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Tags shooting incidents , Texas incidents

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Old 5th November 2017, 02:42 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Quick!! To the Thoughts and Prayers mobile!

STAT!
CNN already had a discussion about how the hypothetical good guy with a gun must have left it in his pickup truck.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 5th November 2017 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 5th November 2017, 02:44 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Paul Ryan on Twitter
"Reports out of Texas are devastating. The people of Sutherland Springs need our prayers right now."

The murdered victims were in a church, praying. If prayers did anything, they'd still be alive, you worthless dick.
Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Nailed him on both counts. Prayers mean crap and he is a worthless dick!!!!!
Because atheists think God would be their own personal genie?

What will happen here is people coming to God through tragedy and difficult times, which he said we would have. Christians have never been spared from hard times, tragedy, or disaster, but out of those things many miracles have been experienced.
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Old 5th November 2017, 02:44 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
Well, it's a First Baptist church, so most likely a majority black membership. Should be interesting to see the suspect...
Nope, mostly WASP with a few "Mexicans" according to a town spokesman. The church also videotapes their services and puts them up on YouTube for people who couldn't make it to church.
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Old 5th November 2017, 02:45 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
He was a Muslim killing privileged white people, no big deal.
WTF?
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Old 5th November 2017, 02:49 PM   #45
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The irony is yesterday evening was a lead up to All Saints Day today when people honour the dead.
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Old 5th November 2017, 02:51 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
And how often does that happen?

Do you think there's a reason why most mass killers in the USA use guns instead of vehicles or swimming pools? What do you think that reason is?
The availability of guns for sure plays role in how the attacks are done. Not if the attack is done or not.
For the record, I'm not US citizen, and I have no stakes in the debate. IMHO US needs some form of gun control. Registration at least. It's weird cars more controlled than guns, and pro-gun crowd is overly concerned about it.
But clearly anti-gun crowd expects too much from it. Especially you can't expect quick solution. Even complete gun ban would take decades to take effect with amount of guns in circulation.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:00 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
CNN already had a discussion about how the hypothetical good guy with a gun must of left it in his pickup truck.
.. must have left it in his pickup truck. Sorry, pet peeve.

I think it goes like this:
Shooter is black - thug, but there are very fine people in the KKK
Shooter is Muslim (or brown) - terrorism! Deport them all.
Shooter is white - lone nut, mental illness, he needed treatment.

Whatever the colour, religion or motive of the shooter might turn out to be, this is the 307th mass shooting (=4 or more deaths) in the USA in 2017. That is almost one a day. When does America ask itself the hard questions about the gun culture and about a functioning mental health treatment system?
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:03 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
.. must have left it in his pickup truck. Sorry, pet peeve.
Aack! I should know better.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:05 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Because atheists think God would be their own personal genie?....
LOL, and if someone had heroically managed to stop this guy you would say God was working through him.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:05 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
..
I think it goes like this:
Shooter is black - thug, but there are very fine people in the KKK
Shooter is Muslim (or brown) - terrorism! Deport them all.
Shooter is white - lone nut, mental illness, he needed treatment [nothing can be done]....
ftfy They don't want to invest in mental health services.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:08 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Paul Ryan on Twitter
"Reports out of Texas are devastating. The people of Sutherland Springs need our prayers right now."

The murdered victims were in a church, praying. If prayers did anything, they'd still be alive, you worthless dick.
Nommed.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:09 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
The availability of guns for sure plays role in how the attacks are done. Not if the attack is done or not.
I would say cars and trucks are more available than guns, even in the USA. And still mass killings with cars and trucks are rare. If cars were as easy to perpetrate mass killings with as guns, you would see more of it. Instead, the car killings we have seen in both Europe and the USA have been perpetrated by people who couldn't get access to guns.

And with Nice as a sad exception, you can't expect to easily kills as many people with a vehicle as you can with guns.

And the mass killing on topic here couldn't be done with a vehicle. Nor the myriad of school shootings we've seen in the past.

Killing with guns is just so much easier than practically any other choice of weapon there is. Guns are, no matter how you look at it, fundamentally designed to kill.

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
For the record, I'm not US citizen, and I have no stakes in the debate. IMHO US needs some form of gun control. Registration at least. It's weird cars more controlled than guns, and pro-gun crowd is overly concerned about it.
But clearly anti-gun crowd expects too much from it. Especially you can't expect quick solution. Even complete gun ban would take decades to take effect with amount of guns in circulation.
I'm not a US citizen either. I don't really have a dog in this race, except being sad at seeing this happen again and again. It's frustrating to see after each incident, Americans just shrug and say there's nothing that can be done - when the rest of the civilized world doesn't experience frequent incidents like this. Clearly, something can be done.

But for the above, we are in agreement. It's not going to be easy to do something. But in the US, even talking about doing something seems to be out of the question. That's the major problem.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:10 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
The availability of guns for sure plays role in how the attacks are done. Not if the attack is done or not.
For the record, I'm not US citizen, and I have no stakes in the debate. IMHO US needs some form of gun control. Registration at least. It's weird cars more controlled than guns, and pro-gun crowd is overly concerned about it.
But clearly anti-gun crowd expects too much from it. Especially you can't expect quick solution. Even complete gun ban would take decades to take effect with amount of guns in circulation.
The terrorist incidents might happen without guns, but other spree killings mightn't.

There is the copycat factor, and the fact that having semiautomatic weapons to hand mean that an impulsive act is far easier, as the planning might be nothing more than driving to the nearest shopping mall and shooting until shot.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:14 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
.. must have left it in his pickup truck. Sorry, pet peeve.

I think it goes like this:
Shooter is black - thug, but there are very fine people in the KKK
Shooter is Muslim (or brown) - terrorism! Deport them all.
Shooter is white - lone nut, mental illness, he needed treatment.

Whatever the colour, religion or motive of the shooter might turn out to be, this is the 307th mass shooting (=4 or more deaths) in the USA in 2017. That is almost one a day. When does America ask itself the hard questions about the gun culture and about a functioning mental health treatment system?
It says we should certainly invest more in mental health and that everyone should have the right to be armed. I never go anywhere without it.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:18 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by The Sparrow View Post
LOL, and if someone had heroically managed to stop this guy you would say God was working through him.
Lol

And you would have been upset about that too.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:19 PM   #56
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Disarming at this point only makes situations like this worse.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:21 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
The terrorist incidents might happen without guns, but other spree killings mightn't.

There is the copycat factor, and the fact that having semiautomatic weapons to hand mean that an impulsive act is far easier, as the planning might be nothing more than driving to the nearest shopping mall and shooting until shot.
Well if you ban guns, they might realize, they can actually do just the same without gun. Just driving to the nearest shopping mall and keep driving until shot.

Anyway .. there is certainly some mental disease factor. But the copycat factor is the major one I think. There is media image these people are identifying with. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with few exceptions of Muslim terrorism, this is mostly free-time activity of white males. I don't know about case where the shooter was black. And it's not like they don't have guns. It's like it's not their thing.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:22 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Disarming at this point only makes situations like this worse.
Not if the ones that are targeted for disarming are the ones that are most likely to snap and go on shooting sprees. Notably the ones that have mental issues known about by family and friends such as serve depression or anger, but never have it reported to the authorities.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:29 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
Well, it's a First Baptist church, so most likely a majority black membership. Should be interesting to see the suspect...
Oddly, it appears to be mostly white folk. The habitually video their services and post them on their youtube channel.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:31 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The irony is yesterday evening was a lead up to All Saints Day today when people honour the dead.

Jeez, Vixen, get something right for once. All Saints' Day is 1st November. And the day before is, get this, "All Hallows' Eve", a.k.a. Hallowe'en.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:31 PM   #61
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I see americans are still hard at work jacking up that price of freedom. You must really love those guns.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:33 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Disarming at this point only makes situations like this worse.
How exactly?
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:36 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Police shoot him dead after a 'pursuit', it is being reported.

If this fellow was in combat gear and armed with an AK-assault, could be a neo-nazi survivalist, with a handy captive audience for his target...?
Well, to be fair, information is sketchy about the perp.

All we know really is that it is a pretty obscure target for a mass shooter and that very obscurity leads me to suspect that it likely is some wingnut with a grudge and not terrorism. But so far that is total speculation on my part.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:39 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Disarming at this point only makes situations like this worse.
Wow. You are right. If the perp did not have a gun then there would be...wait, what?
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:44 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
How exactly?
Don't you read the news! Someone already linked to the story in The Onion that explains things. Sheesh. Talk about your low information voters.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:51 PM   #66
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Just don't politicize it. Too soon.


Unless the shooter is an immigrant, then feel free to politicize it.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:52 PM   #67
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Referring to an earlier story that the shooter had first killed his family:


https://heavy.com/news/2017/11/chris...hooter-gunman/

ETA: Summary. The previous story named the shooter, but this story has relatives of the man claiming that his family was attacked, but not by him.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 5th November 2017 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:54 PM   #68
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There is now video labeled 'How US mass shootings are getting worse' on the page linked in first post. It claims 60% white, 20% black, 20% other for shooters. But what's interesting is the increase in last 20 years. Check this graph:

https://thesocietypages.org/socimage...015/07/132.png

Also interesting is that the first increase in 90s was during Clinton's "assault weapons" ban. Anyway there might be some correlation with increase of guns owned, which go sharply up since 90s. Still, guns were available before 90s, just as easily as they are today.

Looks like it's videogames after all !?

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Old 5th November 2017, 03:54 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
I see americans are still hard at work jacking up that price of freedom. You must really love those guns.
Gun killings have been on the decline as far as I can tell. What is being jacked up in your opinion?

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Old 5th November 2017, 03:57 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Jeez, Vixen, get something right for once. All Saints' Day is 1st November. And the day before is, get this, "All Hallows' Eve", a.k.a. Hallowe'en.
Some Baptist churches hold an annual memorial service on "All Saints Sunday", the first Sunday of November.


ETA: http://thesubstanceoffaith.com/prayi....RVWoibH4.dpbs

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Old 5th November 2017, 04:08 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Gun killings have been on the decline as far as I can tell. What is being jacked up in your opinion?

Ranb
Gun homicides are on the decline. Mass shootings are on the increase though.
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:13 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Gun homicides are on the decline. Mass shootings are on the increase though.
That only matters if the mass shooting victims are somehow more dead or more worthy of our sympathy than those who were decent enough to die alone and were not worthy of breaking news style attention by the mass media.

I speak for myself, but the number of people killed at one time doesn't change the way I feel about the victims. Who the victims are (those at Sandy Hook for example) matters more to me when I read about them.

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Old 5th November 2017, 04:24 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Not if the ones that are targeted for disarming are the ones that are most likely to snap and go on shooting sprees. Notably the ones that have mental issues known about by family and friends such as serve depression or anger, but never have it reported to the authorities.
This. ^^^

The straw-man always puts what we have now against total abolition.

It's not. It's reasonable to require universal background checks, to close gun show loopholes, and possibly to require some sort of certification. None of that should take any guns away from “responsible gun owners”.
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:25 PM   #74
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shooter's ID

https://www.thedailybeast.com/devin-...-church-killer
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:26 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
That only matters if the mass shooting victims are somehow more dead or more worthy of our sympathy than those who were decent enough to die alone and were not worthy of breaking news style attention by the mass media.

I speak for myself, but the number of people killed at one time doesn't change the way I feel about the victims. Who the victims are (those at Sandy Hook for example) matters more to me when I read about them.
I think these two are simply unrelated. Mass killings by gun are more related to mass killings by car or bomb, than to general homicides, IMHO.
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:28 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
Well, it's a First Baptist church, so most likely a majority black membership. Should be interesting to see the suspect...
Never mind, answered.

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Old 5th November 2017, 04:29 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
I'm far from a Trump supporter, but what exactly did you expect him to do from Japan where it is the middle of the night right now?

This is exactly the type of message any leader from any country at a similar time sends when woken up in the middle of the night.

The question remains what will he do later once things become clearer, but to condemn this pretty much is condemning that he breathes air.
Agreed. I'd prefer Twitter wasn't his go to platform, but aside from that, no issues with the initial message.
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:30 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Jeez, Vixen, get something right for once. All Saints' Day is 1st November. And the day before is, get this, "All Hallows' Eve", a.k.a. Hallowe'en.
Southern Baptists don't observe All Saints Day anyway.
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:32 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Paul Ryan on Twitter
"Reports out of Texas are devastating. The people of Sutherland Springs need our prayers right now."

The murdered victims were in a church, praying. If prayers did anything, they'd still be alive, you worthless dick.
A bit churlish, that.
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:32 PM   #80
Trebuchet
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That's because it was utterly wrong.
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