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16th August 2022, 06:08 AM | #1041 |
Illuminator
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John Bolton says that he was NOT aware of any "standing order" that any document that Trump took out of the West Wing was automatically to be declassified.
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/joh...164102671.html The whole notion is, IMnotusuallyHO, absurd. I can't believe that Trump's staff wouldn't have rebelled, as instantaneously declaring documents to be declassified would have created all sorts of problems. |
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16th August 2022, 07:21 AM | #1042 |
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According to an article in the Washington Post (which is probably behind a paywall), NARA first realized that Trump hadn't turned over all of his documents when the documents that he did turn over contained no records of his communications with Kim Jung Un.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...solomon-patel/ |
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"Facts are stupid things." Ronald Reagan |
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16th August 2022, 07:30 AM | #1043 |
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16th August 2022, 07:33 AM | #1044 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Now can he please go away?
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16th August 2022, 08:30 AM | #1045 |
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Disturbances of the semantic reactions in connection with faulty education and ignorance must be considered as sub-microscopic colloidal lesions - Alfred O. Korzybski |
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16th August 2022, 12:31 PM | #1046 |
Illuminator
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My understanding is that classified documents are closely tracked and cross referenced.
I could be wrong but I think it works such that if you have secret document #007 the records will show how many copies of that same document exist and where they are supposed to be. You should also be able to tell what documents reference or pertain to document #007. It sounds like a lot of work. My guess is that early in the Biden days the White House and the national security agencies knew here were a bunch of documents and/or their copies that couldn't be found. They also knew where they were supposed to be. So ya' wouldn't have to be Columbo to figure out that I-can't-keep-a-secret-Donnie walked off with the goods. It seems to me the real government tried to keep it all civil and on the quite by asking Trump and his minions about the documents. That didn't work . . .and here we are. |
16th August 2022, 12:50 PM | #1047 |
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I've skimmed through portions of a couple of executive orders dealing with document classification, and they both mention databases. Given that the government generates several million records per year, they would clearly need to maintain databases of their documents or they would never be able to keep track of them (and I would think that not keeping track of documents would, among other things, make it impossible to be in compliance with the Freedom of Information Act).
It would seem that 3 tasks would be necessary when a document is declassified: 1) document databases need to be updated to reflect the new status of the document; 2) affected agencies need to be notified that certain information is no longer classified; 3) the document needs to be re-labeled, lest anyone not handling the document in conformance with its labeled classification status be arrested or fired and have to depend on the president verifying that the document really was declassified. This is why it is absurd to believe that there was a policy by which a document would be considered to be declassified if Trump simply left the West Wing with the document. His staff surely would have explained to him how such a policy could not possibly work. |
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16th August 2022, 01:58 PM | #1048 |
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Yes, they are catalogued and indexed. The DoJ very likely knew most of what was missing from the White House SCIF room and had evidence as to where the missing documents were, which is why they knew that The Fat Orange Turd's lawyers were lying when they said everything had been returned.
I'm betting they haven't got everything back, and that The Fat Orange Turd still has classified documents squirrelled away somewhere else. |
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16th August 2022, 02:20 PM | #1049 |
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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16th August 2022, 02:57 PM | #1050 |
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16th August 2022, 03:09 PM | #1051 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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16th August 2022, 03:28 PM | #1052 |
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16th August 2022, 05:03 PM | #1053 |
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16th August 2022, 05:45 PM | #1054 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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16th August 2022, 06:21 PM | #1055 |
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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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16th August 2022, 07:47 PM | #1056 |
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16th August 2022, 07:49 PM | #1057 |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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16th August 2022, 08:30 PM | #1058 |
Potsing Whiled Runk
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16th August 2022, 10:41 PM | #1059 |
Uncritical "thinker"
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I have just come across this new account that Beau of the Fifth Column retweeted
https://twitter.com/realGollumTrump/...S2D0f400jn2l2Q
Quote:
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OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
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17th August 2022, 01:05 AM | #1060 |
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Did Giuliani come up with the idea for that letter, because that letter is a terrible idea.
NARA took out a bunch of documents a few months ago. Because those contained classified national security documents, DOJ started an investigation. DOJ visited Mar-A-Lago in early June and discovered more papers, apparently even after Trump had said he had turned over everything. Then on June 19 he send a letter to the Archivist designating a couple of people as representatives to access his Presidential records under 36 C.F.R. § 1270.44(a)(4). A former President does have special access to potentially obtain those documents, but there is a process. I expect this was to set up an argument that he could have obtained the documents legally through this means, therefore it is just a small matter of the timeliness of the paperwork and no big deal. But a letter of this nature is the first step in the process, not a magical time machine that wipes away past crimes. Designating representatives at this point is all but admitting that he improperly and illegally took the documents. Lawyers are straw grasping. |
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17th August 2022, 06:28 AM | #1061 | |||
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Former prosecutor Glenn Kirshner has suggested a theory about why Trump's passports were taken in the first place.
He said it is common when executing a search warrant for officers to collect evidence showing "possession". (i.e. which shows that the subject of the investigation actually had access to the materials in question.) If they had just grabbed the documents and nothing else, Trump might have claimed "I never go in that room. It must have been Giulliani.". The existence of something personal like his passports shows that at the very least Trump would have had access to the room where the documents were found.
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17th August 2022, 06:45 AM | #1062 |
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"To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage
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17th August 2022, 06:47 AM | #1063 |
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Apprently now Trump's big problem is just finding a lawyer to represent him.
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17th August 2022, 06:53 AM | #1064 |
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17th August 2022, 06:55 AM | #1065 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Oh please, it's nothing complicated.
He had his passports in a random envelope in one of the boxes they took. When they went through the contents after they got it off site, they found his passports and so returned them. He couldn't have told you his passports were in there until they told him. That's why he didn't tell anyone that they took his passports until they told him. |
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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17th August 2022, 07:42 AM | #1066 |
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17th August 2022, 07:52 AM | #1067 |
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Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
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17th August 2022, 07:53 AM | #1068 |
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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17th August 2022, 07:59 AM | #1069 |
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17th August 2022, 08:17 AM | #1070 |
Illuminator
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17th August 2022, 08:22 AM | #1071 |
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Mark my word the Trumpers are going to spin this into Trump bravely leading some personal investigation into the ebil librul child sex devil worshipping deep state that plotting to destroy America...
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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17th August 2022, 08:43 AM | #1072 |
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Yeah, I agree with this. From all accounts I've seen, it doesn't sound like this is uncommon at all. I'm assuming when he travels he has someone to hold his hand, pack his bags, grab his passport, and do everything he can't be bothered to do.
I wonder who he'll throw under the bus next. I'm kind of shocked that he hasn't blamed people who did the packing. He kind of did in that he said the packing was done hastily but knowing Trump he'll end up saying it was Melanie. "You see, Melanie did all the packing. So, really, she's the one at fault here!" |
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17th August 2022, 08:48 AM | #1073 |
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17th August 2022, 08:57 AM | #1074 |
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What bothers me most is that the boxes were evidently right out in the open. I mean, a few hundred bucks and a creative carpenter and you could easily build a bug out room that would keep boxes of incriminating paper away from prying eyes. I'd be shocked if he didn't have one already. The boxes are going to be props filled with take-out menus, I just know it.
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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17th August 2022, 10:19 AM | #1075 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Because it's relevant to how classified material can end up where it's not supposed to be.
Quote:
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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17th August 2022, 10:55 AM | #1076 | ||
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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17th August 2022, 11:03 AM | #1077 |
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Seems to me someone had to sign to get those documents out of secure storage. Who was that?
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17th August 2022, 11:20 AM | #1078 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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17th August 2022, 11:35 AM | #1079 |
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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17th August 2022, 11:38 AM | #1080 |
Penultimate Amazing
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You seem to be under the impression that Trump liked to read. He famously didn't. Aides had to read to him, and/or dumb down briefings with his name in every other sentence, etc, for him to pay any attention at all.
Trump didn't have 27-30 boxes of TS/SCI documents sitting around the oval office for him to research every day. |
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