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Tags 2016 elections , Clinton controversies , Democratic primaries , dnc , Donna Brazile , election controversies , hillary clinton

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Old 3rd November 2017, 08:01 AM   #1
The Big Dog
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Democrats express outrage over allegations of early party control for Clinton in 2016

Quote:
Donna Brazile, a former interim chairwoman of the party, says in a forthcoming book that an August 2015 agreement gave the Clinton campaign a measure of direct influence over the party’s finances and strategy, along with a say over staff decisions and consultation rights over issues like mailings, budgets and analytics.
We all certainly remember that Sanders' supporters claimed the DNC had the thumb on the scale for Hillary. Now it seems that the thumb was Hillary's.

It would be fair to say at this point that the 2016 Democratic Primary was flat out rigged:

Quote:
Ray Buckley, the chairman of New Hampshire’s Democratic Party, said that he first learned of the agreement while serving as DNC vice chair in 2016. “The day that Donna discovered this, she called me and I almost passed out,” Buckley said. “We were blatantly misled.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...381_story.html
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Old 3rd November 2017, 08:22 AM   #2
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CNN asked Senator Elizabeth Warren if Mrs Clinton's contest against Democratic rival Bernie Sanders was rigged, and she said: "Yes."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41850798

At long last, the truth comes out.

But lets not kid ourselves, Warren knew it all along and played nice.

"Mr Van Doren, I'm also from New York, a different part of New York. I'm happy that you made the statement, but I cannot agree with most of my colleagues. You see, I don't think an adult of your intelligence ought to be commended for simply, at long last, telling the truth."

Quiz Show
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Old 3rd November 2017, 08:32 AM   #3
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Elizabeth Warren says it was rigged:

"Yes."
That was Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren's response to a simple question asked by CNN's Jake Tapper Thursday night: "Senator, do you agree with the notion that (the 2016 Democratic primary) was rigged?"

I agree with Warren. Brazile's revelations are quite astounding. Of course, it is hard to tell how much of her story is simply ass-covering, "It was like that when I got here," and how much is revenge, and how much is the plain truth. And it may just be confirmation bias, but Brazile's story has the ring of truth to me.

They were probably doomed anyway, but I would say that this is the end of the super-delegates.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 08:39 AM   #4
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Trump weighs in:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...17546038923264

Hate to give Trump credit for anything, but I do chuckle a little bit every time he calls Elizabeth Warren "Pocahontas".
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Old 3rd November 2017, 08:41 AM   #5
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Since she was actively involved in rigging the debates, I'm not sure I would buy her being outraged, or even bothered by it. She lost her right to be offended by it when actively participated in it.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 08:48 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
We all certainly remember that Sanders' supporters claimed the DNC had the thumb on the scale for Hillary. Now it seems that the thumb was Hillary's.
Sanders was not and is not a Democrat. Why should he have gotten any support from them at all?

Quote:
It would be fair to say at this point that the 2016 Democratic Primary was flat out rigged:
No, it wouldn't. The only 'rigging' was Sanders pretending to be a Democrat so he could sponge off the DNC and steal votes from Hillary.

Not that I am complaining - if it wasn't for Sanders we wouldn't have Trump, and the US could still claim some respect. Those of us who hate America couldn't be happier!
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Old 3rd November 2017, 08:49 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Hate to give Trump credit for anything, but I do chuckle a little bit every time he calls Elizabeth Warren "Pocahontas".
Why?
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Old 3rd November 2017, 08:53 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
We all certainly remember that Sanders' supporters claimed the DNC had the thumb on the scale for Hillary. Now it seems that the thumb was Hillary's.
And?
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Old 3rd November 2017, 08:58 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Sanders was not and is not a Democrat. Why should he have gotten any support from them at all?

No, it wouldn't. The only 'rigging' was Sanders pretending to be a Democrat so he could sponge off the DNC and steal votes from Hillary.
....

Sanders was a candidate in the Democratic primaries. He expressed his views clearly, and it was up to the voters -- alone -- to decide whether he was a Democrat. The point is that Clinton was running the DNC and grabbing its money from the beginning.

Read Brazile's account:
Quote:
When I got back from a vacation in Martha’s Vineyard, I at last found the document that described it all: the Joint Fund-Raising Agreement between the DNC, the Hillary Victory Fund, and Hillary for America.

The agreement—signed by Amy Dacey, the former CEO of the DNC, and Robby Mook with a copy to Marc Elias—specified that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party’s finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff. The DNC also was required to consult with the campaign about all other staffing, budgeting, data, analytics, and mailings.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ks-2016-215774

Note that the agreement she refers to was signed a year before the convention, long before the first primary.

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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:01 AM   #10
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What ... powerful and influential polititian uses power and influence to advance in politics?? I am shocked, shocked I am! Someone call News at e11eventeen, quick!
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:08 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
What ... powerful and influential polititian uses power and influence to advance in politics?? I am shocked, shocked I am! Someone call News at e11eventeen, quick!
Are you really trying to minimize the fact that these "powerful and influential politicians" rigged the primary election?

That is truly remarkable....
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:10 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Sanders was a candidate in the Democratic primaries. He expressed his views clearly, and it was up to the voters -- alone -- to decide whether he was a Democrat.
No, that's not how it works, actually. The Democratic Party isn't a democracy. They can nominate whoever they want.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:14 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
No, that's not how it works, actually. The Democratic Party isn't a democracy. They can nominate whoever they want.
Who is "they?" The point is that the "party" -- however you define it -- shouldn't be run by and for the benefit of one candidate. The party and Clinton are not one and the same -- or shouldn't have been.

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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:15 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post

It would be fair to say at this point that the 2016 Democratic Primary was flat out rigged:
No it wouldn't.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:18 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
No, that's not how it works, actually. The Democratic Party isn't a democracy. They can nominate whoever they want.
That is how it works, actually. Clinton won the nomination by winning the most delegate votes. The point is that the electoral process was rigged.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:20 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
That is how it works, actually. Clinton won the nomination by winning the most delegate votes. The point is that the electoral process was rigged.
For certain definitions of the words "rigged"

Remind me how much money Bernie brought to the DNC and downballot candidates ??

Remind me how long Bernie was a registered democrat ?
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
Yet the states kept less than half of 1 percent of the $82 million they had amassed from the extravagant fund-raisers Hillary’s campaign was holding, just as Gary had described to me when he and I talked in August. When the Politico story described this arrangement as “essentially … money laundering” for the Clinton campaign, Hillary’s people were outraged at being accused of doing something shady. Bernie’s people were angry for their own reasons, saying this was part of a calculated strategy to throw the nomination to Hillary.
Inside Hillary Clinton’s Secret Takeover of the DNC: When I was asked to run the Democratic Party after the Russians hacked our emails, I stumbled onto a shocking truth about the Clinton campaign.

Thus, Hillary not only screwed Bernie, she starved the State Parties too.

Just a powerful and influential politician, folks, nothing to see here.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:24 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Who is "they?" The point is that the "party" -- however you define it -- shouldn't be run by and for the benefit of one candidate. The party and Clinton are not one and the same -- or shouldn't have been.
What are you talking about? The Democratic Party (the "they") can nominate whoever they want. I said so already. They can do so for any reason they see fit. If they decide to change the way they operate and skip the primaries entirely, I don't think there's anything illegal about it.

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
That is how it works, actually. Clinton won the nomination by winning the most delegate votes. The point is that the electoral process was rigged.
You're talking nonsense. Superdelegates can support whoever they want, and the others are assigned based on votes from Democratic voters. There's no rigging involved.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:25 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Just a powerful and influential politician, folks, nothing to see here.
I'm sure you meant that as sarcasm, but it turns out to be true.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:25 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Are you really trying to minimize the fact that these "powerful and influential politicians" rigged the primary election?

That is truly remarkable....
Rigged = Influenced in their favor.
That's what politics is, in a nutshell.

Were lawe broken, or even just promises? Was anyone bribed? Any fraud? Or just internal DNC procedures violated? Anything anyone with standing could take to any court and not be laughed out? Then I might look into this more deeply.

I do not, by the way, like such shenanigans, never liked Clinton, certainly not as candidate. But this here looks like run of the mill power brokeradge.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:26 AM   #21
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Interesting to see when the "Sanders was not a real democrat" nonsense will dry up given the fact that the Clinton campaign ********** the State Parties too.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:30 AM   #22
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There's a difference between how people think the party should be run, and how people think the party is being run.

Personally I think parties should be run however they want. If you don't like it, take control or form a new party. But it seems like in the last presidential campaign there was a substantial mismatch between how registered Democrats thought the party was being run, and how it was actually being run.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:33 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Are you really trying to minimize the fact that these "powerful and influential politicians" rigged the primary election?

That is truly remarkable....
They are private organizations. The decisions of private organizations are not rigged.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:41 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
They are private organizations. The decisions of private organizations are not rigged.
It would appear that numerous senior Democrats disagree.

the DNC is an organization that is subject to its own internal rules, procedures, guidelines, and agreements. If powerful and influential politicians conspire to ignore those and pursue their own agenda in violation of those internal rules, procedures, guidelines, and agreements then indeed the process can be and was rigged.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:41 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Not that I am complaining - if it wasn't for Sanders we wouldn't have Trump, and the US could still claim some respect. Those of us who hate America couldn't be happier!
Proof? None.

Clinton won the popular vote by 3M. Still lost. Sander had nothing to do with that.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:43 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It would appear that numerous senior Democrats disagree.

the DNC is an organization that is subject to its own internal rules, procedures, guidelines, and agreements. If powerful and influential politicians conspire to ignore those and pursue their own agenda in violation of those internal rules, procedures, guidelines, and agreements then indeed the process can and was rigged.
Which specific internal rules etc were broken, how compulsory were they, and which means of redress are possible?
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:44 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It would appear that numerous senior Democrats disagree.

the DNC is an organization that is subject to its own internal rules, procedures, guidelines, and agreements. If powerful and influential politicians conspire to ignore those and pursue their own agenda in violation of those internal rules, procedures, guidelines, and agreements then indeed the process can be and was rigged.
I don't care what numerous senior Democrats think.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:46 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It would appear that numerous senior Democrats disagree.

the DNC is an organization that is subject to its own internal rules, procedures, guidelines, and agreements. If powerful and influential politicians conspire to ignore those and pursue their own agenda in violation of those internal rules, procedures, guidelines, and agreements then indeed the process can be and was rigged.
You know when I said you just couldn't leave Clinton alone even though she's "done", and you said it was because she made a book? Yeah, no. You need your Clinton fix.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:49 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Which specific internal rules etc were broken, how compulsory were they, and which means of redress are possible?
Ask Elizabeth Warren and Donna Brazille and Ray Buckley.

If you had actually read Brazille's article that I linked in this very thread, you would have already answered the question yourself.

Quote:
“No! That can’t be true!” I said. “The party cannot take out a loan without the unanimous agreement of all of the officers.”

“Gary, how did they do this without me knowing?” I asked. “I don’t know how Debbie relates to the officers,” Gary said. He described the party as fully under the control of Hillary’s campaign, which seemed to confirm the suspicions of the Bernie camp. The campaign had the DNC on life support, giving it money every month to meet its basic expenses, while the campaign was using the party as a fund-raising clearinghouse.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:50 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
You know when I said you just couldn't leave Clinton alone even though she's "done", and you said it was because she made a book? Yeah, no. You need your Clinton fix.
This is actually about the DNC, not me.

typical deflection/derail.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:54 AM   #31
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For the record: I think Clinton was a terrible candidate, the sort of dynastic insider the world could do so well without, and the Democratic party deserves all the scorn, contempt and ridicule in the world for not building up a better candidate (which Sanders of course was NOT). But you can't blame Clinton for using the leverage, the money, the inside connections she had. You can't even blame those within the DNC who bought the notion that HRC is the best pick and ought to be pushed. They were wrong - but being wrong is not a scandal.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 09:58 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Ask Elizabeth Warren and Donna Brazille and Ray Buckley.

If you had actually read Brazille's article that I linked in this very thread, you would have already answered the question yourself.
I asked not one but three questions.
One is answered with a claim - which perhaps needs some corroboration, namely which rule was broken. Was that a compulsory rule or just best practice? And what redress is possible?

Does anyone with standing want to sue? Whom? Where? On what grounds?
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Old 3rd November 2017, 10:10 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Trump weighs in:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...17546038923264

Hate to give Trump credit for anything, but I do chuckle a little bit every time he calls Elizabeth Warren "Pocahontas".
Yep and he's going to try to ride that all the way to re-election (if he's not in jail) in 2020. Prepare for that and only that.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 10:11 AM   #34
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One more:

Clinton was overwhelmingly the nominee of Big Money. She was in a position to take over the DNC because she was chosen by Big Money for that role.

And THAT is the core of the problem here, as well of pretty much all the problems with GOP including the Trump desaster: that the 0.02% of the richest of the rich pre-select all the important candidates by throwing money at them long before any democratic (lower-case d) process like primaries, conventions or general elections take place.
Eliminate private campaign funding, and this problem disappears, as do many others.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 10:11 AM   #35
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Old 3rd November 2017, 10:24 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
This is actually about the DNC, not me.
My point stands.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 10:29 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I asked not one but three questions.
One is answered with a claim - which perhaps needs some corroboration, namely which rule was broken. Was that a compulsory rule or just best practice? And what redress is possible?

Does anyone with standing want to sue? Whom? Where? On what grounds?
and I answered it, and you did not address that or acknowledge the actual quote from the actual head of the DNC. "“The party cannot take out a loan without the unanimous agreement of all of the officers.” Rather, you just asked more questions trying to pretend that specific cites to specific section of the DNC agreement were necessary.

“The party cannot take out a loan without the unanimous agreement of all of the officers.”

what specific section of the agreement was she referring to? WHO *********** CARES?

Deal with that specific claim, and don't try to seduce people that specific cites are necessary in any way shape or form.

It is argument by minutiae, appeal to perfection, Gish Gallop and Just Asking Questions in a big disingenuous bow.
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you to the ignorant, uneducated portion ofAmerica too short sighted to see what's right in front of your Clinton loving faces.

Last edited by The Big Dog; 3rd November 2017 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 10:37 AM   #38
The Big Dog
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“The fact of the matter remains, the way the system was conducted, the DNC did not follow its own bylaws. And so if we’re going to have some truth talk here, let’s talk about reform and let’s talk about unity,” Nina Turner, a former Ohio state senator.

“This is really about a DNC that lacks accountability and transparency. Period,” Turner said.

I look forward to complaints that she did not cite the specific bylaw, and detailed legal questions about standing to sue (which no one brought up) which means.

Ignore it, all is well!

http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-rigg...primary-700875
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Last edited by The Big Dog; 3rd November 2017 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Forget the link, not that apologists will read it
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Old 3rd November 2017, 10:39 AM   #39
Mark F
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To be quite honest I never saw Bernie as a Democrat.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 10:47 AM   #40
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I guess Donna Brazile and Elizabeth Warren are "Bernie Bros" now?
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