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Tags putin , russia , Russia-Ukraine war , ukraine , Zelensky

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Old 3rd August 2022, 03:20 PM   #2801
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Originally Posted by ginjawarrior View Post
Talking of trains carrying ammo blowing up

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/com...ult_of_himars/

That's a big one
Choo choo go boom boom.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 03:54 PM   #2802
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Also the Russians seem to rely a lot on trains to move ordnance and UAF are doing a lot of damage to the rail network as part of the "corrosion" strategy. As a US General said some years back "amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics".
In the case of the US, it is because of the Spanish American war, which was one hell of a SNAFU. It was the reason the Army War college was founded. Fortunately, the Spanish were in worse shape than the US.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 06:26 PM   #2803
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I see the US Senate voted 95 to 1 to admit Sweden and Finland to NATO.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 06:52 PM   #2804
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Originally Posted by ginjawarrior View Post
Talking of trains carrying ammo blowing up

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/com...ult_of_himars/

That's a big one
Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Choo choo go boom boom.
Nice.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 11:32 PM   #2805
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Originally Posted by ginjawarrior View Post
Talking of trains carrying ammo blowing up

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/com...ult_of_himars/

That's a big one
One of the comments on that:

Quote:
And curious that when Russian hit a school / hospital / mall because "tHeY StOcK WeApOn ThErE" there is no explosion except the only cruise missile
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Old 4th August 2022, 03:00 AM   #2806
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Training 10K troops a month sounds good if a month is enough.

Canada to join British-led mission to train Ukrainian recruits (cbc.ca)
Quote:
The plan amounts to the restart of Operation Unifer, the long-standing training mission which saw —until its suspension last winter — more than 35,000 Ukrainian soldiers given advanced combat instruction by Canadian soldiers.

That mission, conducted on Ukrainian soil, was halted and the troops pulled out of the eastern European country in mid-February on the eve of the full-scale Russian invasion.

It involved about 200 soldiers and included a contingent. Two of the three sources said the latest initiative with the British will "involve roughly the same number."
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Old 4th August 2022, 03:35 AM   #2807
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I think this belongs in this thread (haven't seen it anywhere else - may have missed it, I suppose).


Useful idiot Corbyn mouths off
.
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Old 4th August 2022, 03:43 AM   #2808
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Originally Posted by SteveAitch View Post
I think this belongs in this thread (haven't seen it anywhere else - may have missed it, I suppose).


Useful idiot Corbyn mouths off
.

"'Pouring arms in isn’t going to bring about a solution, it’s only going to prolong and exaggerate this war,' Corbyn said. 'We might be in for years and years of a war in Ukraine.'"


Begging the question of whether a Russian total or partial victory is preferable to continued war.
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Old 4th August 2022, 03:46 AM   #2809
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Originally Posted by SteveAitch View Post
I think this belongs in this thread (haven't seen it anywhere else - may have missed it, I suppose).


Useful idiot Corbyn mouths off
.
I cannot begin to estimate how many members Corbyn drove away from the Labour Party.

He has never left the 1960's sixth-form common room debating society. His "solutions" don't seem at all practical and amount to everyone should be nice.

Of course the source is a pro-Russian Lebanese media outlet so they may have placed a particular spin on what he said but then again, it's hardly out of character.
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Old 4th August 2022, 03:49 AM   #2810
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Originally Posted by SteveAitch View Post
I think this belongs in this thread (haven't seen it anywhere else - may have missed it, I suppose).


Useful idiot Corbyn mouths off
.
I get the impression his hatred of the "West"/USA/Western democracy for its defeat of the communist/socialist model behind the Iron Curtain colours his every thought. Any enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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Old 4th August 2022, 04:04 AM   #2811
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I cannot begin to estimate how many members Corbyn drove away from the Labour Party.

He has never left the 1960's sixth-form common room debating society. His "solutions" don't seem at all practical and amount to everyone should be nice.

Of course the source is a pro-Russian Lebanese media outlet so they may have placed a particular spin on what he said but then again, it's hardly out of character.
pro Russian Lebanese? Is Lebanon particularly pro Russian or is it just this outlet? I hadn't heard if they were an ally

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Old 4th August 2022, 04:06 AM   #2812
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I cannot begin to estimate how many members Corbyn drove away from the Labour Party.

In the article, he is quoted as claiming that there was a "surge in membership" while he was leader. That strikes me as unlikely, though, and I wonder whether he is misusing statistics in making this claim.
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Old 4th August 2022, 04:06 AM   #2813
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
"


Begging the question of whether a Russian total or partial victory is preferable to continued war.
Could be
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Old 4th August 2022, 04:10 AM   #2814
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Could be
Under what conditions do you think that might be the case?
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Old 4th August 2022, 04:15 AM   #2815
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
pro Russian Lebanese? Is Lebanon particularly pro Russian or is it just this outlet? I hadn't heard if they were an ally
It's a consequence of the Civil War.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezb...cal_activities

Hezbollah has a lot of influence in parts of Lebanon.
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Old 4th August 2022, 04:17 AM   #2816
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
In the article, he is quoted as claiming that there was a "surge in membership" while he was leader. That strikes me as unlikely, though, and I wonder whether he is misusing statistics in making this claim.
There was, as he reduced the membership fee to £3
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Old 4th August 2022, 04:48 AM   #2817
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
Under what conditions do you think that might be the case?
Ones where we are wrong about conditions in Ukraine and relative costs of future lives lost versus stability now.

It seems your question answers itself... conditions favorable to peace are the conditions where that might be the case.

ETA: The fact I'm on the side that it is better Ukraine continues fighting is not a good sign for you.

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Old 4th August 2022, 04:48 AM   #2818
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
It's a consequence of the Civil War.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezb...cal_activities

Hezbollah has a lot of influence in parts of Lebanon.
Thank you
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Old 4th August 2022, 06:24 AM   #2819
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Ones where we are wrong about conditions in Ukraine and relative costs of future lives lost versus stability now.
we would have to be very wrong about conditions in Ukraine to consider a victory, even partial, for Russia to be a guarantee of any sort of stability in the future.
Quote:
It seems your question answers itself... conditions favorable to peace are the conditions where that might be the case.
Thank you for your contribution Captain Obvious
Quote:

ETA: The fact I'm on the side that it is better Ukraine continues fighting is not a good sign for you.
Why not?
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Old 4th August 2022, 06:35 AM   #2820
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Originally Posted by SteveAitch View Post
I think this belongs in this thread (haven't seen it anywhere else - may have missed it, I suppose).


Useful idiot Corbyn mouths off
.
Sweet Jeebus.

Quote:
“Pouring arms in isn’t going to bring about a solution, it’s only going to prolong and exaggerate this war,” Corbyn said. “We might be in for years and years of a war in Ukraine.”
He might be right, you know. The war can take years, but genocide would be over so much faster.
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Old 4th August 2022, 06:42 AM   #2821
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
we would have to be very wrong about conditions in Ukraine to consider a victory, even partial, for Russia to be a guarantee of any sort of stability in the future.

Thank you for your contribution Captain Obvious
There would be ways to increase stability and bring an end to the conflict. For example, the US could provide Russia with air support and strike at targets deep into Ukrainian territory.
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Old 4th August 2022, 08:07 AM   #2822
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
There would be ways to increase stability and bring an end to the conflict. For example, the US could provide Russia with air support and strike at targets deep into Ukrainian territory.
And that's just being silly.
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Old 4th August 2022, 08:14 AM   #2823
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Old 4th August 2022, 08:22 AM   #2824
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
And that's just being silly.
It would be probably be the fastest resolution to the conflict with the fewest lives lost. Probably far less than the US attacking Russian forces
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Old 4th August 2022, 08:27 AM   #2825
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
Begging the question of whether a Russian total or partial victory is preferable to continued war.
My personal calculus has revolved around the hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians that have been kidnapped and transported into Russia. It hinges on whether the Ukrainians can acquire something of value, and offer it to the Russians in exchange for getting their people back.

For me, those lives are paramount. I'd be willing to consider a substantial trade of territory and other things, to get them back. I would think it a great tragedy if the Ukranians were able to drive the Russians off their Crimean land bridge, but never saw those kidnapped Ukrainians again. I would consider trading the land bridge back to the Russians, in exchange for those lives being returned to Ukraine. I would consider giving up claims to the "separatist" regions, in exchange for those lives.

I'm not saying a Russian total or partial victory on those terms is preferable to continued war. I'm saying that's the central question, for me, about whether Ukraine should keep fighting or seek some sort of compromise that brings peace by giving the Russians something they want.
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Old 4th August 2022, 09:06 AM   #2826
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
My personal calculus has revolved around the hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians that have been kidnapped and transported into Russia. It hinges on whether the Ukrainians can acquire something of value, and offer it to the Russians in exchange for getting their people back.

For me, those lives are paramount. I'd be willing to consider a substantial trade of territory and other things, to get them back. I would think it a great tragedy if the Ukranians were able to drive the Russians off their Crimean land bridge, but never saw those kidnapped Ukrainians again. I would consider trading the land bridge back to the Russians, in exchange for those lives being returned to Ukraine. I would consider giving up claims to the "separatist" regions, in exchange for those lives.

I'm not saying a Russian total or partial victory on those terms is preferable to continued war. I'm saying that's the central question, for me, about whether Ukraine should keep fighting or seek some sort of compromise that brings peace by giving the Russians something they want.
I disagree with rewarding any criminal action committed by Russia. The fight will end when justice is served. Russia needs to be brought before an international court, and held to account for its reprehensible behavior. Reparation must be paid and hostages must be freed. But first Russia must be beaten, which is the job Ukraine and the West face right now.
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Old 4th August 2022, 09:15 AM   #2827
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
There was, as he reduced the membership fee to £3

But then he drove them all away with his kooky ideas?
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Old 4th August 2022, 09:56 AM   #2828
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
But then he drove them all away with his kooky ideas?
When you could sign up for just £3 and get to vote for stuff like the party leadership there were plenty of Labour opponents gleefully saying they were signing up to make sure Magic Grandpa remained leader as there was no chance of Labour winning an election while he was in charge.
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Old 4th August 2022, 10:24 AM   #2829
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
I disagree with rewarding any criminal action committed by Russia. The fight will end when justice is served. Russia needs to be brought before an international court, and held to account for its reprehensible behavior. Reparation must be paid and hostages must be freed. But first Russia must be beaten, which is the job Ukraine and the West face right now.
I'm sorry, but "shoot the hostages to serve a higher principle" just doesn't resonate with me.

And I don't see any way to compel Russia to appear in court, pay reparations, or free hostages, that wouldn't just escalate to nuclear war if the matter were pressed. I think Ukraine's only real shot at getting its people back would be some kind of horse-trading on short-term goals.
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Old 4th August 2022, 10:31 AM   #2830
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
When you could sign up for just £3 and get to vote for stuff like the party leadership there were plenty of Labour opponents gleefully saying they were signing up to make sure Magic Grandpa remained leader as there was no chance of Labour winning an election while he was in charge.
Very funny, but, in his recent interview (https://www.theguardian.com/politics...arming-ukraine), Jeremy Corbyn urged western countries to stop pouring arms into Ukraine, which was (according to him) only going to prolong the war.

Perhaps then he has a better solution for the economic crisis in the UK (which is taking place also in the European Union) than the bellicose Boris Johnson - Liz Truss team:
Quote:
UK will fall into recession this year, warns Bank
The Bank of England raises rates as it warns inflation will rise over 13% and the UK faces a long recession
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62405037).

Obviously, as Putin has pointed out, the various "sanctions" have disastrous consequences for European economies.
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Old 4th August 2022, 10:37 AM   #2831
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Very funny, but, in his recent interview (https://www.theguardian.com/politics...arming-ukraine), Jeremy Corbyn urged western countries to stop pouring arms into Ukraine, which was (according to him) only going to prolong the war.

Perhaps then he has a better solution for the economic crisis in the UK (which is taking place also in the European Union) than the bellicose Boris Johnson - Liz Truss team:

(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62405037).

Obviously, as Putin has pointed out, the various "sanctions" have disastrous consequences for European economies.
The UK economy might shrink by 1% over that period.

The Russian economy is forecast to shrink by more than 15%.

I can see why Putin wants the sanctions to end
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Old 4th August 2022, 10:43 AM   #2832
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The UK economy might shrink by 1% over that period.

The Russian economy is forecast to shrink by more than 15%.

I can see why Putin wants the sanctions to end
Yeah, but you can also see why Putin is still able to build and train indefinite numbers of tanks and troops for the long term, under his current and forecasted economic conditions.
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Old 4th August 2022, 10:48 AM   #2833
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The UK economy might shrink by 1% over that period.
If you have some savings in the bank, they might shrink by much, much more than one percent over one year, because of the high inflation rate.
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Old 4th August 2022, 10:51 AM   #2834
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
If you have some savings in the bank, they might shrink by much, much more than one percent over one year, because of the high inflation rate.
The UK inflation rate is half that of Russia.
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Old 4th August 2022, 10:54 AM   #2835
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
If you have some savings in the bank, they might shrink by much, much more than one percent over one year, because of the high inflation rate.
Not Wensleydale! Grommet, DOOOOO something!
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Old 4th August 2022, 10:55 AM   #2836
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Yeah, but you can also see why Putin is still able to build and train indefinite numbers of tanks and troops for the long term, under his current and forecasted economic conditions.
Yes, because he still has considerable foreign currency inflows and the ability to print money.

Like Nazi Germany, the "wartime" economy bears little resemblance to the "real" one. Meanwhile the non- military service economy grinds to a halt.
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Old 4th August 2022, 11:28 AM   #2837
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Yes, because he still has considerable foreign currency inflows and the ability to print money.

Like Nazi Germany, the "wartime" economy bears little resemblance to the "real" one. Meanwhile the non- military service economy grinds to a halt.
If he has the ability to print money and has considerable foreign currency inflows why aren't his soldiers getting paid?
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Old 4th August 2022, 11:29 AM   #2838
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Yeah, but you can also see why Putin is still able to build and train indefinite numbers of tanks and troops for the long term, under his current and forecasted economic conditions.
Don't they rely on a number of European firms for a lot of parts and machine tools?
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Old 4th August 2022, 11:32 AM   #2839
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Ask The Don. He's the one that believes the Russian economy is strong enough to build and train replacement forces faster than they're getting worn down in Ukraine.
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Old 4th August 2022, 11:45 AM   #2840
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
If he has the ability to print money and has considerable foreign currency inflows why aren't his soldiers getting paid?
Putin might be sending the pay….those along the way may be helping themselves.
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