IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Coronavirus , vaccines

Reply
Old 7th October 2021, 03:43 AM   #2121
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Has there been any progress in the handling of Pfizer vaccines? I ask as my partner's mother is in a care home, and they were vaccinated with the Astrazeneca vaccine partly because it was easier to handle. The boosters are going to be Pfizer, and I was wondering if the logistics were easier now. Getting all the residents to a place where the vaccine is being kept cold is going to be nigh-on impossible.
Yes it has.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...stability-data
__________________
If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th October 2021, 11:09 PM   #2122
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 87,214
Australia hit 30 million vaccination doses today. That's 81.5% first dose and 60.2% second dose.
__________________
So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours.

Three Word Story Wisdom
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2021, 07:14 PM   #2123
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 32,635
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Australia hit 30 million vaccination doses today. That's 81.5% first dose and 60.2% second dose.
That's because of tyrannical government control!
__________________
1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2021, 06:31 AM   #2124
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,539
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Australia hit 30 million vaccination doses today. That's 81.5% first dose and 60.2% second dose.

Percentage of what?! Share of people vaccinated against COVID-19, Oct 11, 2021: AUS
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2021, 11:47 AM   #2125
macdoc
Philosopher
 
macdoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Planet earth on slow boil
Posts: 8,093
Um the population?
https://www.health.gov.au/initiative...ers-statistics
macdoc is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2021, 11:49 AM   #2126
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 14,185
Originally Posted by macdoc View Post
No, a subset of the population.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2021, 01:11 PM   #2127
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 35,981
Originally Posted by macdoc View Post
There are different figures depending on whether you are talking about the population as a whole (which I favour) or the population eligible for a shot (which seems to be the figures arthwollipot was referring to).
__________________
Слава Україні! **** Putin!
angrysoba is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2021, 04:16 PM   #2128
macdoc
Philosopher
 
macdoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Planet earth on slow boil
Posts: 8,093
I think the understood standard is eligible population. Babies not likely to vector covid.
I do think 90% 6 years and up will make very liveable difference in many countries but I'm quite happy with Queensland keeping the borders locked out and no covid so no restrictions other than mandatory contact tracing.

Wait it out...will be a while - should edit the title to End of the Beginning.
macdoc is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2021, 04:53 PM   #2129
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 35,981
Originally Posted by macdoc View Post
I think the understood standard is eligible population. Babies not likely to vector covid.
I do think 90% 6 years and up will make very liveable difference in many countries but I'm quite happy with Queensland keeping the borders locked out and no covid so no restrictions other than mandatory contact tracing.

Wait it out...will be a while - should edit the title to End of the Beginning.
I don't think that is the universally understood standard at all. Most trackers I see that compare countries take in the whole population. The one that you linked to said 63.4% of people over 16, but in many countries you can be vaccinated over the age of 12. It would be silly to compare countries only in terms of eligibility and at the very least a request to clarify does not deserve an eye-roll emoji.
__________________
Слава Україні! **** Putin!
angrysoba is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2021, 05:34 PM   #2130
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 87,214
Yes, in Australia it's generally expressed as the percentage of the population aged 12+, since that's the population that the vaccines are authorised for.
__________________
So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours.

Three Word Story Wisdom
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2021, 09:23 PM   #2131
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 16,140
In the UK it's percentage of the total population that's used (currently 67.4% fully vaccinated).

I prefer that as it's easier to compare with estimates of the percentage required for herd immunity.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2021, 11:00 PM   #2132
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,539
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Yes, in Australia it's generally expressed as the percentage of the population aged 12+, since that's the population that the vaccines are authorised for.

Be careful with that one. Sweden has been doing the same thing, which has led Swedish journalists and politicians to celebrate Sweden's superiority in the field of vaccinations with headlines like, 'Best in the Nordics,' when in fact Sweden was worst. They compared Sweden's percentage of 16+ with the other Nordic countries, which all used percentage of the whole population.
Even without the international comparisons, it confuses people when a country changes its subset of vaccine-eligibles, e.g. from 16+ to 12+.
Since some countries vaccinate 16+, others 12+ (and Cuba 2+), the best percentage for international comparisons is percentage of population. If you use any others, you should make it clear what you are doing.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 12th October 2021 at 11:11 PM.
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2021, 11:41 PM   #2133
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 87,214
Having just said that, the Therapeutic Goods Administration has just issued a release granting a provisional determination to Pfizer for children between 5 and 11:

Quote:
On 12 October 2021, the TGA, part of the Department of Health, granted a provisional determination to Pfizer Australia Pty Ltd in relation to its Covid-19 Vaccine, COMIRNATY.

Currently, COMIRNATY is provisionally approved for use in individuals 12 years of age or older. The granting of this determination means that Pfizer is now eligible to apply to vary the provisional approval for the vaccine to include children aged 5 to 11 years.

This provisional determination is the first step in the process and does not mean that an application for variation has been made by the sponsor - or that any such variation will be provisionally approved by the TGA.

In making its decision to grant Pfizer a provisional determination for use in individuals 5 to 11 years, the TGA considered eligibility criteria, including factors such as the evidence of a plan to submit comprehensive clinical data in relation to use in this age group - and the seriousness of the current Covid-19 pandemic.
Source
__________________
So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours.

Three Word Story Wisdom
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2021, 06:14 AM   #2134
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Administrator
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 57,668
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
In the UK it's percentage of the total population that's used (currently 67.4% fully vaccinated).
Not on the official daily figures; that's been the percentage of the eligible population, and that's changed over time (it's now those aged 12 and up, so currently 85.6% 1st dose, 78.6% 2nd dose).
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2021, 07:49 AM   #2135
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 16,140
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Not on the official daily figures; that's been the percentage of the eligible population, and that's changed over time (it's now those aged 12 and up, so currently 85.6% 1st dose, 78.6% 2nd dose).
Oh.

I get the figure from the Guardian front page (updated daily), which gives percentage of total population, and assumed they were just quoting the official daily figure.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2021, 08:11 AM   #2136
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 35,981
I wonder if there is some “nudge” thinking that goes into reporting eligible numbers. If the numbers are bigger, then those who are not yet vaccinated feel odd ones out. Most people don’t want to be the weirdo contrarians.
__________________
Слава Україні! **** Putin!
angrysoba is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2021, 09:47 PM   #2137
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 28,964
Maybe. But it could also be that the government wants to report a higher percentage because it looks like they are doing a better job. It's good to know both numbers though.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2021, 07:39 PM   #2138
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Segnosaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 20,625
And... its been approved for kids under 12 (in the U.S. at least)....

From: CTV News
U.S. health officials on Tuesday gave the final signoff to Pfizer's kid-size COVID-19 shot...The Food and Drug Administration already authorized the shots for children ages 5 to 11...But the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention formally recommends who should receive FDA-cleared vaccines.

Hopefully my home country (Canada) will do likewise, and it will help limit the spread even more. (Of course there is the question about whether it makes logical sense to vaccinate children in western/wealthy countries when so many countries are having trouble getting doses for even older/more at risk people.)
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2021, 04:55 AM   #2139
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,539
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
(Of course there is the question about whether it makes logical sense to vaccinate children in western/wealthy countries when so many countries are having trouble getting doses for even older/more at risk people.)

I think that this is much like telling kids who won't eat broccoli that poor people in the third world go hungry and would love to have it. There is no real connection between the two things. The medicine companies won't start giving those vaccines to people in poor countries for free if rich countries would only stop buying them. It's not how a market economy works.


ETA: By Nov 15, kids age 2+ in Cuba will have had three shots of the Cuban vaccines.
Quote:
Cuba has been vaccinating children aged 2 to 10 with Cuban-developed vaccines.
Australia may soon follow America in vaccinating children as young as five (The Guardian, Nov 2, 2021)
Daily COVID-19 vaccine doses administered per 100 people
Share of people vaccinated against COVID-19
And it's working.
Daily new confirmed COVID-19 cases per million people
Daily new confirmed COVID-19 deaths per million people

But it won't work as well in the USA as in Cuba. In Cuba, people tend to trust the vaccines, so Cuban parents won't be as vaccine hesitant as parents in the USA. There also aren't many zealous antivaxxers in Cuba to spread the message of stupidity. Education, education, education.

Quote:
Cuba is one of the countries that does not have a recognized antivaccination movement and, in general, PAHO and other expert evaluations have found that parents are both aware of and anxious to vaccinate their children. In 2015, a study in a primary care unit exploring health culture and vaccination in families of children aged <2 years found that vaccination was highly valued. Participants considered vaccinations important, had con¿dence in PNI, and were satis¿ed with health service organization and their care from healthcare providers. Mothers considered vaccinating their children a responsibility, part of protecting their children’s health. In addition, they observed coherence in messages from PNI, traditional mass media and social networks, describing information from these media as science based.
A Cuban Perspective on the Antivaccination Movement (Scientifc Electronic Library Online)

It is obvious that a country like that is an abomination and shouldn't be allowed to exist.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 3rd November 2021 at 05:34 AM.
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2021, 07:34 AM   #2140
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Segnosaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 20,625
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Quote:
(Of course there is the question about whether it makes logical sense to vaccinate children in western/wealthy countries when so many countries are having trouble getting doses for even older/more at risk people.)
I think that this is much like telling kids who won't eat broccoli that poor people in the third world go hungry and would love to have it. There is no real connection between the two things. The medicine companies won't start giving those vaccines to people in poor countries for free if rich countries would only stop buying them. It's not how a market economy works.
True, drug companies wouldn't just donate unused vaccines to poor countries.

Its possible that the wealthier countries could pay for the vaccine doses and give them to the poorer countries. (There are already various mechanisms in place for that.) But that would not happen if wealthy countries are keeping doses for boosters/younger children.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2021, 07:45 AM   #2141
Planigale
Philosopher
 
Planigale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 49 North
Posts: 6,754
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
In the UK it's percentage of the total population that's used (currently 67.4% fully vaccinated).

I prefer that as it's easier to compare with estimates of the percentage required for herd immunity.
I think in most official UK figures it is the number eligible to be vaccinated; that is why the percentage drops when the age range is extended. This is a better measure of performance of the vaccine program. In age groups over 30 it is >90% vaccinated.

With regards to herd immunity, the better figure might be the percent of the population with circulating antibodies, this is routinely surveyed in England, and includes both post vaccination and post infection immunity. But would exclude those who do not develop immunity post vaccination or infection. One observation was that overall immunity was falling (although still >90%) as some of those previously vaccinated or infected lost immunity over time. This was one driver to introducing an early booster (at six months).
Planigale is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2021, 06:50 PM   #2142
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 87,214
The Prime Minister just announced that Australia as a whole will reach 80% of 16+ fully vaccinated by the end of today.

sauce
__________________
So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours.

Three Word Story Wisdom

Last edited by arthwollipot; 4th November 2021 at 06:52 PM. Reason: Added sauce
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2021, 05:27 AM   #2143
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,539
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
True, drug companies wouldn't just donate unused vaccines to poor countries.

Its possible that the wealthier countries could pay for the vaccine doses and give them to the poorer countries. (There are already various mechanisms in place for that.) But that would not happen if wealthy countries are keeping doses for boosters/younger children.

Only if you see it as either or: I think Pfizer's idea is that rich countries buy extra vaccines for children. Even if they don't, the doses are still much smaller for children than for adults:

Quote:
If Pfizer earns the expected thumbs-up from CDC Director Rochelle Walensky this week, children 5 to 11 years old will be getting 10 micrograms of RNA in each Pfizer shot, a third of the 30-microgram recipe that’s given to people 12 and older. Further down the road, pending another set of votes, authorizations, and recommendations, kids 4 and younger will get a wee 3 micrograms, a tenth of what their parents get.
Why Are We Microdosing Vaccines for Kids? (The Atlantic, Nov 2, 2021)
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2021, 05:35 AM   #2144
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,539
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
The Prime Minister just announced that Australia as a whole will reach 80% of 16+ fully vaccinated by the end of today.

sauce

Denmark is now at 88% of 12+, 76% of population fully vaccinated, and the elderly and other particularly susceptible groups have had booster shots, but the number of new infections is rising rapidly as we are heading into winter - unlike Australia.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 5th November 2021 at 05:52 AM.
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2021, 05:47 AM   #2145
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,539
Quote:
SOBERANA 02 is the first conjugated vaccine to be developed against SARS-CoV-2. The vaccine uses the recombinant receptor-binding domain (RBD) of the viral spike protein, chemically attached to the tetanus toxoid antigen in a molar ratio of 6:1 and adsorbed on 500 micrograms (µg) of alumina. Conversely, SOBERANA Plus contains dimeric RBD 50 µg, adsorbed on 1,250 µg alumina, having been developed as a “universal booster.”

With this, SOBERANA 02 joins other conjugated vaccines, such as the protein-polysaccharide conjugated vaccine against Hemophilus influenzae type b, Neisseria meningitidis, and Streptococcus pneumoniae.

With the current experimental vaccine, two doses have been found to elicit neutralizing antibodies, along with both memory B- and T-cells, secreting interferon-gamma (IFN-γ) as well as showing a T-helper cell type 1 (Th1) profile of immunity.

This vaccine could also be used as a heterologous third booster dose to enhance the level of neutralizing anti-RBD antibodies. Following successful Phase 1 and 2a trials, the Phase 3 trial was launched to assess the efficacy and safety profile of two usage patterns of SOBERANA, which include a two-dose regimen of SOBERANA 02, and evaluate this regimen when combined with the third dose of SOBERANA Plus.
Cuba reports 92.4 percent efficacy for 3 dose SOBERANA 02 COVID-19 vaccine (News Medical, Nov 4, 2021)

It seems to be working, but not all Cuban provinces have received the same vaccine. Many have had shots with the other Cuban vaccine Abdala. And at least one province (Cienfuegos, I think) had two shots of the Chinese vaccine and one shot of Soberana Plus as booster shot.
Share of people vaccinated against COVID-19: CUB~USA~AUS~GBR
Daily new confirmed COVID-19 cases per million people: USA~GBR~CUB~AUS
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th November 2021, 06:52 AM   #2146
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Administrator
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 57,668
Vaccine boosters being rolled out a month early, 5 months after 2nd jab instead of 6.

(I haven't been invited yet, I had mine at the end of May, so am already past 5 months.)

ETA: That is a misleading headline, they are inviting people 5 months after their second jab, but the appointment won't be until at least 6 months after it.

The official word is:
Quote:
From Monday 8 November 2021 you'll be able to pre-book an appointment for a booster dose if you're eligible and it's been at least 152 days (5 months) since your 2nd dose.

The appointments you'll be offered will still be from 182 days (6 months) after your 2nd dose.
ETA2: In fact, despite what it says, you can pre-book now; I just booked mine.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20

Last edited by zooterkin; 6th November 2021 at 07:43 AM.
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2021, 10:39 AM   #2147
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Administrator
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 57,668
I'm not sure why it's taking so long to finish vaccinating the eligible population in the UK. Looking at the numbers getting their third jab, it's clearly not a supply issue.

Daily – first dose Daily – second dose Daily – booster or third dose
25,840 14,610 209,885
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20

Last edited by zooterkin; 9th November 2021 at 10:40 AM.
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2021, 11:45 AM   #2148
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,539
I have already mentioned trypanophobia as a likely reason why many people don't get vaccinated. Some people who claim that it is all about freedom may be hiding behind it as an excuse.

This is interesting: Share among unvaccinated people who would get a COVID-19 vaccine this week if it was available to them (Our World in Data)
I think that in all of those countries, there is no "if" at this point. The vaccines actually are available for everybody - of a certain age.
It is astonishing how similar the percentage of people with vaccine hesitancy is on Oct 15, 2021 - between 8.9 and 11.7 percent - except for the two countries, Australia and Japan, where many were still unvaccinated because they didn't yet have access to the vaccines.

Voluntary vaccinations were the way to go for the first seven or eight months of the vaccine rollout, but at this point it seems to be necessary to either make life more difficult for people who aren't vaccinated or to make vaccinations mandatory. The mere threat of reintroducing 'coronavirus passports' as a necessity for people to get access to bars and restaurants etc. has already made more unvaccinated people sign up for vaccinations in Denmark.

The vast majority of the vaccine hesitant probably aren't real antivaxxers, and if they are unvaccinated because of trypanophobia, the fear of unemployment may help them overcome their fear of needles. Some of them may even want to be 'forced' to get vaccinated.
I Denmark, some of the people who claimed that they didn't want the vaccines because they weren't tested well enough now seem to be persuading themselves and each other that since everybody else seem to have survived getting vaccinated, it is probably OK to do so.


Notice that the "between 8.9 and 11.7 percent" corresponds to the 10 percent mentioned here:
Quote:
It is estimated that at least 10% of American adults have a fear of needles, and it is likely that the actual number is larger, as the most severe cases are never documented due to the tendency of the sufferer to avoid all medical treatment. The diagnosis criteria for BII phobias are stricter, with an estimated 3-4% prevalence in the general population, and this also includes blood-related phobias.
Prevalence of fear of needles has been increasing, with two studies showing an increase among children from 25% in 1995 to 65% in 2012 (for those born after 1999). Augusta University professor Amy Baxter attributes this increase to an increase in administration of booster shots around the age of 5, which is old enough to remember and young enough to be more likely to result in formation of a phobia.
Fear of needles: Overview and incidence (Wikipedia)
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2021, 12:02 PM   #2149
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,539
Cuba waited for all school children to get fully vaccinated before they reopened schools yesterday:
¡De regreso a las aulas! (+Video) (Granma.cu, Nov 9, 2021)
Zurück in die Klassenzimmer! (Granma.cu, Nov 9, 2021)
But even so, they are still wearing face masks. (Looks like FFP2 to me.) Apparently, Cubans don't want their children to get long Covid, unlike European countries where children younger than 12 are expected to get immunity by infection ...
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 9th November 2021 at 12:04 PM.
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2021, 04:03 PM   #2150
Fidelio
Graduate Poster
 
Fidelio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The island of Atlanta
Posts: 1,240
"I have already mentioned trypanophobia as a likely reason why many people don't get vaccinated. Some people who claim that it is all about freedom may be hiding behind it as an excuse."

I always inform the heroic health care workers that "I'm gonna flinch" when getting an injection. Regarding COVID I was not sure they actually injected me as I felt nothing. On the other hand when getting a shingles vaccine (cost $250 USD) I wanted something to remember it by. Injections about 90 south of the bicep are quite memorable.
__________________
.. The stars were suns, but so far away they were just little points of light ... The scale of the universe suddenly opened up to me. It was a kind of religious experience. There was a magnificence to it, a grandeur, a scale which has never left me. Never ever left me.
Carl Sagan
Fidelio is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2021, 10:57 PM   #2151
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,539
Since zooterkin was wondering about vaccination rates in the UK:
Quote:
In total, over 85 million doses of the Covid vaccine have been administered across the UK.
But a recent Oxford University survey of more than 15,000 adults in the UK suggests needle phobia accounts for about 10% of Covid vaccine hesitancy.
More than 68% of 18 to 29-year-olds in England have had a first jab, while 88.6% of all UK adults have had one.
Covid vaccine and needle phobia: 'It feels like the world is ending' (BBC News, Aug 6, 2021)
Quote:
No one likes injections, but some people will avoid them at all costs. The thought of a simple procedure involving a needle prick into the skin can induce feelings of anxiety, a rapid heart rate, sweating, dizziness, a drop in blood pressure, and in some instances, even fainting.

The rollout of the Covid-19 vaccines worldwide quickly made it clear that an extreme fear of needles, also known as trypanophobia, would be one of the main reasons contributing to vaccine hesitancy. It is thought to affect around one in 10 people, according to the UK National Health Service (NHS).
How 7 people conquered their needle phobia and got vaccinated against Covid-19 (News24Health, Oct 7 , 2021)

If it affects one in ten people, it is probably much more than ten percent of vaccine hesitancy.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2021, 11:05 PM   #2152
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 87,214
The ACT is now at over 95% of the eligible population double-dosed, and case numbers are in the low teens. Most restrictions are being eased this Friday.
__________________
So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours.

Three Word Story Wisdom
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2021, 10:14 AM   #2153
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
Does anyone know how long the Moderna booster shot takes to reach full efficacy?
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2021, 10:42 AM   #2154
Chanakya

 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,704
Originally Posted by Fidelio View Post
"I have already mentioned trypanophobia as a likely reason why many people don't get vaccinated. Some people who claim that it is all about freedom may be hiding behind it as an excuse."

I always inform the heroic health care workers that "I'm gonna flinch" when getting an injection. Regarding COVID I was not sure they actually injected me as I felt nothing. On the other hand when getting a shingles vaccine (cost $250 USD) I wanted something to remember it by. Injections about 90 south of the bicep are quite memorable.

Heh, same here. My second shot, I was just a bit distracted, I guess I might have been either saying something (or listening to someone saying something to me) just at that point, and before I realized it it was done. I remember wondering at that point, Hey, did she actually plunge the thing in, or did she just somehow pretend to?! Yeah I know, silly thought, which is why I didn't say anything about it, either to the nurse or to anyone else at all. This is the first I've spoken of it, or, I guess, the first I've even thought of it, since then.
Chanakya is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2021, 10:51 AM   #2155
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 36,113
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Does anyone know how long the Moderna booster shot takes to reach full efficacy?
I heard two weeks but cannot now recall whether it was official or just an estimate, probably from the weekly VT government update.

Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Heh, same here. My second shot, I was just a bit distracted, I guess I might have been either saying something (or listening to someone saying something to me) just at that point, and before I realized it it was done. I remember wondering at that point, Hey, did she actually plunge the thing in, or did she just somehow pretend to?! Yeah I know, silly thought, which is why I didn't say anything about it, either to the nurse or to anyone else at all. This is the first I've spoken of it, or, I guess, the first I've even thought of it, since then.
Oddly, although I barely felt the first two Moderna shots, I had quite a sore arm from the booster. I hardly felt the needle at all, but the reaction came on later and lasted almost exactly 24 hours before fading away.

By contrast, my wife, who got the Pfizer, had a fair amount of soreness and reaction from the first two, and nothing from the booster, leading her to wonder, like some others, if it had taken. I don't know what the variables are here - maybe just what bit of muscle fiber the needle hits.
__________________
Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière)

A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2021, 07:47 AM   #2156
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 28,964
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Does anyone know how long the Moderna booster shot takes to reach full efficacy?
2 weeks after second dose.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2021, 08:37 AM   #2157
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 36,113
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
2 weeks after second dose.
the booster should be the third dose, 6 + months after the second. But as far as I know it is still estimated at two weeks.

By then the glow-in-the-dark nanobots will have distributed themselves and finished pairing their signals with the secret monitors in your refrigerator, and will be sending your brainwaves to the illuminati, who will, with their usual efficiency, use them to burn your toast for the next few decades until you cry out in frustration, "I'm going to buy a new toaster," revealing your secret passwords, as one does in such situations. They will then, with their usual panache, use the information to send you an unwanted garden gnome. You will never understand why there are suddenly ants in your kitchen, but you should be very afraid.

Two weeks. Enjoy it while you can!
__________________
Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière)

A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2021, 11:04 PM   #2158
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,539
If that is what you expect ...

Quote:
“We found a clear link between what people expected and what they experienced,” said Kelly Clemens, a UToledo doctoral student studying experimental psychology and paper co-author. “Those psychological factors are predictive over and above the other factors that we knew were involved in predicting side effects, such as the specific vaccine someone received, their age or whether they previously had COVID-19.”
In addition to helping to explain why some of us felt so crummy after vaccination and others did not, Geers and Clemens said the study also could provide important clues for overcoming some of the lingering vaccine hesitancy — both for first timers who are worried about side effects and those who become eligible for a booster dose but don’t want to go through the ordeal again.
“This really shows the power of expectations and beliefs, even in something that we know is very physical,” Geers said. “It appears that the effect that comes out of the vaccine is being shaped by psychology — by expectations and worry. If we’re able to reframe and think about side effects differently, it might reduce the experience of side effects.”
Expectation shapes reality: Psychological factors predict COVID vaccine side effects (EurekAlert, Nov 4, 2021)

A Danish professor of psychology mentions that ...
Quote:
- If you tell people that 95 percent don't get any side effects, fewer will get them than if you say that only five percent get side effects.
Nocebo-effekten spiller ind: Frygt for bivirkninger ved coronavaccine kan gøre dig syg (DR.dk, Nov 11, 2021)
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2021, 06:32 AM   #2159
W.D.Clinger
Philosopher
 
W.D.Clinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,759
Here is a plot, for states of the United States, showing case rates versus vaccination rates. (I posted this graph yesterday in the thread on Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories Part III, but the graph and data are more appropriate for this thread.)



That's a straightforward plot of data obtained from
Here are the numerical data from which the plot was generated:
Code:
41.12  15607  # West Virginia
44.37  16711  # Idaho
44.53  18436  # Wyoming
45.16  17079  # Alabama
46.19  17061  # Mississippi
47.94  20133  # North Dakota
48.04  16426  # Louisiana
48.12  18922  # Tennessee
48.43  17154  # Arkansas
48.78  15493  # Georgia
50.12  15447  # Indiana
50.15  14202  # Missouri
50.47  17581  # South Carolina
50.58  16444  # Oklahoma
50.96  17142  # Montana
51.16  16944  # Kentucky
52.21  13566  # Ohio
53.08  19725  # Alaska
53.25  14280  # North Carolina
53.43  17953  # South Dakota
53.48  14495  # Nevada
53.60  16476  # Arizona
53.67  15304  # Kansas
53.76  14744  # Texas
53.85  13308  # Michigan
54.35  17707  # Utah
55.95  15825  # Iowa
56.63  15146  # Nebraska
58.72  15685  # Wisconsin
60.13   6029  # Hawaii
60.20  17233  # Florida
60.48  15043  # Delaware
61.04  13634  # Illinois
61.30  12561  # Pennsylvania
61.61  14747  # Minnesota
61.87  12617  # California
62.10  13458  # Colorado
62.57  13762  # New Mexico
63.16   9233  # District of Columbia
63.24   8924  # Oregon
63.37  10478  # New Hampshire
63.70  11010  # Virginia
64.03   9801  # Washington
66.38   9394  # Maryland
66.79  13639  # New Jersey
67.28  13385  # New York 
70.12  12612  # Massachusetts
71.15  11409  # Connecticut
71.17   8153  # Maine
71.44  17226  # Rhode Island
71.77   6877  # Vermont
W.D.Clinger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2021, 09:51 AM   #2160
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,539
That is pretty convincing, but I assume that the best vaccinated states are also more likely to have other measures in place, like mask mandates, for instance.
I am surprised to see that even Vermont is behind so many Western European countries. Share of people vaccinated against COVID-19
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:41 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.