|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
14th August 2022, 02:30 PM | #1 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,862
|
Will Trump be indicted?
Trump is facing possible indictment for Federal crimes. He's also facing possible indictment for election crimes in Georgia.
Will he be indicted? I say its 50/50. What say you? |
14th August 2022, 02:53 PM | #2 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,402
|
I hate to say it but it makes a difference what he gets indicted for.
If he gets it for January 6 it might well set off the ultra MAGA boys and start civil unrest. On the other end of the scale is an indictment for federal tax crimes. "Hell, everybody gets in tax trouble. We ain't going to war over this.", the MAGA boys might say. Next most inflammatory thing is a charge over the documents. Then, up the scale, is an election fraud charge. This goes to the stolen election lie and would inflame his base. One prosecutorial strategy would be to continue to engage Trump and subsequently nail him for making false statements, perjury, lying to a grand jury etc. |
14th August 2022, 03:00 PM | #3 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 39,057
|
Voted no, hope I'm wrong.
|
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
|
14th August 2022, 03:32 PM | #4 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,844
|
I voted no, but hope to be mistaken.
|
__________________
Like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore, So do our minutes hasten to their end . . . WS |
|
14th August 2022, 03:34 PM | #5 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
My standard caveat is still in effect. He might be on a technical level, but not in a way that matters.
|
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
14th August 2022, 03:36 PM | #6 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
|
|
14th August 2022, 03:36 PM | #7 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
I voted yes. I'm usually what I'd call a 'realisist' vs a pessimist but in this case, it's too important not to indict the POS. There is ample evidence of his many criminal activities. And screw the idea that he can't indict him out of fear of the Maga idiots who resort to violence. Most of them are all talk and no action and/or cowards. And those that do resort to violence: throw the book at them with everything the law allows.
|
14th August 2022, 03:43 PM | #8 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
|
|
14th August 2022, 03:47 PM | #9 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,405
|
|
__________________
- "Who is the greater fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the fool?" [Uknown] - "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games'] |
|
14th August 2022, 03:59 PM | #10 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,248
|
I voted "No". It's very difficult to get a conviction against someone who can afford top lawyers. Especially with the crimes for which Trump is being investigated being fairly complex. If it was easy to get convictions against someone like Trump, he would probably already be in jail. Given the ramifications of Trump being acquitted, a prosecutor would have to be extremely confident of getting a conviction before putting Trump on trial.
|
__________________
"Facts are stupid things." Ronald Reagan |
|
14th August 2022, 04:01 PM | #11 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,405
|
|
__________________
- "Who is the greater fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the fool?" [Uknown] - "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games'] |
|
14th August 2022, 04:37 PM | #12 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 27,710
|
I voted yes. The DoJ is playing Game of Thrones here. They have to indict at this point. You don't just search a former president's home and walk away, not after you leave with boxes of classified information.
|
__________________
Ashley Babbit was a good start. |
|
14th August 2022, 04:44 PM | #13 |
Poisoned Waffles
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
|
I think the magic word here is "nuclear"; he could have gotten away with any other kinds of documents, but not those related to nuclear weapons. Those are automatically a Very Big Deal. A line that can't be safely crossed.
Completely unrelated: I would not be in the least surprised if he dies of natural causes in the next few weeks. |
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
|
14th August 2022, 04:50 PM | #14 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
He should be. He won't be.
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
14th August 2022, 05:15 PM | #15 |
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 53,086
|
|
__________________
"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes." |
|
14th August 2022, 05:23 PM | #16 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,862
|
I think there will be some indictment
|
14th August 2022, 05:52 PM | #17 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 14,185
|
|
14th August 2022, 05:53 PM | #18 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
|
I didn't think they would until recently. The NYAG, the Fulton County DA, have him in their sights. Not to mention the January 6th Committee. For a year and a half the case against Trump has been building. The search really should be no big deal. But the DOJ crossed the Rubicon. Too much has been happening.
At what point is enough? |
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
14th August 2022, 06:17 PM | #19 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,248
|
The point that I was trying (apparently not successfully) to make is that prosecutors will be hesitant to indict Trump unless a conviction is almost guaranteed since there could be huge political consequences if Trump is acquitted. I believe that one promising investigation has already resulted in a decision not to press charges because the head DA decided that the probability of obtaining a conviction wasn't high enough.
|
__________________
"Facts are stupid things." Ronald Reagan |
|
14th August 2022, 06:20 PM | #20 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,248
|
|
__________________
"Facts are stupid things." Ronald Reagan |
|
14th August 2022, 06:21 PM | #21 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 20,571
|
I sure hope not. That might be all that's needed to ensure he runs again.
|
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. |
|
14th August 2022, 06:31 PM | #22 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,725
|
Absolutely yes. They would have never gone as far as they already have gone without an indictment down the road that was 100% bulletproof. I predict it will be close to a year from now, by August 2023. He is clearly a criminal and a threat to our safety and to our security
|
14th August 2022, 06:33 PM | #23 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 14,185
|
|
14th August 2022, 06:35 PM | #24 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 7,144
|
I'll Be satisfied with anything that puts him out to pasture where he can't run for any office again and must eek out a retirement based on charity from what remains of his cult.
|
__________________
"At the Supreme Court level where we work, 90 percent of any decision is emotional. The rational part of us supplies the reasons for supporting our predilections." Justice William O. Douglas "Humans aren't rational creatures but rationalizing creatures." Author Unknown |
|
14th August 2022, 06:37 PM | #25 |
Papa Funkosophy
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 34,263
|
If he’s indicted, I would guess it’ll happen on the state level …and probably New York.
|
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
|
14th August 2022, 06:42 PM | #26 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 16,809
|
Voted no. He won't be around to be indicted. When it all gets too tough and the walls close in too close, Trump will take his usual coward's way out: flee, throwing everyone else under the bus. To somewhere with a golf course, and no extradition treaty or taxes.
So plenty of his flunkies will get indicted, but probably not Donny. |
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
|
14th August 2022, 07:33 PM | #27 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sorth Dakonsin
Posts: 29,368
|
|
__________________
Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting. |
|
14th August 2022, 07:42 PM | #28 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
True...but the DOJ and the NY and Georgia DA's seem very much intent of indicting and they understand the level of proof they have to meet.
As I mentioned previously to those who were nay saying Merrick Garland indicting: he knows what level of proof he needs to meet and he's getting all his ducks in a row which takes time. |
14th August 2022, 07:47 PM | #29 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
Voting 'yes' gives one hope. I think some people are voting 'no' to pre-empt disappointment if he's not indicted. "I never thought he would be" is a form of self-protection.
|
14th August 2022, 09:04 PM | #30 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 16,809
|
|
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
|
14th August 2022, 09:06 PM | #31 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 16,809
|
|
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
|
14th August 2022, 09:39 PM | #32 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,453
|
Yes! For reasons previously stated--DOJ would not have gone as far as they did if they did not have really good evidence of crimes. While it will be dangerous for all to indict, it would be more dangerous to ignore.
|
14th August 2022, 09:52 PM | #33 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,557
|
Objectively, the DOJ has gone all that far: Mar-a-Lago is not, as Trump claims now, a private Home: from his tax filings, we can see very clearly that it is not, according to him.
At best, this was a search warrant executed at one of many Places of Business, highly targeted and very limited in scope. If there every was a surgical DOJ intervention, this was it. I don't see the DOJ on a Path of No Return. |
__________________
“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
|
14th August 2022, 10:46 PM | #34 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,530
|
Until a couple or few weeks ago I would have pessimistically said no. But the FBI op and Garland's recent presser have reignited my hope for some small dose of sanity to prevail down there in Crazy Town.
That sanity being the realization that fear of political consequences cannot stay the hand of justice if society is to prevail. Everyone knows Justice is at least two-tiered. The rich and powerful enjoy a leniency the hoi polloi do not. And the office of the Presidency historically has been delicately treated as more like that of a king's throne. But it is clear that this POSOTUS has crossed the threshold of leniency in too many ways to ignore. To decline to indict would be fatally injurious to the very meaning of law in a nation that claims it as foundational. To brush off the matter might touch off a fury that could eclipse that of the MAGAts with an indictment. |
14th August 2022, 11:40 PM | #35 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
|
15th August 2022, 02:09 AM | #36 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 27,710
|
|
__________________
Ashley Babbit was a good start. |
|
15th August 2022, 02:40 AM | #37 |
I lost an avatar bet.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 28,781
|
|
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly. |
|
15th August 2022, 02:47 AM | #38 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
|
|
15th August 2022, 04:29 AM | #39 |
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 14,588
|
|
__________________
A man's best friend is his dogma. |
|
15th August 2022, 04:59 AM | #40 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,305
|
Federally, after the search warrant business at Mar-a-lardo, I can only see two possibilities...
1. Trump is indicted and goes to trial 2. Trump is not indicted, and Merrick Garland is forced to resign as AG If Garland fails to gain an indictment against The Fat Orange Turd for at least one of the Federal crimes he is being investigated for, his continued service as AG could become untenable. This one is like a game of political "chicken", and as Captain Bart Mancuso (Scott Glenn) said in The Hunt For Red October.... "The hard part about playing chicken is knowing when to flinch!" Statewise, the New York investigation will be interesting. The 440 times he invoked his fifth amendment right against self incrimination could work against him. In a criminal trial, a jury is not allowed to infer anything from this, but in a civil trial, the jury can infer wrongdoing when a witness or defendant takes the fifth. In the Georgia election fraud case (which is a criminal investigation) it seems that the Fulton County DA Fani Willis is determined to keep going after him Also, everyone thought the Manhattan case was dead in the water when it seemed that the Manhattan DA, Alvin Bragg was not interested in pursuing the investigation, but two days ago, a Manhattan judge declined to throw out the case against The Fat Orange Turd's family business and its CFO Allen Weisselberg. Looks like that will go to trial late next month. |
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|