[Continuation] 2020 Presidential Election part 3 - Page 10

TahiniBinShawarma · 9th November 2020, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Paul2

Handpicking the electors, not auditing the election, is perhaps the only way the Leg might insert themselves, but the SCOTUS in the past has ruled that a Leg. can only determine how electors are chosen by passing a law, which means the Governor has to sign it. Also, doing so after an election is over, for that election, is sketchy.

This is the only place at which my paranoia comes back, as this SCOTUS is not that SCOTUS of the past.

Also, more quick reading. With Clinton it was people wanting Trump electors to defect to Clinton.

Captain_Swoop · 9th November 2020, 05:36 PM

Trump Tweets

@FoxNews, @QuinnipiacPoll, ABC/WaPo, NBC/WSJ were so inaccurate with their polls on me, that it really is tampering with an Election. They were so far off in their polling, and in their attempt to suppress - that they should be called out for Election Interference...

...ABC/WaPo had me down 17 points in Wisconsin, the day before the election, and I WON! In Iowa, the polls had us 4 points down, and I won by 8.2%! Fox News and Quinnipiac were wrong on everything...

...The worst polling ever, and then they’ll be back in four years to do it again. This is much more then voter and campaign finance suppression!

TahiniBinShawarma · 9th November 2020, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Paul2

selecting electors is different significantly than investigations. The Leg can investigate all they want but it changes nothing about the power and schedule for how an election is audited and certified. Unless they go contrary to past SCOTUS and hand pick the electors.

Like you said, not the same supreme court, so who knows.

Captain_Swoop · 9th November 2020, 05:38 PM

Trump Tweets

The @US_FDA and the Democrats didn’t want to have me get a Vaccine WIN, prior to the election, so instead it came out five days later – As I’ve said all along!

acbytesla · 9th November 2020, 05:50 PM

Pennsylvania
99 % reporting
Joe Biden. 49.8% 3,365,798
Donald Trump. 49.1% 3,320,459

BobTheCoward · 9th November 2020, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Pennsylvania
99 % reporting
Joe Biden. 49.8% 3,365,798
Donald Trump. 49.1% 3,320,459

And omits the 100k disputed ballots?

acbytesla · 9th November 2020, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

And omits the 100k disputed ballots?

What 100K disputed ballots? I've read only about a few thousand that have postmarks on or before election day and received a day or two later.

BobTheCoward · 9th November 2020, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

What 100K disputed ballots? I've read only about a few thousand that have postmarks on or before election day and received a day or two later.

Sorry. That was an earlier story about naked ballots.

These postmarked ballots are not in the total, correct?

SezMe · 9th November 2020, 06:30 PM

acbytesla · 9th November 2020, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

Sorry. That was an earlier story about naked ballots.

These postmarked ballots are not in the total, correct?

I think they are. But they must be separated. In other words, the court reserves the right to revoke them and readjust the count. The judge sort of punted.

slyjoe · 9th November 2020, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Well, that one is easy: Wisconsin has same day registration so comparing votes to already-registered is invalid.

I suspect the rest have a similar, easy to put together explanation. To say your claims are backed by evidence lacks merit.

In fact, it was 2018 registrations vs 2020 votes, I believe.

eerok · 9th November 2020, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I think they are. But they must be separated. In other words, the court reserves the right to revoke them and readjust the count. The judge sort of punted.

My understanding is that the ballots in question in PA are separate, shrink-wrapped, and uncounted. I heard this several times from officials through the course of the counting.

wareyin · 9th November 2020, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by eerok

My understanding is that the ballots in question in PA are separate, shrink-wrapped, and uncounted. I heard this several times from officials through the course of the counting.

I believe they have been counted, but that number has not been included in Biden's (or Trump's) tally yet. I'm seeing 3,000 to 4,000 but they are not in the released counts.

eerok · 9th November 2020, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by wareyin

I believe they have been counted, but that number has not been included in Biden's (or Trump's) tally yet. I'm seeing 3,000 to 4,000 but they are not in the released counts.

My info is from a few days ago, so indeed it could be stale. They were still shrink-wrapped then.

ETA: I don't think these ballots are very interesting in any case. There's not many, and they're almost certainly valid.

Delvo · 9th November 2020, 06:53 PM

I'm not convinced Trump is seriously still trying to "win". It looks like what he'd be doing if it were another of his scams: pretend to need to do a bunch of lawsuits, raise money to pay for them because he's not actually the mountain of money he's supposed to be, keep the money. The main reason to doubt this is the reports that people in the White House have been describing him as reacting like his denial is real and they can't get him to acknowledge reality. I suppose it could be both: he thinks he has a real case and he (or someone else working for him) is just taking advantage of the situation anyway.

phiwum · 9th November 2020, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by varwoche

All readers have to go by are the words you write.

Do you take those things into mind when you proclaim his good intentions? A simple yes/no will suffice.

I don't agree with everything Emily's Cat writes, but I have never presumed she's a Trump supporter.

Indeed, nothing that she said in the post you replied to constituted support of Trump. She said that Trump doesn't aim to be a dictator. That's hardly praise, regardless of whether you agree with her or not. (I tend to think that Trump would be thrilled to have the dictatorial powers he surely deserves, as the most successful leader the world has ever known.)

eerok · 9th November 2020, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Delvo

I'm not convinced Trump is seriously still trying to "win". It looks like what he'd be doing if it were another of his scams: pretend to need to do a bunch of lawsuits, raise money to pay for them because he's not actually the mountain of money he's supposed to be, keep the money. The main reason to doubt this is the reports that people in the White House have been describing him as reacting like his denial is real and they can't get him to acknowledge reality. I suppose it could be both: he thinks he has a real case and he (or someone else working for him) is just taking advantage of the situation anyway.

There's little doubt that he's a narcissist and not very tightly pegged to reality. If he were smart or even shrewd in the ordinary way, he wouldn't be Trump. I think he simply can't accept that he lost, and since BS is his superpower, that's what he's going with.

acbytesla · 9th November 2020, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by eerok

My understanding is that the ballots in question in PA are separate, shrink-wrapped, and uncounted. I heard this several times from officials through the course of the counting.

I saw a report that the judge allowed them to be counted. But I may be wrong.

eerok · 9th November 2020, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I saw a report that the judge allowed them to be counted. But I may be wrong.

See above. My info is likely stale.

wareyin · 9th November 2020, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by eerok

My info is from a few days ago, so indeed it could be stale. They were still shrink-wrapped then.

ETA: I don't think these ballots are very interesting in any case. There's not many, and they're almost certainly valid.

Agreed that they are almost certainly valid but not enough to affect the outcome.

I haven't seen the "shrink-wrapped" bit, but that's a good and easy way to keep them separate from the rest but together. It's probably true. I was just going by the "uncounted" bit, but I realize now you could have meant "not included in the tally" by that. I've had too many arguments lately with Trump supporters who all think that we have no idea how many there are but they're enough to overturn PA anyway. I start getting kneejerk responses to certain words, sorry!

eerok · 9th November 2020, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by wareyin

Agreed that they are almost certainly valid but not enough to affect the outcome.

I haven't seen the "shrink-wrapped" bit, but that's a good and easy way to keep them separate from the rest but together. It's probably true. I was just going by the "uncounted" bit, but I realize now you could have meant "not included in the tally" by that. I've had too many arguments lately with Trump supporters who all think that we have no idea how many there are but they're enough to overturn PA anyway. I start getting kneejerk responses to certain words, sorry!

The shrink-wrapped thing was repeated by election officials several times on the CNN live coverage at the time, probably before Saturday. That's definitely the smart thing to do, since there'd be no way for those ballots to "sneak into the count" before they were judged okay. I assumed they'd stay wrapped until the question of their validity was settled, but I heard nothing further about them until now.

acbytesla · 9th November 2020, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by eerok

See above. My info is likely stale.

I'm good with that. Trump is down by 45, 000 votes right now and he doesn't want the votes counted? How stupid is that?

BobTheCoward · 9th November 2020, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I'm good with that. Trump is down by 45, 000 votes right now and he doesn't want the votes counted? How stupid is that?

You didn't get the link? Mail in voting is unconstitutional now.

eerok · 9th November 2020, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I'm good with that. Trump is down by 45, 000 votes right now and he doesn't want the votes counted? How stupid is that?

I think at the time the GOP filed their complaints they thought it might make a difference. Or something. Stupidity is also a good theory.

acbytesla · 9th November 2020, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

You didn't get the link? Mail in voting is unconstitutional now.

What are you talking about?

kookbreaker · 9th November 2020, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I think they are. But they must be separated. In other words, the court reserves the right to revoke them and readjust the count. The judge sort of punted.

Some of them were fixed by the voters (by resubmission) but I have no idea how many.

Aridas · 9th November 2020, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank

I understand that mail-in ballots would favor the democrats in any and all states, because of the conversation around it, which party was encouraging it, etc. But why would the advantage be so much larger, massively so, in those swing states vs. other states?

There may be a good explanation, but I haven't seen it so far.

As a PA person and with PA being on top of that list, I'll poke a little at factors in PA.

1. Obvious one first - Trump's denouncing and fear-mongering about mail-in voting, especially in PA, has dramatically more effect on Republican voters (who already have been seeped in frequently unquestioned false voter fraud claims for many years now). As for Democrats, various Democratic Party favoring groups have been pushing absentee voting hard and effectively since the dangers of COVID became more apparent as a good way to help keep everyone much safer. Such was already quite showing its effects during the primaries, let alone later on.

2. Slightly less obvious one - The location of where the people who used the absentee ballots is. Philadelphia, for example, as a general rule, is a very strongly Democratic Party stronghold, and a heck of a lot of the mail-in votes came there. The ratio was a bit lower in more Republican counties and there were far fewer.

To poke at that further, though, Politico has some relevant information.

Quote:

That means that 81 percent of state voters who were sent those ballots have returned them. To break it down, more than 1.6 million of those ballots were from registered Democrats, 586,000 were from Republicans, and 278,000 were from independents or third-party voters.

This isn’t surprising or necessarily revealing: Political insiders have expected for months that Democrats would vote disproportionately by mail, while Republicans would vote disproportionately in person.

One stat that is interesting, though, is that 84 percent of registered Democrats who have been sent mail-in or absentee ballots have returned them, compared with 74 percent of Republicans.

When all is said and done, Kathy Boockvar, Pennsylvania’s Secretary of the Commonwealth, said she expects to receive as many as 2.6 million mail-in and absentee ballots. A Philadelphia election official estimated that 400,000 such votes would come from the city.

It's also safe to say that Trump is much more toxic among the Republicans who were concerned enough about COVID to request absentee ballots in the first place than he is among the general population of Republicans.

3. Both of those are related to the Republican Party having made mail-in voting and COVID into partisan issues and leading the right-wing propaganda machine into spreading disinformation on both. To borrow some stats from Bexar County, TX (which, yes, is not PA, so the numbers here are probably not exactly the same), because there's some indirect relevance - well above 80% of Democrats consider absentee ballots to be safe, easy, accurate, and secure, while only like 20% of Republicans consider absentee ballots to be safe, accurate, or secure... and only about half consider it to be easy. For that matter, less than half of Bexar Republicans think that it has lower health risks than in person voting

.

Skeptic Ginger · 9th November 2020, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Bob001

You probably don't have a box of ballots in your basement. But you could post links to your sources for each of your claims -- if you have them -- so we could assess them for ourselves. For example, claiming "14,000 dead people registered/voted" is dishonest. The fact that a dead person's name hasn't been removed from the rolls doesn't mean anybody else impersonated him to vote. Some voters died after they submitted their legitimate ballots, and those votes were cancelled. Both Snopes and the Detroit papers have responded to this false claim. I suspect most of your claims would also wither under close examination.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/wi...ead-voters-mi/
https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...ts/3391154001/

Not only that, how would anyone know that:

Quote:

Over 14,000 dead people registered / voted

?

That would take some serious data analysis that if anyone had done they'd be plastering their study all over the MSM.

Skeptic Ginger · 9th November 2020, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

Yes, in classic shoot-yourself-in-the-foot Democratic style, they pulled off the greatest mass voter fraud in history but forgot to steal the Senate.

And not a single credible whistle blower among 4 separate states.

Skeptic Ginger · 9th November 2020, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by eerok

Putin said the US election was "sloppy", but that's what happens when people are actually allowed to vote.

He said that part?

Skeptic Ginger · 9th November 2020, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Kevin Sorbo tweeted

@ksorbs
The media is claiming Biden won so that the riots will be MASSIVE when Trump is re-elected

(this tweet has 12.5k likes)

Skeptic Ginger · 9th November 2020, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

James Woods tweeted

@RealJamesWoods
And just like that the rioting and looting has ceased overnight. And now the half of the country that pummeled America like a battered wife is telling her to put on sunglasses, hide her black eye, be a good girl, and “come together as one.” Her answer? “Go **** yourself.”

They are are already softening the battlefield for the miraculous disappearance of COVID. Should be gone by the inauguration.

More

Skeptic Ginger · 9th November 2020, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Trump Tweets

Nevada is turning out to be a cesspool of Fake Votes. @mschlapp & @AdamLaxalt are finding things that, when released, will be absolutely shocking

The threshold identification of Ballots is turning out to be even bigger than originally anticipated. A very large number of Ballots are impacted. Stay tuned!

Georgia will be a big presidential win, as it was the night of the Election!

Pennsylvania prevented us from watching much of the Ballot count. Unthinkable and illegal in this country.

Wisconsin is looking very good. Needs a little time statutorily. Will happen soon! @Reince @SeanDuffyWI

Tweets flagged by Twitter This claim about election fraud is disputed

I wonder if those names are from people who were trolling? Maybe I've been reading too many posts.

Skeptic Ginger · 9th November 2020, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

To be honest, the longer Trump strings along his dip-**** followers with this promise of a legal win, the better.

Eventually these people are going to snap when they finally accept that Trump lost, and the less time they have to do damage, the better. Not that they will stop under a Biden administration, but hopefully there will be a more vigorous FBI response to right wing violence than there is currently.

The message to stay calm and wait for Trump to be vindicated is preferable to the rage that is undoubtedly coming.

Trump's getting more and more convinced he was cheated. People might be stepping away decreasing the crowd by attrition while those core CTers are feeding into Trump's narcissism.

I hope the resulting crowd size is small when Trump has no more legal options.

BobTheCoward · 9th November 2020, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

What are you talking about?

The trump PA lawsuit filed in federal court today argues mail in voting violates equal protection, and the PA election officials should be barred from certifying the election.

Skeptic Ginger · 9th November 2020, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

The BESTEST thing to seal off these last few days is the announcement by Pfizer that a new vaccine is now ready for final approval. Trump will be so GUTTED that Covid19 elimination will all happen under Biden. Is it wicked of me to be giggling at the sight of him bouncing off the walls at the White House right now?

Knowing Trump as we do now, this will feed into his deep state CT: it was all planned, see they waited until after the election to announce this. Big Pharma wants Biden to be POTUS.

DevilsAdvocate · 9th November 2020, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Delvo

I'm not convinced Trump is seriously still trying to "win". It looks like what he'd be doing if it were another of his scams: pretend to need to do a bunch of lawsuits, raise money to pay for them because he's not actually the mountain of money he's supposed to be, keep the money. The main reason to doubt this is the reports that people in the White House have been describing him as reacting like his denial is real and they can't get him to acknowledge reality. I suppose it could be both: he thinks he has a real case and he (or someone else working for him) is just taking advantage of the situation anyway.

Yep. According to Trumps' Officail Election Defense Fund:

Quote:

60% to DJTP for deposit in DJTP’s 2020 General Election Account for the retirement of general election debt (up to a maximum of $2,800/$5,000) or, if such debt has been retired or any portion of the contribution would exceed the limit to the 2020 General Election Account, for deposit in DJTP’s Recount Account (up to a maximum of $2,800/$5,000); 40% to the RNC’s Operating account (up to a maximum of $35,500/$15,000); and any additional funds to the RNC for deposit in the RNC’s Legal Proceedings account or Headquarters account (up to a maximum of $213,000/$90,000).

For any donation, 40% goes to the RNC. The other 60% goes to Trump's campaign debt, and only goes toward paying for a recount if the debt is first paid off.

Trump says he will be holding rallies to gain support for a recount. The only purpose of such rallies would be to get donations. People will donate thinking their money will be spent on a recount, but it will be spent paying the campaign debt so that Trump doesn't have to pay it.

Trump is playing golf because he has no idea what to do other sic some lawyers out to do...something...and drag this out to con his supporters out of more cash.

acbytesla · 9th November 2020, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Not only that, how would anyone know that: ?

That would take some serious data analysis that if anyone had done they'd be plastering their study all over the MSM.

These are just wild accusations. Hearsay on top of hearsay on top of hearsay. It's never multiple individuals saw ballots thrown out or fraudulent ballots being included. No, it's complaints about processes that could have been more efficiently done but which the GOP obstructed.

Their biggest complaints about ballots in Pennsylvania are about provisional votes and votes that were postmarked before the end of voting. This is about their desire to suppress voter participation and not about a dishonest election.

Skeptic Ginger · 9th November 2020, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Dinesh D'Souza tweets

@DineshDSouza
There is a great shift under way. We are, all 70 million of us, and our families, going to make our exit OUT of liberal institutions of indoctrination. This means schools, universities, media, entertainment. This won’t happen overnight but it’s happening already. We’re outta here

Where's he going?

Resume · 9th November 2020, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Where's he going?

Back to prison would be one acceptable venue.

9th November 2020, 05:35 PM	#361
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756	Originally Posted by Paul2 Handpicking the electors, not auditing the election, is perhaps the only way the Leg might insert themselves, but the SCOTUS in the past has ruled that a Leg. can only determine how electors are chosen by passing a law, which means the Governor has to sign it. Also, doing so after an election is over, for that election, is sketchy. This is the only place at which my paranoia comes back, as this SCOTUS is not that SCOTUS of the past. Also, more quick reading. With Clinton it was people wanting Trump electors to defect to Clinton.
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756

9th November 2020, 05:36 PM	#363
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756	Originally Posted by Paul2 selecting electors is different significantly than investigations. The Leg can investigate all they want but it changes nothing about the power and schedule for how an election is audited and certified. Unless they go contrary to past SCOTUS and hand pick the electors. Like you said, not the same supreme court, so who knows.
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756

9th November 2020, 05:50 PM	#365
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 27,929	Pennsylvania 99 % reporting Joe Biden. 49.8% 3,365,798 Donald Trump. 49.1% 3,320,459
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

9th November 2020, 06:07 PM	#367
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 27,929	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward And omits the 100k disputed ballots? What 100K disputed ballots? I've read only about a few thousand that have postmarks on or before election day and received a day or two later.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

9th November 2020, 06:30 PM	#369
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 24,826	<Never mind. Skeptic Tank refuted better than my shot at it.>
	Last edited by SezMe; 9th November 2020 at 07:17 PM.

9th November 2020, 05:36 PM	#362
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 31,341	Trump Tweets @FoxNews, @QuinnipiacPoll, ABC/WaPo, NBC/WSJ were so inaccurate with their polls on me, that it really is tampering with an Election. They were so far off in their polling, and in their attempt to suppress - that they should be called out for Election Interference... ...ABC/WaPo had me down 17 points in Wisconsin, the day before the election, and I WON! In Iowa, the polls had us 4 points down, and I won by 8.2%! Fox News and Quinnipiac were wrong on everything... ...The worst polling ever, and then they’ll be back in four years to do it again. This is much more then voter and campaign finance suppression!

9th November 2020, 05:38 PM	#364
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 31,341	Trump Tweets The @US_FDA and the Democrats didn’t want to have me get a Vaccine WIN, prior to the election, so instead it came out five days later – As I’ve said all along!

9th November 2020, 05:56 PM	#366
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,093	Originally Posted by acbytesla Pennsylvania 99 % reporting Joe Biden. 49.8% 3,365,798 Donald Trump. 49.1% 3,320,459 And omits the 100k disputed ballots?

9th November 2020, 06:12 PM	#368
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,093	Originally Posted by acbytesla What 100K disputed ballots? I've read only about a few thousand that have postmarks on or before election day and received a day or two later. Sorry. That was an earlier story about naked ballots. These postmarked ballots are not in the total, correct?

9th November 2020, 06:35 PM	#370
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 27,929	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward Sorry. That was an earlier story about naked ballots. These postmarked ballots are not in the total, correct? I think they are. But they must be separated. In other words, the court reserves the right to revoke them and readjust the count. The judge sort of punted.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

9th November 2020, 06:38 PM	#371
slyjoe Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ Posts: 2,536	Originally Posted by SezMe Well, that one is easy: Wisconsin has same day registration so comparing votes to already-registered is invalid. I suspect the rest have a similar, easy to put together explanation. To say your claims are backed by evidence lacks merit. In fact, it was 2018 registrations vs 2020 votes, I believe.
	__________________ "You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade

9th November 2020, 06:44 PM	#372
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 3,465	Originally Posted by acbytesla I think they are. But they must be separated. In other words, the court reserves the right to revoke them and readjust the count. The judge sort of punted. My understanding is that the ballots in question in PA are separate, shrink-wrapped, and uncounted. I heard this several times from officials through the course of the counting.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

9th November 2020, 06:48 PM	#373
wareyin Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 8,152	Originally Posted by eerok My understanding is that the ballots in question in PA are separate, shrink-wrapped, and uncounted. I heard this several times from officials through the course of the counting. I believe they have been counted, but that number has not been included in Biden's (or Trump's) tally yet. I'm seeing 3,000 to 4,000 but they are not in the released counts.

9th November 2020, 06:53 PM	#374
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 3,465	Originally Posted by wareyin I believe they have been counted, but that number has not been included in Biden's (or Trump's) tally yet. I'm seeing 3,000 to 4,000 but they are not in the released counts. My info is from a few days ago, so indeed it could be stale. They were still shrink-wrapped then. ETA: I don't think these ballots are very interesting in any case. There's not many, and they're almost certainly valid.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde Last edited by eerok; 9th November 2020 at 06:58 PM.

9th November 2020, 06:53 PM	#375
Delvo Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Tonawanda, NY Posts: 9,201	I'm not convinced Trump is seriously still trying to "win". It looks like what he'd be doing if it were another of his scams: pretend to need to do a bunch of lawsuits, raise money to pay for them because he's not actually the mountain of money he's supposed to be, keep the money. The main reason to doubt this is the reports that people in the White House have been describing him as reacting like his denial is real and they can't get him to acknowledge reality. I suppose it could be both: he thinks he has a real case and he (or someone else working for him) is just taking advantage of the situation anyway.

9th November 2020, 06:59 PM	#376
phiwum Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 12,714	Originally Posted by varwoche All readers have to go by are the words you write. Do you take those things into mind when you proclaim his good intentions? A simple yes/no will suffice. I don't agree with everything Emily's Cat writes, but I have never presumed she's a Trump supporter. Indeed, nothing that she said in the post you replied to constituted support of Trump. She said that Trump doesn't aim to be a dictator. That's hardly praise, regardless of whether you agree with her or not. (I tend to think that Trump would be thrilled to have the dictatorial powers he surely deserves, as the most successful leader the world has ever known.)

9th November 2020, 07:04 PM	#377
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 3,465	Originally Posted by Delvo I'm not convinced Trump is seriously still trying to "win". It looks like what he'd be doing if it were another of his scams: pretend to need to do a bunch of lawsuits, raise money to pay for them because he's not actually the mountain of money he's supposed to be, keep the money. The main reason to doubt this is the reports that people in the White House have been describing him as reacting like his denial is real and they can't get him to acknowledge reality. I suppose it could be both: he thinks he has a real case and he (or someone else working for him) is just taking advantage of the situation anyway. There's little doubt that he's a narcissist and not very tightly pegged to reality. If he were smart or even shrewd in the ordinary way, he wouldn't be Trump. I think he simply can't accept that he lost, and since BS is his superpower, that's what he's going with.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

9th November 2020, 07:04 PM	#378
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 27,929	Originally Posted by eerok My understanding is that the ballots in question in PA are separate, shrink-wrapped, and uncounted. I heard this several times from officials through the course of the counting. I saw a report that the judge allowed them to be counted. But I may be wrong.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

9th November 2020, 07:06 PM	#379
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 3,465	Originally Posted by acbytesla I saw a report that the judge allowed them to be counted. But I may be wrong. See above. My info is likely stale.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

9th November 2020, 07:06 PM	#380
wareyin Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 8,152	Originally Posted by eerok My info is from a few days ago, so indeed it could be stale. They were still shrink-wrapped then. ETA: I don't think these ballots are very interesting in any case. There's not many, and they're almost certainly valid. Agreed that they are almost certainly valid but not enough to affect the outcome. I haven't seen the "shrink-wrapped" bit, but that's a good and easy way to keep them separate from the rest but together. It's probably true. I was just going by the "uncounted" bit, but I realize now you could have meant "not included in the tally" by that. I've had too many arguments lately with Trump supporters who all think that we have no idea how many there are but they're enough to overturn PA anyway. I start getting kneejerk responses to certain words, sorry!

9th November 2020, 07:12 PM	#381
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 3,465	Originally Posted by wareyin Agreed that they are almost certainly valid but not enough to affect the outcome. I haven't seen the "shrink-wrapped" bit, but that's a good and easy way to keep them separate from the rest but together. It's probably true. I was just going by the "uncounted" bit, but I realize now you could have meant "not included in the tally" by that. I've had too many arguments lately with Trump supporters who all think that we have no idea how many there are but they're enough to overturn PA anyway. I start getting kneejerk responses to certain words, sorry! The shrink-wrapped thing was repeated by election officials several times on the CNN live coverage at the time, probably before Saturday. That's definitely the smart thing to do, since there'd be no way for those ballots to "sneak into the count" before they were judged okay. I assumed they'd stay wrapped until the question of their validity was settled, but I heard nothing further about them until now.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

9th November 2020, 07:13 PM	#382
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 27,929	Originally Posted by eerok See above. My info is likely stale. I'm good with that. Trump is down by 45, 000 votes right now and he doesn't want the votes counted? How stupid is that?
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

9th November 2020, 07:15 PM	#383
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,093	Originally Posted by acbytesla I'm good with that. Trump is down by 45, 000 votes right now and he doesn't want the votes counted? How stupid is that? You didn't get the link? Mail in voting is unconstitutional now.

9th November 2020, 07:17 PM	#384
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 3,465	Originally Posted by acbytesla I'm good with that. Trump is down by 45, 000 votes right now and he doesn't want the votes counted? How stupid is that? I think at the time the GOP filed their complaints they thought it might make a difference. Or something. Stupidity is also a good theory.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

9th November 2020, 07:29 PM	#385
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 27,929	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward You didn't get the link? Mail in voting is unconstitutional now. What are you talking about?
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

9th November 2020, 07:33 PM	#386
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,063	Originally Posted by acbytesla I think they are. But they must be separated. In other words, the court reserves the right to revoke them and readjust the count. The judge sort of punted. Some of them were fixed by the voters (by resubmission) but I have no idea how many.
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9th November 2020, 07:59 PM	#387
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,321	Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank I understand that mail-in ballots would favor the democrats in any and all states, because of the conversation around it, which party was encouraging it, etc. But why would the advantage be so much larger, massively so, in those swing states vs. other states? There may be a good explanation, but I haven't seen it so far. As a PA person and with PA being on top of that list, I'll poke a little at factors in PA. 1. Obvious one first - Trump's denouncing and fear-mongering about mail-in voting, especially in PA, has dramatically more effect on Republican voters (who already have been seeped in frequently unquestioned false voter fraud claims for many years now). As for Democrats, various Democratic Party favoring groups have been pushing absentee voting hard and effectively since the dangers of COVID became more apparent as a good way to help keep everyone much safer. Such was already quite showing its effects during the primaries, let alone later on. 2. Slightly less obvious one - The location of where the people who used the absentee ballots is. Philadelphia, for example, as a general rule, is a very strongly Democratic Party stronghold, and a heck of a lot of the mail-in votes came there. The ratio was a bit lower in more Republican counties and there were far fewer. To poke at that further, though, Politico has some relevant information. Quote: That means that 81 percent of state voters who were sent those ballots have returned them. To break it down, more than 1.6 million of those ballots were from registered Democrats, 586,000 were from Republicans, and 278,000 were from independents or third-party voters. This isn’t surprising or necessarily revealing: Political insiders have expected for months that Democrats would vote disproportionately by mail, while Republicans would vote disproportionately in person. One stat that is interesting, though, is that 84 percent of registered Democrats who have been sent mail-in or absentee ballots have returned them, compared with 74 percent of Republicans. When all is said and done, Kathy Boockvar, Pennsylvania’s Secretary of the Commonwealth, said she expects to receive as many as 2.6 million mail-in and absentee ballots. A Philadelphia election official estimated that 400,000 such votes would come from the city. It's also safe to say that Trump is much more toxic among the Republicans who were concerned enough about COVID to request absentee ballots in the first place than he is among the general population of Republicans. 3. Both of those are related to the Republican Party having made mail-in voting and COVID into partisan issues and leading the right-wing propaganda machine into spreading disinformation on both. To borrow some stats from Bexar County, TX (which, yes, is not PA, so the numbers here are probably not exactly the same), because there's some indirect relevance - well above 80% of Democrats consider absentee ballots to be safe, easy, accurate, and secure, while only like 20% of Republicans consider absentee ballots to be safe, accurate, or secure... and only about half consider it to be easy. For that matter, less than half of Bexar Republicans think that it has lower health risks than in person voting .
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9th November 2020, 08:26 PM	#388
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,772	Originally Posted by Bob001 You probably don't have a box of ballots in your basement. But you could post links to your sources for each of your claims -- if you have them -- so we could assess them for ourselves. For example, claiming "14,000 dead people registered/voted" is dishonest. The fact that a dead person's name hasn't been removed from the rolls doesn't mean anybody else impersonated him to vote. Some voters died after they submitted their legitimate ballots, and those votes were cancelled. Both Snopes and the Detroit papers have responded to this false claim. I suspect most of your claims would also wither under close examination. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/wi...ead-voters-mi/ https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...ts/3391154001/ Not only that, how would anyone know that: Quote: Over 14,000 dead people registered / voted ? That would take some serious data analysis that if anyone had done they'd be plastering their study all over the MSM.
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9th November 2020, 08:29 PM	#389
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,772	Originally Posted by johnny karate Yes, in classic shoot-yourself-in-the-foot Democratic style, they pulled off the greatest mass voter fraud in history but forgot to steal the Senate. And not a single credible whistle blower among 4 separate states.
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9th November 2020, 08:34 PM	#390
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,772	Originally Posted by eerok Putin said the US election was "sloppy", but that's what happens when people are actually allowed to vote. He said that part?
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9th November 2020, 08:38 PM	#391
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,772	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Kevin Sorbo tweeted @ksorbs The media is claiming Biden won so that the riots will be MASSIVE when Trump is re-elected (this tweet has 12.5k likes)
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9th November 2020, 08:39 PM	#392
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,772	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop James Woods tweeted @RealJamesWoods And just like that the rioting and looting has ceased overnight. And now the half of the country that pummeled America like a battered wife is telling her to put on sunglasses, hide her black eye, be a good girl, and “come together as one.” Her answer? “Go **** yourself.” They are are already softening the battlefield for the miraculous disappearance of COVID. Should be gone by the inauguration. More
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9th November 2020, 08:50 PM	#393
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,772	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Trump Tweets Nevada is turning out to be a cesspool of Fake Votes. @mschlapp & @AdamLaxalt are finding things that, when released, will be absolutely shocking The threshold identification of Ballots is turning out to be even bigger than originally anticipated. A very large number of Ballots are impacted. Stay tuned! Georgia will be a big presidential win, as it was the night of the Election! Pennsylvania prevented us from watching much of the Ballot count. Unthinkable and illegal in this country. Wisconsin is looking very good. Needs a little time statutorily. Will happen soon! @Reince @SeanDuffyWI Tweets flagged by Twitter This claim about election fraud is disputed I wonder if those names are from people who were trolling? Maybe I've been reading too many posts.
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9th November 2020, 08:56 PM	#394
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,772	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey To be honest, the longer Trump strings along his dip-**** followers with this promise of a legal win, the better. Eventually these people are going to snap when they finally accept that Trump lost, and the less time they have to do damage, the better. Not that they will stop under a Biden administration, but hopefully there will be a more vigorous FBI response to right wing violence than there is currently. The message to stay calm and wait for Trump to be vindicated is preferable to the rage that is undoubtedly coming. Trump's getting more and more convinced he was cheated. People might be stepping away decreasing the crowd by attrition while those core CTers are feeding into Trump's narcissism. I hope the resulting crowd size is small when Trump has no more legal options.
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9th November 2020, 08:58 PM	#395
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,093	Originally Posted by acbytesla What are you talking about? The trump PA lawsuit filed in federal court today argues mail in voting violates equal protection, and the PA election officials should be barred from certifying the election.