Continuation The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread pt. 2

[newyorkguy]

Originally Posted by bruto

I may have missed this upthread, but just in case it's new....

White house cancels NIH coronavirus study

From the link:

Quote:

The National Institutes of Health abruptly cut off funding to a long-standing, well-regarded research project on bat coronaviruses only after the White House specifically told it to do so, according to Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the NIH’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

The project studied the risk of bat coronaviruses jumping to humans and causing devastating disease. The importance of the work is pretty clear except to our clueless, amateur president.

Quote:

The research is run by EcoHealth Alliance Inc., a nonprofit based in New York, but it collaborates with a virologist at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) in China, who works with bat coronaviruses. The WIV became the center of a conspiracy theory that suggested that the pandemic coronavirus originated in or escaped from a lab at the institute. On April 17, a reporter brought up that conspiracy theory and EcoHealth’s grant to President Trump during a press conference. The reporter asked: “Why would the US give a grant like that to China?” Trump responded that “We will end that grant very quickly.”

Two days later Wuhan Institute of Virology was barred from participation in U.S. federal programs. Five days later the entire program was terminated at the direction of the 'White House.'

Thread continued from here. You may quote or respond to any posts from that part here.

Posted By:zooterkin

[newyorkguy]

Biden slams trump on seeking to cut ACA during the coronavirus pandemic.

Quote:

Joe Biden on Thursday warned that President Donald Trump’s attempts to dismantle the Affordable Care Act will have disastrous consequences on Americans who become infected with the coronavirus, demanding in a fiery speech that the "callous" president end a lawsuit that is seeking to terminate the landmark health care law. "He’s like a child who just can’t believe this has happened to him. It’s all whining and self-pity," Biden said of Trump's coronavirus response during a speech in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. "This pandemic didn’t happen to him. It happened to all of us."

"Some survivors will experience lasting health impacts — like lung scarring and heart damage," he said. "And if Donald Trump prevails in court, insurers would be allowed to strip away coverage or jack up premiums simply because of their battle with the coronavirus."...Earlier this year, the Trump administration joined a coalition of Republican-led states in asking a federal appeals court to entirely overturn the Affordable Health Care Act — a decision that could leave millions uninsured. NBC News link

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by bruto

Yes, I heard that Texas is going to pause the reopening, but not undo anything either. The resurgence of the virus might be due to the partial reopening already in progress, but there will be no reversal. Restaurants at 75 percent capacity with tables up to 10...still OK, etc.

Denial runs deep.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

You underestimate the stupidity of a lot of people.

That would be the permanently ignorant. I was referring to the willfully ignorant.

[Meadmaker]

Today we had a virtual meeting at work to explain the "back to the office" plan. Our company has offices in the US, Germany, and Finland. When explaining why the US wasn't going back to work as quickly as Germany, the boss pulled out a slide with the coronavirus case counts for Germany and for the United State. The line for Germany was going down, for the US, going up.

Remember back when Trump gave a speech on March 9? We have the best doctors. The best hospitals. The best best stuff. I don't remember everything that was best about us, but by gum we were best.

Somehow, we didn't end up with the best outcome.

[xjx388]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

Today we had a virtual meeting at work to explain the "back to the office" plan. Our company has offices in the US, Germany, and Finland. When explaining why the US wasn't going back to work as quickly as Germany, the boss pulled out a slide with the coronavirus case counts for Germany and for the United State. The line for Germany was going down, for the US, going up.

Remember back when Trump gave a speech on March 9? We have the best doctors. The best hospitals. The best best stuff. I don't remember everything that was best about us, but by gum we were best.

Somehow, we didn't end up with the best outcome.

And we can lay a lot of that blame at Trump’s and the GOP’s (Abbott, et al) feet.

But we also have to come to terms with the fact that a sizable portion of our population values their own comfort and happinesses over the greater good.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

Today we had a virtual meeting at work to explain the "back to the office" plan. Our company has offices in the US, Germany, and Finland. When explaining why the US wasn't going back to work as quickly as Germany, the boss pulled out a slide with the coronavirus case counts for Germany and for the United State. The line for Germany was going down, for the US, going up.

Remember back when Trump gave a speech on March 9? We have the best doctors. The best hospitals. The best best stuff. I don't remember everything that was best about us, but by gum we were best.

Somehow, we didn't end up with the best outcome.

You were holding the slide upside down!

[Aridas]

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

It is hard to know whether this belongs in the politics section or the conspiracy theory section:

Easy answer - it depends on how you're using it in that case.

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

Remember back when Trump gave a speech on March 9? We have the best doctors. The best hospitals. The best best stuff. I don't remember everything that was best about us, but by gum we were best.

Somehow, we didn't end up with the best outcome.

At last check, we do (or did) have a lot of great stuff. Very possibly the best in the world for a number of things and in a number of ways (at least for the richest people) and pretty good otherwise, and with resources and plans in place for many contingencies, including ones like COVID-19. What that translates into is that a well-intentioned halfwit could probably have done a passable job at handling a challenging situation like COVID-19. Unfortunately, we have Trump and well-intentioned is not a valid descriptor for him.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Aridas

Easy answer - it depends on how you're using it in that case.



At last check, we do (or did) have a lot of great stuff. Very possibly the best in the world for a number of things and in a number of ways (at least for the richest people) and pretty good otherwise, and with resources and plans in place for many contingencies, including ones like COVID-19. What that translates into is that a well-intentioned halfwit could probably have done a passable job at handling a challenging situation like COVID-19. Unfortunately, we have Trump and well-intentioned is not a valid descriptor for him.

And I have some optimism based on the flurry of polls released recently showing Trump losing badly. It gives me hope that people are seeing through the fraud in the White House.

But all things considered, I would like it even better if I could go to a movie theater.

[Aridas]

Hmm. Here's a bit of an unusual implication to the "Trump should get sick with COVID-19 for karma's sake" thought, as well as a number of other things...

Quote:

In How to Get Rich, Trump links his own germaphobia to the idea that some people are born losers. Winners are people who think positively—and positivity repels germs. “To me, germs are just another kind of negativity.” He then goes on to tell the story of an unnamed acquaintance who is driven home from the hospital in an ambulance after being treated for injuries sustained in a crash. The ambulance crashes and he has to be taken back to the hospital: “Maybe he’s just a really unlucky guy. Or maybe he’s a loser. I know that sounds harsh, but let’s face it—some people are losers.” The train of thought here is typically meandering, but the logic is clear enough. Losers are inevitably doomed by their own negativity, of which germs are a physical form. Infection happens to some people because they are natural losers.

[The Don]

Just announced - a record high number of cases today

Quote:

The United States recorded an all-time daily high of 40,000 coronavirus infections on Thursday, figures from Johns Hopkins University (JHU) show.

A recent surge in infections and hospitalisations has prompted the states of Texas, Florida and Arizona to pause reopening plans.

JHU's previous high of 36,400 was on 24 April when less testing took place.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53191287

Some more bad news - not many people have been infected yet:

Quote:

The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) said up to 20 million Americans may have been infected with coronavirus. The estimate was based on blood samples collected from across the country which were tested for the presence of antibodies to the virus.

That sounds like a lot of people, but that's mid single digits percent

[timhau]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

Today we had a virtual meeting at work to explain the "back to the office" plan. Our company has offices in the US, Germany, and Finland. When explaining why the US wasn't going back to work as quickly as Germany, the boss pulled out a slide with the coronavirus case counts for Germany and for the United State. The line for Germany was going down, for the US, going up.

Remember back when Trump gave a speech on March 9? We have the best doctors. The best hospitals. The best best stuff. I don't remember everything that was best about us, but by gum we were best.

Somehow, we didn't end up with the best outcome.

You could have improved the outcome if you had a sharpie.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by timhau

You could have improved the outcome if you had a sharpie.

[Trebuchet]

Trump not only told his adoring fans he asked his team to cut testing, they are actually doing it.

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

And I have some optimism based on the flurry of polls released recently showing Trump losing badly. It gives me hope that people are seeing through the fraud in the White House.

But all things considered, I would like it even better if I could go to a movie theater.

Yes.

[acbytesla]

Leave it to Trump to turn taking medical advice into a culture war. Leave it to the willfully ignorant to take up arms and follow him.

A Sheriff in a sparsely populated county in my State of Washington gave a speech in the parking lot of his church telling the congregation to ignore their Governor's order to wear masks. Ironically he implored them "not to be sheep".

[Armitage72]

A German video, but with English subtitles. More general attitudes of people than politics though, but there is a reference to "King Drumph" and injecting soap.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

[Mader Levap]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Trump not only told his adoring fans he asked his team to cut testing, they are actually doing it.

Looks like Trump is doing everything he can to ensure USA is ravaged by COVID-19 in November.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Aridas

Hmm. Here's a bit of an unusual implication to the "Trump should get sick with COVID-19 for karma's sake" thought, as well as a number of other things...

Quote:

Quote:
In How to Get Rich, Trump links his own germaphobia to the idea that some people are born losers. Winners are people who think positively—and positivity repels germs. “To me, germs are just another kind of negativity.” He then goes on to tell the story of an unnamed acquaintance who is driven home from the hospital in an ambulance after being treated for injuries sustained in a crash. The ambulance crashes and he has to be taken back to the hospital: “Maybe he’s just a really unlucky guy. Or maybe he’s a loser. I know that sounds harsh, but let’s face it—some people are losers.” The train of thought here is typically meandering, but the logic is clear enough. Losers are inevitably doomed by their own negativity, of which germs are a physical form. Infection happens to some people because they are natural losers.

I'll bet that incident he describes above is a lie. He has a history of making up things to illustrate his point.

[lomiller]

9000 new cases in Florida yesterday.

[Stacyhs]

I wanted to scream as I watched that moron Pence stand in front of the cameras today and just lie through his teeth about how wonderfully things are going with the coronavirus today. "We're in a much better place now." WTF???

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by lomiller

9000 new cases in Florida yesterday.

South Carolina is looking awfully smart right now for not bowing to Trump demands for relaxed rules for the GOP convention.


I'm really glad Trump did that, because it will really show off his stupidity, in a way directly connected to politics, when people are watching and might be swayed.

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

South Carolina is looking awfully smart right now for not bowing to Trump demands for relaxed rules for the GOP convention.
....

Credit where credit is due: It was North Carolina that booted out the Repubs. Charlotte, where the convention was originally scheduled, is in North Carolina, which historically, although maybe not at present, has been a little more enlightened than South Carolina.

And it's looking like the new site, Jacksonville, Florida, might not want it either.
https://www.politicususa.com/2020/06...onvention.html

[Brainster]

Arizona Governor Doug Ducey:

Quote:

“We expect that our numbers will be worse next week and the week following, in terms of cases and hospitalizations,” Ducey said. "Whenever we make changes it takes several weeks for the numbers to catch up and the numbers affecting real people."

Yep, we're two weeks away from any relief being provided from the changes he's making. Which are?

Quote:

Ducey again issued a plea to the public to follow social distancing guidelines, avoid crowds, and always wear a mask in public. However, he stopped short of issuing any additional policy change related to enforcing safety precautions.

Well, okay, then. Two weeks until the next time he tells us things are going to be worse two weeks from now.

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by Brainster

Arizona Governor Doug Ducey:

Yep, we're two weeks away from any relief being provided from the changes he's making. Which are?

Well, okay, then. Two weeks until the next time he tells us things are going to be worse two weeks from now.

Not defending ineptitude, but I think the problem with making mask-wearing mandatory, instead of strongly recommended, is that laws have to be enforced, and even if the penalty is just a small fine, in the present environment it might not be smart to have cops confronting people over minor infractions. If a non-mask wearer refuses to cooperate, they pretty much have to arrest him. If he resists, they have to subdue him. One case of somebody getting hurt or worse over a mask would be catastrophic.

[Stacyhs]

If Ducey thinks people will 'do the right thing' and social distance/wear masks without a mandate then he lives in La La Land. We've already seen that many people, especially younger people, choose not to "do the right thing". What the hell does he think got AZ, TX and FL where they are now?

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Bob001

Credit where credit is due: It was North Carolina that booted out the Repubs. Charlotte, where the convention was originally scheduled, is in North Carolina, which historically, although maybe not at present, has been a little more enlightened than South Carolina.

And it's looking like the new site, Jacksonville, Florida, might not want it either.
https://www.politicususa.com/2020/06...onvention.html

Oops. All them Carolinas look alike to me.

[xjx388]

Originally Posted by Bob001

Not defending ineptitude, but I think the problem with making mask-wearing mandatory, instead of strongly recommended, is that laws have to be enforced, and even if the penalty is just a small fine, in the present environment it might not be smart to have cops confronting people over minor infractions. If a non-mask wearer refuses to cooperate, they pretty much have to arrest him. If he resists, they have to subdue him. One case of somebody getting hurt or worse over a mask would be catastrophic.

That's the problem, the mask wearing orders are basically toothless.

Really, what should be happening is businesses refusing entry to non-mask-wearers. If they refuse to leave, that's trespassing. Then you arrest the maskless for the more major infraction.

[Brainster]

Originally Posted by Bob001

Not defending ineptitude, but I think the problem with making mask-wearing mandatory, instead of strongly recommended, is that laws have to be enforced, and even if the penalty is just a small fine, in the present environment it might not be smart to have cops confronting people over minor infractions. If a non-mask wearer refuses to cooperate, they pretty much have to arrest him. If he resists, they have to subdue him. One case of somebody getting hurt or worse over a mask would be catastrophic.

I hate to say it, but they have to close the bars (and probably the restaurants) again. Florida and Texas have already bit the bullet on the bars. It sucks, because the bar owners already got hit with almost 2 months of closure.

Masks are mandatory in public in Maricopa County, although there are some sensible and some unfortunate exceptions. Among the former are individuals exercising outdoors alone (e.g., bicycle riders or runners), among the latter are "religious reasons," which of course is going to result in a whole lot of new converts to any religion that includes "Thou shalt not cover thy face," as a commandment. Which means that most people people will wear it, some won't and the number of confrontations will probably be minimal.

[Minoosh]

Wow. This campus for the elderly has done an excellent job keeping coronavirus at bay, but now 4 residents of the Care Center (nursing home) have tested positive and *17* staffers are also positive. The folks running the campus had begun opening up with a very light touch, allowing doctor visits and curbside pickup of groceries. But apparently there weren't resources for widespread testing of even the nursing home residents. Whatever factors make this virus spread like wildfire in certain populations are taking hold here.

This just sucks. Maybe a slight consolation is that mask-wearing is now mandated community-wide and I hope the rising cases help put to rest the political battle over masks. It seems now quite a few "conservatives" are backpedaling and saying wear masks after all.

Would like to book a week in a mountain cabin to get away from atrocious heat, but if we go we'd be quarantined for 2 weeks upon our return. Even though we could pull it off almost with virtually no human contact. A grocery run would be required though. Even under quarantine I'd be allowed to walk the dog which is basically the only time I leave the apartment anyway.

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by Bob001

Not defending ineptitude, but I think the problem with making mask-wearing mandatory, instead of strongly recommended, is that laws have to be enforced, and even if the penalty is just a small fine, in the present environment it might not be smart to have cops confronting people over minor infractions. If a non-mask wearer refuses to cooperate, they pretty much have to arrest him. If he resists, they have to subdue him. One case of somebody getting hurt or worse over a mask would be catastrophic.

No it doesn't.
Just because there is a law doesn't mean an officer can't just remind people to wear the mask. "Strongly suggest" doesn't have any authority to it. There are in fact lots of laws that people break that they are not likely to enforce other than maybe say something.

[newyorkguy]

Texas is having a serious problem. New cases are rapidly increasing which is a sure sign the infection is spreading and not under control. Governor Greg Abbott has to shoulder a lot of the blame.

Quote:

The situation is perhaps most urgent in Texas, the nation’s second-largest state, which was under one of the shortest stay-at-home orders when Mr. Abbott, a Republican, decided to reopen the state in phases on May 1...Mr. Abbott’s response to the increase in cases has been contradictory, and he has been criticized by both Democrats and Republicans over his handling of the stay-at-home order and mask requirements. In recent weeks, he has declared the state open for business, but has also said that Texans should stay home. article from New York Times

Some local law enforcement agencies have even criticized Abbott publicly for refusing to enforce even the restrictions that were still in place. When police took enforcement action against businesses that were opening illegally, Abbott got the penalties dropped. One Texas police agency complained, what was the sense of them enforcing the restrictions if the Governor would side with the violators? One sheriff said Abbott has played "politics with this straight through."

Another problem has developed with allowing shopping malls, restaurants, bars and gyms to reopen. Just allowing these businesses to open their doors did not guarantee they would do a normal business and some haven't. The local bistro may be open for business but if their usual patrons are uneasy about the safety issue they are going to stay home and many have. This is exactly what Dr. Anthony Fauci warned about back in May when Texas and some other states decided to reopen. The economic risk was, if they open too soon, the virus is likely to begin spreading. That will hurt businesses whether they're open or not. Then, if these states have to put restrictions back in place, it would probably result in worse economic problems then if they had waited and complied with even the White House guidelines. (Full restrictions in place until fourteen consecutive days of declining case numbers.)

Also from the Times article:

Quote:

“It hasn’t worked out as they planned,” said Kent Smetters, the director of the Penn Wharton Budget Model at the University of Pennsylvania, which is analyzing the impact of government policies on coronavirus deaths and the economy. “By reopening, they have seen cases go up, and they have made a lot of people scared” to visit restaurants and other businesses, he said, adding that “people’s confidence is the key driver in this.”

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by Bob001

Credit where credit is due: It was North Carolina that booted out the Repubs. Charlotte, where the convention was originally scheduled, is in North Carolina, which historically, although maybe not at present, has been a little more enlightened than South Carolina.

And it's looking like the new site, Jacksonville, Florida, might not want it either.
https://www.politicususa.com/2020/06...onvention.html

Would that be the same North Carolina where it's illegal to plan for sea level rise due to climate change?

Originally Posted by Brainster

Arizona Governor Doug Ducey:

Quote:

“We expect that our numbers will be worse next week and the week following, in terms of cases and hospitalizations,” Ducey said. "Whenever we make changes it takes several weeks for the numbers to catch up and the numbers affecting real people."

Oh, in two weeks it'll affect real people. What kind of people is it affecting now?

Originally Posted by xjx388

That's the problem, the mask wearing orders are basically toothless.

Really, what should be happening is businesses refusing entry to non-mask-wearers. If they refuse to leave, that's trespassing. Then you arrest the maskless for the more major infraction.

A woman attempted to enter my local hospital without a mask and refused to have her temperature taken. She was removed from the property, so she called the cops and said she was assaulted.

[Stacyhs]

Remember the video of the city council meeting where some whack jobs made ridiculous anti-mask pleas? That was just a short version. Here are more of said whack jobs at that meeting. I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.
https://www.facebook.com/NowThisElec...80394025712420

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by xjx388

That's the problem, the mask wearing orders are basically toothless.

I think the bigger problem is that there is insufficient social pressure to wearing of masks.

Maybe if there were a leader, like an elected official, who could use the influence of his position to encourage it? I wonder if that could work.

[Resume]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Remember the video of the city council meeting where some whack jobs made ridiculous anti-mask pleas? That was just a short version. Here are more of said whack jobs at that meeting. I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.
https://www.facebook.com/NowThisElec...80394025712420

Quote:

I think all of you should be in a psych ward right the heck now.

Project much?

[a_unique_person]

Originally Posted by Mader Levap

Looks like Trump is doing everything he can to ensure USA is ravaged by COVID-19 in November.

Yet when Biden is elected the infections will magically disappear.

[newyorkguy]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Remember the video of the city council meeting where some whack jobs made ridiculous anti-mask pleas? That was just a short version. Here are more of said whack jobs at that meeting. I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.
https://www.facebook.com/NowThisElec...80394025712420

The worst was the guy wearing what looked like a Vietnam veterans cap, angrily berating the Palm Beach Florida city council for not honoring "We the people!" Polling released Friday June 19th by News4Jax in Jacksonville showed:

Quote:

The poll, published on Friday, found that 51% of voters said it should be mandatory for masks to be worn in public. On the opposing side, 49% said they do not believe masks should be mandatory to wear in public. News link

Not a huge majority to be sure, but a majority nonetheless.

A poll on Orlando dot com found 60% of respondents either wear a mask "Everywhere I go" or "Most times." Only 22% said they never wear a mask. 64% said they thought requiring people to wear masks was "a good idea." Link to Orlando dot com

This is my point. In Florida, as other places, the majority of people almost always support caution and prevention. Social distancing, restrictions on assembly, the wearing of face masks. How do the people who are so vehemently opposed to the wearing of face masks, how do they justify trying to force state governments to do something that a majority of their fellow citizens oppose? These zealots are making their case to the wrong people aren't they? Instead of berating elected officials -- who are actually representing the wishes of the majority -- they need to make their argument to the general public. But unlike elected officials, who obviously try and be cordial to the messengers (even if they don't agree with their message), I think a lot of everyday citizens would tell people -- like the lady insisting "masks kill, they kill!" -- I think the average Joe or Jane would respond: "You're nuts."

[Stacyhs]

Did anyone see Pence's pathetic response...twice... to being asked why Trump is having rallies when they aren't following Fauci's and Birx's recommendations?

Quote:

“The freedom of speech, the right to peaceably assemble, is enshrined in the constitution of the United States,” replied Pence, who leads the task force.

“And we have an election coming up this fall,” he added. “We still want to give people the freedom to participate in the political process, and we respect that.”

Another reporter grilled Pence for justifying the public gatherings while insisting that people follow state and local social distancing guidelines.

“Even in a health crisis, the American people don’t forfeit our constitutional rights,” Pence said. “I think it’s really important that we recognize how important freedom and personal responsibility to this entire equation.”

What the hell does holding rallies during a surge in the pandemic have to do with the Constitution? Moron.

[ChristianProgressive]

A GOP lawmaker from TX who is also a doctor just hemmed and hawwed and stammered his way through an interview with Chris Cuomo where he continually contradicted himself, flat out lied about what Trump has and hasn't said, and kept trying to answer every question by talking about needing to "get the economy" open again.

The utter, craven spinelessness of this quisling made my blood boil. Not only was he a traitor to his state and nation, he was a traitor to his Hippocratic Oath.