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Old 31st July 2022, 10:30 AM   #3081
jimbob
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
Some? She has nothing but...
True, however this might actually be sufficiently stupid and bad taste for even Tory MPs, even those supporting Truss to get annoyed with her.
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Old 31st July 2022, 10:55 AM   #3082
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
True, however this might actually be sufficiently stupid and bad taste for even Tory MPs, even those supporting Truss to get annoyed with her.
Tory MPs didn't think Johnson having parties when people couldn't attend the death of their relatives was bad taste - I don't think there is a cat-in-hell's chance that this will be too far for them.
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Old 31st July 2022, 11:53 AM   #3083
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Tory MPs didn't think Johnson having parties when people couldn't attend the death of their relatives was bad taste - I don't think there is a cat-in-hell's chance that this will be too far for them.
The thing is that it could be thought of as inciting people to attack, or at least harass those who resigned from Johnson's government, which were all Tory MPs.
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Old 31st July 2022, 12:08 PM   #3084
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Some Tory MPs distance themselves from MadNads "knife" tweet
Quote:
The business minister Greg Hands said the picture was inappropriate, especially given the killing of the Southend West Tory MP Sir David Amess at a constituency surgery in Essex last October.

“I’m sure Liz Truss would disown this kind of behaviour. I think this is appalling,” Hands told Sky News. “Look, it’s not even a year since the stabbing of Sir David Amess at his Southend constituency surgery, so I think this is very, very bad taste, dangerous even … I do find it distasteful.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ed-by-tory-mps
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Old 31st July 2022, 03:59 PM   #3085
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
And Nadine Dorries offers up some breath-taking stupidity, even by her standards:

Nadine Dorries criticised for sharing edited image of Sunak wielding knife

Of course some of Truss' supporters have condemned it while Truss herself remains silent on the matter.
Combining The Ides of March with January 6th...
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Old 31st July 2022, 04:18 PM   #3086
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Combining The Ides of March with January 6th...
I think it was a Twitter conversation (but it might even be here) where someone said that you get Dorries if you order Marjorie Taylor Greene from Wish.
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Old 1st August 2022, 12:56 AM   #3087
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Truss says students who get top grades should automatically be invited to apply to Oxford or Cambridge.

She also wants to expand existing academy schools that are high performing, and replace 'failing' establishments with 'free schools'. She also says she would end a ban on new grammar schools.
How will that work when Oxbridge is already massively over-subscribed? So it is back to 'talent-spotting' where pushy parents again push their darling Tristram and Cressida to the forefront of the headmaster's attention.

As for 'free schools' - been there done that. These are schools that have their own selection criteria. For example, anyone could get into the Jewish Free School but the catch was, you had to show basic proficiency in Hebrew to get in.
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Old 1st August 2022, 12:58 AM   #3088
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
And Nadine Dorries offers up some breath-taking stupidity, even by her standards:

Nadine Dorries criticised for sharing edited image of Sunak wielding knife

Of course some of Truss' supporters have condemned it while Truss herself remains silent on the matter.
Looks like the bunny boiler is down for a peerage.
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Old 1st August 2022, 12:59 AM   #3089
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
The thing is that it could be thought of as inciting people to attack, or at least harass those who resigned from Johnson's government, which were all Tory MPs.
In a way, it is a shame Rish! isn't going to win.
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Old 1st August 2022, 03:04 AM   #3090
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
Is there a law against including rental payments in mortgage calculations? What is the penalty?
I can't possibly see a downside in rental payments being included in mortgage calculations.

What the UK housing market needs is more financially marginal mortgage lending decisions, especially as interest rates are on the way up. We always forget the last housing "crash".
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Old 1st August 2022, 03:56 AM   #3091
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Mortgage borrowing rules have been eased after the Bank of England scrapped an affordability test.

The "stress test" forced lenders to calculate whether potential borrowers would be able to cope if interest rates climbed by up to 3%.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62353114
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Old 1st August 2022, 03:56 AM   #3092
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I can't possibly see a downside in rental payments being included in mortgage calculations.

What the UK housing market needs is more financially marginal mortgage lending decisions, especially as interest rates are on the way up. We always forget the last housing "crash".
Bring back endowment mortgages all is forgiven!!
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Old 1st August 2022, 04:00 AM   #3093
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Mortgage borrowing rules have been eased after the Bank of England scrapped an affordability test.

The "stress test" forced lenders to calculate whether potential borrowers would be able to cope if interest rates climbed by up to 3%.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62353114
Should be scrapped - it should now be 10% or perhaps 15%!
"Lenders had to not only work out if borrowers could afford a mortgage at the rate they were being offered, but also work out how they would be affected if interest rates soared by 3%
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Old 1st August 2022, 04:22 AM   #3094
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Mortgage borrowing rules have been eased after the Bank of England scrapped an affordability test.

The "stress test" forced lenders to calculate whether potential borrowers would be able to cope if interest rates climbed by up to 3%.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62353114
At the moment, almost all people have equity in their houses so if they do end up defaulting after interest rates rise, in the short term the banks are covered because for a while there won't be so many issues of negative equity.

As soon as the position is reversed and the banks are out of pocket, they'll come crawling to the government for a bailout.
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Old 1st August 2022, 02:03 PM   #3095
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Truss says she'll get 2,400 pieces of EU-derived regulation off statute books and replaced by domestic regulation by the end of 2023.

Get ready for chaos
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Old 1st August 2022, 02:12 PM   #3096
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From a YouTuber discussing what Sunak didn't leave the Cabinet in December, but stayed on and got also hammered for betraying Johnson.

"The bottom line is that he's been outplayed by Liz Truss"

"How bad do you have to be?"
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Old 1st August 2022, 03:37 PM   #3097
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
And Keir Starmer forced once again to state the obvious for the hard of understanding in the Labour party:

Keir Starmer: Labour must move away from being a party of protest

Every 10 years or so those determined to maintain ideological purity that its worthless without actual power
And ideological purity is a bad idea anyway. Manes you throw out of alot of promising ideas because they are not "ure" enough.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 01:12 AM   #3098
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Truss says of Sturgeon
"I think the best thing to do with Nicola Sturgeon is ignore her."
"She's an attention seeker, that's what she is."

So much for devolved power.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 01:15 AM   #3099
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Truss wants to "shake up" Civil Service and public sector pay.

She wants an end to national pay deals.
Pay should be linked to living standards where you work, so jobs could have different salaries depending on location saving up to 8.8bn a year.

Also introducing regional pay would stop the public sector crowding out the private sector in places where private businesses can't compete with public sector pay.

So much for leveling up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62390009

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 2nd August 2022 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 01:20 AM   #3100
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Truss says she'll get 2,400 pieces of EU-derived regulation off statute books and replaced by domestic regulation by the end of 2023.

Get ready for chaos
CTRL-R EU with UK
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Old 2nd August 2022, 01:35 AM   #3101
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Truss wants to "shake up" Civil Service and public sector pay.

She wants an end to national pay deals.
Pay should be linked to living standards where you work, so jobs could have different salaries depending on location saving up to 8.8bn a year.

Also introducing regional pay would stop the public sector crowding out the private sector in places where private businesses can't compete with public sector pay.

So much for leveling up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62390009
Because of course, the best way to reduce equality gaps across the spectrum is to make sure that people living in areas of deprivation don't have any resources to to assist them. It's just obvious.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 01:46 AM   #3102
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Truss says of Sturgeon
"I think the best thing to do with Nicola Sturgeon is ignore her."
"She's an attention seeker, that's what she is."

So much for devolved power.
To be fair though Truss is campaigning to Tory party members, and how many of the 160,000 are Scots, let alone supporters of Scottish independence?
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Old 2nd August 2022, 01:55 AM   #3103
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Because of course, the best way to reduce equality gaps across the spectrum is to make sure that people living in areas of deprivation don't have any resources to to assist them. It's just obvious.
And apart from cost of housing there is no longer that much variation in cost of living across the country. I can't drive up to Wigan to buy my new car 5,000 cheaper than I can in Reading. Electric, gas and water all cost the same, food varies by about 5%. London as ever does distort the picture, costs for goods and services are usually in the range of 5-7% higher. But that has always been covered by most companies and public services as an additional amount - "London Weighting" - not by reducing everyone else's wages.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 02:01 AM   #3104
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Truss wants to "shake up" Civil Service and public sector pay.

She wants an end to national pay deals.
Pay should be linked to living standards where you work, so jobs could have different salaries depending on location saving up to 8.8bn a year.

Also introducing regional pay would stop the public sector crowding out the private sector in places where private businesses can't compete with public sector pay.

So much for leveling up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62390009
Civil Servants already get paid less outside of London - those in London get 'London weighting'. NB it probably needs increasing to be fair as it's very difficult to recruit at lower grades in London....that said, remote working was making that easier...and starting to make a nonsense of the weighting anyway...until Rees-Mogg started his non-sensical 'Get back into the office' schtick that went against years of Govt policy to get people working remotely so that buildings could be sold off.

Even now, I have former colleagues who have picked up roles in departments across the country from them so do they get paid by where the department is or where their home is? Regardless of Rees-Moggs attempts remote working is here to stay and all he's done is slow it slightly and it makes a nonsense of 'regional pay'.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 02:15 AM   #3105
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Truss says of Sturgeon
"I think the best thing to do with Nicola Sturgeon is ignore her."
"She's an attention seeker, that's what she is."

So much for devolved power.
Huh, I must have missed when Sturgeon was riding around in a tank in Thatcher cosplay for the cameras. Projection's reached a whole new level with these clowns.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 03:59 AM   #3106
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It's almost as if Truss is a bit dim...
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Old 2nd August 2022, 04:09 AM   #3107
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Because of course, the best way to reduce equality gaps across the spectrum is to make sure that people living in areas of deprivation don't have any resources to to assist them. It's just obvious.
Can't blame the Tories, I mean they have been quite clear and told the poor that they need to be rich, hardly the Tories fault if the poor keep insisting on being poor..
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Old 2nd August 2022, 04:10 AM   #3108
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Maybe pensioners should get a lower pension if they live in a low cost area.

Maybe a Tory MP should get less if they represent a "Red Wall" constituency
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Old 2nd August 2022, 04:26 AM   #3109
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Having the National Insurance guys up in Newcastle, National Savings in Glasgow and DVLA in Swansea has helped bring jobs to those regions, so the idea does have some merit. The Civil Service is top heavy with managers (the ubiquitous class system again, with everybody ever conscious of their grade). Moving more departments away from London is not a bad idea IMV.

Throwing out EU-based laws is really stupid IMV as the laws were perfectly sound and voted through democratically by, er....the government.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 04:37 AM   #3110
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And she's done a U-turn on that regional pay thing...

But is still going to abandon taxes on junk food...
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Old 2nd August 2022, 04:43 AM   #3111
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I accept that our next PM will be a Tory, just like when it has happened in the past. However why the hell are they talking about changes to policies - they were elected on a manifesto, that hasn't changed because they've changed leaders.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 04:52 AM   #3112
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^They are also policies which they both supported in Cabinet, especially Truss who has spent more time in Cabinet than anyone else since 2010.

And look at all those bad things the gubbmint did, which she didn't know about...

Dim or liar? Or dim liar?
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Old 2nd August 2022, 05:33 AM   #3113
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
^They are also policies which they both supported in Cabinet, especially Truss who has spent more time in Cabinet than anyone else since 2010.

And look at all those bad things the gubbmint did, which she didn't know about...

Dim or liar? Or dim liar?
Well, there is always the alternative of Rish! Sunak as shiny and slithery as an oil slick. At Leeds he tried to ingratiate himself with a joke about having a sun tan and then in Exeter about how he was child-sized. Nobody laughed but that didn't stop his cheery chappy ambience. When he heard the words 'Corporation Tax' right at the end, trying to wring out a few minutes longer than the Truss Bot, he was bouncing with unsuppressed joy. 'Thank you for asking me that question! I am so glad you asked me about Corporation Tax...!'

Followed long scripted spiel, completely ignoring that the guy asking the question had gone into along bitter rant about CT ruining his business and was not being matey.

Exit Sunak trying to shake hands with a member of the audience taken by surprise by this.


Sunak or Truss? Hobson's Choice.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 06:29 AM   #3114
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
And she's done a U-turn on that regional pay thing...
..
Who could have predicted that a policy to reduce the wages of people who live

a) in rural as opposed to urban areas and
b) in 'red wall' areas where traditional industries collapsed leaving massive unemployment addressed by governments at the time with relocated civil service jobs

Would be opposed by

a) Tory MPs who traditionally serve rural constituencies and
b) First time Tory MPs who were elected in 'red wall' constituencies.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 06:38 AM   #3115
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Yep, Truss walking back the regional pay thing, claiming she's been 'misrepresented', when all people are doing is quoting her own press release.

Yesterday: "By introducing regional boards, civil servant pay can be adjusted in line with the actual areas where civil servants work, saving billions"

Today: "Current levels of public sector pay will absolutely be maintained. Anything to suggest otherwise is simply wrong."

Whiplash levels of U-turn there.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 08:12 AM   #3116
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From Ian Dunt on Twitter
Quote:
Wait so the Continuity Johnson candidate is a liar, you say? That's ******* crazy man. I'd never have guessed.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 08:53 AM   #3117
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The retired NHS payroll officer across the room from me took one look at the proposal Truss now tells us she didn't actually make (except she did) about regional pay in the public sector and began muttering darkly about has she costed it, does she know how many IT systems will need to be altered, does she not know how much simpler, and so cheaper, it is when more people are on the same T&Cs and pay scales, has she any ******* clue about how public sector admin actually works, how do ******** like that get to be in charge of anything when they know nothing and on and on...Not to mention which payroll officers she thinks will work on this after their own pay has been cut?

I couldn't make all of it out, but I was left with a distinct impression of Carrot Flower Queen, whose department payed NHS trusts all over the country, not just our local ones, was distinctly unimpressed with Truss' lack of thinking...
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Old 2nd August 2022, 10:28 AM   #3118
Darat
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It's part of a peculiarity of Tory "thinking" like they'll talk about getting the welfare bill down, whilst forgetting state pensioners are welfare recipients. This was the same type of thinking those terrible Yes Minister types, forgetting that public workers include, the police, the army, nurses and so on.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 10:30 AM   #3119
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Problem for them is what I commented on a decade ago, there isn't any fat to get rid of, we've been cutting out muscles to make "efficency " savings for the last 12 years , indeed I've said before we've been cutting bones out.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 10:40 AM   #3120
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Problem for them is what I commented on a decade ago, there isn't any fat to get rid of, we've been cutting out muscles to make "efficency " savings for the last 12 years , indeed I've said before we've been cutting bones out.
It's longer than that: NHS trusts have been making "efficiency" savings and returns on capital since trusts were imposed by Thatcher.

I never worked in a service from 1984 to when I retired in 2013 which had the full complement of staff as defined by national and local standards (those standards were never good enough anyway, but that is another story). The NHS has never in my experience had an adequate, let alone a decent, number of clinical staff.


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