|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
![]() |
#681 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,881
|
|
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#682 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,881
|
|
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#683 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#684 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 3,137
|
Well. You need computer on internet. That's about it.
You start account on any exchange, transfer BTC from your wallet to exchange, which is the biggest loss of value, as you have to pay the cloud for the transaction. After that, flipping BTC to USD and back on the exchange is fast and cheap. Then you have to send USD from exchange to your bank, which is usually also pretty cheap. For quick and small investing you keep your BTC at the exchange, selling it in relatively short term. If you want to use BTC as currency, you have to use the BTC->BTC transfer, and of course, money on exchange are not really yours, so if you want the BTC to be really yours, you have to transfer any BTC you buy to your private wallet, and pay for the transaction again. I certainly wouldn't call it hard. But depends on your computer literacy. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#685 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 3,137
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#686 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#687 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 3,137
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#688 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#689 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 3,137
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#690 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#691 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 3,137
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#692 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#693 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 3,137
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#694 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
What are you babbling about? You're the one who put them in quotation marks to begin with.
The BTC are lost, and it may be very difficult or impossible to recover them. Wouldn't you call that a risk associated with trading BTC?
Quote:
The thing, of course, is that if you call these posters' bluff, they'll just pretend that you can't support your claim. it's a nice trick that allows them to perpetually deny evidence presented, and which shows that dishonesty is a lot easier than honesty. https://www.investopedia.com/news/20...e-study-shows/ https://nypost.com/2018/05/26/i-acci...th-of-bitcoin/ https://fortune.com/2017/11/25/lost-bitcoins/ https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/man-...-him-look.html Now, you can argue as I have that this is mostly their own fault, but it's risk that you normally don't run with a bank account with actual money in it. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#695 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,881
|
If you are trying to suggest that all arguments in this thread against bitcoin are sound then you have long abandoned any pretense of debating this topic critically.
If you wanted to remind us that bitcoin wallets can be lost or stolen then fine but don't suggest that the blockchain is somehow faulty. Only somebody who was totally ignorant would make such a remark. And there we have it. Bitcoin is "not real". That is what is driving your irrational fear of bitcoin. |
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#696 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
Wow, that's pretty bad logic, right there. I'll let you think about why what you said has no relation to what you were responding to.
Quote:
Quote:
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#697 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 3,137
|
No, it was you in post 690.
No, I genuinely wondered what you are talking about. And the fact you wrote "lost" confused me even more. You made it sounds like BTC can just vanish , by itself. Besides all these being user error, it's not like the wallet is lost. You just don't have access to it. IMHO it's important, if technical, detail. Bitcoins itself won't vanish, not wallets. And yes, money in bank cannot be lost this way. Your physical wallet can be. Brick of gold too. Actually I thought you are speaking about exchange hacks, which are quite common, sadly. Sure, you are only vulnerable as long as you keep your money on the exchange .. but for short term trading, that's what you usually do. You simply explained yourself poorly, and when asked, didn't improve it a bit, only made it worse. If you linked one case in your first post, all would be easier. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#698 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
My mistake. Yes, lost.
Quote:
Quote:
The point is that BTC can be lost in ways that are not usually risks with investments. That is a risk of BTC, which is why I brought it up when it was asked. I don't know why it was so controversial when it turns out you know what I was talking about. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#699 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 7,350
|
For those of you wanting some Bitcoin related infortainment,
All Lawyers Are Bastards (ALAB), has a podcast episode covering the Faketoshi lawsuits. It's a lawsuit about a guy claiming to be behind the creation of Bitcoin who allegedly stole a bunch of bitcoins worth billions of dollars from his dead business partner. The man, Craig Wright, claims to 1/3 of the group behind Satoshi Nakamoto, though is widely regarded as a liar, hence "Faketoshi". It's an interesting lawsuit because Craig is a repeat liar and digs an immensely deep whole for himself throughout the legal process. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000449092346 |
__________________
Gobble gobble |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#700 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,881
|
You claimed that the amount of nutcasery in this thread would drop to zero if I didn't post here. If you don't believe that the arguments by others are sound then you were telling a bald faced lie.
Then you are totally ignorant. Bitcoin wallets can be lost or stolen, exchanges or personal computers can be hacked but nobody can hack the blockchain. You should learn a few facts about this new fangled technology before you go off half cocked and attack any arguers who don't denounce bitcoin. Your post distinguished between bitcoin and "real" money and "real" commodities. You can't squirm your way out of this one. |
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#701 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,253
|
It's also good for purchasing certain goods and services equivalent to billions of dollars annually.
Your wording is a bit ambiguous so to be clear people can lose their wallets or have them stolen/ hacked but there is no glitch or hacking of Btc or its blockchain such that your wallet disappears. |
__________________
Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#702 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
Yes I did. You replied with something about sound arguments. I said nothing about that.
Quote:
Quote:
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#703 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#704 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,193
|
Investing involves risk but that isn’t the same thing as gambling. Investors don’t play the part of the gambler they are playing the part of the casino and look to leverage underlying trends in their favor to come out ahead in the long term. Since bitcoin price is almost entirely a function of speculators betting against each other, there is no legal advantage to be had.
|
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen" |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#705 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,881
|
|
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#706 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,881
|
A large factor in the price of bitcoin is "hodling". People buy them and hang onto them. The more people that do this, the more upward pressure on the bitcoin price.
Obviously, this effect is swamped by the activities of speculators but we are not talking about "bitcoin casino". |
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#707 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#708 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,272
|
Send your rat poison to these good citizens.
https://decrypt.co/35702/bill-gates-...e=trading-view His tweet comes just moments after Elon Musk's account was hacked. Musk's account made a very similar tweet pointed users to the same Bitcoin address. That address has since received 5.8 Bitcoin ($54,000) from victims of the attack. Elon Musk's official account then replied to Bill Gates, calling him his brother. This fake endorsement was likely to convince more people that the scam was genuine. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#709 |
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,485
|
Here's an entirely incidental snippet that any bitcoin noobs reading this -- like yours truly! -- might find interesting.
People keep talking here about "hodling". Clearly a typo, right? But one saw the term used far too often for that. So I thought to ask, but before typing the question here, ran a one-word search on google. Turns out hodling is, indeed, a thing. Except it means exactly the same as holding, spelt the old-fashioned away, but when applied to bitcoin and to cryptoinvestments generally, that's how you spell it. And why? Because apparently some years ago, a poster on a bitcoin message board, who happened to be drunk, misspelt the word, and the "hodl" spelling caught on thereafter! |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#710 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 3,137
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#711 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,281
|
Quote:
Now that everyone can see where Bitcoin's true potential lies, I bet the price is going to the Moon! |
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#712 |
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,485
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#713 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,281
|
That's right, and true alpha HODLers do it forever!
Bitcoin will never die while people continue to HODL, because it will always have value to them - even if the price drops to zero. Since they never intend to sell, the price is irrelevant! But for others it's a different story. With everyone HODLing there will be no speculation and no mining - just the equivalent of keeping expired banknotes in a tin box under your bed. |
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#714 |
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,485
|
Thing is, as a concept, bitcoin is actually brilliant. No reason why, going forward, some cryptocurrency/ies might not provide, in practice, what bitcoin promised, back when. (Or, of course, not. But it's possible, I suppose. After all, the dollar as reserve currency makes no more sense, when you think about it -- even less, if anything! -- than this. So if people could work out the glitches and come up with something after learning from the bitcoin misadventure, well, why not?)
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#715 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 3,137
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#716 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,253
|
|
__________________
Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#717 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,253
|
|
__________________
Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#718 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,272
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#719 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#720 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,253
|
And? What does this have to do with what you're responding to? Are you trying to say when people scam your fiat money it's easier to spend those ill gotten gains and you can spend it on a greater variety of things?
It is good at it, for a certain subset of goods and services. That's why there are billions in sales. |
__________________
Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
|
|