Continuation The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread pt. 2

[Captain_Swoop]

Trump Retweeted

Lou Dobbs
@LouDobbs
Trump says coronavirus vaccine deliveries will start next week
The comments come ahead of a Dec. 10 meeting where FDA regulators will review Pfizer and BioNTech's request for an emergency use authorization for their COVID-19 vaccine.
foxnews.com

[Trebuchet]

I predict that Trump will demand his signature be printed on the handout sheets you get when vaccinated.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by slyjoe

Here is a nice list of stems, prefixes, roots, and suffixes for drugs.

https://mynursingmastery.com/blog/dr...s-and-suffixes

Thanks. Very useful.

[Resume]

From Worldometer:

Quote:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
13,454,254
Deaths:
271,026

New cases:
164,012

New Deaths:
1,364

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Trump Retweeted

Lou Dobbs
@LouDobbs
Trump says coronavirus vaccine deliveries will start next week
The comments come ahead of a Dec. 10 meeting where FDA regulators will review Pfizer and BioNTech's request for an emergency use authorization for their COVID-19 vaccine.
foxnews.com

What's funny in a very, very dark way is that Trump won't be remembered for the vaccine. He's going to be remembered for the blood bath that will be the next two months.

[Solitaire]

I just saw a report saying Tennessee has two thousand ICU beds at ninety percent capacity
and in a month nothing will remain open.

Scary times.

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by Craig4

What's funny in a very, very dark way is that Trump won't be remembered for the vaccine. He's going to be remembered for the blood bath that will be the next two months.

In the near term, about 48% of the electorate will believe he is solely responsible for creating the vaccine.

[newyorkguy]

More bad news as the U.S surpassed 200,000 case in a single day for the first time. We broke 100,000 cases in a single day a little over three weeks ago. Health experts are also warning, as the nation moves into the holiday season the numbers may become erratic, possibly giving the illusion the virus spread is easing when it may not be.

Quote:

The U.S. reported more than 200,000 COVID-19 cases for the first time on Friday, an all-time high reached about three weeks after the nation first reported 100,000 daily cases on Nov. 4. The nation recorded 205,557 new cases Friday. That rapid doubling, as reported by Johns Hopkins University, is reminiscent of the virus' growth this spring, when exponential spread prompted widespread restrictions across the country in an effort to control the virus...But experts warn that coronavirus testing numbers are likely to be erratic over the next week or so as fewer people get tested during the Thanksgiving holiday weekend and testing sites observe shorter hours. The result could be potential dips in reported infections that offer the illusion that the spread of the virus is easing when, in fact, the numbers say little about where the nation stands in fighting COVID-19. USA Today article link

From an article in Forbes a month ago.

Quote:

President Trump has said the United States is “rounding the turn” – or “corner” or “bend” – on the coronavirus pandemic with shocking consistency over the last two months, a period in which average daily cases have risen sharply. Forbes link

What the hell is trump saying now? If he has one shred of decency left, he needs to address this.

[Resume]

From Worldometer:

Quote:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
13,610,357
Deaths:
272,254

New Cases:
143,373
New Deaths:
1,216

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

More bad news as the U.S surpassed 200,000 case in a single day for the first time. We broke 100,000 cases in a single day a little over three weeks ago. Health experts are also warning, as the nation moves into the holiday season the numbers may become erratic, possibly giving the illusion the virus spread is easing when it may not be.


From an article in Forbes a month ago.

What the hell is trump saying now? If he has one shred of decency left, he needs to address this.

And Covid is now play9ing havoc with the NFL season;a game which could well decide who goes to the SUperbowl has been postponed, and the 49ers have to find a new place to play becuase Santa Clara county just banned all contact sports.

Yeah we will never hear of vCovid after the election.

[newyorkguy]

New York, especially the downstate area, could possibly be in line for more state-mandated shutdowns as cases continue to rise.

Quote:

The coronavirus pandemic continued its resurgence in New York on Saturday, with metrics presented by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo on Sunday showing the public health crisis is reaching levels not seen in the state in months..."This is a new phase for COVID," the governor warned on a conference call with reporters on Sunday. "The numbers are going up. Not as fast as in other states, but the numbers are going up."...The rise in hospitalizations is particularly worrisome, Cuomo said, as it could strain the capacity of hospitals to care for sick patients if the trend continues. Cuomo said he would discuss on Monday a plan to combat the virus through the winter. Newsday link (normally paywalled)

We'll be watching to see what is announced this week. At my job, and in the neighborhood, most of the people I know prefer to err on the side of caution. Quite a few have predicted we may be headed for another non-essential business shutdown and we all agree, that would be okay. One man, a trump fanatic, was making noise about New York ordering holiday gatherings be limited in size. He angrily said Cuomo could go screw himself. This man said he would have at least thirty people to his home for Thanksgiving, family and friends. Ironically, I think most of the guests didn't show up.

New York City has seen cases increase. Friday we recorded over 2,500 new cases, the most since early May but still many fewer than the peak in mid-April when we were at or over 8,000 per day.

[Resume]

From Worldometer:

Quote:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
13,750,404
Deaths:
273,072

New Cases:
138,188
New Deaths:
819

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

New York, especially the downstate area, could possibly be in line for more state-mandated shutdowns as cases continue to rise.


We'll be watching to see what is announced this week. At my job, and in the neighborhood, most of the people I know prefer to err on the side of caution. Quite a few have predicted we may be headed for another non-essential business shutdown and we all agree, that would be okay. One man, a trump fanatic, was making noise about New York ordering holiday gatherings be limited in size. He angrily said Cuomo could go screw himself. This man said he would have at least thirty people to his home for Thanksgiving, family and friends. Ironically, I think most of the guests didn't show up.

New York City has seen cases increase. Friday we recorded over 2,500 new cases, the most since early May but still many fewer than the peak in mid-April when we were at or over 8,000 per day.

It's just the blue states!

[Minoosh]

I think maybe it's sinking in with some people that Covid is a real thing and that hospital ICU beds are probably facing a serious crunch.

At the same time, not a lot of people are looking forward to more shutdowns.

Something's got to give, but I don't know what.

[newyorkguy]

Dr Anthony Fauci is predicting rising numbers.

Quote:

The nation’s top infectious disease expert said Sunday that the U.S. may see “surge upon a surge” of the coronavirus in the weeks after Thanksgiving, and he does not expect current recommendations around social distancing to be relaxed before Christmas...Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told ABC’s “This Week” that the level of infection in the U.S. would not "all of a sudden turn around. So clearly in the next few weeks, we’re going to have the same sort of thing. And perhaps even two or three weeks down the line ... we may see a surge upon a surge,” he said. Philadelphia Inquirer link

If the standard incubation period for Covid-19 is 10-14 days, I too am wondering what the numbers look like by say December 10th, when people infected over Thanksgiving weekend start getting sick.

By the way, polling still shows upwards of 70% of those polled would support -- from 'very likely' to 'somewhat likely' -- another shutdown if it is deemed necessary by public health officials. But people like that don't make news. Someone who says they will never support a shutdown, that this isn't the Soviet Union, that attracts views.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

What's up with Britain? How is the US behind them?

The Bouffant Buffoon and his cronies.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

In the near term, about 48% of the electorate will believe he is solely responsible for creating the vaccine.

For now, but history is not written by the illiterate.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

Dr Anthony Fauci is predicting rising numbers.


If the standard incubation period for Covid-19 is 10-14 days, I too am wondering what the numbers look like by say December 10th, when people infected over Thanksgiving weekend start getting sick.

By the way, polling still shows upwards of 70% of those polled would support -- from 'very likely' to 'somewhat likely' -- another shutdown if it is deemed necessary by public health officials. But people like that don't make news. Someone who says they will never support a shutdown, that this isn't the Soviet Union, that attracts views.

One of the things that I think will change on January 20, if not sooner, is that we will have scientists that aren't interfered with, and can actually formulate a plan that won't be overridden by a guy watching his reelection chances.

The problem with the lockdowns in the US was that they were never part of a grand strategy. The federal government never provided the leadership. Lockdowns can't be long term, so they only make sense if they are followed up by testing and contact tracing that leads to containment. That probably was never realistic for the US, but it certainly wasn't realistic with Trump and the helm sticking his fingers in the pie.

[thaiboxerken]

Right now, Fauci's role seems to be MOTO. Master of the obvious. Sadly, even his extreme qualifications as a doctor don't matter to the Trumpanzees and he's only pointing out the obvious.

[Captain_Swoop]

Trump Tweets

Moderna now applying for Emergency Vaccine Approval..
@US_FDA MUST ACT QUICKLY!!! “Operation Warp Speed has been a great modern day miracle.”

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Trump Tweets

Moderna now applying for Emergency Vaccine Approval..
@US_FDA MUST ACT QUICKLY!!! “Operation Warp Speed has been a great modern day miracle.”

And also a blinding flash of the obvious. If Jill freaking Stein had won in 2016 she would have accelerated vaccine development, approval and production. The president's real job was to figure out how we could live and function with the virus without overloading our hospitals while we were waiting for the vaccine. In that, he failed miserably.

[slyjoe]

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

Right now, Fauci's role seems to be MOTO. Master of the obvious. Sadly, even his extreme qualifications as a doctor don't matter to the Trumpanzees and he's only pointing out the obvious.

Fauci as Captain Obvious:

[Aridas]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

One of the things that I think will change on January 20, if not sooner, is that we will have scientists that aren't interfered with, and can actually formulate a plan that won't be overridden by a guy watching his reelection chances.

The problem with the lockdowns in the US was that they were never part of a grand strategy. The federal government never provided the leadership. Lockdowns can't be long term, so they only make sense if they are followed up by testing and contact tracing that leads to containment. That probably was never realistic for the US, but it certainly wasn't realistic with Trump and the helm sticking his fingers in the pie.

Just to be clear here, I quite disagree with that sentiment. That the Trump Administration and Republican propagandists sabotaged efforts in many ways across the board may make it look a bit like that, but... it's really not the case. Just imagine, for a moment, what would fairly certainly have happened if Hillary had been President, though. Even ignoring that it would have been much more likely to have been crushed while it was still almost exclusively in China, there's lots and lots of points of divergence. The Pandemic response team and protocols would fairly certainly have been adhered to, for example, with more useful intra- and inter-government coordination. Hillary, and just about anyone else sensible, would have acted to try to impede and prepare for potential spread since before it arrived, which would help quite a lot when it comes to keeping it under control from the start, rather than trying to put out a fire that's already raging through the walls around you. Going further, you likely know as well as I do that most of right-wing media would be screaming their heads off about how the Democrats were responsible for every single death and putting pressure on everyone to take Covid-19 seriously - which they could do with dramatically more leeway, because it wouldn't have been anywhere close to as bad of a crisis.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Aridas

Just to be clear here, I quite disagree with that sentiment.

I certainly don't have any sort of inside information that says one way or another. I was just figuring that we ought to have been able to do as well as the average European country, but I don't see any reason we should have been able to do better than the best large European countries. So, way back when the first lockdown started happening, I envisioned that there would be several weeks of fairly tight lockdown, during which cases would drop to a very low number, and then we would have such a high testing capacity that we could swat the case numbers down everywhere they popped up.

That expectation doesn't seem realistic in retrospect, just based on the fact that only a few nations managed to achieve it, and the ones who did are islands, or are not very densely populated.

We could have done a lot better than we did, but I'm not sure it was realistic to think we could have done better than Germany.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Trump Tweets

Moderna now applying for Emergency Vaccine Approval..
@US_FDA MUST ACT QUICKLY!!! “Operation Warp Speed has been a great modern day miracle.”

Like anyone is dragging their feet without Trump's help.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Aridas

Just to be clear here, I quite disagree with that sentiment. That the Trump Administration and Republican propagandists sabotaged efforts in many ways across the board may make it look a bit like that, but... it's really not the case. Just imagine, for a moment, what would fairly certainly have happened if Hillary had been President, though. Even ignoring that it would have been much more likely to have been crushed while it was still almost exclusively in China, there's lots and lots of points of divergence. The Pandemic response team and protocols would fairly certainly have been adhered to, for example, with more useful intra- and inter-government coordination. Hillary, and just about anyone else sensible, would have acted to try to impede and prepare for potential spread since before it arrived, which would help quite a lot when it comes to keeping it under control from the start, rather than trying to put out a fire that's already raging through the walls around you. Going further, you likely know as well as I do that most of right-wing media would be screaming their heads off about how the Democrats were responsible for every single death and putting pressure on everyone to take Covid-19 seriously - which they could do with dramatically more leeway, because it wouldn't have been anywhere close to as bad of a crisis.

I agree, contact tracing would have been feasible had we acted in Feb when we had plenty of warning.

It was not exclusively in China, it had reached the EU and adjacent countries by then.

I can attest to our local public health (part of the CDC) not only being caught unaware, they had to be embarrassed by family members of the Life Care Center nursing home holding a press conference before they acted to interrupt the spread there. ED docs receiving the patients from that home only found the COVID outbreak there because they refused to follow interim CDC guidelines that they didn't need to test anyone without an exposure history.

Even after the outbreak was identified, help was promised several times that never materialized.

And proper contact tracing was not done on the first patient, a man who showed up at the Everett hospital, who had arrived from Wuhan. He did fit the criteria. But our state has strangled public health abilities through funding cuts (for which the GOP state senators were responsible for) So no one went looking for anyone he had exposed before he was admitted to the hospital.

We get regular notices if a person with measles has been on an airplane but no one thought to even do that much for COVID.

Lo and behold another patient turned up on a flu screening. When it wasn't flu they tested for COVID. At that point a genomic analysis found all three were related, the Everett patient, all the nursing home patients and the random guy across town with an infection that wasn't flu.

It was at that point the virus was thought to be too widespread for contact tracing. I suspect that would have been different had we been prepared with sufficient testing supplies.

To connect the guy across town to the Everett patient (40+ miles away) the virus had to have been transmitted by asymptomatic persons and because of the speed of spread it was very likely airborne. With additional evidence confirming this, it was pretty clear airborne and asymptomatic spread was indeed occurring.

When was it the CDC interim guidelines were updated to recognize those two facts? Months after the science was there.

Fauci made excuses for why he ignored the science. I don't buy it. He was reluctant because he tried to compromise with Trump's politics.

He has since made amends with the excuses and essentially cutting ties with Trump. But I don't believe his excuses. I don't believe he was staying as current with the facts as he should have been.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I certainly don't have any sort of inside information that says one way or another. I was just figuring that we ought to have been able to do as well as the average European country, but I don't see any reason we should have been able to do better than the best large European countries. So, way back when the first lockdown started happening, I envisioned that there would be several weeks of fairly tight lockdown, during which cases would drop to a very low number, and then we would have such a high testing capacity that we could swat the case numbers down everywhere they popped up.

That expectation doesn't seem realistic in retrospect, just based on the fact that only a few nations managed to achieve it, and the ones who did are islands, or are not very densely populated.

We could have done a lot better than we did, but I'm not sure it was realistic to think we could have done better than Germany.

What state are you in? Have public health services been cut time and time again in your state?

I have first hand knowledge that our state public health, with Trump being responsible to a large degree, could have done much better had they been properly funded over the last 2 decades and had Trump not ignored the problem.

If our CDC had taken the world leadership role it was well known for in the past, even Germany could have done better.

[Stacyhs]

Dr. Scott Atlas has resigned. I doubt his presence will be missed.

[Resume]

From Worldometer:

Quote:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
13,919,870
Deaths:
274,332

New Cases:
161,568
New Deaths:
1,238

[newyorkguy]

Today Governor Andrew Cuomo released a five point plan for controlling the surge in Covid-19 cases in New York State. Cuomo said any renewed shutdown -- non-essential businesses closed, stay-at-home orders issued -- will depend on the availability of hospital beds. Cuomo warned that the holiday season is sure to cause an uptick in new cases which are already increasing, and increasing dramatically.

Quote:

If a region of the state is staring down a crisis-level shortage of hospital beds, Cuomo said he could re-implement his New York on PAUSE order, which in the spring shut down all non-essential businesses, ended elective surgeries and canceled all non-essential gatherings. "It's a different phase that we're entering now, and we've been working on it over the weekend," Cuomo said Monday. "We've been spending a lot of time talking to hospital administrators, local officials all across the state this weekend to design a strategy going into this new phase." Link to Rochester NY (upstate) newspaper

As I mentioned, most of the people I know from family, friends, neighbors and co-workers generally support the idea of another shutdown if necessary. We all seem to understand that this pandemic could really get out of control unless we use caution.

New York stayed on lockdown from March through early June. We got good results. The lockdown wasn't ended until the state's regions hit certain targets. Most important was x number of days with case numbers in decline. This was as recommended by the White House guidelines, though trump played partisan politics and failed to enforce or even talk about these guidelines. Compare New York's results with Arizona. Arizona began to reopen BEFORE cases were in decline, reopening after they'd leveled off. Look at the results that produced. It was an extra month but it made a h-u-g-e difference.

[Ladewig]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

Last summer Dr Anthony Fauci warned that if states didn't reduce the virus they faced disaster come Fall. In response, president trump called him an idiot and said a few embers might ignite in the Fall but we would take care of them quickly.


A lot of Americans listened to trump, apparently believed him. They chose not to wear face masks, social distance or curtail activities. Who was the idiot? In fact, I think you could make a strong case that what trump did was outright criminal.

I’m not a lawyer. I just poke around the internet.

The standard for gross negligence is having absolutely no concern at all for the victims. If a defendant can show there was at least a little concern, then it is not gross negligence.

I think President Chucklehead meets the standard. I don’t think he has ever cared about the people who, from Trump’s perspective, can be labeled the nameless unwashed masses.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Dr. Scott Atlas has resigned. I doubt his presence will be missed.

next stop peddling snake oil in small towns in Iowa.

[newyorkguy]

We passed 11 million cases on November 13th, 12 million on November 19th and 13 million cases on November 25th. We're going to pass 14 million cases sometime today, probably this afternoon.

[Captain_Swoop]

trump retweeting covid conspiracy threads about empty hospitals in Nevada.


Trump Tweeted
Fake election results in Nevada, also!
Quote Tweet

NetworkinVegas.com
@Networkinvegas
Here is the fake Nevada parking garage hospital picture that our moron governor tweeted, proving it’s all a scam. No patients, folded up beds, wrapped up equipment that’s never been used! They spent millions on this scam and never seen a single patient in this fake hospital!

Picture in link

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...71177005867008

[slyjoe]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

trump retweeting covid conspiracy threads about empty hospitals in Nevada.


Trump Tweeted
Fake election results in Nevada, also!
Quote Tweet

NetworkinVegas.com
@Networkinvegas
Here is the fake Nevada parking garage hospital picture that our moron governor tweeted, proving it’s all a scam. No patients, folded up beds, wrapped up equipment that’s never been used! They spent millions on this scam and never seen a single patient in this fake hospital!

Picture in link

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...71177005867008

Casinos?

[Delphic Oracle]

The Biden transition team is using a lot of phrases like "open and safe", "strong economic jumpstart" and "delivering relief."

So still marching in the exact opposite direction needed, but wrapped up in a lot more irrepressible optimism.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

The Biden transition team is using a lot of phrases like "open and safe", "strong economic jumpstart" and "delivering relief."

So still marching in the exact opposite direction needed, but wrapped up in a lot more irrepressible optimism.

What direction do you think we need?

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

What direction do you think we need?

But total gloom and despair are so edgy and cool...

[Roger Ramjets]

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

The Biden transition team is using a lot of phrases like "open and safe", "strong economic jumpstart" and "delivering relief."

So still marching in the exact opposite direction needed, but wrapped up in a lot more irrepressible optimism.

The Biden Plan for an Effective Re-Opening that Jumpstarts the Economy

Quote:

A stronger, more effective reopening requires doing the work to keep workers safe, to restore consumer confidence, to support small businesses, to ensure seniors can participate, and to provide parents with the help they need to get back to work. Trump has a one-point plan for all of this – put up the “Open for Business” sign and then just see what happens. That isn’t going to fix the economy that Trump broke or minimize the risk of COVID-19 resurging...

To meet the first two challenges, Biden has an eight-part plan to make sure the reopening is safe and strong and sets the foundation for an economy that works for everyone...

No worker should be forced to give up benefits and return to work under unsafe conditions...

No one should have to choose between their paycheck and their health...

The economy will not fully come back until consumers feel safe again...

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

The Biden transition team is using a lot of phrases like "open and safe", "strong economic jumpstart" and "delivering relief."

So still marching in the exact opposite direction needed, but wrapped up in a lot more irrepressible optimism.

Unfortunately for presidential candidates, after they win the election, they have to actually govern. As a candidate, you can promise anything, but as a President, you can't deliver. I just hope that they listen to scientists instead of imposing their own judgements. That would be a step up. Sadly, even after getting rid of Trump, there aren't any miracle cures.