Bill Barr and his October Surprise - Page 7

Horatius · 16th October 2020, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by xjx388

The core problem is that Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukranian gas company despite having no experience in the Ukraine or the gas industry. Despite having just been discharged from the Navy Reserve for cocaine use. This happened at a time when his father was Vice President and specifically handling Ukraine relations.

That problematic appointment creates a ripe environment for speculation. Why was Hunter appointed if not to curry favor with the VP, his father? It really doesn't make sense any other way. A relatively reasonable person can make inferences that lead them to concluding that there was at least some motive for corruption on Burisma's part.

Okay, so let's say this is all true, and Burisma did act with the intention of gaining influence over VP Biden. Fine.

That's an act of corruption by Burisma, not Biden.

Just because they hired his kid, is no reason he has to suddenly fall all over himself to start providing them with corrupt favors. "Do this or we'll fire your kid!" "Go ahead, you've already paid him $250,000 dollars, he can live on that for quite some time!"

Unless you can point to an act committed by VP Biden that is clearly corrupt, there's still nothing there. And after years of investigations backed by the president of the United States, the only evidence anyone has provided is this weaksauce "Oh, why did they hire him?" speculation. Their evidence for corruption is so weak that just this week they've started pushing obviously forged e-mails as evidence.

Babbylonian · 16th October 2020, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by dirtywick

it’s a private company anyway right? Whether or not they’re making bad hiring decisions is entirely up to them. Real question is what did Joe Biden do. And if the best you got is an email that Rudy Giuliani found in a water logged computer he got from a MAGA nut, well, LOL at you for believing that

An e-mail that, even if it's real (it isn't), doesn't even provide evidence of wrongdoing.

xjx388 · 16th October 2020, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Horatius

Okay, so let's say this is all true, and Burisma did act with the intention of gaining influence over VP Biden. Fine.

That's an act of corruption by Burisma, not Biden.

Just because they hired his kid, is no reason he has to suddenly fall all over himself to start providing them with corrupt favors. "Do this or we'll fire your kid!" "Go ahead, you've already paid him $250,000 dollars, he can live on that for quite some time!"

Unless you can point to an act committed by VP Biden that is clearly corrupt, there's still nothing there. And after years of investigations backed by the president of the United States, the only evidence anyone has provided is this weaksauce "Oh, why did they hire him?" speculation. Their evidence for corruption is so weak that just this week they've started pushing obviously forged e-mails as evidence.

As I very clearly said, I don't see any evidence that there was corruption on the Bidens' part. My point is that 1)It can, at the very least, create an appearance of impropriety which could have been avoided (and which was a concern for the Obama Admin at the time) and 2)Someone who is otherwise reasonable but not very well informed and/or partisan (which is, realistically at least half of America) can see the surface-level story, without digging for specifics like we here always do, and reach their own conclusions. "Biden pushed for the removal of the prosecutor looking into Burisma? Sounds fishy." Ignorant, yes.

I agree completely: There is no evidence of actual corruption on the Bidens' part. That doesn't matter much to a lot of Americans because 1)They don't care enough to dig deep or 2)They just want their side to win by any means necessary.

shuttlt · 16th October 2020, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by dirtywick

it’s a private company anyway right? Whether or not they’re making bad hiring decisions is entirely up to them. Real question is what did Joe Biden do. And if the best you got is an email that Rudy Giuliani found in a water logged computer he got from a MAGA nut, well, LOL at you for believing that

If they have been fabricated, that's good. The Biden campaign can safely state that unequivocally. The denials I've seen up until now have been non-denial denials, but maybe I've missed them actually claiming the emails are fake?

shuttlt · 16th October 2020, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by xjx388

As I very clearly said, I don't see any evidence that there was corruption on the Bidens' part. My point is that 1)It can, at the very least, create an appearance of impropriety which could have been avoided (and which was a concern for the Obama Admin at the time) and 2)Someone who is otherwise reasonable but not very well informed and/or partisan (which is, realistically at least half of America) can see the surface-level story, without digging for specifics like we here always do, and reach their own conclusions. "Biden pushed for the removal of the prosecutor looking into Burisma? Sounds fishy." Ignorant, yes.

I agree completely: There is no evidence of actual corruption on the Bidens' part. That doesn't matter much to a lot of Americans because 1)They don't care enough to dig deep or 2)They just want their side to win by any means necessary.

Are you including the quote from the second release of quotes from these emails:

Quote:

New leaked emails claim to show that Joe Biden visited the Ukraine just over a month after a Ukrainian business executive asked his son Hunter to arrange for 'highly-recognized and influential US policy makers' to travel to the country.

Revealed on Tucker Carlson Tonight, the November 2015 email from Vadym Pozharskyi says that the visits were needed to 'close down any pursuits against the head of the firm' Burisma where Hunter Biden sat on the board.

During Biden's visit the next month, he successfully pressured Ukrainian officials to fire the prosecutor who was looking into Pozharskyi's business.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...head-firm.html

Weirdly Googling that quote returns almost no hits. It's as if it's not being reported.

It looks like the emails are starting to edge closer to Joe Biden. Maybe this is as far as it goes, in which case he'll likely be OK.

dirtywick · 16th October 2020, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

If they have been fabricated, that's good. The Biden campaign can safely state that unequivocally. The denials I've seen up until now have been non-denial denials, but maybe I've missed them actually claiming the emails are fake?

No you haven’t missed it. The Biden campaign hasn’t given this nonsense the time of day, rightfully so. It’s very apparent that it’s very stupid

shuttlt · 16th October 2020, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

You're still going there?

Sure. Hillary's emails were supposedly hacked and released by the Russians and as far as I'm aware we never found out that they had been altered. Maybe the laptop was stolen and dropped off at the store by a Russian in a Biden mask? I don't know or care. The question is whether the emails are genuine. If they aren't it seems like it would be really easy for the Biden campaign to prove. Maybe they are waiting until the right moment to do that and are letting him go all in on this? It's possible. What ever happens the next few weeks are going to be entertaining.

wareyin · 16th October 2020, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

Are you including the quote from the second release of quotes from these emails:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...head-firm.html

Weirdly Googling that quote returns almost no hits. It's as if it's not being reported.

It looks like the emails are starting to edge closer to Joe Biden. Maybe this is as far as it goes, in which case he'll likely be OK.

What I find weird is that despite several posters explaining to you that Shokin was not investigating Burisma, as well as the sources you yourself said you got your info from also telling you that, here you are repeating the claim.

wareyin · 16th October 2020, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

Sure. Hillary's emails were supposedly hacked and released by the Russians and as far as I'm aware we never found out that they had been altered. Maybe the laptop was stolen and dropped off at the store by a Russian in a Biden mask? I don't know or care. The question is whether the emails are genuine. If they aren't it seems like it would be really easy for the Biden campaign to prove. Maybe they are waiting until the right moment to do that and are letting him go all in on this? It's possible. What ever happens the next few weeks are going to be entertaining.

How do you prove a screenshotted email from someone else's account is false? Or did the "second drop of emails" have more than a picture of a single email?

eta: scrolling through that report of a report of a report that you linked to, not one email was from Hunter Biden, nor were any actual emails released. Yet you still fall for this?

Tero · 16th October 2020, 02:00 PM

Hunter Biden's computer is at the FBI. No it's at Rudy's attorney's office. And it's just the hard drive. Hunter left a 12 minute video of himself having sex while smoking crack on the laptop. And it's been found at a shop in Delaware. Hunter lives in California. Elena Baturina sent Hunter Biden 3.5 million! Or at least she sent the money to someone or some corporation that sounds like Hunter Biden.

Did they need to make up so much crap at NY Post and Foxnews? Simply posting the forged email might have done something.

Stacyhs · 16th October 2020, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

Presumably any change he would make to their image would be as a result of a perceived connection to Joe Biden? That feels like almost the definition of conflict of interest. In any case, if these emails pan out, we have Hunter introducing people from Burisma to Joe... so the suggestion is that they were getting more for their money than just reflected glory.

AIUI, there is no allegation of "people" being introduced. There is talk of one possible meeting in the future with Biden. A meeting which Biden's people say did not take place.

Stacyhs · 16th October 2020, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Disbelief

Yep, we can easily see how Trumplethinskins will react (Total Devotion Syndrome).

Love it!

I wonder what the Trump cultists will do when Trump goes down in defeat after the election. I suppose go into defense mode when the state criminal charges start coming in. We all know Trump will either pardon himself or have Pres. Pence pardon him when Trump resigns at the last minute if all else fails.

Babbylonian · 16th October 2020, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

If they have been fabricated, that's good. The Biden campaign can safely state that unequivocally. The denials I've seen up until now have been non-denial denials, but maybe I've missed them actually claiming the emails are fake?

That they've been fabricated is obvious to anyone who can think. Officially declaring them such requires access to the liars who are releasing this garbage. That's why those with standing are simply waving the nonsense away without commenting substantively. Not only would commenting substantively lend credence to total lies but it would provide another angle of attack for the lying shills who keep wanting to promote the lies: "How can they say that the evidence has been fabricated if they haven't examined it?"

Attempting to converse in any sensible fashion with people intent on lying and fabricating evidence is a no-win scenario, especially if all the liars have to do is keep the ball in the air for a few weeks.

Fortunately, they have people like you to play make believe on the Internet and spread the lies around. Since Twitter won't ban every single scumsucker who promotes this BS (such as the President), the lies will spread no matter how obviously false they are.

xjx388 · 16th October 2020, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

...obvious to anyone who can think.

Here's the problem.

---
I don't know that the fact they are fabricated is obvious, but the fact that they are completely unverified and unevidenced certainly is.

That won't matter to people who consider the NYPost a reliable source. That won't matter to the average person who doesn't dig beyond the headlines. That won't matter to Trump supporters who simply aren't going to vet the info themselves.

There are elements of the free press that are actively spreading misinformation without any journalistic integrity. The problem is how to convince our nation with it's sizable share of people who buy into conspiracy theories and love throwing mud around, true or not, that those sources are worthless. This distrust of the media has been successfully sown by sycophantic spreaders of pseudo-conservative slime (like Rush Limbaugh) since they started streaming their silliness over the airwaves decades ago. It's an engrained mindset of too much of America at this point.

dudalb · 16th October 2020, 03:14 PM

I always thought that even if it turned out to be true, given what has come out about the Trump admiistration it would have been a wash....screaming "Your're Another!" has nevr worked all that well.

dudalb · 16th October 2020, 03:21 PM

And with it clear there is not going to be any breakthrough with a virus vaccine before the election, the cnances of an October Suprise is now very low. It would have to be something out of the blue.

Giordano · 16th October 2020, 03:40 PM

To my knowledge it is not illegal to hire someone because they are related to an influential person. They don’t even need to have any other specific-related demonstrable skills. It is done in business and politics all the time. Typically the advantage is implied and diffuse. The idea that the hire will help the company achieve better access to the influential person is implied but is not usually explicitly spoken of. It need not be. The company just happens to value this person. Prove they don’t! Hunter may not be the tip-top hire but to imply he has zero appropriate skills is just wrong.

As far as I know neither is it illegal to say, “Hey, would you like to meet my Dad?” The so called smoking gun, even if an accurate depiction of the email (and there are huge holes in the story) is meaningless. Even stupid. So what if there was an invitation to meet his dad? One would have to show a direct reciprocity, a specific deal in exchange for Hunter’s hire. An important client meeting a partner’s family happens all the time in business.

I Am The Scum · 16th October 2020, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

In any case, if these emails pan out, we have Hunter introducing people from Burisma to Joe... so the suggestion is that they were getting more for their money than just reflected glory.

I want to make sure I understand your position as clearly as possible. What follows is my attempt at stating what you believe is the most "severe" allegation one can infer from the story:

Hunter Biden introduced one of his fellow business executives to his father.

If I'm wrong, correct me. Does the bold section understate your case?

portlandatheist · 16th October 2020, 04:19 PM

OK, I'm convinced. I will not be voting for Hunter Biden.

Skeptic Ginger · 16th October 2020, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

Are you including the quote from the second release of quotes from these emails:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...head-firm.html

Weirdly Googling that quote returns almost no hits. It's as if it's not being reported.

It looks like the emails are starting to edge closer to Joe Biden. Maybe this is as far as it goes, in which case he'll likely be OK.

Are you still trying to make this ridiculously poor attempt at producing a fake story real?

kookbreaker · 16th October 2020, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Are you still trying to make this ridiculously poor attempt at producing a fake story real?

Trumper
Desperation
Status

Skeptic Ginger · 16th October 2020, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

Sure. Hillary's emails were supposedly hacked and released by the Russians and as far as I'm aware we never found out that they had been altered. Maybe the laptop was stolen and dropped off at the store by a Russian in a Biden mask? I don't know or care. The question is whether the emails are genuine. If they aren't it seems like it would be really easy for the Biden campaign to prove. Maybe they are waiting until the right moment to do that and are letting him go all in on this? It's possible. What ever happens the next few weeks are going to be entertaining.

Why should Biden disprove Giuliani's laughable attempt? It's laughable!

There is no evidence the emails are anything but a genuine fraud.

jerrywayne · 16th October 2020, 07:57 PM

The latest:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fb...?ocid=msedgntp

dudalb · 16th October 2020, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by jerrywayne

The latest:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fb...?ocid=msedgntp

So the whole thing might have "Made In Moscow" stamped on it. Why am I not surprised?

TahiniBinShawarma · 16th October 2020, 08:34 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bXgULtz6cI

Posted Sept 30th, so this pre dates the NYPost

TahiniBinShawarma · 16th October 2020, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bXgULtz6cI

Posted Sept 30th, so this pre dates the NYPost

Also, Bannon, Giuliani, the guy from the video, and virus conspiracy chick in the mirror. Bannon is behind Giuliani. So while you are screaming Russia, it's more than likely China. Although, I haven't seen anything to say the laptop wasn't Hunter's, or that it was a hack. If anyone has evidence of that, I'd like to see it. The Campaign/Biden haven't alleged that.

People here are stuck on Russia/Ukraine/Burisma, the incriminating stuff is the China allegations.

Also, FoxNews supposedly contacted someone in the email chain regarding Chinese business FWIW. They supposedly authenticated the email.

TahiniBinShawarma · 16th October 2020, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

So the whole thing might have "Made In Moscow" stamped on it. Why am I not surprised?

Because you've been told that the sky is falling and there are Russians under your bed, and you believe it?

TahiniBinShawarma · 16th October 2020, 08:56 PM

Also, Peter Schweitzer has 26,000 emails given to him by Hunter Biden's business partner Bevan Cooney who is now in jail. So there's that.

Minoosh · 16th October 2020, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by shuttlt

Sure. Hillary's emails were supposedly hacked and released by the Russians and as far as I'm aware we never found out that they had been altered. Maybe the laptop was stolen and dropped off at the store by a Russian in a Biden mask? I don't know or care. The question is whether the emails are genuine. If they aren't it seems like it would be really easy for the Biden campaign to prove. Maybe they are waiting until the right moment to do that and are letting him go all in on this? It's possible. What ever happens the next few weeks are going to be entertaining.

Sounds like Birtherism, Part 2.

Two questions:

What level of proof you would accept from the Biden campaign?

And why the campaign? This has nothing to do with the election.

TahiniBinShawarma · 16th October 2020, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

Sounds like Birtherism, Part 2.

Two questions:

What level of proof you would accept from the Biden campaign?

And why the campaign? This has nothing to do with the election.

I'm not sure why you would say that, given the emails supposedly have Hunter saying "Pop" makes him give half the money to him in one, and 10 million in Chinese money is for "the big man" in another.

The Great Zaganza · 16th October 2020, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma

I'm not sure why you would say that, given the emails supposedly have Hunter saying "Pop" makes him give half the money to him in one, and 10 million in Chinese money is for "the big man" in another.

citation?

Elagabalus · 16th October 2020, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma

Also, Peter Schweitzer has 26,000 emails given to him by Hunter Biden's business partner Bevan Cooney who is now in jail. So there's that.

Uh-huh. Pull the other one, agent trollski.

Silly Green Monkey · 16th October 2020, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma

Also, Bannon, Giuliani, the guy from the video, and virus conspiracy chick in the mirror. Bannon is behind Giuliani. So while you are screaming Russia, it's more than likely China. Although, I haven't seen anything to say the laptop wasn't Hunter's, or that it was a hack. If anyone has evidence of that, I'd like to see it. The Campaign/Biden haven't alleged that.

People here are stuck on Russia/Ukraine/Burisma, the incriminating stuff is the China allegations.

Also, FoxNews supposedly contacted someone in the email chain regarding Chinese business FWIW. They supposedly authenticated the email.

How'd the laptop get from the west coast to the east coast? That's over three thousand miles to find a Mac repair place.

Minoosh · 16th October 2020, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma

Also, Peter Schweitzer has 26,000 emails given to him by Hunter Biden's business partner Bevan Cooney who is now in jail. So there's that.

Therefore ... what?

TahiniBinShawarma · 16th October 2020, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

citation?

Take your pick.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...4dUDCA0&uact=5

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...4dUDCA0&uact=5

Elagabalus · 16th October 2020, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma

Take your pick.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...4dUDCA0&uact=5

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...4dUDCA0&uact=5

Golly! Did you google those all yourself?!

TahiniBinShawarma · 16th October 2020, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey

How'd the laptop get from the west coast to the east coast? That's over three thousand miles to find a Mac repair place.

The shop was in Delaware, gee I wonder why a Biden would ever want to TRAVEL to Delaware. I mean, they are so poor and never go anywhere.

Minoosh · 16th October 2020, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

Therefore ... what?

Ninja'd, pretty much. It's pathetic that Barr hasn't been able to indict any of Trump's enemies. I mean, there are reams of evidence. Thousands and thousands of emails.

Or maybe Barr is in on it?

Minoosh · 16th October 2020, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma

I'm not sure why you would say that, given the emails supposedly have Hunter saying "Pop" makes him give half the money to him in one, and 10 million in Chinese money is for "the big man" in another.

You're not sure why I would say what?

TahiniBinShawarma · 16th October 2020, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

Therefore ... what?

How would I know? I don't have them. All I was doing is pointing it out while we were on the subject of Biden's emails. Not sure why he would turn them over to a guy like Schweitzer. But it's going to be pretty funny seeing the reaction to whatever he does with them.

16th October 2020, 12:48 PM	#241
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,927	Originally Posted by xjx388 The core problem is that Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukranian gas company despite having no experience in the Ukraine or the gas industry. Despite having just been discharged from the Navy Reserve for cocaine use. This happened at a time when his father was Vice President and specifically handling Ukraine relations. That problematic appointment creates a ripe environment for speculation. Why was Hunter appointed if not to curry favor with the VP, his father? It really doesn't make sense any other way. A relatively reasonable person can make inferences that lead them to concluding that there was at least some motive for corruption on Burisma's part. Okay, so let's say this is all true, and Burisma did act with the intention of gaining influence over VP Biden. Fine. That's an act of corruption by Burisma, not Biden. Just because they hired his kid, is no reason he has to suddenly fall all over himself to start providing them with corrupt favors. "Do this or we'll fire your kid!" "Go ahead, you've already paid him $250,000 dollars, he can live on that for quite some time!" Unless you can point to an act committed by VP Biden that is clearly corrupt, there's still nothing there. And after years of investigations backed by the president of the United States, the only evidence anyone has provided is this weaksauce "Oh, why did they hire him?" speculation. Their evidence for corruption is so weak that just this week they've started pushing obviously forged e-mails as evidence.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

16th October 2020, 01:25 PM	#243
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,003	Originally Posted by Horatius Okay, so let's say this is all true, and Burisma did act with the intention of gaining influence over VP Biden. Fine. That's an act of corruption by Burisma, not Biden. Just because they hired his kid, is no reason he has to suddenly fall all over himself to start providing them with corrupt favors. "Do this or we'll fire your kid!" "Go ahead, you've already paid him $250,000 dollars, he can live on that for quite some time!" Unless you can point to an act committed by VP Biden that is clearly corrupt, there's still nothing there. And after years of investigations backed by the president of the United States, the only evidence anyone has provided is this weaksauce "Oh, why did they hire him?" speculation. Their evidence for corruption is so weak that just this week they've started pushing obviously forged e-mails as evidence. As I very clearly said, I don't see any evidence that there was corruption on the Bidens' part. My point is that 1)It can, at the very least, create an appearance of impropriety which could have been avoided (and which was a concern for the Obama Admin at the time) and 2)Someone who is otherwise reasonable but not very well informed and/or partisan (which is, realistically at least half of America) can see the surface-level story, without digging for specifics like we here always do, and reach their own conclusions. "Biden pushed for the removal of the prosecutor looking into Burisma? Sounds fishy." Ignorant, yes. I agree completely: There is no evidence of actual corruption on the Bidens' part. That doesn't matter much to a lot of Americans because 1)They don't care enough to dig deep or 2)They just want their side to win by any means necessary.
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,003	__________________ Hello.

16th October 2020, 01:39 PM	#244
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,314	Originally Posted by dirtywick it’s a private company anyway right? Whether or not they’re making bad hiring decisions is entirely up to them. Real question is what did Joe Biden do. And if the best you got is an email that Rudy Giuliani found in a water logged computer he got from a MAGA nut, well, LOL at you for believing that If they have been fabricated, that's good. The Biden campaign can safely state that unequivocally. The denials I've seen up until now have been non-denial denials, but maybe I've missed them actually claiming the emails are fake?
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,314

16th October 2020, 01:44 PM	#245
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,314	Originally Posted by xjx388 As I very clearly said, I don't see any evidence that there was corruption on the Bidens' part. My point is that 1)It can, at the very least, create an appearance of impropriety which could have been avoided (and which was a concern for the Obama Admin at the time) and 2)Someone who is otherwise reasonable but not very well informed and/or partisan (which is, realistically at least half of America) can see the surface-level story, without digging for specifics like we here always do, and reach their own conclusions. "Biden pushed for the removal of the prosecutor looking into Burisma? Sounds fishy." Ignorant, yes. I agree completely: There is no evidence of actual corruption on the Bidens' part. That doesn't matter much to a lot of Americans because 1)They don't care enough to dig deep or 2)They just want their side to win by any means necessary. Are you including the quote from the second release of quotes from these emails: Quote: New leaked emails claim to show that Joe Biden visited the Ukraine just over a month after a Ukrainian business executive asked his son Hunter to arrange for 'highly-recognized and influential US policy makers' to travel to the country. Revealed on Tucker Carlson Tonight, the November 2015 email from Vadym Pozharskyi says that the visits were needed to 'close down any pursuits against the head of the firm' Burisma where Hunter Biden sat on the board. During Biden's visit the next month, he successfully pressured Ukrainian officials to fire the prosecutor who was looking into Pozharskyi's business. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...head-firm.html Weirdly Googling that quote returns almost no hits. It's as if it's not being reported. It looks like the emails are starting to edge closer to Joe Biden. Maybe this is as far as it goes, in which case he'll likely be OK.
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,314	Last edited by shuttlt; 16th October 2020 at 01:47 PM.

16th October 2020, 01:48 PM	#246
dirtywick Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,897	Originally Posted by shuttlt If they have been fabricated, that's good. The Biden campaign can safely state that unequivocally. The denials I've seen up until now have been non-denial denials, but maybe I've missed them actually claiming the emails are fake? No you haven’t missed it. The Biden campaign hasn’t given this nonsense the time of day, rightfully so. It’s very apparent that it’s very stupid
dirtywick Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,897

16th October 2020, 12:49 PM	#242
Babbylonian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,425	Originally Posted by dirtywick it’s a private company anyway right? Whether or not they’re making bad hiring decisions is entirely up to them. Real question is what did Joe Biden do. And if the best you got is an email that Rudy Giuliani found in a water logged computer he got from a MAGA nut, well, LOL at you for believing that An e-mail that, even if it's real (it isn't), doesn't even provide evidence of wrongdoing.

16th October 2020, 01:56 PM	#247
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,314	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger You're still going there? Sure. Hillary's emails were supposedly hacked and released by the Russians and as far as I'm aware we never found out that they had been altered. Maybe the laptop was stolen and dropped off at the store by a Russian in a Biden mask? I don't know or care. The question is whether the emails are genuine. If they aren't it seems like it would be really easy for the Biden campaign to prove. Maybe they are waiting until the right moment to do that and are letting him go all in on this? It's possible. What ever happens the next few weeks are going to be entertaining.
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,314

16th October 2020, 01:57 PM	#248
wareyin Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 8,178	Originally Posted by shuttlt Are you including the quote from the second release of quotes from these emails: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...head-firm.html Weirdly Googling that quote returns almost no hits. It's as if it's not being reported. It looks like the emails are starting to edge closer to Joe Biden. Maybe this is as far as it goes, in which case he'll likely be OK. What I find weird is that despite several posters explaining to you that Shokin was not investigating Burisma, as well as the sources you yourself said you got your info from also telling you that, here you are repeating the claim.

16th October 2020, 01:59 PM	#249
wareyin Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 8,178	Originally Posted by shuttlt Sure. Hillary's emails were supposedly hacked and released by the Russians and as far as I'm aware we never found out that they had been altered. Maybe the laptop was stolen and dropped off at the store by a Russian in a Biden mask? I don't know or care. The question is whether the emails are genuine. If they aren't it seems like it would be really easy for the Biden campaign to prove. Maybe they are waiting until the right moment to do that and are letting him go all in on this? It's possible. What ever happens the next few weeks are going to be entertaining. How do you prove a screenshotted email from someone else's account is false? Or did the "second drop of emails" have more than a picture of a single email? eta: scrolling through that report of a report of a report that you linked to, not one email was from Hunter Biden, nor were any actual emails released. Yet you still fall for this?
	Last edited by wareyin; 16th October 2020 at 02:02 PM.

16th October 2020, 02:00 PM	#250
Tero Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 2,169	Hunter Biden's computer is at the FBI. No it's at Rudy's attorney's office. And it's just the hard drive. Hunter left a 12 minute video of himself having sex while smoking crack on the laptop. And it's been found at a shop in Delaware. Hunter lives in California. Elena Baturina sent Hunter Biden 3.5 million! Or at least she sent the money to someone or some corporation that sounds like Hunter Biden. Did they need to make up so much crap at NY Post and Foxnews? Simply posting the forged email might have done something.
	__________________ I've deleted the one blog link. You can find the humor blog by searching "the kari report blogspot." Politics blog: https://esapolitics.blogspot.com/

16th October 2020, 02:13 PM	#251
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 17,506	Originally Posted by shuttlt Presumably any change he would make to their image would be as a result of a perceived connection to Joe Biden? That feels like almost the definition of conflict of interest. In any case, if these emails pan out, we have Hunter introducing people from Burisma to Joe... so the suggestion is that they were getting more for their money than just reflected glory. AIUI, there is no allegation of "people" being introduced. There is talk of one possible meeting in the future with Biden. A meeting which Biden's people say did not take place.

16th October 2020, 02:16 PM	#252
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 17,506	Originally Posted by Disbelief Yep, we can easily see how Trumplethinskins will react (Total Devotion Syndrome). Love it! I wonder what the Trump cultists will do when Trump goes down in defeat after the election. I suppose go into defense mode when the state criminal charges start coming in. We all know Trump will either pardon himself or have Pres. Pence pardon him when Trump resigns at the last minute if all else fails.

16th October 2020, 02:21 PM	#253
Babbylonian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,425	Originally Posted by shuttlt If they have been fabricated, that's good. The Biden campaign can safely state that unequivocally. The denials I've seen up until now have been non-denial denials, but maybe I've missed them actually claiming the emails are fake? That they've been fabricated is obvious to anyone who can think. Officially declaring them such requires access to the liars who are releasing this garbage. That's why those with standing are simply waving the nonsense away without commenting substantively. Not only would commenting substantively lend credence to total lies but it would provide another angle of attack for the lying shills who keep wanting to promote the lies: "How can they say that the evidence has been fabricated if they haven't examined it?" Attempting to converse in any sensible fashion with people intent on lying and fabricating evidence is a no-win scenario, especially if all the liars have to do is keep the ball in the air for a few weeks. Fortunately, they have people like you to play make believe on the Internet and spread the lies around. Since Twitter won't ban every single scumsucker who promotes this BS (such as the President), the lies will spread no matter how obviously false they are.

16th October 2020, 03:04 PM	#254
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,003	Originally Posted by Babbylonian ...obvious to anyone who can think. Here's the problem. --- I don't know that the fact they are fabricated is obvious, but the fact that they are completely unverified and unevidenced certainly is. That won't matter to people who consider the NYPost a reliable source. That won't matter to the average person who doesn't dig beyond the headlines. That won't matter to Trump supporters who simply aren't going to vet the info themselves. There are elements of the free press that are actively spreading misinformation without any journalistic integrity. The problem is how to convince our nation with it's sizable share of people who buy into conspiracy theories and love throwing mud around, true or not, that those sources are worthless. This distrust of the media has been successfully sown by sycophantic spreaders of pseudo-conservative slime (like Rush Limbaugh) since they started streaming their silliness over the airwaves decades ago. It's an engrained mindset of too much of America at this point.
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,003	__________________ Hello.

16th October 2020, 03:14 PM	#255
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,005	I always thought that even if it turned out to be true, given what has come out about the Trump admiistration it would have been a wash....screaming "Your're Another!" has nevr worked all that well.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

16th October 2020, 03:21 PM	#256
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,005	And with it clear there is not going to be any breakthrough with a virus vaccine before the election, the cnances of an October Suprise is now very low. It would have to be something out of the blue.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

16th October 2020, 03:40 PM	#257
Giordano Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 17,646	To my knowledge it is not illegal to hire someone because they are related to an influential person. They don’t even need to have any other specific-related demonstrable skills. It is done in business and politics all the time. Typically the advantage is implied and diffuse. The idea that the hire will help the company achieve better access to the influential person is implied but is not usually explicitly spoken of. It need not be. The company just happens to value this person. Prove they don’t! Hunter may not be the tip-top hire but to imply he has zero appropriate skills is just wrong. As far as I know neither is it illegal to say, “Hey, would you like to meet my Dad?” The so called smoking gun, even if an accurate depiction of the email (and there are huge holes in the story) is meaningless. Even stupid. So what if there was an invitation to meet his dad? One would have to show a direct reciprocity, a specific deal in exchange for Hunter’s hire. An important client meeting a partner’s family happens all the time in business.

16th October 2020, 04:09 PM	#258
I Am The Scum Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,558	Originally Posted by shuttlt In any case, if these emails pan out, we have Hunter introducing people from Burisma to Joe... so the suggestion is that they were getting more for their money than just reflected glory. I want to make sure I understand your position as clearly as possible. What follows is my attempt at stating what you believe is the most "severe" allegation one can infer from the story: Hunter Biden introduced one of his fellow business executives to his father. If I'm wrong, correct me. Does the bold section understate your case?

16th October 2020, 04:19 PM	#259
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,584	OK, I'm convinced. I will not be voting for Hunter Biden.

16th October 2020, 04:22 PM	#260
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,899	Originally Posted by shuttlt Are you including the quote from the second release of quotes from these emails: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...head-firm.html Weirdly Googling that quote returns almost no hits. It's as if it's not being reported. It looks like the emails are starting to edge closer to Joe Biden. Maybe this is as far as it goes, in which case he'll likely be OK. Are you still trying to make this ridiculously poor attempt at producing a fake story real?

16th October 2020, 04:26 PM	#261
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,092	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Are you still trying to make this ridiculously poor attempt at producing a fake story real? Trumper Desperation Status
	__________________ www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun! Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.

16th October 2020, 04:44 PM	#262
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,899	Originally Posted by shuttlt Sure. Hillary's emails were supposedly hacked and released by the Russians and as far as I'm aware we never found out that they had been altered. Maybe the laptop was stolen and dropped off at the store by a Russian in a Biden mask? I don't know or care. The question is whether the emails are genuine. If they aren't it seems like it would be really easy for the Biden campaign to prove. Maybe they are waiting until the right moment to do that and are letting him go all in on this? It's possible. What ever happens the next few weeks are going to be entertaining. Why should Biden disprove Giuliani's laughable attempt? It's laughable! There is no evidence the emails are anything but a genuine fraud.

16th October 2020, 07:57 PM	#263
jerrywayne Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,083	The latest: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fb...?ocid=msedgntp

16th October 2020, 08:15 PM	#264
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,005	Originally Posted by jerrywayne The latest: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fb...?ocid=msedgntp So the whole thing might have "Made In Moscow" stamped on it. Why am I not surprised?
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

16th October 2020, 08:34 PM	#265
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bXgULtz6cI Posted Sept 30th, so this pre dates the NYPost
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756

16th October 2020, 08:46 PM	#267
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756	Originally Posted by dudalb So the whole thing might have "Made In Moscow" stamped on it. Why am I not surprised? Because you've been told that the sky is falling and there are Russians under your bed, and you believe it?
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756

16th October 2020, 08:56 PM	#268
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756	Also, Peter Schweitzer has 26,000 emails given to him by Hunter Biden's business partner Bevan Cooney who is now in jail. So there's that.
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756

16th October 2020, 09:05 PM	#269
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 12,129	Originally Posted by shuttlt Sure. Hillary's emails were supposedly hacked and released by the Russians and as far as I'm aware we never found out that they had been altered. Maybe the laptop was stolen and dropped off at the store by a Russian in a Biden mask? I don't know or care. The question is whether the emails are genuine. If they aren't it seems like it would be really easy for the Biden campaign to prove. Maybe they are waiting until the right moment to do that and are letting him go all in on this? It's possible. What ever happens the next few weeks are going to be entertaining. Sounds like Birtherism, Part 2. Two questions: What level of proof you would accept from the Biden campaign? And why the campaign? This has nothing to do with the election.

16th October 2020, 09:13 PM	#270
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756	Originally Posted by Minoosh Sounds like Birtherism, Part 2. Two questions: What level of proof you would accept from the Biden campaign? And why the campaign? This has nothing to do with the election. I'm not sure why you would say that, given the emails supposedly have Hunter saying "Pop" makes him give half the money to him in one, and 10 million in Chinese money is for "the big man" in another.
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756

16th October 2020, 09:16 PM	#271
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,417	Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma I'm not sure why you would say that, given the emails supposedly have Hunter saying "Pop" makes him give half the money to him in one, and 10 million in Chinese money is for "the big man" in another. citation?
	__________________ Ceterum autem censeo fox et amicis esse delendam.

16th October 2020, 09:17 PM	#272
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 6,906	Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma Also, Peter Schweitzer has 26,000 emails given to him by Hunter Biden's business partner Bevan Cooney who is now in jail. So there's that. Uh-huh. Pull the other one, agent trollski.
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 6,906

16th October 2020, 09:20 PM	#273
Silly Green Monkey Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,189	Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma Also, Bannon, Giuliani, the guy from the video, and virus conspiracy chick in the mirror. Bannon is behind Giuliani. So while you are screaming Russia, it's more than likely China. Although, I haven't seen anything to say the laptop wasn't Hunter's, or that it was a hack. If anyone has evidence of that, I'd like to see it. The Campaign/Biden haven't alleged that. People here are stuck on Russia/Ukraine/Burisma, the incriminating stuff is the China allegations. Also, FoxNews supposedly contacted someone in the email chain regarding Chinese business FWIW. They supposedly authenticated the email. How'd the laptop get from the west coast to the east coast? That's over three thousand miles to find a Mac repair place.
	__________________ Normal is just a stereotype.

16th October 2020, 09:26 PM	#274
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 12,129	Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma Also, Peter Schweitzer has 26,000 emails given to him by Hunter Biden's business partner Bevan Cooney who is now in jail. So there's that. Therefore ... what?

16th October 2020, 09:28 PM	#275
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza citation? Take your pick. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...4dUDCA0&uact=5 https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...4dUDCA0&uact=5
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756

16th October 2020, 09:30 PM	#276
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 6,906	Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma Take your pick. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...4dUDCA0&uact=5 https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...4dUDCA0&uact=5 Golly! Did you google those all yourself?!
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 6,906