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9th August 2022, 10:11 AM | #2321 |
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9th August 2022, 10:39 AM | #2322 |
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9th August 2022, 11:42 AM | #2323 |
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9th August 2022, 12:12 PM | #2324 |
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9th August 2022, 02:15 PM | #2325 |
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10th August 2022, 05:26 AM | #2326 |
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There is an obvious disconnect in claiming that one can financially harm a corporation without the workers of that corporation being affected. When your argument that a tactic doesn't do "x" requires ignoring the predictable and proven results of that tactic always doing "x", you have a bad argument.
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12th August 2022, 05:28 AM | #2327 |
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Found this online article discussing the latest act of Neo-Puritan's in Australia:
Quote:
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...2216f7cce81e6a |
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12th August 2022, 09:59 AM | #2328 |
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JK Rowling and Salman Rushdie among 152 public figures to criticise 'cancel culture'
Quote:
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12th August 2022, 10:21 AM | #2329 |
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A take I'm thinking of today: that problem is real. "mob mentality" sometimes significantly harms people unjustly.
Coddling objectionable behavior and statements is a poor solution. |
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12th August 2022, 11:04 AM | #2330 |
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12th August 2022, 01:21 PM | #2331 |
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And yet if every example of public backlash is called "cancel culture!" isn't that coddling exactly what is implied?
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12th August 2022, 01:42 PM | #2332 |
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12th August 2022, 06:16 PM | #2333 |
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12th August 2022, 09:05 PM | #2334 |
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I've thrown out a few descriptions of cancel culture upthread, most notably here and here.
It's not impossible for a boycott to fit those descriptions, but most of the ones I've seen don't. ETA: On rare occasions, people will call for a boycott in order to shame and punish one particular person. It actually happened to an old friend of mine some years ago for being openly atheist, and it happened to Gelato Andy for being openly anti-atheist. |
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12th August 2022, 10:08 PM | #2335 |
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How is a boycott anything but the same thing? Withdrawing support over objecting to the behavior of a business or its owner(s)--going by your dictionary.com definition.
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14th August 2022, 09:14 PM | #2336 |
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Boycotts are a huge gamble (but I get emotional knee-jerks) and they're often a losing one. A lot will boycott, and a lot will buy more in response.
Short term not effective with not much decisive reliable data - without some hindsight of history later down the road? Still maybe. |
15th August 2022, 05:22 AM | #2337 |
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15th August 2022, 06:33 AM | #2338 |
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15th August 2022, 08:49 AM | #2339 |
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"Andy was wrong" and "Andy should die broke" are both perfectly valid expressions of free speech in a society that is supposed to value such a thing.
"Cancel culture" hand-wringers can never seem to thread that needle between articulating the specific problem with "cancel culture" and not openly admitting that they want to police speech. |
15th August 2022, 08:53 AM | #2340 |
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I'm not sure why we need to pigeon-hole this behavior as "social activism", other than to then denigrate it as somehow performative.
There are plenty of business that have policies with which I disagree and therefore do not patronize. I don't consider that "activism" nor do I talk about it at cocktail parties. I consider it simply not giving my money to people I don't like. |
15th August 2022, 10:00 AM | #2341 |
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If Andy being wrong has zero consequences for Andy, how is this not coddling Andy? Add in the obvious consequences of Andy's wrongness that other people have to suffer, and the hand-wringing complaints about Andy ever facing the consequences of his own actions seem to go quite a bit further than simply coddling Andy.
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15th August 2022, 10:06 AM | #2342 |
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15th August 2022, 11:45 AM | #2343 |
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Nah not really, at least it's doing something. And that's fine, and not like I'm out there marching in the streets.
It's just that boycotts don't seem lead to too many real world implications. Micro scale, sure, and enough of them can build into a macro - just not seeing it. But I've been wrong before (once). |
15th August 2022, 12:11 PM | #2344 |
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Okay I'm totally lost.
If I'm a Left Hander should I... what just keep shopping at "Left Hander Haters Emporium" because "LOL Boycotts don't work?" I already know I'll get a lot of "Nobody's saying that" but so at a loss as to what people think SHOULD happen. Do I have some sort of moral obligation to engage products and services from people who hate me for what... some vague, glib truism about nothing? |
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15th August 2022, 03:13 PM | #2345 |
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15th August 2022, 03:44 PM | #2346 |
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Yeah...sure. If you want to equate current day boycotting to Rosa Parks, go for it. Shutting down your neighborhood Chick-fil-A is close right?
Hey is this kind of reverse Godwin? |
15th August 2022, 03:58 PM | #2347 |
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I dunno man, seems like there might be some non-zero consequences short of putting him out of work and health insurance.
Out of curiosity, what level of punishment seems appropriate to you, given Andy's (alleged) transgression? Sent from my Canis Kamacho using Tapatalk |
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15th August 2022, 04:01 PM | #2348 |
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This article is a little misleading. Nearly every Bakers Delight outlet is franchised, more often than not run by a baker. Yes there is a “positive duty” on every employer in Victoria to prevent discrimination, but most small employers (and I have dealt with thousands of them including a lot of Bakers Delight shops) are not aware of this.
It is good that Bakers Delight head office has acted on this. Most front of house staff are female and mostly very young. I do not see this as neo-puritanical at all. |
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16th August 2022, 03:51 AM | #2349 |
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16th August 2022, 05:29 AM | #2350 |
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16th August 2022, 05:35 AM | #2351 |
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16th August 2022, 05:39 AM | #2352 |
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The social requirements to stop using a product/service or stop watching/reading a creator's works is nowhere near as high as people are pretending it is.
You don't have to justify not liking something to anywhere near this degree, and we are never asked to when it's people in positions of power putting much greater influence on people in positions of no power. |
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16th August 2022, 05:44 AM | #2353 |
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Person makes themselves famous as an anti-trans activist, then gets shocked that grad students at Harvard rescind a speaking engagement based on her public persona.
Doesn't Harvard know that students should be forced to attend lectures given by people known more for their bigotry than for their contributions to whatever the topic they're supposed to be talking about is? |
16th August 2022, 07:27 AM | #2354 |
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Person 1: Hello. I am voluntarily in a free society choosing to purchase your product/service or partake of your media.
Person 2: I just want to say that people of Person 1's demographic are bad. Person 1: I am now deciding to no longer voluntarily in a free society choose to purchase your product/service or partake in your media. I've been begging, literally begging, for two threads now for anyone to explain to what's wrong in that scenario. |
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16th August 2022, 08:19 AM | #2355 |
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16th August 2022, 08:30 AM | #2356 |
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We've looked at several specific examples of cancellations in these threads, but no one fitting the description of "Person 2" comes to mind, unless you think certain political or personal views count as demographic traits.
If you're making a hypothetical case, that's fine, but it is interesting that no actual cases come to mind. |
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16th August 2022, 08:35 AM | #2357 |
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Lies in their event against cancel culture CPAC canceled a speaker for exactly that reason.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/23/polit...nts/index.html Canceling a speaker for their social media presence is exactly what you are against right, and here we have that liberal bastion CPAC doing exactly that. |
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16th August 2022, 04:16 PM | #2358 |
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16th August 2022, 05:23 PM | #2360 |
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Okay fine, boycotts are marginally performative.
And yes, I'm arguing that boycotts are, though not necessarily but mostly, pointless and have yet to show anything conclusive. If you can find something that moves the societal needle in the recent past, I'm all ears. |
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