Bill Barr and his October Surprise - Page 6

Disbelief · 16th October 2020, 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by Bogative

Nah, TDS sufferers are very predictable.

Yep, we can easily see how Trumplethinskins will react (Total Devotion Syndrome).

I Am The Scum · 16th October 2020, 05:23 AM

I'm gonna quote the super rad Parker Molloy on this one.

Quote:

I’m still waiting for someone, anyone to explain what the scandal is supposed to be and how these emails are evidence of it. Running headlines calling something a “smoking gun” does not make something a smoking gun. This is the same playbook as their “unmasking” nonsense.

Trumpers really have lost their minds over this one. It seems like, at most, Hunter Biden introduced a business associate to his dad. That's not a crime anywhere on the planet.

Armitage72 · 16th October 2020, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum

Trumpers really have lost their minds over this one. It seems like, at most, Hunter Biden introduced a business associate to his dad. That's not a crime anywhere on the planet.

Apparently, they're still running with the idea that Joe Biden worked to get rid of the prosecutor in order to protect Bursima, and this was part of it.
You know, the exact opposite of reality.

JoeMorgue · 16th October 2020, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum

I'm gonna quote the super rad Parker Molloy on this one.

Trumpers really have lost their minds over this one. It seems like, at most, Hunter Biden introduced a business associate to his dad. That's not a crime anywhere on the planet.

Of course it would be a nothingburger even if true, but that's not the point from the Republican mindset.

Like I've said over and over all the arguments from the Republican side are minor variations on the same argument. "It's not that I'm not as bad as you think I am, but the people who are criticizing me are as good as they think they are."

So when the Right is caught doing something bad their defense is to find something thematically similar, even if totally different, someone on the Left did.

If right now footage hits CNN of Eric Trump decapitating a hooker FoxNews would not stop until it found footage of Hunter Biden giving a homeless woman a haircut and present it as "See! See! He's doing something vaguely thematically similar if you squint really hard!"

jerrywayne · 16th October 2020, 06:13 AM

"When Giuliani went to Ukraine in December to investigate Burisma and the Bidens, he interacted with “people tied to Russian intelligence,” the Washington Post reported Thursday night.

Intelligence officials feared Giuliani — a former federal prosecutor who is now a Trump lawyer and freelance White House investigator — was being used to feed Russian misinformation to the president, four former officials familiar with the matter told the newspaper.

Their warning to Trump, one of the officials told the newspaper, was: "Do what you want to do, but your friend Rudy has been worked by Russian assets in Ukraine.”

Trump “shrugged his shoulders” at the warning, the former official said. “That’s Rudy,” the president said dismissively."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...?ocid=msedgdhp

johnny karate · 16th October 2020, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by Bogative

Nah, TDS sufferers are very predictable.

Ha ha... TDS. Such a savage burn. It’s funny because 218,000 Americans are dead.

shuttlt · 16th October 2020, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by Armitage72

Apparently, they're still running with the idea that Joe Biden worked to get rid of the prosecutor in order to protect Bursima, and this was part of it.
You know, the exact opposite of reality.

Do we actually know what the reality was? As far as I'm aware of the facts, Hunter was getting paid at least $50k per month by the Ukrainian company (Burisma) without having anything obvious to offer them other than the connection to his father who was handling the allocation of aid to Ukraine. The Ukrainian prosecutor Shokin was investigating Burisma. There were claims that Shokin was corrupt amid complaints that he wasn't making progress on the investigation of Burisma. Biden threatened to withhold aid unless Shokin was fired. Shokin was forced out in Feb 2016. The case against Bursima was dropped in 2017. In 2018 the decision to annul the case was overruled and the oligarch behind Burisma fled the country. Trump was then impeached over the phone call pushing Ukraine to investigate this.

Biden was accused of having a conflict of interest as his decisions directly benefitted the company that was paying his son $50k a month for no readily discernible reason. Biden claimed that there was no conflict because he never talked to his son about his overseas business. If these emails pan out, then we see in fact his son was connecting people within Burisma to Joe Biden, undermining Joe Biden's claims a bit.

I don't think it is exactly proved that Biden was doing anything corrupt here, but I don't understand your certainty that he wasn't.

The Great Zaganza · 16th October 2020, 06:42 AM

Surprise, Surprise!

Another Trump associate pleads guilty to illegal lobbying!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...erate-with-u-s

johnny karate · 16th October 2020, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

Do we actually know what the reality was? As far as I'm aware of the facts, Hunter was getting paid at least $50k per month by the Ukrainian company (Burisma) without having anything obvious to offer them other than the connection to his father who was handling the allocation of aid to Ukraine. The Ukrainian prosecutor Shokin was investigating Burisma. There were claims that Shokin was corrupt amid complaints that he wasn't making progress on the investigation of Burisma. Biden threatened to withhold aid unless Shokin was fired. Shokin was forced out in Feb 2016. The case against Bursima was dropped in 2017. In 2018 the decision to annul the case was overruled and the oligarch behind Burisma fled the country. Trump was then impeached over the phone call pushing Ukraine to investigate this.

Biden was accused of having a conflict of interest as his decisions directly benefitted the company that was paying his son $50k a month for no readily discernible reason. Biden claimed that there was no conflict because he never talked to his son about his overseas business. If these emails pan out, then we see in fact his son was connecting people within Burisma to Joe Biden, undermining Joe Biden's claims a bit.

I don't think it is exactly proved that Biden was doing anything corrupt here, but I don't understand your certainty that he wasn't.

Ah, yes. The old Conspiracy Theory Two-Step.

Profess ignorance about a topic: “Gosh, we don’t know much about what really happened”.

Then launch into your detailed conspiracy theory as if you’re just innocently spitballing off the top of your head.

shuttlt · 16th October 2020, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

Ah, yes. The old Conspiracy Theory Two-Step.

Profess ignorance about a topic: “Gosh, we don’t know much about what really happened”.

Then launch into your detailed conspiracy theory as if you’re just innocently spitballing off the top of your head.

I didn't claim to be ignorant about the topic. Pretty much everything I said can be found on the Wikipedia pages for Burisma and Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch behind Burisma. Are any of the facts I claimed in my post controversial?

johnny karate · 16th October 2020, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

I didn't claim to be ignorant about the topic. Pretty much everything I said can be found on the Wikipedia pages for Burisma and Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch behind Burisma. Are any of the facts I claimed in my post controversial?

How about the Republican-led Senate report that found no evidence of any wrongdoing? Did that happen to come up during your diligent research?

wareyin · 16th October 2020, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

I didn't claim to be ignorant about the topic. Pretty much everything I said can be found on the Wikipedia pages for Burisma and Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch behind Burisma. Are any of the facts I claimed in my post controversial?

At least one of your claims is certainly not a fact. Shokin was in fact not investigating Burisma.

I'm surprised you missed that on the Victor Shokin and Burisma Wikipedia pages.

I Am The Scum · 16th October 2020, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

The Ukrainian prosecutor Shokin was investigating Burisma.

Citation, please.

JoeMorgue · 16th October 2020, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum

Citation, please.

Also Shuttit before you open your mouth "Prove I'm wrong" isn't a citation.

jerrywayne · 16th October 2020, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

Do we actually know what the reality was? As far as I'm aware of the facts, Hunter was getting paid at least $50k per month by the Ukrainian company (Burisma) without having anything obvious to offer them other than the connection to his father who was handling the allocation of aid to Ukraine. The Ukrainian prosecutor Shokin was investigating Burisma. There were claims that Shokin was corrupt amid complaints that he wasn't making progress on the investigation of Burisma. Biden threatened to withhold aid unless Shokin was fired.

Bottom line: Joe Biden was not the singular impetus in the firing of prosecutor Shokin. Ukrainian society orgs, the International Monetary Fund, the Obama administration, including the American Embassy in Ukraine, the European Union, foreign investors, etc., all wanted the corrupt Shokin out. So Biden wasn't performing a rogue operation in the Ukraine to help his son, but was delivering policy supported by Western and Ukrainian interests.

timhau · 16th October 2020, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by jerrywayne

Bottom line: Joe Biden was not the singular impetus in the firing of prosecutor Shokin. Ukrainian society orgs, the International Monetary Fund, the Obama administration, including the American Embassy in Ukraine, the European Union, foreign investors, etc., all wanted the corrupt Shokin out. So Biden wasn't performing a rogue operation in the Ukraine to help his son, but was delivering policy supported by Western and Ukrainian interests.

Yea, this. And the "claims that shokin may be corrupt" are kind of like "claims that Barry Bonds may have used steroids".

Armitage72 · 16th October 2020, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by timhau

Yea, this. And the "claims that shokin may be corrupt" are kind of like "claims that Barry Bonds may have used steroids".

Wouldn't a more appropriate simile be "claims that Donald Trump may use spray tan"?

TellyKNeasuss · 16th October 2020, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss

Another problem with the Hunter Biden laptop story: Hunter Biden was living in California at the time when the laptop was supposedly left at a repair shop in Delaware.

A citation for the claim that Hunter Biden moved to California prior to the alleged trip to the Delaware computer repair shop:

ps://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/08/will-hunter-biden-jeopardize-his-fathers-campaign

Craig4 · 16th October 2020, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

Do we actually know what the reality was? As far as I'm aware of the facts, Hunter was getting paid at least $50k per month by the Ukrainian company (Burisma) without having anything obvious to offer them other than the connection to his father who was handling the allocation of aid to Ukraine. The Ukrainian prosecutor Shokin was investigating Burisma. There were claims that Shokin was corrupt amid complaints that he wasn't making progress on the investigation of Burisma. Biden threatened to withhold aid unless Shokin was fired. Shokin was forced out in Feb 2016. The case against Bursima was dropped in 2017. In 2018 the decision to annul the case was overruled and the oligarch behind Burisma fled the country. Trump was then impeached over the phone call pushing Ukraine to investigate this.

Biden was accused of having a conflict of interest as his decisions directly benefitted the company that was paying his son $50k a month for no readily discernible reason. Biden claimed that there was no conflict because he never talked to his son about his overseas business. If these emails pan out, then we see in fact his son was connecting people within Burisma to Joe Biden, undermining Joe Biden's claims a bit.

I don't think it is exactly proved that Biden was doing anything corrupt here, but I don't understand your certainty that he wasn't.

Even if Biden did apply pressure to aid his son, I don't care. If the choice is who is less corrupt, Biden still wins (and already got my vote and financial donations).

xjx388 · 16th October 2020, 09:04 AM

The core problem is that Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukranian gas company despite having no experience in the Ukraine or the gas industry. Despite having just been discharged from the Navy Reserve for cocaine use. This happened at a time when his father was Vice President and specifically handling Ukraine relations.

That problematic appointment creates a ripe environment for speculation. Why was Hunter appointed if not to curry favor with the VP, his father? It really doesn't make sense any other way. A relatively reasonable person can make inferences that lead them to concluding that there was at least some motive for corruption on Burisma's part. Which, given the chain of events, a somewhat-less-but-still-reasonable interpretation is that there indeed was some corruption. I personally don't think there was, quite the opposite, in fact. I think there's plenty of evidence to show that Biden and the rest of the Western world wanted the prosecutor out because he wasn't pursuing obvious corruption, including that of Burisma.

But it's that problematic confluence of established facts that raises the question in the first place: Why was Hunter Biden on a board of company he had no experience with in a country he had no experience with? Because his father was in charge of Ukraine policy - there simply is no other answer.

The Great Zaganza · 16th October 2020, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by xjx388

The core problem is that Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukranian gas company despite having no experience in the Ukraine or the gas industry. Despite having just been discharged from the Navy Reserve for cocaine use. This happened at a time when his father was Vice President and specifically handling Ukraine relations.

That problematic appointment creates a ripe environment for speculation. Why was Hunter appointed if not to curry favor with the VP, his father? It really doesn't make sense any other way. A relatively reasonable person can make inferences that lead them to concluding that there was at least some motive for corruption on Burisma's part. Which, given the chain of events, a somewhat-less-but-still-reasonable interpretation is that there indeed was some corruption. I personally don't think there was, quite the opposite, in fact. I think there's plenty of evidence to show that Biden and the rest of the Western world wanted the prosecutor out because he wasn't pursuing obvious corruption, including that of Burisma.

But it's that problematic confluence of established facts that raises the question in the first place: Why was Hunter Biden on a board of company he had no experience with in a country he had no experience with? Because his father was in charge of Ukraine policy - there simply is no other answer.

What Hunter did or didn't do is the one side of the issue, and it is the next-to-irrelevant one: we are not voting for Hunter for President.

What voter should wonder is what Joe Biden did, and if what he did was according to the interests of the US and in accordance with State Department policy. Or if he put pressure to have US policy change to help his son's company.

Of course, we don't have to even ask these questions in the case of Ivanka and Jared, because we all know the answer.

wareyin · 16th October 2020, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by xjx388

The core problem is that Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukranian gas company despite having no experience in the Ukraine or the gas industry. Despite having just been discharged from the Navy Reserve for cocaine use.

A person on the board of a company has no experience in that industry? Just like on virtually every other board of directors out there? No, say it ain't so!

JoeMorgue · 16th October 2020, 09:23 AM

The tenuous link between things the Trumpers have to make in order to maintain their whataboutism is getting pathetic.

xjx388 · 16th October 2020, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

What Hunter did or didn't do is the one side of the issue, and it is the next-to-irrelevant one: we are not voting for Hunter for President.

What voter should wonder is what Joe Biden did, and if what he did was according to the interests of the US and in accordance with State Department policy. Or if he put pressure to have US policy change to help his son's company.

Of course, we don't have to even ask these questions in the case of Ivanka and Jared, because we all know the answer.

Oh, I absolutely agree. It's amazing to me that people who push the "Biden corruption" narrative don't see the obvious corruption happening right now in Trump's family. I think it's the simple fact that people on the GOP side are much better about getting their narratives, true or false, across than those on the Dem side. I'm surprised that Biden and his campaign hasn't been more vocal on this particular point given the focus on his son and himself.

kookbreaker · 16th October 2020, 09:34 AM

Last I checked, Hunter Biden didn't have to have his security clearance forced through by Daddy so that he could work for Daddy when he would have been declared a security risk in any other circumstance.

Regnad Kcin · 16th October 2020, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

This is like Watergate but if Nixon had left the tapes in his jacket pocket for dry cleaning except the tapes were just found in a random jacket pocket with "Nixon '76" pin on the lapel so they assumed they had to be Nixon's jacket oh and the tapes also didn't really exist.

Tricky.

xjx388 · 16th October 2020, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by wareyin

A person on the board of a company has no experience in that industry? Just like on virtually every other board of directors out there? No, say it ain't so!

Yes, this is indeed common in order to leverage connections and hijack prestige (see Theranos for an example of when it can backfire spectacularly). What I'm saying is that in this case, the close connection to the then VP overseeing that country's political relations is especially problematic. I mean, what would everyone say if Michael Pence (Mike Pence's son) was appointed to the board of some Russian company owned by a corrupt oligarch?

turingtest · 16th October 2020, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by xjx388

Oh, I absolutely agree. It's amazing to me that people who push the "Biden corruption" narrative don't see the obvious corruption happening right now in Trump's family. I think it's the simple fact that people on the GOP side are much better about getting their narratives, true or false, across than those on the Dem side. I'm surprised that Biden and his campaign hasn't been more vocal on this particular point given the focus on his son and himself.

It's entirely possible that, far from those people not seeing the corruption in Trump's family, it's the reason for their pushing the "Biden family corruption" narrative.

Regnad Kcin · 16th October 2020, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss

YES!!! THAT'S IT!!! What a brilliant plan: Travel cross-country to drop off a laptop at a repair shop, don't tell the shop who you are and make sure that the owner has bad eyesight and can't recognize you, and don't ever retrieve the laptop with the expectation that the repair shop will wipe everything from the disk and sell the laptop to someone who lives 3,000 miles from you so that all traces of a secret meeting with a Ukrainian businessman will vanish forever.

Excellent chronicle, except I'd like to add that his cross-country trip was likely aboard a remote-controlled holographic plane under the direction of Dick Cheney.

jerrywayne · 16th October 2020, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by xjx388

The core problem is that Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukranian gas company despite having no experience in the Ukraine or the gas industry. Despite having just been discharged from the Navy Reserve for cocaine use. This happened at a time when his father was Vice President and specifically handling Ukraine relations.

That problematic appointment creates a ripe environment for speculation. Why was Hunter appointed if not to curry favor with the VP, his father? It really doesn't make sense any other way. A relatively reasonable person can make inferences that lead them to concluding that there was at least some motive for corruption on Burisma's part. Which, given the chain of events, a somewhat-less-but-still-reasonable interpretation is that there indeed was some corruption. I personally don't think there was, quite the opposite, in fact. I think there's plenty of evidence to show that Biden and the rest of the Western world wanted the prosecutor out because he wasn't pursuing obvious corruption, including that of Burisma.

But it's that problematic confluence of established facts that raises the question in the first place: Why was Hunter Biden on a board of company he had no experience with in a country he had no experience with? Because his father was in charge of Ukraine policy - there simply is no other answer.

The possible answer is mundane. Burisma was willing to pay Hunter's salary because having a Biden on the board would help turnaround its image and help attract needed investors.

shuttlt · 16th October 2020, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by jerrywayne

The possible answer is mundane. Burisma was willing to pay Hunter's salary because having a Biden on the board would help turnaround its image and help attract needed investors.

Presumably any change he would make to their image would be as a result of a perceived connection to Joe Biden? That feels like almost the definition of conflict of interest. In any case, if these emails pan out, we have Hunter introducing people from Burisma to Joe... so the suggestion is that they were getting more for their money than just reflected glory.

Babbylonian · 16th October 2020, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

Presumably any change he would make to their image would be as a result of a perceived connection to Joe Biden? That feels like almost the definition of conflict of interest.

Oh, is that how it "feels?" What a ******* crock. If trading on one's name constituted a conflict of interest...ever heard the name Trump?

Quote:

In any case, if these emails pan out, we have Hunter introducing people from Burisma to Joe... so the suggestion is that they were getting more for their money than just reflected glory.

It's been days and all that's been produced is an easily faked screenshot of a single e-mail and every aspect of the story strains credulity beyond the breaking point. In other words, this slander hasn't panned out. It's over except for the dishonest partisans who continue to pretend there was ever a credible story in the first place.

Beelzebuddy · 16th October 2020, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

Presumably any change he would make to their image would be as a result of a perceived connection to Joe Biden? That feels like almost the definition of conflict of interest. In any case, if these emails pan out, we have Hunter introducing people from Burisma to Joe... so the suggestion is that they were getting more for their money than just reflected glory.

Are you familiar with Hunter Biden's credentials? He's led a flourishing career of his own, he's no Half Scoop.

Skeptic Ginger · 16th October 2020, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by xjx388

The core problem is that Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukranian gas company despite having no experience in the Ukraine or the gas industry. Despite having just been discharged from the Navy Reserve for cocaine use. This happened at a time when his father was Vice President and specifically handling Ukraine relations.

That problematic appointment creates a ripe environment for speculation. Why was Hunter appointed if not to curry favor with the VP, his father? It really doesn't make sense any other way. A relatively reasonable person can make inferences that lead them to concluding that there was at least some motive for corruption on Burisma's part. Which, given the chain of events, a somewhat-less-but-still-reasonable interpretation is that there indeed was some corruption. I personally don't think there was, quite the opposite, in fact. I think there's plenty of evidence to show that Biden and the rest of the Western world wanted the prosecutor out because he wasn't pursuing obvious corruption, including that of Burisma.

But it's that problematic confluence of established facts that raises the question in the first place: Why was Hunter Biden on a board of company he had no experience with in a country he had no experience with? Because his father was in charge of Ukraine policy - there simply is no other answer.

Do you have a clue what Hunter's qualifications actually were? He has a Yale law degree and had a number of years of experience in various positions and companies.

Vox has a good summary and they don't pull punches.

Hunter Biden, the black sheep who got Trump impeached, explained (There is sarcasm there, I believe.)

Quote:

When his dad became vice president, Hunter left the Amtrak board and instead got involved with a series of investment companies. As detailed by Ben Schreckinger in Politico, a lot of this work seems to have hinged on Hunter and his uncle James Biden sort of hinting around that the family connection to the vice president could help get things done and then not delivering. The Obama administration generally regarded Hunter as a kind of embarrassing family black sheep rather than a real scandal.

That's quite different from Biden getting his son the job.

Segnosaur · 16th October 2020, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by xjx388

The core problem is that Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukranian gas company despite having no experience in the Ukraine or the gas industry.

As another poster had suggested... it is not unusual for people to serve on the board of directors for companies they do not have experience in. In fact it is probably the norm. (I guess companies want to have directors with a wide variety of experiences.)

Now, lets consider Hunter Biden's experience, shall we? Before he joined Burisma, he:
- Graduated law school (So, decently educated)
- Became an executive for a financial organization
- Founded multiple businesses, including one that does venture capital and one that does investments/advisory
- Served on the board of Directors of Amtrak (after being appointed to the position by Bush, who was a republican the last time I checked.)

So Biden does appear to have significant qualifications to serve on the board of directors of Barisma.

Now, would he have been hired if he wasn't related to Joe Biden? Maybe, maybe not. I do admit that having someone even remotely related to the presidency would add a little prestige to the company.

Quote:

Why was Hunter appointed if not to curry favor with the VP, his father? It really doesn't make sense any other way.

Now, would he have been hired if he wasn't related to Joe Biden? Maybe, maybe not. I do admit that having someone even remotely related to the presidency would add a little prestige to the company, which would be more than enough justification to hire him, even if Joe Biden wasn't going to be influenced as a results. (Despite insinuations from the MAGAchuds that he was some unemployed loser living in Joe Biden's basement before he was hired by Barisma, Hunter certainly was more than successful by that point in his career.)

Skeptic Ginger · 16th October 2020, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

Presumably any change he would make to their image would be as a result of a perceived connection to Joe Biden? That feels like almost the definition of conflict of interest. In any case, if these emails pan out, we have Hunter introducing people from Burisma to Joe... so the suggestion is that they were getting more for their money than just reflected glory.

You're still going there?

The Great Zaganza · 16th October 2020, 11:18 AM

If some people hadn't made such a poor effort to launder the information through a fabricated story, there might have been some merit to investigate the content of the emails.

But this story isn't just Fake News, it is Fabricated News.

timhau · 16th October 2020, 11:44 AM

But... but... his emails!!

Dr. Keith · 16th October 2020, 12:02 PM

I don't think it is fair to compare Hunter to the Trump kids. Neither Barron nor Tiffany have carreers based off of their father's name, yet.

dirtywick · 16th October 2020, 12:21 PM

it’s a private company anyway right? Whether or not they’re making bad hiring decisions is entirely up to them. Real question is what did Joe Biden do. And if the best you got is an email that Rudy Giuliani found in a water logged computer he got from a MAGA nut, well, LOL at you for believing that

16th October 2020, 03:45 AM	#201
Disbelief Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,798	Originally Posted by Bogative Nah, TDS sufferers are very predictable. Yep, we can easily see how Trumplethinskins will react (Total Devotion Syndrome).
Disbelief Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,798	__________________ Zensmack (LastChild, Laughing Assassin, RazetheFlag, Wastrel, TruthbyDecree) - Working his way up the sock puppet chain, trying to overtake P'Doh. Or, are they the same? Quote me where I said conspiracists use evidence. - mchapman

16th October 2020, 05:54 AM	#204
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 29,947	Originally Posted by I Am The Scum I'm gonna quote the super rad Parker Molloy on this one. Trumpers really have lost their minds over this one. It seems like, at most, Hunter Biden introduced a business associate to his dad. That's not a crime anywhere on the planet. Of course it would be a nothingburger even if true, but that's not the point from the Republican mindset. Like I've said over and over all the arguments from the Republican side are minor variations on the same argument. "It's not that I'm not as bad as you think I am, but the people who are criticizing me are as good as they think they are." So when the Right is caught doing something bad their defense is to find something thematically similar, even if totally different, someone on the Left did. If right now footage hits CNN of Eric Trump decapitating a hooker FoxNews would not stop until it found footage of Hunter Biden giving a homeless woman a haircut and present it as "See! See! He's doing something vaguely thematically similar if you squint really hard!"
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

16th October 2020, 06:37 AM	#207
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,314	Originally Posted by Armitage72 Apparently, they're still running with the idea that Joe Biden worked to get rid of the prosecutor in order to protect Bursima, and this was part of it. You know, the exact opposite of reality. Do we actually know what the reality was? As far as I'm aware of the facts, Hunter was getting paid at least $50k per month by the Ukrainian company (Burisma) without having anything obvious to offer them other than the connection to his father who was handling the allocation of aid to Ukraine. The Ukrainian prosecutor Shokin was investigating Burisma. There were claims that Shokin was corrupt amid complaints that he wasn't making progress on the investigation of Burisma. Biden threatened to withhold aid unless Shokin was fired. Shokin was forced out in Feb 2016. The case against Bursima was dropped in 2017. In 2018 the decision to annul the case was overruled and the oligarch behind Burisma fled the country. Trump was then impeached over the phone call pushing Ukraine to investigate this. Biden was accused of having a conflict of interest as his decisions directly benefitted the company that was paying his son $50k a month for no readily discernible reason. Biden claimed that there was no conflict because he never talked to his son about his overseas business. If these emails pan out, then we see in fact his son was connecting people within Burisma to Joe Biden, undermining Joe Biden's claims a bit. I don't think it is exactly proved that Biden was doing anything corrupt here, but I don't understand your certainty that he wasn't.
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,314	Last edited by shuttlt; 16th October 2020 at 06:39 AM.

16th October 2020, 06:42 AM	#208
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,386	Surprise, Surprise! Another Trump associate pleads guilty to illegal lobbying! https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...erate-with-u-s
	__________________ Ceterum autem censeo fox et amicis esse delendam.

16th October 2020, 07:04 AM	#210
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,314	Originally Posted by johnny karate Ah, yes. The old Conspiracy Theory Two-Step. Profess ignorance about a topic: “Gosh, we don’t know much about what really happened”. Then launch into your detailed conspiracy theory as if you’re just innocently spitballing off the top of your head. I didn't claim to be ignorant about the topic. Pretty much everything I said can be found on the Wikipedia pages for Burisma and Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch behind Burisma. Are any of the facts I claimed in my post controversial?
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,314

16th October 2020, 05:23 AM	#202
I Am The Scum Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,558	I'm gonna quote the super rad Parker Molloy on this one. Quote: I’m still waiting for someone, anyone to explain what the scandal is supposed to be and how these emails are evidence of it. Running headlines calling something a “smoking gun” does not make something a smoking gun. This is the same playbook as their “unmasking” nonsense. Trumpers really have lost their minds over this one. It seems like, at most, Hunter Biden introduced a business associate to his dad. That's not a crime anywhere on the planet.

16th October 2020, 05:48 AM	#203
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 5,186	Originally Posted by I Am The Scum Trumpers really have lost their minds over this one. It seems like, at most, Hunter Biden introduced a business associate to his dad. That's not a crime anywhere on the planet. Apparently, they're still running with the idea that Joe Biden worked to get rid of the prosecutor in order to protect Bursima, and this was part of it. You know, the exact opposite of reality.

16th October 2020, 06:13 AM	#205
jerrywayne Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,083	"When Giuliani went to Ukraine in December to investigate Burisma and the Bidens, he interacted with “people tied to Russian intelligence,” the Washington Post reported Thursday night. Intelligence officials feared Giuliani — a former federal prosecutor who is now a Trump lawyer and freelance White House investigator — was being used to feed Russian misinformation to the president, four former officials familiar with the matter told the newspaper. Their warning to Trump, one of the officials told the newspaper, was: "Do what you want to do, but your friend Rudy has been worked by Russian assets in Ukraine.” Trump “shrugged his shoulders” at the warning, the former official said. “That’s Rudy,” the president said dismissively." https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...?ocid=msedgdhp

16th October 2020, 06:37 AM	#206
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,228	Originally Posted by Bogative Nah, TDS sufferers are very predictable. Ha ha... TDS. Such a savage burn. It’s funny because 218,000 Americans are dead.

16th October 2020, 06:44 AM	#209
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,228	Originally Posted by shuttlt Do we actually know what the reality was? As far as I'm aware of the facts, Hunter was getting paid at least $50k per month by the Ukrainian company (Burisma) without having anything obvious to offer them other than the connection to his father who was handling the allocation of aid to Ukraine. The Ukrainian prosecutor Shokin was investigating Burisma. There were claims that Shokin was corrupt amid complaints that he wasn't making progress on the investigation of Burisma. Biden threatened to withhold aid unless Shokin was fired. Shokin was forced out in Feb 2016. The case against Bursima was dropped in 2017. In 2018 the decision to annul the case was overruled and the oligarch behind Burisma fled the country. Trump was then impeached over the phone call pushing Ukraine to investigate this. Biden was accused of having a conflict of interest as his decisions directly benefitted the company that was paying his son $50k a month for no readily discernible reason. Biden claimed that there was no conflict because he never talked to his son about his overseas business. If these emails pan out, then we see in fact his son was connecting people within Burisma to Joe Biden, undermining Joe Biden's claims a bit. I don't think it is exactly proved that Biden was doing anything corrupt here, but I don't understand your certainty that he wasn't. Ah, yes. The old Conspiracy Theory Two-Step. Profess ignorance about a topic: “Gosh, we don’t know much about what really happened”. Then launch into your detailed conspiracy theory as if you’re just innocently spitballing off the top of your head.

16th October 2020, 07:31 AM	#211
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,228	Originally Posted by shuttlt I didn't claim to be ignorant about the topic. Pretty much everything I said can be found on the Wikipedia pages for Burisma and Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch behind Burisma. Are any of the facts I claimed in my post controversial? How about the Republican-led Senate report that found no evidence of any wrongdoing? Did that happen to come up during your diligent research?

16th October 2020, 07:43 AM	#212
wareyin Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 8,155	Originally Posted by shuttlt I didn't claim to be ignorant about the topic. Pretty much everything I said can be found on the Wikipedia pages for Burisma and Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch behind Burisma. Are any of the facts I claimed in my post controversial? At least one of your claims is certainly not a fact. Shokin was in fact not investigating Burisma. I'm surprised you missed that on the Victor Shokin and Burisma Wikipedia pages.

16th October 2020, 07:50 AM	#213
I Am The Scum Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,558	Originally Posted by shuttlt The Ukrainian prosecutor Shokin was investigating Burisma. Citation, please.

16th October 2020, 07:52 AM	#214
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 29,947	Originally Posted by I Am The Scum Citation, please. Also Shuttit before you open your mouth "Prove I'm wrong" isn't a citation.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

16th October 2020, 08:12 AM	#215
jerrywayne Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,083	Originally Posted by shuttlt Do we actually know what the reality was? As far as I'm aware of the facts, Hunter was getting paid at least $50k per month by the Ukrainian company (Burisma) without having anything obvious to offer them other than the connection to his father who was handling the allocation of aid to Ukraine. The Ukrainian prosecutor Shokin was investigating Burisma. There were claims that Shokin was corrupt amid complaints that he wasn't making progress on the investigation of Burisma. Biden threatened to withhold aid unless Shokin was fired. Bottom line: Joe Biden was not the singular impetus in the firing of prosecutor Shokin. Ukrainian society orgs, the International Monetary Fund, the Obama administration, including the American Embassy in Ukraine, the European Union, foreign investors, etc., all wanted the corrupt Shokin out. So Biden wasn't performing a rogue operation in the Ukraine to help his son, but was delivering policy supported by Western and Ukrainian interests.
	Last edited by jerrywayne; 16th October 2020 at 08:13 AM.

16th October 2020, 08:17 AM	#216
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,369	Originally Posted by jerrywayne Bottom line: Joe Biden was not the singular impetus in the firing of prosecutor Shokin. Ukrainian society orgs, the International Monetary Fund, the Obama administration, including the American Embassy in Ukraine, the European Union, foreign investors, etc., all wanted the corrupt Shokin out. So Biden wasn't performing a rogue operation in the Ukraine to help his son, but was delivering policy supported by Western and Ukrainian interests. Yea, this. And the "claims that shokin may be corrupt" are kind of like "claims that Barry Bonds may have used steroids".
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

16th October 2020, 08:26 AM	#217
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 5,186	Originally Posted by timhau Yea, this. And the "claims that shokin may be corrupt" are kind of like "claims that Barry Bonds may have used steroids". Wouldn't a more appropriate simile be "claims that Donald Trump may use spray tan"?

16th October 2020, 08:51 AM	#218
TellyKNeasuss Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,625	Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss Another problem with the Hunter Biden laptop story: Hunter Biden was living in California at the time when the laptop was supposedly left at a repair shop in Delaware. A citation for the claim that Hunter Biden moved to California prior to the alleged trip to the Delaware computer repair shop: ps://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/08/will-hunter-biden-jeopardize-his-fathers-campaign
	__________________ "Facts are stupid things." Ronald Reagan

16th October 2020, 09:01 AM	#219
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State. Posts: 22,336	Originally Posted by shuttlt Do we actually know what the reality was? As far as I'm aware of the facts, Hunter was getting paid at least $50k per month by the Ukrainian company (Burisma) without having anything obvious to offer them other than the connection to his father who was handling the allocation of aid to Ukraine. The Ukrainian prosecutor Shokin was investigating Burisma. There were claims that Shokin was corrupt amid complaints that he wasn't making progress on the investigation of Burisma. Biden threatened to withhold aid unless Shokin was fired. Shokin was forced out in Feb 2016. The case against Bursima was dropped in 2017. In 2018 the decision to annul the case was overruled and the oligarch behind Burisma fled the country. Trump was then impeached over the phone call pushing Ukraine to investigate this. Biden was accused of having a conflict of interest as his decisions directly benefitted the company that was paying his son $50k a month for no readily discernible reason. Biden claimed that there was no conflict because he never talked to his son about his overseas business. If these emails pan out, then we see in fact his son was connecting people within Burisma to Joe Biden, undermining Joe Biden's claims a bit. I don't think it is exactly proved that Biden was doing anything corrupt here, but I don't understand your certainty that he wasn't. Even if Biden did apply pressure to aid his son, I don't care. If the choice is who is less corrupt, Biden still wins (and already got my vote and financial donations).
	__________________ A MAGA hat = a Swastika arm band. A vote for Trump is a vote for treason.

16th October 2020, 09:04 AM	#220
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 8,995	The core problem is that Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukranian gas company despite having no experience in the Ukraine or the gas industry. Despite having just been discharged from the Navy Reserve for cocaine use. This happened at a time when his father was Vice President and specifically handling Ukraine relations. That problematic appointment creates a ripe environment for speculation. Why was Hunter appointed if not to curry favor with the VP, his father? It really doesn't make sense any other way. A relatively reasonable person can make inferences that lead them to concluding that there was at least some motive for corruption on Burisma's part. Which, given the chain of events, a somewhat-less-but-still-reasonable interpretation is that there indeed was some corruption. I personally don't think there was, quite the opposite, in fact. I think there's plenty of evidence to show that Biden and the rest of the Western world wanted the prosecutor out because he wasn't pursuing obvious corruption, including that of Burisma. But it's that problematic confluence of established facts that raises the question in the first place: Why was Hunter Biden on a board of company he had no experience with in a country he had no experience with? Because his father was in charge of Ukraine policy - there simply is no other answer.
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 8,995	__________________ Hello.

16th October 2020, 09:14 AM	#221
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,386	Originally Posted by xjx388 The core problem is that Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukranian gas company despite having no experience in the Ukraine or the gas industry. Despite having just been discharged from the Navy Reserve for cocaine use. This happened at a time when his father was Vice President and specifically handling Ukraine relations. That problematic appointment creates a ripe environment for speculation. Why was Hunter appointed if not to curry favor with the VP, his father? It really doesn't make sense any other way. A relatively reasonable person can make inferences that lead them to concluding that there was at least some motive for corruption on Burisma's part. Which, given the chain of events, a somewhat-less-but-still-reasonable interpretation is that there indeed was some corruption. I personally don't think there was, quite the opposite, in fact. I think there's plenty of evidence to show that Biden and the rest of the Western world wanted the prosecutor out because he wasn't pursuing obvious corruption, including that of Burisma. But it's that problematic confluence of established facts that raises the question in the first place: Why was Hunter Biden on a board of company he had no experience with in a country he had no experience with? Because his father was in charge of Ukraine policy - there simply is no other answer. What Hunter did or didn't do is the one side of the issue, and it is the next-to-irrelevant one: we are not voting for Hunter for President. What voter should wonder is what Joe Biden did, and if what he did was according to the interests of the US and in accordance with State Department policy. Or if he put pressure to have US policy change to help his son's company. Of course, we don't have to even ask these questions in the case of Ivanka and Jared, because we all know the answer.
	__________________ Ceterum autem censeo fox et amicis esse delendam. Last edited by The Great Zaganza; 16th October 2020 at 09:15 AM.

16th October 2020, 09:21 AM	#222
wareyin Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 8,155	Originally Posted by xjx388 The core problem is that Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukranian gas company despite having no experience in the Ukraine or the gas industry. Despite having just been discharged from the Navy Reserve for cocaine use. A person on the board of a company has no experience in that industry? Just like on virtually every other board of directors out there? No, say it ain't so!

16th October 2020, 09:23 AM	#223
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 29,947	The tenuous link between things the Trumpers have to make in order to maintain their whataboutism is getting pathetic.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

16th October 2020, 09:28 AM	#224
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 8,995	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza What Hunter did or didn't do is the one side of the issue, and it is the next-to-irrelevant one: we are not voting for Hunter for President. What voter should wonder is what Joe Biden did, and if what he did was according to the interests of the US and in accordance with State Department policy. Or if he put pressure to have US policy change to help his son's company. Of course, we don't have to even ask these questions in the case of Ivanka and Jared, because we all know the answer. Oh, I absolutely agree. It's amazing to me that people who push the "Biden corruption" narrative don't see the obvious corruption happening right now in Trump's family. I think it's the simple fact that people on the GOP side are much better about getting their narratives, true or false, across than those on the Dem side. I'm surprised that Biden and his campaign hasn't been more vocal on this particular point given the focus on his son and himself.
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 8,995	__________________ Hello.

16th October 2020, 09:34 AM	#225
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,075	Last I checked, Hunter Biden didn't have to have his security clearance forced through by Daddy so that he could work for Daddy when he would have been declared a security risk in any other circumstance.
	__________________ www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun! Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.

16th October 2020, 09:44 AM	#226
Regnad Kcin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New York Posts: 10,192	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue This is like Watergate but if Nixon had left the tapes in his jacket pocket for dry cleaning except the tapes were just found in a random jacket pocket with "Nixon '76" pin on the lapel so they assumed they had to be Nixon's jacket oh and the tapes also didn't really exist. Tricky.
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

16th October 2020, 09:45 AM	#227
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 8,995	Originally Posted by wareyin A person on the board of a company has no experience in that industry? Just like on virtually every other board of directors out there? No, say it ain't so! Yes, this is indeed common in order to leverage connections and hijack prestige (see Theranos for an example of when it can backfire spectacularly). What I'm saying is that in this case, the close connection to the then VP overseeing that country's political relations is especially problematic. I mean, what would everyone say if Michael Pence (Mike Pence's son) was appointed to the board of some Russian company owned by a corrupt oligarch?
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 8,995	__________________ Hello.

16th October 2020, 09:48 AM	#228
turingtest Mistral, mistral wind... Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Embedded, reporting from Mississippi Posts: 4,552	Originally Posted by xjx388 Oh, I absolutely agree. It's amazing to me that people who push the "Biden corruption" narrative don't see the obvious corruption happening right now in Trump's family. I think it's the simple fact that people on the GOP side are much better about getting their narratives, true or false, across than those on the Dem side. I'm surprised that Biden and his campaign hasn't been more vocal on this particular point given the focus on his son and himself. It's entirely possible that, far from those people not seeing the corruption in Trump's family, it's the reason for their pushing the "Biden family corruption" narrative.
	__________________ I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

16th October 2020, 09:49 AM	#229
Regnad Kcin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New York Posts: 10,192	Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss YES!!! THAT'S IT!!! What a brilliant plan: Travel cross-country to drop off a laptop at a repair shop, don't tell the shop who you are and make sure that the owner has bad eyesight and can't recognize you, and don't ever retrieve the laptop with the expectation that the repair shop will wipe everything from the disk and sell the laptop to someone who lives 3,000 miles from you so that all traces of a secret meeting with a Ukrainian businessman will vanish forever. Excellent chronicle, except I'd like to add that his cross-country trip was likely aboard a remote-controlled holographic plane under the direction of Dick Cheney.
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie. Last edited by Regnad Kcin; 16th October 2020 at 10:01 AM.

16th October 2020, 10:20 AM	#230
jerrywayne Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,083	Originally Posted by xjx388 The core problem is that Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukranian gas company despite having no experience in the Ukraine or the gas industry. Despite having just been discharged from the Navy Reserve for cocaine use. This happened at a time when his father was Vice President and specifically handling Ukraine relations. That problematic appointment creates a ripe environment for speculation. Why was Hunter appointed if not to curry favor with the VP, his father? It really doesn't make sense any other way. A relatively reasonable person can make inferences that lead them to concluding that there was at least some motive for corruption on Burisma's part. Which, given the chain of events, a somewhat-less-but-still-reasonable interpretation is that there indeed was some corruption. I personally don't think there was, quite the opposite, in fact. I think there's plenty of evidence to show that Biden and the rest of the Western world wanted the prosecutor out because he wasn't pursuing obvious corruption, including that of Burisma. But it's that problematic confluence of established facts that raises the question in the first place: Why was Hunter Biden on a board of company he had no experience with in a country he had no experience with? Because his father was in charge of Ukraine policy - there simply is no other answer. The possible answer is mundane. Burisma was willing to pay Hunter's salary because having a Biden on the board would help turnaround its image and help attract needed investors.

16th October 2020, 10:32 AM	#231
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,314	Originally Posted by jerrywayne The possible answer is mundane. Burisma was willing to pay Hunter's salary because having a Biden on the board would help turnaround its image and help attract needed investors. Presumably any change he would make to their image would be as a result of a perceived connection to Joe Biden? That feels like almost the definition of conflict of interest. In any case, if these emails pan out, we have Hunter introducing people from Burisma to Joe... so the suggestion is that they were getting more for their money than just reflected glory.
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,314

16th October 2020, 10:49 AM	#232
Babbylonian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,424	Originally Posted by shuttlt Presumably any change he would make to their image would be as a result of a perceived connection to Joe Biden? That feels like almost the definition of conflict of interest. Oh, is that how it "feels?" What a ******* crock. If trading on one's name constituted a conflict of interest...ever heard the name Trump? Quote: In any case, if these emails pan out, we have Hunter introducing people from Burisma to Joe... so the suggestion is that they were getting more for their money than just reflected glory. It's been days and all that's been produced is an easily faked screenshot of a single e-mail and every aspect of the story strains credulity beyond the breaking point. In other words, this slander hasn't panned out. It's over except for the dishonest partisans who continue to pretend there was ever a credible story in the first place.

16th October 2020, 10:52 AM	#233
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,018	Originally Posted by shuttlt Presumably any change he would make to their image would be as a result of a perceived connection to Joe Biden? That feels like almost the definition of conflict of interest. In any case, if these emails pan out, we have Hunter introducing people from Burisma to Joe... so the suggestion is that they were getting more for their money than just reflected glory. Are you familiar with Hunter Biden's credentials? He's led a flourishing career of his own, he's no Half Scoop.
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,018

16th October 2020, 11:04 AM	#234
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,857	Originally Posted by xjx388 The core problem is that Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukranian gas company despite having no experience in the Ukraine or the gas industry. Despite having just been discharged from the Navy Reserve for cocaine use. This happened at a time when his father was Vice President and specifically handling Ukraine relations. That problematic appointment creates a ripe environment for speculation. Why was Hunter appointed if not to curry favor with the VP, his father? It really doesn't make sense any other way. A relatively reasonable person can make inferences that lead them to concluding that there was at least some motive for corruption on Burisma's part. Which, given the chain of events, a somewhat-less-but-still-reasonable interpretation is that there indeed was some corruption. I personally don't think there was, quite the opposite, in fact. I think there's plenty of evidence to show that Biden and the rest of the Western world wanted the prosecutor out because he wasn't pursuing obvious corruption, including that of Burisma. But it's that problematic confluence of established facts that raises the question in the first place: Why was Hunter Biden on a board of company he had no experience with in a country he had no experience with? Because his father was in charge of Ukraine policy - there simply is no other answer. Do you have a clue what Hunter's qualifications actually were? He has a Yale law degree and had a number of years of experience in various positions and companies. Vox has a good summary and they don't pull punches. Hunter Biden, the black sheep who got Trump impeached, explained (There is sarcasm there, I believe.) Quote: When his dad became vice president, Hunter left the Amtrak board and instead got involved with a series of investment companies. As detailed by Ben Schreckinger in Politico, a lot of this work seems to have hinged on Hunter and his uncle James Biden sort of hinting around that the family connection to the vice president could help get things done and then not delivering. The Obama administration generally regarded Hunter as a kind of embarrassing family black sheep rather than a real scandal. That's quite different from Biden getting his son the job.

16th October 2020, 11:06 AM	#235
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 16,869	Originally Posted by xjx388 The core problem is that Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukranian gas company despite having no experience in the Ukraine or the gas industry. As another poster had suggested... it is not unusual for people to serve on the board of directors for companies they do not have experience in. In fact it is probably the norm. (I guess companies want to have directors with a wide variety of experiences.) Now, lets consider Hunter Biden's experience, shall we? Before he joined Burisma, he: - Graduated law school (So, decently educated) - Became an executive for a financial organization - Founded multiple businesses, including one that does venture capital and one that does investments/advisory - Served on the board of Directors of Amtrak (after being appointed to the position by Bush, who was a republican the last time I checked.) So Biden does appear to have significant qualifications to serve on the board of directors of Barisma. Now, would he have been hired if he wasn't related to Joe Biden? Maybe, maybe not. I do admit that having someone even remotely related to the presidency would add a little prestige to the company. Quote: Why was Hunter appointed if not to curry favor with the VP, his father? It really doesn't make sense any other way. Now, would he have been hired if he wasn't related to Joe Biden? Maybe, maybe not. I do admit that having someone even remotely related to the presidency would add a little prestige to the company, which would be more than enough justification to hire him, even if Joe Biden wasn't going to be influenced as a results. (Despite insinuations from the MAGAchuds that he was some unemployed loser living in Joe Biden's basement before he was hired by Barisma, Hunter certainly was more than successful by that point in his career.)
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot Last edited by Segnosaur; 16th October 2020 at 11:09 AM.