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Old 29th July 2022, 05:36 AM   #1
seayakin
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Forward Party

I'm surpised nothing is out on this forum but there is a new centrist party. Maybe I'm being overly hopeful but it seems it would impact the Republicans more. This an effort of Andrew Yang, Christine Todd Whitman and others.

Forward Party Website
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Old 29th July 2022, 05:38 AM   #2
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Here is a Reuters Article.
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Old 29th July 2022, 06:07 AM   #3
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"Centrist" party. A bunch of wannabe celebrities trying to make corporate shilling look cool.
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Old 29th July 2022, 06:11 AM   #4
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Two premises they state in explanation are so obviously false that it's difficult to believe they are really this dumb instead of just lying.

One such premise is that there's an "extreme left" somewhere out there which actually believes/wants the things these people accuse them of, which just happen entirely by coincidence to be routine Republican false accusations.

The other is that what voters who don't like either of the two parties want is something between them, not something outside them.
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Old 29th July 2022, 06:12 AM   #5
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I guess the "Troll Party Who's Only Job is to Pull the cord on the back of the Progressives Who Only Live on Twitter" party was too big to feet on the tshirts.
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Old 29th July 2022, 06:16 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Two premises they state in explanation are so obviously false that it's difficult to believe they are really this dumb instead of just lying.

One such premise is that there's an "extreme left" somewhere out there which actually believes/wants the things these people accuse them of, which just happen entirely by coincidence to be routine Republican false accusations.
There are. There are straight up communists in this country.
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Old 29th July 2022, 06:22 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by seayakin View Post
I'm surpised nothing is out on this forum but there is a new centrist party. Maybe I'm being overly hopeful but it seems it would impact the Republicans more. This an effort of Andrew Yang, Christine Todd Whitman and others.

Forward Party Website
That website is so vague and esoteric you’d think it was a William Gibson novel.
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Old 29th July 2022, 06:43 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Two premises they state in explanation are so obviously false that it's difficult to believe they are really this dumb instead of just lying.

One such premise is that there's an "extreme left" somewhere out there which actually believes/wants the things these people accuse them of, which just happen entirely by coincidence to be routine Republican false accusations.

The other is that what voters who don't like either of the two parties want is something between them, not something outside them.
It's funny how all of these supposed third parties are still trying to work within the A or B political system we have.

I also like how they are going straight to a national election and convention instead of doing the leg work of getting candidates elected in local elections. Ya, they should totally be taken seriously.
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Old 29th July 2022, 06:49 AM   #9
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Did they forget all the fuss over Obama's "Forward" campaign posters and slogan being reminiscent of communist propaganda?

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...n-really-means

https://www.washingtontimes.com/blog...ism-socialism/
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Old 29th July 2022, 06:50 AM   #10
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Andrew Yang = Attention Whore
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Old 29th July 2022, 06:51 AM   #11
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The system of having:

a) constituencies electing just one bloke or blokette
b) only a senator per state per election
c) an electoral college with the corrupt rule of who they win gets all the state votes –with the exception of Maine and ... North Dakota?–

carries the inescapable consecuence of a polarized political scene with no institutional room for third parties in a state level.

That is not to say that independent candidates are not viable in a local level or that the polarizing political Maniqueism must necessary involve the same pair all accross the 50+1.

And that's where the opportunity lies in such an antidemocratic system: a new party created in a couple of states that patiently and impecably works until it wins and then starts expanding nationwide. If such new party should exist it could be in power in as little as three or four ... decades.

Other things won't do. That ridiculous pact of states voting in the electoral college for the candidate that wins the popular vote won't do.

And a culture that tolerates a clown that says that AIDS is not a real illness, climate change doesn't exist, Muslims in NJ were cheering as the Twin Towers fell and the presidencial candidate was not a natural born citizen, and yet he's elected president years later, to then recommend to drink chemical disinfectant and dangerously flirt with monsieur coup d'etat in order to keep power and still remains as a strong candidate for the presidential elections is not going to give a chance to such new parties, unfit for improvement as it is.

And to prove that ungentlemanly and non-charitable behaviours prevail all accross the board, I'm sure this thread will soon be flooded by posts below the belt claiming that Mr. Wang, Mr. Abble and Ms. IVM are not worthy.

[No English spell checker on this device, while the Spanish one permanently interferes]
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Old 29th July 2022, 07:12 AM   #12
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I would quite like a viable third party to happen. I'm doubtful about this particular one because their website, in addition to being terribly designed, is utterly vague about what their actual platform is. I don't want to read generalizations and sound bytes, I want to see a bullet point list of actual policy positions. Granted the regular parties also indulge in waffle and vagueness and meaningless generalizations, but we know from their history what they actually want and try to do. A new party needs to state things, clearly, up front.

I suggest the formation of a different new party, to be called the Practical Party, where we list in plain language what we actually want to happen. Preferable in an Excel spreadsheet with columns that can be filtered on keywords! C'mon, where are my practical people at? Do you have a To Do list? Do you have several To Do lists? Do you have master list of lists? And you color-code entries? Then you may be a Practical Party person!
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Old 29th July 2022, 07:46 AM   #13
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Will there be pie...charts?
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Old 29th July 2022, 07:54 AM   #14
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I agree with much has been said. However, I still take it as a positive that they are trying to form a 3rd party. Assuming Yang would run under the third party in 2024, would he pull more democratic or republican voters? If Christine Todd Whitman ran I could see more Republican voters being pulled but I'm guessing as others have pointed out, Yang probably has a lot of his ego invested this and won't let things go without his say.
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Old 29th July 2022, 08:36 AM   #15
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Just took a look at their website. Seems like not only bull ****, but unimaginative bull ****. Basically saying "yeah man, well take care of the problems, cause we're different! Just put us in power and don't worry your pretty little heads too much"
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Old 29th July 2022, 09:00 AM   #16
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I'm reminded of an episode of a "Good Times" in which a local politician running for reelection responded to every question about the issues with "I have very definite opinions about that. Very definite opinions."
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Old 29th July 2022, 09:10 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I would quite like a viable third party to happen. I'm doubtful about this particular one because their website, in addition to being terribly designed, is utterly vague about what their actual platform is. I don't want to read generalizations and sound bytes, I want to see a bullet point list of actual policy positions. Granted the regular parties also indulge in waffle and vagueness and meaningless generalizations, but we know from their history what they actually want and try to do. A new party needs to state things, clearly, up front.

I suggest the formation of a different new party, to be called the Practical Party, where we list in plain language what we actually want to happen. Preferable in an Excel spreadsheet with columns that can be filtered on keywords! C'mon, where are my practical people at? Do you have a To Do list? Do you have several To Do lists? Do you have master list of lists? And you color-code entries? Then you may be a Practical Party person!
I'm certainly a Practical Party person!
However, I'm going to remain in the Cry If I Want To Party.
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Old 29th July 2022, 09:13 AM   #18
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How well do you think a third party would do if the platform was just the highest rated polled position on every issue?
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Old 29th July 2022, 09:25 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
How well do you think a third party would do if the platform was just the highest rated polled position on every issue?
Abysmally. No one would trust them, unless they had a track record of fighting for principled action.
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Old 29th July 2022, 09:57 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Abysmally. No one would trust them, unless they had a track record of fighting for principled action.

It would also rely on the opinions of the population being more homogeneous than they are. If you adopt the most popular opinions on Issue A, Issue B, and Issue C, you'll run into various permutations of "I like their views on Issue A, but I hate their views on Issue B and Issue C, so I'm not going to vote for them." 75% of the population may support each issue, but it's not necessarily the same 75% for each of them.
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Old 29th July 2022, 10:04 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
It would also rely on the opinions of the population being more homogeneous than they are. If you adopt the most popular opinions on Issue A, Issue B, and Issue C, you'll run into various permutations of "I like their views on Issue A, but I hate their views on Issue B and Issue C, so I'm not going to vote for them." 75% of the population may support each issue, but it's not necessarily the same 75% for each of them.
It is just a matter of more complicated math and many more variables. I wonder what that middle compromise looks like and how big it actually is.
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Old 29th July 2022, 10:19 AM   #22
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A centrist party sounds great, but unfortunately there are few passionate moderates.
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Old 29th July 2022, 10:39 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
It's funny how all of these supposed third parties are still trying to work within the A or B political system we have.

I also like how they are going straight to a national election and convention instead of doing the leg work of getting candidates elected in local elections. Ya, they should totally be taken seriously.
That's the way to do it, really. Find a Ross Perot just less crazy and quitty and go from there. Know going in that you aren't trying to be a third option. The idea is to become the new A and let the old A and B fight over being B.

This party just seems like taking everything that makes people uninterested in politics and distilling it into one bottle.
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Old 29th July 2022, 11:32 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
"Centrist" party. A bunch of wannabe celebrities trying to make corporate shilling look cool.
Hardlinr ideologue hates moderates. What a surpriae.

ANybody who does not demand government seizure of all businesses is probably a corporate shill in your book.

I am skeptical about this party..it does smell a little of a Yang ego trip...but the disdain that the hardliners in both parties have toward moderates is not a good thing for Democracy.
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Old 29th July 2022, 11:35 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
That website is so vague and esoteric you’d think it was a William Gibson novel.
I have to agree, and I am strongly in favor of a viable centrist party.
Yang involvment makes me skeptical.
But I note the hatred for centrist in general I am seeing in this forum.
Sort of a Bizzaro version of the Trumpers yelling about RINOs.
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Old 29th July 2022, 11:50 AM   #26
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I wonder how they differentiate themselves from the Alliance party, besides being ultra-vague that is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allian...(United_States)
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Old 29th July 2022, 12:11 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I have to agree, and I am strongly in favor of a viable centrist party.
Yang involvment makes me skeptical.
But I note the hatred for centrist in general I am seeing in this forum.
Sort of a Bizzaro version of the Trumpers yelling about RINOs.
People like Yang and Whitman think that their idea of a centrist party is viable because those are the people they see at cocktail parties.

There is a viable centrist party. A party of feckless compromise and slavish devotion to the status quo. It already has majority support but suffers from the anti-democratic features of US politics but does very little to address that.

Biden was already making deals to put anti-abortion judges on the federal bench. If these so called moderate GOPers that would support a 3rd party would just make the leap to the Democratic Party already they'd have exactly the party they want.
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Old 29th July 2022, 02:39 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
People like Yang and Whitman think that their idea of a centrist party is viable because those are the people they see at cocktail parties.

There is a viable centrist party. A party of feckless compromise and slavish devotion to the status quo. It already has majority support but suffers from the anti-democratic features of US politics but does very little to address that.

Biden was already making deals to put anti-abortion judges on the federal bench. If these so called moderate GOPers that would support a 3rd party would just make the leap to the Democratic Party already they'd have exactly the party they want.
You seem to have trouble dealing with the fact that most Americans are not as far to the left as you are.
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Old 29th July 2022, 02:40 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
That's the way to do it, really. Find a Ross Perot just less crazy and quitty and go from there. Know going in that you aren't trying to be a third option. The idea is to become the new A and let the old A and B fight over being B.

This party just seems like taking everything that makes people uninterested in politics and distilling it into one bottle.

And a Hard Left line is what people want to hear....
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Old 29th July 2022, 03:38 PM   #30
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Yawn. Until these knuckleheads acknowledge how far the Radical Right has gone at least once, don't wanna hear that both sides ********.
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Old 29th July 2022, 04:33 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Yawn. Until these knuckleheads acknowledge how far the Radical Right has gone at least once, don't wanna hear that both sides ********.
I am a "Centrist" who freely admits the GOP has gone stark raving mad.
I just don't think that to go bonkers in the opposite direction is a answer.
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Old 29th July 2022, 05:02 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am a "Centrist" who freely admits the GOP has gone stark raving mad.
I just don't think that to go bonkers in the opposite direction is a answer.
What's the "bonkers" that anybody's going to the left? What are these "bonkers" extremist positions that people supposedly believe and are damaging the country by so viciously fighting for?

Yang & Gang couldn't find any real examples that are actually things anybody anywhere actually thinks, so they had to go with lies (which just happen to be Republican talking points by some amazing coincidence). If they're so "centrist" and "moderate", why did they only need to lie about one side (and copy those lies from the other side)?

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Old 29th July 2022, 05:31 PM   #33
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In most of Europe, Hillary Clinton would have been a center-right candidate. I saw a recent headline that said Joe Rogan self-identifies as a "bleeding heart liberal." Why? Because he supports same-sex marriage, universal health-care, and marijuana legalization? Trump was the least conservative candidate in 2016. He was a Republican who said Social Security and Medicare would be unmolested. Wasn't he the only candidate who refused to sign Norquist's Tax Pledge? He held up a rainbow flag, declared NATO obsolete, and vowed not to get into more wars. He staked out a traditionally conservative, anti-corporate position on immigration and the southern border. By 2020, he was Mr. Conservative (who proudly wanted his signature on stimulus checks).

The structure of the system dictates two parties, so this is certain to fail. It's all the more certain to fail if it's framed as centrist. When third parties are effective, they are the "bee sting of American politics": they attack and then die. Andrew Yang is a social entrepreneur seemingly motivated by ego and vanity (which is true for most, but more so for him).
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Old 29th July 2022, 05:46 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am a "Centrist" who freely admits the GOP has gone stark raving mad.
I just don't think that to go bonkers in the opposite direction is a answer.
I'd be glad to see these pretend moderates admit just once that the GOP has gone stark raving mad. But they don't. They seem terrified of criticizing the right, because they know they have to reel them in a little in order to play their "both sides" card.

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Old 29th July 2022, 05:49 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
In most of Europe, Hillary Clinton would have been a center-right candidate.
Not just Europe and not just them + other similarly advanced countries either; practically all American politicians are even substantially to the right of the American people.
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Old 29th July 2022, 06:32 PM   #36
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Duverger's lawWP

Quote:
In political science, Duverger's law holds that single-ballot plurality-rule elections (such as first past the post) structured within single-member districts tend to favor a two-party system. The discovery of this tendency is attributed to Maurice Duverger, a French sociologist who observed the effect and recorded it in several papers published in the 1950s and 1960s.[1] In the course of further research, other political scientists began calling the effect a "law" or principle.

As a corollary to the law, Duverger also asserted that proportional representation favors multi-partism, as does the plurality system with runoff elections.[2]

Duverger's law draws from a model of causality from the electoral system to a party system. A proportional representation (PR) system creates electoral conditions that foster the development of many parties, whereas a plurality system marginalizes smaller political parties, generally resulting in a two-party system.

Most countries with plurality voting have representation in their legislatures by more than two parties. While the United States is very much a two-party system, the United Kingdom, Canada and India have consistently had multiparty parliaments.[3][4] However, only the two dominant parties of their times have formed governments in the United Kingdom and Canada.[dubious – discuss][citation needed] Eric Dickson and Kenneth Scheve argue that there is a counter force to Duverger's law, that on the national level a plurality system encourages two parties, but in the individual constituencies supermajorities will lead to the vote fracturing.[5] Steven R. Reed has shown Duverger's law to work in Japan[6] and Italy.[7]
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Old 29th July 2022, 08:31 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Trump was the least conservative candidate in 2016. He was a Republican who said Social Security and Medicare would be unmolested. Wasn't he the only candidate who refused to sign Norquist's Tax Pledge? He held up a rainbow flag, declared NATO obsolete, and vowed not to get into more wars. He staked out a traditionally conservative, anti-corporate position on immigration and the southern border. By 2020, he was Mr. Conservative (who proudly wanted his signature on stimulus checks).
This says plenty about what Trump was willing to do to stay in power, but not much about his true political leanings - which are and always have been conservative.

Why do I say that? The fundamental difference between conservative and liberal thought is empathy. Conservatives don't have it. They only care about themselves. Nothing that Trump did showed any shred of empathy. Where he espoused a liberal stance it was only because it might benefit him personally. Why did he even want to become president? To make America a better place - or to spite Obama, bask in the popularity, and monetize it?

Trump appealed to the Deplorables because his selfishness resonated with them. This explains his (and their) position better than any 'right' or 'left' label put on an issue.
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Old 29th July 2022, 08:34 PM   #38
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This argument that somehow politicians are more conservative
...are you sure you are not just measuring age?
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Old 30th July 2022, 07:13 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Andrew Yang = Attention Whore
The more politically oriented, poverty stricken, third cousin of lord Elon.
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Old 30th July 2022, 09:08 AM   #40
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A third party can't thrive under a FPTP voting system.

A Democrat voter is more likely to vote Democrat than Forward for fear that if enough votes bleed away from the Democrat candidate then the Republican candidate will get the plurality and win by default.

Ditto for a Republican voter.
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