old enough to have sex then they are old enough to choose who they want to date on their own.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:38 AM   #139
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Roy Moore is a pervert.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:47 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Given Moore's political history, it's not credible that this did not come up long ago, imo.

Also, such behavior tends to be compulsive, so it seems unlikely that more recent incidents have not come to light.

Maybe they will...

But right now, I can't give this too much credibility.
Surprising maybe but the number of accusations of sexual assault in the movie industry many which are not being denied show that for whatever reason people do keep these things secret.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:51 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
Roy Moore is a pervert.
That's his least serious problem.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:58 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I don't see how him "chasing after teenage girls" like this is evidence of anything other than he can behave responsibly.

I mean he asked the mother of one for permission to date her daughter. Seriously who does that? If they are old enough to have sex then they are old enough to choose who they want to date on their own.
Body of work.

The man is a bible thumping moralist who believes he is on the scene to judge (literally in his case) other people's "immoral" behavior and is a homophobe to boot.

I don't wish the man any ill-will, I just wish a truck would run over his *********** head.
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Old 10th November 2017, 12:00 PM   #143
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Republicans: Bill Clinton preyed on a young intern, (I believe Monica was 23), it was perverse.

So Moore fondled a 14 yr old when he was 32, he didn't force her. Mary was a teenager when Jesus was born.

The hypocrisy train that knows no bounds keeps rolling down the tracks.
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Old 10th November 2017, 12:10 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
If they are old enough to have sex then they are old enough to choose who they want to date on their own.
Do you think 14 is old enough to have sex?
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Old 10th November 2017, 12:16 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Do you think 14 is old enough to have sex?
Check their posting history. Pretty much a single issue poster.
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Old 10th November 2017, 12:39 PM   #146
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On the local radio last night, a DJ said he was going to Play Roy Moore's new campaign song, and put on a recording of Maruice Chevallier singing "Thank Heaven For Little Girls". Nasty.
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Old 10th November 2017, 12:55 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
I'm sorry you decided to focus on my poor examples, rather than actually discussing your reasoning.

Many other better examples are listed right above.

I've hilited the questions that appear to be more relevant to the discussion.

Additional;y, it would be nice if you can you expand on your reasoning ? For example, why would they all lie ? And why now ? Do you believe that the people they claim to have told about this decades ago, who corroborate their stories, are also lying ?
Based on what I've read in the media.

People lie about odd things all the time.

Perhaps in a few more days more information will come to light about the incident with the 14 year old girl, or lack thereof.

Or maybe more recent incidents will come to light?

Moore was on thin ice in the election anyway.

I think if no more info comes forth, then this will remain a "they said/he said" case and it will probably damage Moore.
Moore will probably lose and we won't hear anything else about the incidents.
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Last edited by LTC8K6; 10th November 2017 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:00 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
You didn't answer the question asked.

Suppose he really did what is alleged. Still worth voting for?
Strange that logger is silent on this question.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:03 PM   #149
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Weren't the Repubs trying to defeat Moore in the primary? They wanted Strange. Trump campaigned for Strange.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:05 PM   #150
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Quote:
Trump warned the crowd that Moore would be vulnerable to losing to the Democratic candidate in the general election while Strange would sail through to victory.

“Roy has a very good chance of not winning in the general election,” Trump said. “Roy is going to have a hard time, but I will be backing him if he wins.”
Trump was prophetic...
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:12 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I see this from many on the left. An allegation that is no where near proved somehow makes what Clinton actually did seem insignificant. Got it.

Consenting adult, lol. It’s a classic case of a superior taking advantage. Not to mention some very credible women claiming the predator in chief raped them. This Roy Moore issue has no proof what so ever. Maybe that will change.
This is just weird.

Both men did some things that would generally be considered personal, and really not anyone else's business. Both men are also accused, without evidence beyond the accusations themselves, of having done some pretty bad stuff.

There's a lot of symmetry here.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:18 PM   #152
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Quote:
A meaningful % of my party are insisting nothing is real in a carefully research story with four on the record statements from victims.

In related news, a meaningful % of my party believed Hillary Clinton was part of a child cannibalism and sex ring in a pizza restaurant
https://twitter.com/TheRickWilson/st...38082576326656

I don't know who Rick Wilson is, but, yeah....
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:24 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
https://twitter.com/TheRickWilson/st...38082576326656

I don't know who Rick Wilson is, but, yeah....
I think it's safe to say he's not a fan of Trump.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_W...cal_consultant)
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:31 PM   #154
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Max Boot calls for the death of the Republican party.

Quote:
The key words here, echoed by Republican senators, are “if these allegations are true.” Well, of course, no one wants to see anyone punished for false allegations. But how is their truth or falsity to be established? It is too late for a court case, unless Moore is foolish enough to sue The Washington Post for libel — and that would take years to resolve. The Post account is full of detailed corroboration from 30 people, including the victims, who spoke on the record. Moore offers vague denials and non-sequiturs about how he is supposedly a devoted family man.

By treating this as a “mere allegation … from many years ago,” the Republican establishment is in effect giving Moore a pass — just as they gave Trump a pass after he confessed on videotape to sexual assault. So far only a few honorable Republicans, including Mitt Romney, John McCain and John Kasich, recognize that the presumption of innocence applies to criminal defendants, not political candidates.

This episode is the sorry culmination of two trends that have disfigured the conservative movement beyond all recognition: contempt for the facts and desire to win at all costs. Republicans are increasingly reliant on “alternative facts” manufactured by the likes of Fox News and Breitbart, which claim that global warming isn’t real and neither is the Russian hack of the Democratic National Committee. The real scandal, they tell us, is the Steele dossier paid for by the Democrats in an attempt to uncover Trump’s Russian connections. Or is it the evidence-free claim that Obama supposedly wiretapped Trump?*

In the final analysis, no indictment of their candidate will convince the faithful. As Trump once said, “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.” Or, more to the point, Roy Moore could molest a 14-year-old girl and not lose votes. Because for Republican partisans, their opponents are “the forces of evil,” and anything is preferable to that. Even Donald Trump. Even Roy Moore. So in ostensibly fighting evil, Republicans have become complicit in it.

This is a party that does not deserve to survive.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:32 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
https://twitter.com/TheRickWilson/st...38082576326656

I don't know who Rick Wilson is, but, yeah....
Does it make sense to call anyone except the 14 year old a "victim"? I haven't followed this closely, but my understanding is that all of the other women were above the legal age of consent, and that no non-consensual sex occurred.

So.....victim? Of what?

The 14 year old is, obviously, a separate case. Her allegations are indeed very serious.

ETA: I'm no fan of Moore, but I'm just interested in the way these things are spun.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 10th November 2017 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:38 PM   #156
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I find it odd that some think a man in his 30s going after teenagers is okay just because he didn't rape them and in some cases asked for parental permission.

Does this mean 30 something men can now flood Alabama and ask out 14 year olds? I suspect a great many will object when its their daughter that much older men are perving on.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:41 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I find it odd that some think a man in his 30s going after teenagers is okay just because he didn't rape them and in some cases asked for parental permission.

Does this mean 30 something men can now flood Alabama and ask out 14 year olds? I suspect a great many will object when its their daughter that much older men are perving on.
Amazing to see the party that wrote anti-trans bathroom bills to “protect young girls from predatory pedophiles” is now defending Roy Moore.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:43 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Does it make sense to call anyone except the 14 year old a "victim"? I haven't followed this closely, but my understanding is that all of the other women were above the legal age of consent, and that no non-consensual sex occurred.

So.....victim? Of what?

The 14 year old is, obviously, a separate case. Her allegations are indeed very serious.

ETA: I'm no fan of Moore, but I'm just interested in the way these things are spun.
One must also consider state laws vary. A 30 yr old with a 17 or younger is considered statutory rape in some states. Does that make a difference?

Also let's not leave out the fact Moore picked up this 14 yr old in the courthouse he worked in. That is unethical on its face. And he met her a block from her house, he didn't go to the door. That is pretty good evidence he knew better.

Just out of curiosity Meadmaker, if we went back to the old Bill Clinton threads, would we find you condemning Bill Clinton for his unethical consensual sex with a 23 yr old Monica?


Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Amazing to see the party that wrote anti-trans bathroom bills to “protect young girls from predatory pedophiles” is now defending Roy Moore.
That too ^.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 10th November 2017 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:43 PM   #159
Arcade22
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Do you think 14 is old enough to have sex?
I was referring to the other "victims" that were above the age of consent. Do try to keep up.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:46 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
I don't wish the man any ill-will, I just wish a truck would run over his *********** head.
Body of work.
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