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Tags Eric Ciaramella , whistleblower issues , whistleblowers

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Old 4th November 2019, 06:48 PM   #121
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Please resize this .jpg or delete it.
If only there were a third way.
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Old 4th November 2019, 06:48 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Didn't take long for the knives to come out and people stop addressing the article and start personalizing it but that's is, as someone recently said here.....SOP
OK - addressing the article: Nobody legitimately cares.

Quite a few illegitimates carry on about it as if it made some kind of difference, but there is no valid reason to care.
Because of the multiple corroborations of the report, that cat is out of the bag, that parrot is truly deceased, that train has left the station, too little, too late, crying over spilled milk, those horses are gone and it is too late to close that barn door, crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.
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Old 4th November 2019, 06:52 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
If only there were a third way.
If only. Great jpg, but it really screws up the page.



That works. Thanks.
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Old 4th November 2019, 06:58 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
The woman, Alexandra Chalupa, was paid $412,000 from 2004 to June 2016 by the DNC.
Adjusted for inflation, that's about 3 Stormy's.
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Old 4th November 2019, 07:18 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
If only. Great jpg, but it really screws up the page.
Does it? It's not wider than the usual posts.
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Old 4th November 2019, 07:25 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Does it? It's not wider than the usual posts.
All I know is on my Android tablet it blows up the page. And the other posts are maybe 1/3rd their normal width.
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Old 4th November 2019, 07:25 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
If that its true, then it demonstrates even more just how undemocratic the electoral system is.
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I think that was demonstrated clearly in 2000 and 2016 already.
That's why I said "even more".
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Old 4th November 2019, 07:28 PM   #128
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Trump's demand that the Whistleblower be identified is encouraging the breaking of a law i.e. incitement.

Quote:
In criminal law, incitement is the encouragement of another person to commit a crime. Depending on the jurisdiction, some or all types of incitement may be illegal. Where illegal, it is known as an inchoate offense, where harm is intended but may or may not have actually occurred.
Lock. Him. Up.
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Old 4th November 2019, 07:37 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
All I know is on my Android tablet it blows up the page. And the other posts are maybe 1/3rd their normal width.
You young people and your smartphones.
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Old 5th November 2019, 06:08 AM   #130
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Okay, so, second try on the image:

untitled.jpg

Again, the link:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic

My point is that this thread exists to intimidate the (alleged) messenger rather than rationally discredit the message.

So far, nothing has been presented to persuade us that the (alleged) whistleblower didn't have his or her facts straight.
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Old 5th November 2019, 06:10 AM   #131
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Old 5th November 2019, 06:46 AM   #132
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Wow, imagine if the entire justice system operated the way Trumpublicans are saying that it should with this whisleblower.....
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Old 5th November 2019, 06:48 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Wow, imagine if the entire justice system operated the way Trumpublicans are saying that it should with this whisleblower.....
There would be no whistleblowers.

Hence those laws.
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Old 5th November 2019, 07:22 AM   #134
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I had not heard of that particular logical fallacy, but by name I'd think it would be something like
Attached Images
File Type: jpg fallacy.jpg (38.1 KB, 14 views)
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Old 5th November 2019, 08:00 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Wow, imagine if the entire justice system operated the way Trumpublicans are saying that it should with this whisleblower.....
It makes being a defense attorney more interesting.


Officer: We found a body under the bridge. It had a note on it in the defendant's handwriting saying "I killed this guy because I'm above the law and there is nothing you can do about it" Also, the dead man had a smartphone in his hands that contained a video of the incident where the defendant fired a gun at him. Also, we have tweets from the defendant acknowledging his shooting the victim.

Def atty: Officer, who told you about the body?

Officer: Some guy who was in the area putting up Bernie Sanders campaign signs.

Def atty" MOVE TO DISMISS THAT GUY WAS BIASED MY CLIENT IS A REPUBLICAN AND ALL OF THIS IS TAINTED HOW DARE THEY ASRGGHHGHGHGH!!!!!

Trump Appointee Judge: Yeah, good point. Case dismissed.
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Old 6th November 2019, 05:37 PM   #136
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It is simple really;

DEATH TO ALL FOES OF DEAR LEADER!
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Old 6th November 2019, 06:56 PM   #137
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Trump cultists gonna cult.
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Old 6th November 2019, 10:29 PM   #138
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For some reason, I'm reminded of the Spongebob movie where residents of Bikini Bottom went around with a bucket on their heads chanting "ALL HAIL PLANKTON!"
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Old 7th November 2019, 07:16 AM   #139
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I just know that the Whistleblower's attorney is going to mess up the whole plan.

Today we've got: (from Twitter)

Mark Zaid predicting a coup in 2017
Mark Zaid's YouTube channel that he linked to from his website showing his love of Disney Girl videos.
Mark Zaid's foundation having John Podesta sitting on it's board.
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Old 7th November 2019, 07:29 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I just know that the Whistleblower's attorney is going to mess up the whole plan.

Today we've got: (from Twitter)

Mark Zaid predicting a coup in 2017
We've gone over this. Disliking the President means **** all, and one can do their job while having a political bias.

Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Mark Zaid's YouTube channel that he linked to from his website showing his love of Disney Girl videos.
I'm still looking for a credible link to this because not even Fox has posted it but have posted on the "coup" statement. Sorry, I don't find Twitter trustworthy and the only website I can actually find that supports this is named "NOQ".

Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Mark Zaid's foundation having John Podesta sitting on it's board.
Per the man himself:

Quote:
I love watching right wing spin my so-called relationship to @johnpodesta bc of his listed affiliation as "advisor" to @JMadisonProject, which I founded in 1998. I believe last time I interacted w/Mr. Podesta was possibly in 2000, nearly 20 years ago.
It certainly doesn't seem like Podesta is actually involved in any way, and they don't get together. Podesta had a lot of people fooled. It sucks this guy is one of them.

I don't know this guy, and if he's a douche then he's a douche. That doesn't change the fact that Trump shouldn't be trying to out the whistleblower, **** like this is good for nothing other than a lame attempt at discrediting the whistleblower and his attorney, and the whistleblower is irrelevant because Trump and the transcript confirmed everything both whistleblowers have said.

tl;dr Who gives a ******
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Old 10th November 2019, 03:10 AM   #141
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The whistle blower could be a convicted serial killer, it doesn't matter. What he's reported is collaborated by many other known witnesses. In fact, the whistle blower could go into hiding, or try to retract his report and it wouldn't matter at this point.
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Old 10th November 2019, 03:29 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
The whistle blower could be a convicted serial killer, it doesn't matter. What he's reported is collaborated by many other known witnesses. In fact, the whistle blower could go into hiding, or try to retract his report and it wouldn't matter at this point.
Ah, but you forget that he represents a case of "The Fruit of the Poisonous Tree"!

You know, the principle that if you find 20 murdered bodies in someone's cellar and video of a guy doing the killing after an illegal search, it means that the guy is innocent.
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Old 16th December 2019, 02:35 PM   #143
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https://nypost.com/2019/12/12/heres-...should-answer/
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Old 16th December 2019, 06:48 PM   #144
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Here are a handful of the questions posed by the NY Post:

Quote:
What, if anything, did he leak?
Quote:
Did he work with Biden on Ukraine, apparently Ciaramella’s area of expertise?
Quote:
Did he know about Burisma and Hunter Biden?
Quote:
Who told him about the call, and why did that person not complain instead of him?
Quote:
How did Schiff’s staff help him tailor the complaint?
It is unclear to me how the answers to any of those questions might help us discover whether the allegations and details found in the whistleblower's report are truthful and accurate. This editorial strikes me as a fairly ham-fisted effort to distract from the various abuses of power committed by the White House in pursuit of a domestic political errand.
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Old 16th December 2019, 08:52 PM   #145
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If I murder my wife and someone blows the whistle on me because they think I'm a jerk, then it's obvious that the investigation into the murder was started because of personal bias. Therefore, the investigation is a sham and I am innocent.
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Old 16th December 2019, 09:34 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Quote:
and the questions he should answer
Pfffftt.

Why? What ******* difference does it make? Please, do tell. The evidence without any whistleblower speaks for itself.
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Old 16th December 2019, 09:37 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Pfffftt.

Why? What ******* difference does it make? Please, do tell. The evidence without any whistleblower speaks for itself.
If they show that the whistleblower only blew the whistle because he didn't like Trump, that means all of the evidence uncovered during the investigation doesn't count..........
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Old 16th December 2019, 10:25 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I honestly am scared that 2024, if he wins relection in 2020,Donnie will try to stay in power.And he mindless supporters will cheer him on.
Thank you for telling us this. Now we know not to take anything you say about Trump seriously.
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Old 17th December 2019, 12:06 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I honestly am scared that 2024, if he wins relection in 2020,Donnie will try to stay in power.And he mindless supporters will cheer him on.
While he might not try to stay in power personally, he might try putting Dump Jr up for the Republican nomination, in an effort to retain power in every way but name.
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Old 17th December 2019, 12:16 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
While he might not try to stay in power personally, he might try putting Dump Jr up for the Republican nomination, in an effort to retain power in every way but name.
Yea right. Next, you'll say that he has a loyal lackey AG that controls the DOJ and that the Senate Republicans are rigging the Senate impeachment trial....
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Old 17th December 2019, 01:07 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Ah, but you forget that he represents a case of "The Fruit of the Poisonous Tree"!

You know, the principle that if you find 20 murdered bodies in someone's cellar and video of a guy doing the killing after an illegal search, it means that the guy is innocent.
The "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree" principle is one of the most publicly misunderstood doctrines in Law, right alongside "hearsay" and the BS claim that "a failed attempt to commit a crime means no crime was committed" that Trumpistas keep trotting out.

Firstly, this evidential exclusion doesn't even apply in the case of impeachment, it only applies in Law and only when the accused has had his 4A rights violated. This happens when an Officer of the Law or an agent of the government (that bit is very important) has illegally searched an area which is covered by the accused's 4A rights, i.e. in an areas in which he/she has the right to privacy - usually the person's home or property or vehicle, or under very limited circumstances, his/her place of work. The search must be illegal through either no warrant or an illegally obtained search warrant.

Examples of exceptions to the exclusion rule;

1. Discovery of evidence as a result of an independent source
Your neighbour knows you have committed a crime. One day, your neighbour is visiting you. He takes a piece of incriminating evidence and passes it to Police. Your 4A rights have not been violated because there was no illegal search by the Police (although your lawyer could argue "chain of custody issues")

2. Inevitable discovery
You keep incriminating evidence in your top drawer at your place of employment, you have no 4A rights. If the business owner grants the Police permission to search your desk, any evidence so obtained will be admissible. Even if the owner wasn't there to give permission, the Police would have discovered the evidence anyway with a warrant issued to the owner

3. The Good Faith exception
Police obtain a search warrant based on information they believe to be true. They find incriminating evidence. Later it turns out the the information was wrong and the search warrant was not valid on probable cause, however, it was obtained and executed by government agents in good faith. The evidence is admissible.


Even if the exclusion rule did apply to impeachment, two exceptions would apply

1. The Independent Source Exception - the whistleblower is not an agent of the government

2. The Good Faith Exception - the whistleblower believed he was right to do what he did (and he was, because his actions were protected by US Federal Statute).
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Old 17th December 2019, 06:31 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Thank you for telling us this. Now we know not to take anything you say about Trump seriously.

And we also shouldn't take what Trump says seriously. He himself has publicly said, and agreed with supporters who said, that his term should be extended as compensation for the investigation. That's why people bring it up.
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Old 17th December 2019, 06:36 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
If I murder my wife and someone blows the whistle on me because they think I'm a jerk, then it's obvious that the investigation into the murder was started because of personal bias. Therefore, the investigation is a sham and I am innocent.
Worded like that, it makes the Repugnican argument sound even more silly.
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Old 17th December 2019, 06:48 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
And we also shouldn't take what Trump says seriously.
It took you this long to figure that out?
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Old 17th December 2019, 08:16 AM   #155
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
If I murder my wife and someone blows the whistle on me because they think I'm a jerk, then it's obvious that the investigation into the murder was started because of personal bias. Therefore, the investigation is a sham and I am innocent.
Since the whistleblower has no bearing on the investigation, I don't understand the opposition to having him testify. If the defense wants to waste their time going down a path that doesn't help them, then let them.
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Old 17th December 2019, 08:27 AM   #156
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Since the whistleblower has no bearing on the investigation, I don't understand the opposition to having him testify.
Do you understand why whistleblower statutes exist in the first place?

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I honestly am scared that 2024, if he wins relection in 2020,Donnie will try to stay in power. And [his] mindless supporters will cheer him on.
Where could one possibly come up with such a ridiculous idea? Surely actual GOP politicians would never suggest such a blatantly unconstitutional idea.

https://twitter.com/GovMikeHuckabee/...11276005101568
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Old 17th December 2019, 08:30 AM   #157
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Do you understand why whistleblower statutes exist in the first place?
He's already been outed. I'm not sure why you think keeping him from testifying is going to provide him with any additional protection.
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Old 17th December 2019, 08:31 AM   #158
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
He's already been outed. I'm not sure why you think keeping him from testifying is going to provide him with any additional protection.
I suppose a few online articles are a lot like having one's face on the evening news, testifying under oath, now you mention it.
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Old 17th December 2019, 08:34 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I suppose a few online articles are a lot like having one's face on the evening news, testifying under oath, now you mention it.
I can see why you think being on broadcast news is relevant, but how the hell is being under oath? Do you think he's going to be forced to lie? Do you think he's going to be tricked into lying? Do you think he's going to want to lie? Oh, and BTW, he can testify in closed hearings, so he's at no more risk of having his face in the news in that situation than he already is.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
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Old 17th December 2019, 08:35 AM   #160
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Do you understand why whistleblower statutes exist in the first place?
The DNC can pay for his protection as token of appreciation.
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