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Old 6th July 2022, 10:00 PM   #1
Skeptic Ginger
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Is where tech questions go? I have one.

A month, maybe a couple months ago lightning struck a tree nearby and knocked down a live power line. There was a small fire, and our power went off and on, off and on repeatedly for a good 10 minutes. Then it was out until they fixed the line.

When this was happening I unplugged everything that was easy to unplug. But I didn't unplug the stereo/radio/CD player thingy.


When the power came back on everything seemed fine. No circuits were tripped and I have a number of GFIs at the receptacle, none of those tripped.

But when I turn off the radio that has the cd player thingy, it goes off just fine but a few seconds later the CD player turns itself back on. I tried a number of things except for unplugging it and plugging it back in because the plug is hard to reach.

So I've been ignoring it. Meh. I'll deal with it later.

Fast forward a month or so and I'm upstairs where there is another radio/CD player thingy, (one of them is years newer but I can't remember which one), completely different brand, when I notice the CD player is on. So I turn it off. It goes off, says 'goodbye' and shuts down. Then a few seconds later it turns itself on. It's also hard to reach where it plugs in so I didn't unplug it during the power frenzy.

Both of them have remotes if that's relevant. One is on the older wiring* in the house with the GFI, and the other is on the newer half of the house with newer wiring.

*When the house was remodeled the wiring in the crawl space/attic was all redone but they didn't rewire the individual lines down the walls to light switches and outlets.

Any ideas what possible things are I might investigate? What causes this mysterious behavior? It's so odd that it happened the same way to two different devices.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 6th July 2022 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 7th July 2022, 02:09 AM   #2
HansMustermann
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Circuit breakers are not always tripped by very short pulses. I don't even mean nanoseconds. It's entirely possible and actually common for stuff like a 200% overload to not trip it for 5 seconds, but trip it if it goes on for longer than that. (Especially industrial ones kinda HAVE to be that way, or the initial power draw of starting an electric motor would trip them even though afterwards it's all ok.) Essentially those things are there to keep your house from catching on fire, not to prevent such pulses.

As to what exactly got fried in the CD players, I couldn't really say. I mean, I don't even know the model, and I'd be unqualified even if I did.

It's not uncommon though for wildly different devices to use the same chip or sensor or whatever. Hell, they can even be the same device rebranded.

I don't know about audio ones in radios, but most CD/DVD/Bluray drives for the PC are made by the same manufacturers. For example you may have gotten, say, an ASUS drive for your PC, but ASUS doesn't actually make optical drives at all. There is no ASUS factory making those. They have an OEM contract with IIRC Pioneer, then ASUS just slaps their own logo on them and sells them as ASUS drives.

I expect the same to be true for audio electronics. I seriously doubt that every company which sells a radio with such a player in it actually designed and made their own CD player. They probably just buy the OEM part from some manufacturer and stick them in their own radio case, and that's it.

So basically I wouldn't be entirely surprised if both your radios actually had the same CD player with the same electronics inside. Hence they both died the same way in the same conditions.
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Old 7th July 2022, 03:14 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
....snip...

But when I turn off the radio that has the cd player thingy, it goes off just fine but a few seconds later the CD player turns itself back on. I tried a number of things except for unplugging it and plugging it back in because the plug is hard to reach.


...snip..

Any ideas what possible things are I might investigate? What causes this mysterious behavior? It's so odd that it happened the same way to two different devices.
Do they come back on "fully" i.e. displays lit up? Was this their default behaviour when you got them? You may have had a setting that allowed a choice between something like "switch totally off" and "switch off to standby"?

Sad to tell you but I do think your next step has to be to unplug them and then plug them back in.
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Old 7th July 2022, 03:51 AM   #4
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It's broken. Buy a new one.
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Old 7th July 2022, 05:48 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
It's broken. Buy a new one.
but that would mean unplugging it. Too hard to reach.

GFIs don't help lightning strikes. Surge protectors do. You can get surge protection in power strips, also making the plugs more accessible.
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Old 7th July 2022, 10:44 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
but that would mean unplugging it.

“I can't let you do that, Skeptic Ginger.”
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Last edited by Mojo; 7th July 2022 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 7th July 2022, 11:05 AM   #7
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Why not just flip the circuit breaker on the main house panel? Does the same thing as unplugging them.
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Old 7th July 2022, 01:50 PM   #8
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On some devices, you have to leave them unplugged for several minutes to ensure they "reset" so to speak. If that doesn't work, there could be some actual damage to the units. I once had lightning damage a DVR's HDMI output, weirdly every other port still worked perfectly.
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Old 7th July 2022, 04:32 PM   #9
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We have a noise generator that lately has exhibited the same symptoms. I have had a couple of other devices do this too. The common factor? They all use electronic, not mechanical power switches. You will notice this sometimes also on flashlights (going off abruptly, not so much going on).

My guess is the electronic power switch is going bad.
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Old 7th July 2022, 05:00 PM   #10
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This is really helpful stuff guys. Thank you Hans, that makes sense they have the same parts.

And Darat, I think you are on to something there. I bought them a very long time ago but I recall the floor models had just what you are describing, some mode or other and it could very well have been the display that keeps coming on.

And Casebro it makes sense why the GFIs trigger from this side of the outlet but not so much from the other side. I do have surge protectors on all my more expensive stuff like the big flatscreen, my computers and their gadgets like the modem, router and printer.

You guys are so smart.
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Old 7th July 2022, 05:01 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
“I can't let you do that, Skeptic Ginger.”
I'm already inside the pod bay, you can't stop me.
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Old 7th July 2022, 06:15 PM   #12
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It is possible that the trouble with both your CD players is a coincidence.
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Old 7th July 2022, 07:52 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
It's broken. Buy a new one.
Or claim them on insurance.
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Old 7th July 2022, 11:12 PM   #14
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Something I learned more than 50 years ago, while in college.
My friend, who drove a 1961 Ford Falcon, took it into a garage in his rural Montana town for something or other. When he got it back, the left turn signal honked the horn and other such irregularities. When he complained to the mechanic he was told a lesson we all should know:
"That 'lectricity, it's tricky stuff!"
I soon changed my major from EE to ME.
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Old 7th July 2022, 11:22 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Something I learned more than 50 years ago, while in college.
My friend, who drove a 1961 Ford Falcon, took it into a garage in his rural Montana town for something or other. When he got it back, the left turn signal honked the horn and other such irregularities. When he complained to the mechanic he was told a lesson we all should know:
"That 'lectricity, it's tricky stuff!"
I soon changed my major from EE to ME.


My last visit was to the car dealer for some routine maintenance and they had to replace the second recalled airbag. When I got it back my left blinker goes off like it's on steroids and the right blinker is faster than normal but not as fast as the left blinker. I didn't mind enough to go back and deal with being without my car again. But the lights themselves blink as fast as the blinkers. I'm afraid that will burn the lights out faster. But like a lot of things, I'm ignoring dealing with it.
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Old 7th July 2022, 11:46 PM   #16
HansMustermann
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm already inside the pod bay, you can't stop me.
Daaisy...
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Old 7th July 2022, 11:46 PM   #17
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A fast turn signal blink usually indicates a burned out bulb (or a non-connected bulb). The circuit uses the bulbs resistance to set the blink speed. A bulb out of circuit changes the blink rate.
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Old 8th July 2022, 11:24 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by LongFuzzy View Post
A fast turn signal blink usually indicates a burned out bulb (or a non-connected bulb). The circuit uses the bulbs resistance to set the blink speed. A bulb out of circuit changes the blink rate.
That's interesting in that they may have changed burned out bulbs. The bulbs do blink though, I checked. If I see the receipt I'll take a look.


On another note, I only just now noticed I left the word 'this' out of the title.
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Old 9th July 2022, 06:24 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
GFIs don't help lightning strikes. Surge protectors do. You can get surge protection in power strips, also making the plugs more accessible.
I like this idea. We have power strips/surge protectors where each outlet has its own on/off switch, and there's also a main one that can turn them all off. And the switches light up too, so you see whether it is on or off. They are not super expensive but they can protect your expensive electronic equipment.
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Old 9th July 2022, 08:43 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That's interesting in that they may have changed burned out bulbs. The bulbs do blink though, I checked. If I see the receipt I'll take a look.


On another note, I only just now noticed I left the word 'this' out of the title.
Blinkers are generally timed according to the net resistance of the circuit. What this means is that, for example, a burned out signal bulb will make the remaining ones blink faster. Or, a wrong wattage bulb the same. A common problem in older cars is a rusty or defective socket which directs the signal to the wrong filament in a two-filament bulb. Two filament taillights, especially, can go wrong this way, as a failed connection or filament in the brake/signal half can seek ground by going through the tail/parking filament, which causes faster blinking because its resistance is higher.

All of which is to say that one thing you might do is put on your blinkers, or four way flashers, and look at all the lights as they flash. If one is dimmer than the others, suspect either a bad bulb or a corroded socket.
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Old 9th July 2022, 09:21 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by LongFuzzy View Post
A fast turn signal blink usually indicates a burned out bulb (or a non-connected bulb). The circuit uses the bulbs resistance to set the blink speed. A bulb out of circuit changes the blink rate.
On my 1964 Corvair, I could tell the ambient temperature by the turn signals.
Below freezing, the right signal would be reluctant to cancel.
At about 15F, the left wouldn't work at all.
At 0F, it signaled right unless the lever was left.
At -20F, it signaled right all the time, regardless. I had to take the flasher out.
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Old 9th July 2022, 09:55 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I like this idea. We have power strips/surge protectors where each outlet has its own on/off switch, and there's also a main one that can turn them all off. And the switches light up too, so you see whether it is on or off. They are not super expensive but they can protect your expensive electronic equipment.
TBH, I haven't even SEEN any power strips that weren't the kind with a switch and surge suppressor, for... dunno... over 20 years, I guess. I certainly don't own one.

So the whole thing feels a bit like this


So, yeah, I guess I should check my privilege. *has a look* Yep, I checked, I still got it
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Old 9th July 2022, 11:41 AM   #23
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Quick note on surge suppressors, in case anyone does not know: they wear out with repeated surges. If you have one of those, and it has a little neon light, the light will start flickering, or eventually go out, when the surge protector has lost its effectiveness. Assume a flickering light means an expired surge protector.
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Old 9th July 2022, 12:07 PM   #24
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I would assume a flickering light on a power strip/surge protector means that they used a neon light and it's been on for a few years. They degrade and start flickering over time and may have zero relationship with any surge protection.

You'd need to check your surge protector documentation to see if the surge protection is monitored and indicated with a light. Some are, many aren't.
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Old 9th July 2022, 01:52 PM   #25
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There are multiple sources of electrical surges. Lighting strikes can generate power surges even if the strike is many hundreds or thousands of feet away. Closer strikes that aren't to power lines but to higher, nearby objects generate a different kind of electrical impulse, rapidly changing, intense, B (magnetic) fields. They, in turn, induce high current/voltage between separate wires that connect to a computer/tv. These can screw up things like coax modem links and ethernet electronics. Any electronics connected to these should go through connections on the surge protector
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Old 9th July 2022, 03:24 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
There are multiple sources of electrical surges. Lighting strikes can generate power surges even if the strike is many hundreds or thousands of feet away. Closer strikes that aren't to power lines but to higher, nearby objects generate a different kind of electrical impulse, rapidly changing, intense, B (magnetic) fields. They, in turn, induce high current/voltage between separate wires that connect to a computer/tv. These can screw up things like coax modem links and ethernet electronics. Any electronics connected to these should go through connections on the surge protector
And there are things that are not counted as 'surges' but happen all the time...

Where I am, the incoming voltage is often as high as 255V, despite many appliances being made for 110/220V.

The power distributor doesn't count anything under 260V as a fault.

I discovered this after having three 'routers' fail in a relatively short period of time (three different make/models).

The ISP recommended that I put in a power conditioning UPS, and that's how I found that the incoming voltage was often very high.

Since then, I've put one of those on all my computer equipment.

But have also noticed TV equipment failing with damaged caps in the power supplies.

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Old 9th July 2022, 07:05 PM   #27
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By the way, the question of whether that flickering pilot light on power strips means anything about the surge protector seems to have about 20 different answers from "never" to "always," depending partly on the strip and partly on who you listen to.

I guess I'm glad I don't live in Australia. Our power (at least here in Vermont) does not fluctuate that badly. I can't guarantee that little spikes and surges don't occur, and certainly dips do, when appliances come on and the like, but the measured voltage stays quite nicely at 120.
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