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Tags 2016 elections , Clinton controversies , Democratic primaries , dnc , Donna Brazile , election controversies , hillary clinton

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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:05 PM   #121
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
If the allegations are true, Hillary truly deserved to lose.

No way a candidate's campaign should have such control and influence over the RNC or DNC without the deal being transparent and known by all and agreed to by all candidates.

FYI- I voted for Hillary in the primary and on Nov 7th.
If you meant the first part seriously:
Oh for pity's sake. Educate yourself about the issues or consider butting out.

If the first part was sarcasm:
Never mind.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:08 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Did you read it?
Quote:
"Nothing in this agreement shall be construed to violate the DNC's obligation of impartiality and neutrality through the Nominating process. All activities performed under this agreement will be focused exclusively on preparations for the General Election and not the Democratic Primary. Further we understand you may enter into similar agreements with other candidates.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:10 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
If the allegations are true, Hillary truly deserved to lose.

No way a candidate's campaign should have such control and influence over the RNC or DNC without the deal being transparent and known by all and agreed to by all candidates.
I don't see anything terribly awful in the allegations myself. The DNC has been wearing it's "2016 is Hillary's turn" for years, which goes a long way to explaining the lack of candidates. Sights were re-set on 2020, even if only for VP.

What's unforgivable, and barely credible, is that Hillary Clinton insisted on having her turn. I can only put it down to vanity.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:13 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I was referring to the "rigged" allegations that came out within the last 24 hours, although we all appreciate you posting the latest ******** talking points.

Turns out Bernie was right, and the Clinton gang took over the DNC while Obama fiddled.
Yes, and those allegations are BS too.

Let's take a look...

Quote:
1) With respect to the hiring of a DNC Communications Director, the DNC agrees that no later than September 11, 2015 it will hire one of two candidates previously identified as acceptable to HFA.
Hillary's campaign got to have a say on if a candidate for a job that was likely going to be doing their communications for the GE was acceptable to them. The DNC still got to determine who got the job.

Quote:
2) With respect to the hiring of future DNC senior staff in the communications, technology, and research departments, in the case of vacancy, the DNC will maintain the authority to make the final decision as between candidates acceptable to HFA.
Likewise, people that were going to be working in the areas of communications and getting the message out during the GE came from a pool of people that were acceptable to Hillary's team. Why? because they didn't want someone clearly anti-Hillary being in charge of DNC communications should they be contesting the GE! Once again, the DNC made final decisions.

Quote:
3) Agreement by the DNC that HFA personnel will be consulted and have joint authority over strategic decisions over the staffing, budget, expenditures, and general election related communications, data, technology, analytics, and research.
This one is a bit long so I've broken it into parts.

Hillary's team got to have a say in how the DNC was picking its staff, doing the budget and expenses as well as the communications, data, technology, analytics, and research for the General Election. Again, this seems sensible as going into the GE if Hillary was candidate then they would want a team in the DNC that was able to be 100% behind them.

Quote:
The DNC will provide HFA advance opportunity to review on-line or mass email, communications that features a particular Democratic primary candidate. This does not include any communications related to primary debates – which will be exclusively controlled by the DNC. The DNC will alert HFA in advance of mailing any direct mail communications that features a particular Democratic primary candidate or his or her signature.
Generic speak for... Hillary's team gets to review anything the DNC put out on her or that has her signature on it, other than communications to do with the Primary debates.

Quote:
4) If asked by a State Party, the DNC will encourage the State Party to become a participant in the Victory Fund.
So if a state party asks about donating to the Victory Fund, the DNC should encourage it.

Quote:
Nothing in this agreement shall be construed to violate the DNC's obligation of impartiality and neutrality through the Nominating process. All activities performed under this agreement will be focused exclusively on preparations for the General Election and not the Democratic Primary. Further we understand you may enter into similar agreements with other candidates.
So yeah, nothing in the agreement actually negatively affected Bernie or any other candidate.

So how again did this "rig" the primaries again Bernie? Please be specific.
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Last edited by PhantomWolf; 3rd November 2017 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:16 PM   #125
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duplicate

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 3rd November 2017 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:18 PM   #126
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And speaking of rigged, to hear the alt-right/Trumpers put it, you'd think the DNC was a public agency.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:19 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Did you read it?
That's what I'm talking about : nothing terribly awful. And far too late in the unfurling disaster to make any difference anyway.

And it's not even revelatory : we've been talking about the fix being in for years right here.

On the plus side, we are reminded Trump's persidency is the result of the Democratic Party's failure, not his own success.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:21 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Did you read it?
Yes, and such a caveat appears to be ridiculous considering the actual terms of the agreement.

Hillary's campaign possessed extreme control & influence over DNC activities and decisions and such an agreement looks a whole lot like favoritism.

Looks to me like Hillary being the Democratic candidate for POTUS was assumed to be guaranteed and the DNC acted accordingly.

I would be VERY curious to see that such an exact same offer was made to Bernie or Martin O'Malley.

Somehow I doubt such an offer was made to these gentlemen, even Bernie who could have very well won the primary.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:22 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And speaking of rigged, to hear the alt-right/Trumpers put it, you'd think the DNC was a public agency.
And you'd think TV debates are enshrined in the Constitution. "Clinton got told there'd be a question about the economy - lock 'er up!"
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:23 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Yes, and such a caveat appears to be ridiculous considering the actual terms of the agreement.[snipped].
I have yet to see you post just how it was the DNC pulled this rigging off. WHICH ACTIONS DISADVANTAGED SANDERS AND ACTUALLY MADE A DIFFERENCE?
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:24 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Somehow I doubt such an offer was made to these gentlemen, even Bernie who could have very well won the primary.
********. He could no more have walked on the Moon.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:25 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh dear, are we boring you? Now if it was me, I would start with reviewing the thread and seeing where people post things like Sanders is not a real democrat, that "Sanders is only a Democrat when it's convenient. He contributed little to the party itself. Yet somehow the DNC is rigged against him" etc etc.

the fact that you believe that "every liberal on this forum (yes, every liberal!) voted for Bernie in the Primary" is utterly adorable.
OK. Almost every liberal.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:25 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
I remember when you blamed Hillary's loss on nothing but misogyny.
well that makes one of us.
More likely than not i mentioned it as one of the big factors but you'll somehow forget about that.

Got a link?
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:26 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Bottom line, state specifically just what the DNC did that rigged the primary?
I have not yet suggested that the primary was actually rigged in Hillary's favor.

But this agreement suggests she had extreme influence and control over DNC activities long before the voters decided that she would be entitled to such power.

The People assume that EVERYTHING is 100% fair and impartial until the primary winner is declared. We assumed the DNC acted blindly and without any undo influence from any candidate until such influence was given to them by the voters.

The DNC may not be a public agency but the massive importance of their actions and decisions demands they be morally obligated to act as if they were one.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:27 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
congrats for having the one actually true thing you complain about with Clinton not actually be illegal.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:30 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
congrats for having the one actually true thing you complain about with Clinton not actually be illegal.
So because the agreement wasn't illegal means it was the right and fair thing to do?
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:32 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Yes, and those allegations are BS too.

Let's take a look...
A very nice breakdown, thanks.

This is the perfect time to finally use it.

Nothingburger.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:34 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
well that makes one of us.
More likely than not i mentioned it as one of the big factors but you'll somehow forget about that.

Got a link?

Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I do. The only reason she lost is that she's a woman, and the woman haters probably bullied their wives into voting for Trump, just like we saw with him and his son.
...
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:36 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
congrats for having the one actually true thing you complain about with Clinton not actually be illegal.
Yeah, but body of work, Benghazi. Simple as that. Just is.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:36 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
So because the agreement wasn't illegal means it was the right and fair thing to do?
Of course not. I'm responding to trumptards that think she should be in jail.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:36 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I have not yet suggested that the primary was actually rigged in Hillary's favor.

But this agreement suggests she had extreme influence and control over DNC activities long before the voters decided that she would be entitled to such power.

The People assume that EVERYTHING is 100% fair and impartial until the primary winner is declared. We assumed the DNC acted blindly and without any undo influence from any candidate until such influence was given to them by the voters.

The DNC may not be a public agency but the massive importance of their actions and decisions demands they be morally obligated to act as if they were one.
IOW, you got nothing.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:39 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
And it's not even revelatory : we've been talking about the fix being in for years right here.
And in all those years it's been talked about, no one has stumped up the proof and had it stand up to examination. Yeah they have a great sound byte to start with, for the 30 seconds it takes to do some actual research, and then it falls flat on its face, just like today's damp squib.

Still that won't stop the anti-Hillary Brigade and the Bernie-Bros from shouting this as 100% proof of the system being rigged again Bernie because.... reasons!

The fact that they have no real evidence that actually stacks up doesn't matter because they hate Hillary and just know she stole the primary from Bernie in their heart of hearts and that makes it true regardless of evidence. Just like they know that the Primary was so close that he almost beat her, despite losing by around a 886 votes overall and 359 pledged ones (which to any honest person's account is an absolute pasting. c.f 2008 where Clinton lost by just 294.5 counting the Superdelegates, a number of whom, including herself, Bill, all of the NY and Arkansas Democratic Reps and Senators, switched their votes to Obama, meaning it was actually even closer.)
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:44 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
...
LOL
Well done
When was that?
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:44 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
But this agreement suggests she had extreme influence and control over DNC activities long before the voters decided that she would be entitled to such power.
Hillary Clinton has been in Democratic politics her entire adult life, she was an active First Lady for eight years, a New York Senator for four, and a Secretary of State for four.

Just what is it you think Democratic Party voters didn't know about Hillary Clinton and her fitness for Presidential office?
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:46 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
IOW, you got nothing.

We now know that Hillary exercised undo and undeserved influence over DNC decisions long before she had the right to do so.

Now we need to find out what these decisions were since 9/2015 and if any of them favored Hillary in ANY way over O'Malley or Sanders.

Do you oppose such an investigation?
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:49 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
We now know that Hillary exercised undo and undeserved influence over DNC decisions long before she had the right to do so.

Now we need to find out what these decisions were since 9/2015 and if any of them favored Hillary in ANY way over O'Malley or Sanders.

Do you oppose such an investigation?
I absolutely oppose. Private groups should be exempt from witch hunts when there is no evidence of a crime.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:50 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
LOL
Well done
When was that?
Doesn't matter, there's plenty more examples that come up on search.

The Big Dog says it best here:


Originally Posted by The Big Dog
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
You kids can piss and moan all you want about emails, the fact remains she did nothing many other presidents have done - and not a word about it. You know for a face that Trump is in every possible way, worse. But that's ok.

The only thing you people couldn't stomach was that she was a woman.
She was not and will never be President, although I will stipulate that the Loser was very Nixonian.

By the way, you are are beating the sexism card like a drum. Guess when ya got nothing, you got to play with what you are dealt. Most people would have folded months ago.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:52 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I absolutely oppose. Private groups should be exempt from witch hunts when there is no evidence of a crime.
Primary elections receive government funds and oversight.

If the DNC and RNC want to be truly treated as private organizations they should end primary voting and simply have party members select their candidate at the convention and nothing more.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:56 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Doesn't matter, there's plenty more examples that come up on search.

The Big Dog says it best here:
It's pretty clear those statements are false, and that there were other factors. But I stand behind the spirit of them, that she lost a lot of votes due to misogyny.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:57 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
So because the agreement wasn't illegal means it was the right and fair thing to do?
Try taking off the blinders for a moment.

The DNC was cash strapped.

In return for the Clinton Campaign helping to finance them towards the GE (which is actually their job. Their only jobs during the Primaries are to set up the Debates, announce the candidates, keep an up-to-date database of Voters, and setup for the Conference) Clinton's campaign would get to have a say in the final group of candidates for any jobs in areas that would be vital during the GE, and got to keep the DNC budget and expenses under control, which is kind of fair since they were bank rolling them.

The only thing that might have been unfair is that they got to review materials the DNC published on Hillary, but that is minor fish and I'd suspect all Campaigns would ask for some sort of review on that to prevent misleading or wrong information being produced on their Candidate.

There is still no evidence of any "rigging" the system against the other candidates.

The only real thing here is that the Clinton Campaign got to make sure that they had at least Clinton neutral people in important DNC communications positions for the General Election should they be the ones using it. Had Bernie have actually won, he would have gained the benefit of Clinton's work in holding the DNC together without actually having contributed to it!
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Old 3rd November 2017, 06:59 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Still that won't stop the anti-Hillary Brigade and the Bernie-Bros from shouting this as 100% proof of the system being rigged again Bernie because.... reasons!
To be fair, he never pretended not to be an entryist. The Democratic Party turned out to have an effective immune system, unlike the GOP in recent times.

There was no untapped Bernie vote from within the Democratic Party that was somehow deflected by DNC machinations. It's not a credible proposition.

The horrid irony, of course, is that it might have worked out better to run one entryist against another. Bernie would have so owned Trump.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 07:01 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Try taking off the blinders for a moment.

The DNC was cash strapped.

In return for the Clinton Campaign helping to finance them towards the GE (which is actually their job. Their only jobs during the Primaries are to set up the Debates, announce the candidates, keep an up-to-date database of Voters, and setup for the Conference) Clinton's campaign would get to have a say in the final group of candidates for any jobs in areas that would be vital during the GE, and got to keep the DNC budget and expenses under control, which is kind of fair since they were bank rolling them.

The only thing that might have been unfair is that they got to review materials the DNC published on Hillary, but that is minor fish and I'd suspect all Campaigns would ask for some sort of review on that to prevent misleading or wrong information being produced on their Candidate.

There is still no evidence of any "rigging" the system against the other candidates.

The only real thing here is that the Clinton Campaign got to make sure that they had at least Clinton neutral people in important DNC communications positions for the General Election should they be the ones using it. Had Bernie have actually won, he would have gained the benefit of Clinton's work in holding the DNC together without actually having contributed to it!
Current and former Democratic Party members such as myself have a right to know if any DNC decisions influenced by the Hillary campaign gave unfair advantage to Hillary.

DNC should hire an outside investigator to look into this matter, or hire an IG.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 07:02 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Primary elections receive government funds and oversight.

If the DNC and RNC want to be truly treated as private organizations they should end primary voting and simply have party members select their candidate at the convention and nothing more.
Who the hell are you to tell private organisations what they should do?
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Old 3rd November 2017, 07:03 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Primary elections receive government funds and oversight.

If the DNC and RNC want to be truly treated as private organizations they should end primary voting and simply have party members select their candidate at the convention and nothing more.
I don't care if they receive public funds. Giving your money away doesn't entitle you to post hoc non negotiated terms.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 07:04 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Current and former Democratic Party members such as myself have a right to know if any DNC decisions influenced by the Hillary campaign gave unfair advantage to Hillary.
Can you conjure up a scenario in which that could happen?
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Old 3rd November 2017, 07:05 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Current and former Democratic Party members such as myself have a right to know if any DNC decisions influenced by the Hillary campaign gave unfair advandage to Hillary.
How about you actually work out how it even could have given a realistic and unfair advantage to her first instead of just speculating.

Quote:
DNC should hire an outside investigator to look into this matter, or hire an IG.
What's the point of wasting money when there is a lack of evidence that it needs to be investigated? Fishing trips are pretty much a pointless waste of time and money. How about you show that there is at least some probably cause of wrong doing here rather than just pure speculation.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 07:05 PM   #157
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Current and former Democratic Party members such as myself have a right to know if any DNC decisions influenced by the Hillary campaign gave unfair advantage to Hillary.

DNC should hire an outside investigator to look into this matter, or hire an IG.
No you don't.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 07:07 PM   #158
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Quote:
Agreement by the DNC that HFA personnel will be consulted and have joint authority over strategic decisions over the staffing, budget, expenditures, and general election related communications, data, technology, analytics, and research. The DNC will provide HFA advance opportunity to review on-line or mass email, communications that features a particular Democratic primary candidate. This does not include any communications related to primary debates – which will be exclusively controlled by the DNC. The DNC will alert HFA in advance of mailing any direct mail communications that features a particular Democratic primary candidate or his or her signature.
Nice of posters to break it up.

Hillary gets joint control over staffing etc... signed in 2015.

And the Clinton fanatics want to pretend it was General only. Well in that case CERTAINLY, they signed similar agreements with the other candidates, right?

Rigged, but kudos for the dead end kid's apologists rushing to the corrupt **** bags defense.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 07:09 PM   #159
Hercules56
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
Can you conjure up a scenario in which that could happen?
I can't even begin to speculate how the DNC's decisions and actions between 9/2015 and the DNC Convention in 2016 may have favored Hillary over Bernie and O'Malley.

That's why I'd like to see an IG or independent investigator look into the matter.

Such an investigation would restore my faith in the Democratic Party and reverse the "I" over my voter registration.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 07:09 PM   #160
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Nice of posters to break it up.

Hillary gets joint control over staffing etc... signed in 2015.

And the Clinton fanatics want to pretend it was General only. Well in that case CERTAINLY, they signed similar agreements with the other candidates, right?

Rigged, but kudos for the dead end kid's apologists rushing to the corrupt **** bags defense.
Not rigged.
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