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Tags donald trump , republican party , republicans

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Old 17th October 2019, 08:56 PM   #161
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Indeed, there was a lot of bluster about birtherism but very little action.
the amount of time the Obama administration was forced to spend on this would indicate otherwise.
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Old 17th October 2019, 08:59 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
In the US? In the last decade?`



Or do you assume that the US will instantly become like Stalinist Russia if progressives get into power?
In the last decade, it's mostly been about political violence, from the left. That, and the emergence of a political-technological complex that is more about suppressing speech and controlling thought than about manufacturing weapons.
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Old 17th October 2019, 09:02 PM   #163
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
In the last decade, it's mostly been about political violence, from the left. That, and the emergence of a political-technological complex that is more about suppressing speech and controlling thought than about manufacturing weapons.
you know that none of this is right, .. right?

political violence comes by orders of magnitude more from the Right.

And fact-checking isn't the same as suppressing speech. Neither is not giving someone a platform you think might cause harm.

The data is clear, but for some reason people tend to read it upside down.
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Old 17th October 2019, 09:07 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
you know that none of this is right, .. right?

political violence comes by orders of magnitude more from the Right.

And fact-checking isn't the same as suppressing speech. Neither is not giving someone a platform you think might cause harm.

The data is clear, but for some reason people tend to read it upside down.
When you think about it, the progressive political-technological complex is far more "uniquely" bad than mere birtherism.
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Old 17th October 2019, 09:09 PM   #165
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
When you think about it, the progressive political-technological complex is far more "uniquely" bad than mere birtherism.
you assume that there is a "complex" to begin with, instead of just adaption to a change in socio-economic forces brought on by new technology.
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Old 17th October 2019, 09:35 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
When you think about it, the progressive political-technological complex is far more "uniquely" bad than mere birtherism.
You compare it to "mere birtherism" when my actual position was about the more general disinformation campaigns the GOP have been waging on social media, causing people such as yourself to believe such rubbish as political violence is coming primarily from the left, or that there is a "progressive political-technological complex" (whatever that is, LOL!), or Birtherism, or Clinton Murder Spree, or Millions of Illegals Voting, etc.

Why don't you address the argument I actually make instead of some oversimplified straw man?

Oh yeah, that's right: Disingenuous Much?

This probably belongs in here somewhere as well:

https://www.vox.com/2018/10/23/18004...-gap-explained
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Old 17th October 2019, 09:37 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
As an avid "Trumper" I find your lack of enthusiasm for our current POTUS disheartening.

Good. I hope you ultimately lose your heart completely.

Sincerely.
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Old 17th October 2019, 11:13 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Then why do you keep coming back to argue the point? Just like to waste my time?
Because I thought you were making a more interesting argument. Turns out you weren't. My bad.
Quote:
No, I am not. As I have explained. Repeatedly.
Yes you are, whether you mean to or not. You chose your words poorly and now you are blaming me for not understanding. But fine, you say they are only "different" but not "worse" than any other and that's fine with me. It renders your OP completely meaningless and uninteresting but whatever.
Quote:
You keep clinging to that notion that "uniquely bad" should somehow translate to "worst". I've already explained that to you. Why must you keep wasting my time regurgitating your misconception again. And again. And again.......???
Because your arguments are poorly phrased. Do better.
Quote:
And in the larger context: Do you agree that if Trump is not "uniquely bad" (under any interpretation) then he is not worth complaining about??? If so, then allow me to explain why you are wrong. If not, then, well, like I said, that's what this thread was really about to begin with. I guess we agree after all, in that case.
I believe you have a right to complain about Trump all you want to and its worth it for you to air those complaints. I don't have a problem with that at all.

But see, your OP didn't say anything about rights to complain about Trump. Again, if that's what you wanted to say, you should have just said it.
Quote:
Here's what theprestige actually said:

No, he didn't say I had no right to complain. Yes, he was dismissive of complaints against Trump because Trump isn't unique. I continue to maintain that is rubbish that is worth calling out. Hence this thread.
If that's what you are arguing about here, you did a poor job of making that point in your OP. Even so, I think he's right: some people just have to blow up every stupid thing Trump does into the "worst thing evar!" There's a difference between legitimate criticism and hyperbole.
Quote:
Sue me if I wanted to come across as somewhat provocative.
You should strive to come across as somewhat clear.
Quote:
I'm going to point out you when argue in bad faith. Get over it.
I think you should "get over" personalizing things and focus on the arguments, not your opinions about me and how I argue. Friendly advice.
Quote:
Not as significant as majorities, no. Nice whataboutism attempt, however. Honestly, sometimes it seems like that's the only tool you have in your kit.
Oh great, a specious accusation of whataboutism! You are saying that belief in BS is a unique thing to the GOP. It is germane to point out that significant amounts of Dems also believe BS. Your fixation on majorities is just weird.
Quote:
You got a cite for that 50.001%? I seem to recall it being more of a majority than that.
LOL. The 50.001% is just a stand in for the idea of a majority and it serves to illustrate how ridiculous the fixation on "majority" is.
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This seems like a good place for me to note the fact that the moderators evidently frown on me calling you a liar. Just sayin.
Just sayin' not sayin, huh? Your accusations are totally unwarranted. Disagreement with you is not lying.
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You're being willfully blind in refusing to acknowledge Trump's mental illness.
Are you qualified to assess mental illness in people you've never met? Or are you just listening to unethical "professionals" who confirm your biases?

And beyond that: Do you think mentally ill people are bad people?
Quote:
They don't have a workable plan for it? Gee, someone should probably tell Bernie Sanders that.
Yes, they should. But he just had a heart attack so they probably don't want to excite him too much.
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LOL! See, this here's an example of what I've been referring to with disinformation campaign: You've bought into the right wing BS narrative that they don't have an actual workable plan.
Bernie's plan is pure naive fantasy. Much like AOCs "Green New Deal."
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You're guilty of it.
This is an uncalled for accusation. Just more well-poisoning...
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I can't see it because it's behind a paywall. Wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn that it's just more right wing BS, to be honest with you.
It's the NYT. I quoted enough to give you the gist. Kinda shatters the notion that conspiracy thought is unique to the GOP.
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Old 18th October 2019, 03:52 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Because I thought you were making a more interesting argument. Turns out you weren't. My bad.
My argument was clarified for you multiple posts ago....and yet here you are. So I ask again: Why are you still here?

Quote:
Yes you are, whether you mean to or not. You chose your words poorly and now you are blaming me for not understanding.
Nope. You still misunderstand the word "unique". It does not mean what you keep insisting it means. Do you have no other counter argument? This one was old two weeks ago.

Quote:
But fine, you say they are only "different" but not "worse" than any other and that's fine with me.
If it's fine with you then please quit bringing it up and switch to something relevant for a change.

Quote:
It renders your OP completely meaningless and uninteresting but whatever.
You have a right to that opinion, but in that case I again wonder: Why are you still here???

Quote:
Because your arguments are poorly phrased. Do better. I believe you have a right to complain about Trump all you want to and its worth it for you to air those complaints. I don't have a problem with that at all.
It's not my argument's fault that your vocabulary is faulty.

Quote:
But see, your OP didn't say anything about rights to complain about Trump. Again, if that's what you wanted to say, you should have just said it.
I'll repeat: Sue me if I wanted to come across as somewhat provocative.


Quote:
If that's what you are arguing about here, you did a poor job of making that point in your OP. Even so, I think he's right: some people just have to blow up every stupid thing Trump does into the "worst thing evar!" There's a difference between legitimate criticism and hyperbole.
Yeah, complaints about Trump's corruption are legitimate. Complaints about Obama's tan suits and Dijon mustard choice are hyperbole. Agree or disagree??

Quote:
You should strive to come across as somewhat clear.
I think you should "get over" personalizing things and focus on the arguments, not your opinions about me and how I argue. Friendly advice.
You should learn what words mean and not assume they mean something else.

Quote:
Oh great, a specious accusation of whataboutism! You are saying that belief in BS is a unique thing to the GOP. It is germane to point out that significant amounts of Dems also believe BS.
It is unique at the current level. So what if a small minority of Dems believe this or that--I'm alarmed by the majority of idiots in the GOP.

Quote:
Your fixation on majorities is just weird.
It's far from unique. Did you know many things are decided by "majority"? The electoral college, for example. Do you think I'm the first one in history to think a majority is significant??? I'm astounded that you seem to think otherwise---Now that is, if not unique, then uncommon, at the very least.


Quote:
LOL. The 50.001% is just a stand in for the idea of a majority and it serves to illustrate how ridiculous the fixation on "majority" is.Just sayin' not sayin, huh? Your accusations are totally unwarranted. Disagreement with you is not lying.
It's a misrepresentation. Evidently you have a natural talent for that.

Quote:
Are you qualified to assess mental illness in people you've never met? Or are you just listening to unethical "professionals" who confirm your biases?
Neither. I listen to professionals who have an ethical responsibility to alert the public to a mentally ill president. There you go again with misrepresentation.

Quote:
And beyond that: Do you think mentally ill people are bad people?
How the hell is that relevant?? Grasping at straws to find something/anything for a desperate rebuttal, huh? No, I don't think they're bad people. I just don't want one as my president. What's the matter, couldn't figure that one out on your own??

Quote:
Yes, they should. But he just had a heart attack so they probably don't want to excite him too much.Bernie's plan is pure naive fantasy. Much like AOCs "Green New Deal."
...that's the right wing indoctrination talking. Again.

Quote:
This is an uncalled for accusation. Just more well-poisoning...
No, it's quite accurate. Why does the well poisoner always accuse others of poisoning the well? Just curious.


Quote:
It's the NYT. I quoted enough to give you the gist. Kinda shatters the notion that conspiracy thought is unique to the GOP.
You do know the NYT has conservatives that write op-ed columns, don't you? And I don't see a cite that a majority of Democrats believe in any conspiracy. I provided the cites you kept pestering me for...Where are yours???.
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Old 18th October 2019, 08:52 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
In the last decade, it's mostly been about political violence, from the left.
That's hyperbole of the highest grade.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
When you think about it, the progressive political-technological complex is far more "uniquely" bad than mere birtherism.
Sounds like you had a minor crisis of political identity, but then came to the completely wrong solution.
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Old 18th October 2019, 09:20 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
In the last decade, it's mostly been about political violence, from the left.
A joke waiting for a punchline.

Quote:
That, and the emergence of a political-technological complex that is more about suppressing speech and controlling thought than about manufacturing weapons.
Oh wait, there it is.
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Old 18th October 2019, 11:36 AM   #172
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Just saw clips of Trump ridiculing Abraham Lincoln at the rally last night.
That is a danm good argument in support of this thread's proposition.
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Old 18th October 2019, 11:40 PM   #173
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Isn't this kind of obvious? I mean, Trump supporters just aren't real Americans. They aren't patriotic. They don't love their country like real Americans; they're just less than us. A Trump supporters is 3/5 of an American, a lesser class of person.
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Old 18th October 2019, 11:47 PM   #174
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Isn't this kind of obvious? I mean, Trump supporters just aren't real Americans. They aren't patriotic. They don't love their country like real Americans; they're just less than us. A Trump supporters is 3/5 of an American, a lesser class of person.
in terms of voting power, they are more like 5/3 citizens...
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Old 18th October 2019, 11:53 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
in terms of voting power, they are more like 5/3 citizens...
Only about 880000 of them in three states and they skewed older so, happily, some of them have died and are no longer infesting the country (as if their kind had value). If 2018 turnout is an indicator of what 2020 will look like, the survivors will be insignificant.
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Old 19th October 2019, 08:36 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Only about 880000 of them in three states and they skewed older so, happily, some of them have died and are no longer infesting the country (as if their kind had value). If 2018 turnout is an indicator of what 2020 will look like, the survivors will be insignificant.
Sorry that should have read 88,000.
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Old 19th October 2019, 02:38 PM   #177
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Mod Warning Knock it off with the personalisation, please.
Posted By:Agatha
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Old 24th October 2019, 06:01 AM   #178
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anyone who is historically literate knows that the modern GOP in both corruption and propensity for violence has deep roots in American history.

Look up the Business Plot, among other things.
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Old 26th October 2019, 01:14 AM   #179
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Page 5 and we are arguing Birtherism? WTF.

Throw out Birtherism completely.

We have a president who asserted that every US intelligence agency was wrong and he was right because he looked into Putin’s eyes when Putin said he was not involved.

who insisted that his son-in-law be given a security clearance after he repeatedly lied on the applications (and the mere fact that he was given several attempts is outrageous).

who regularly denies saying things he said in front of a bank of news cameras.


who lies so much that his handlers determined that letting him give testimony under oath would be the end of his political career.

The GOP gave him a pass on claiming the sound of windmills cause cancer.
They gave him a pass on drawing a line on a weather map in an effort to show that he had not made a mistake by including Alabama in a list of states. [let’s stop and think how bat **** crazy that is and how bizarre it is to pretend that that is normal behavior]

The GOP in Georgia decided it was perfectly appropriate for someone on the ballot to oversee the election!

The GOP has nominated and approved four judges who earned a not-qualified rating from the ABA.

The Ohio GOP struck tens of thousands of voters off the registration lists by finding everyone who hadn’t voted in the past two elections and sending them a postcard. If the card wasn’t returned, they were removed and did not know it until they showed up to vote. They did this knowing that there were other methods that were cheaper and more reliable.

The GOP has spent the past three years throwing people in front of microphones to explain that while President Trump said something outrageous, what he really meant was blah-blah-blah.

The GOP pretended everything was normal when President Trump was asked about bussing and he gave an answer that indicated that he thought the question was about how to transport children to school.

Emoluments

Calling the emoluments clause phony.

.......
Not all of these are good examples, but surely there is enough evidence to argue the proposition without belaboring a point about Birtherism.


ETA
deleted a number of items
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Old 26th October 2019, 11:50 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Page 5 and we are arguing Birtherism? WTF.

Throw out Birtherism completely.

We have a president who asserted that every US intelligence agency was wrong and he was right because he looked into Putinís eyes when Putin said he was not involved.

who insisted that his son-in-law be given a security clearance after he repeatedly lied on the applications (and the mere fact that he was given several attempts is outrageous).

who regularly denies saying things he said in front of a bank of news cameras.


who lies so much that his handlers determined that letting him give testimony under oath would be the end of his political career.

The GOP gave him a pass on claiming the sound of windmills cause cancer.
They gave him a pass on drawing a line on a weather map in an effort to show that he had not made a mistake by including Alabama in a list of states. [letís stop and think how bat **** crazy that is and how bizarre it is to pretend that that is normal behavior]

The GOP in Georgia decided it was perfectly appropriate for someone on the ballot to oversee the election!

The GOP has nominated and approved four judges who earned a not-qualified rating from the ABA.

The Ohio GOP struck tens of thousands of voters off the registration lists by finding everyone who hadnít voted in the past two elections and sending them a postcard. If the card wasnít returned, they were removed and did not know it until they showed up to vote. They did this knowing that there were other methods that were cheaper and more reliable.

The GOP has spent the past three years throwing people in front of microphones to explain that while President Trump said something outrageous, what he really meant was blah-blah-blah.

The GOP pretended everything was normal when President Trump was asked about bussing and he gave an answer that indicated that he thought the question was about how to transport children to school.

Emoluments

Calling the emoluments clause phony.

.......
Not all of these are good examples, but surely there is enough evidence to argue the proposition without belaboring a point about Birtherism.


ETA
deleted a number of items
Make that FIVE judges who were deemed "not qualified" by the ABA.
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Old 26th October 2019, 08:21 PM   #181
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A more overarching glance at the US...

A binary political system, readiness to polarization, politicization of the judiciary, a media machine dealing in an alternate reality, a political party dealing in an alternate reality, an electoral 'college' that's utterly irrelevant in the 21st century, big money in politics, the unhinged acceptance of a practically divine right to gun ownership, privatization of the prison system, a two-tier justice system, an accelerating wealth divide reminiscent of the 1920s, a political party engaged in outright electoral shenanigans.

The Ds and least claim to want to redress much of this this. The Rs want the status quo.

To keep this dangerous situation a-bubbling is to be unhinged.
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Old 27th October 2019, 01:21 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
A more overarching glance at the US...

A binary political system, readiness to polarization, politicization of the judiciary, a media machine dealing in an alternate reality, a political party dealing in an alternate reality, an electoral 'college' that's utterly irrelevant in the 21st century, big money in politics, the unhinged acceptance of a practically divine right to gun ownership, privatization of the prison system, a two-tier justice system, an accelerating wealth divide reminiscent of the 1920s, a political party engaged in outright electoral shenanigans.

The Ds and least claim to want to redress much of this this. The Rs want the status quo.

To keep this dangerous situation a-bubbling is to be unhinged.
Yes, and the end-game of Republicans is a dictatorship Russian-style democracy.
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Old 27th October 2019, 05:05 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
As an avid "Trumper" I find your lack of enthusiasm for our current POTUS disheartening.
Delete.
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Old 27th October 2019, 09:41 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Yes, and the end-game of Republicans is a dictatorship Russian-style democracy.

The end goal of Republicans is actually twofold: The majority want an oligarchy run by and for the benefit of old white men, and the return of slavery; most of the rest want a Dominionist Christian theocracy.
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Old 27th October 2019, 10:47 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
The end goal of Republicans is actually twofold: The majority want an oligarchy run by and for the benefit of old white men, and the return of slavery; most of the rest want a Dominionist Christian theocracy.
I really don't think this kind of hyperbole is useful.

It's despicable when the Republicans recast their political opponents as the enemy. It's equally despicable when the opposition does the same. A return to slavery. Jeez, Louise. They must sure be bad.
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Old 27th October 2019, 04:22 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I really don't think this kind of hyperbole is useful.

I was raised a Religious Right Republican. I've heard all the crap that goes on behind the scenes, that never made it in front of the news cameras. Want to take a guess at how many Republicans buy into the "Black people were better off under slavery than they were in Africa" canard?

Quote:
It's despicable when the Republicans recast their political opponents as the enemy. It's equally despicable when the opposition does the same. A return to slavery. Jeez, Louise. They must sure be bad.

You really don't have much understanding of American culture, do you. Do you remember ever reading about Jim Crow? Have you been paying attention to the efforts that the GOP has been making to suppress minority voters, to roll back civil rights under the guise of "religious freedom" legislation? Have you missed all the immigrants stuff in concentration camps, with their children stripped from them, then incarcerated into forced-labour camps aka "for-profit prisons", clearly echoing how slave traders treated African people back before the Civil War? Have you completely missed the "school-to-prison pipeline" that has been developed over the last fifty years, and the use of forced prison labour in a huge number of US industries? The use of draconian financial penalties and debtor legislation to ensure that poor minorities end up back in prison as soon as as they're released, effectively re-creating the "work house" of former eras?

The widening financial divide between the rich and poor, the fact that three people own more wealth than the bottom 50% of the country, the rapidly disappearing middle class, tax legislation that increasingly benefits the wealthy, the GOP's ongoing attempts to eliminate healthcare and social security programs, their constantly demonizing of anyone receiving any public assistance at all as lazy leeches and "welfare queens"? Their idolization of the sociopathic greed of Ayn Rand's Objectivist philosophy?

Maybe "slavery" is a bit of hyperbole, perhaps "feudalism" is a more appropriate description; but to me that's really a distinction without a practical difference at this point in time.

Stating it plain, clear terms may not be "useful" to reactionaries and their useful idiots; but euphemising and denying the bleeding obvious is certainly not useful for anyone seeking to make real social change.
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Old 27th October 2019, 05:03 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
I was raised a Religious Right Republican. I've heard all the crap that goes on behind the scenes, that never made it in front of the news cameras. Want to take a guess at how many Republicans buy into the "Black people were better off under slavery than they were in Africa" canard?




You really don't have much understanding of American culture, do you. Do you remember ever reading about Jim Crow? Have you been paying attention to the efforts that the GOP has been making to suppress minority voters, to roll back civil rights under the guise of "religious freedom" legislation? Have you missed all the immigrants stuff in concentration camps, with their children stripped from them, then incarcerated into forced-labour camps aka "for-profit prisons", clearly echoing how slave traders treated African people back before the Civil War? Have you completely missed the "school-to-prison pipeline" that has been developed over the last fifty years, and the use of forced prison labour in a huge number of US industries? The use of draconian financial penalties and debtor legislation to ensure that poor minorities end up back in prison as soon as as they're released, effectively re-creating the "work house" of former eras?

The widening financial divide between the rich and poor, the fact that three people own more wealth than the bottom 50% of the country, the rapidly disappearing middle class, tax legislation that increasingly benefits the wealthy, the GOP's ongoing attempts to eliminate healthcare and social security programs, their constantly demonizing of anyone receiving any public assistance at all as lazy leeches and "welfare queens"? Their idolization of the sociopathic greed of Ayn Rand's Objectivist philosophy?

Maybe "slavery" is a bit of hyperbole, perhaps "feudalism" is a more appropriate description; but to me that's really a distinction without a practical difference at this point in time.

Stating it plain, clear terms may not be "useful" to reactionaries and their useful idiots; but euphemising and denying the bleeding obvious is certainly not useful for anyone seeking to make real social change.
Yeah, I get that you're enlightened and ****, the only poster here raised in a religious right household (evidently my family doesn't count). You go ahead and speak truth to power and I'll continue under the presumption that the other side isn't literally evil for the most part.

Sorry you wasted your pearls on swine.
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Old 27th October 2019, 07:55 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I really don't think this kind of hyperbole is useful.
It isn't hyperbolic.
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Old 28th October 2019, 08:20 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Yeah, I get that you're enlightened and ****, the only poster here raised in a religious right household (evidently my family doesn't count). You go ahead and speak truth to power and I'll continue under the presumption that the other side isn't literally evil for the most part.

Sorry you wasted your pearls on swine.

Personal attacks are the resort of those who cannot address the actual points being made.
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Old 28th October 2019, 10:22 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Personal attacks are the resort of those who cannot address the actual points being made.
Your entire post was basically a personal attack. You managed to stay within the membership agreement by sufficiently expanding the target of that attack, but in substance how is that any different?

But let's make the criticism of your post itself a little more substantive. Your post is self-contradictory. You're positing people who are both religious fundamentalists and Ayn Rand devotees. These are separate groups, for the rather obvious reason that these ideas are incompatible. Rand's philosophy is inherently anti-religious. You cannot simultaneously be a Christian fundamentalist and a Randian Objectivist.
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Old 30th October 2019, 07:08 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Your entire post was basically a personal attack. You managed to stay within the membership agreement by sufficiently expanding the target of that attack, but in substance how is that any different?

But let's make the criticism of your post itself a little more substantive. Your post is self-contradictory. You're positing people who are both religious fundamentalists and Ayn Rand devotees. These are separate groups, for the rather obvious reason that these ideas are incompatible. Rand's philosophy is inherently anti-religious. You cannot simultaneously be a Christian fundamentalist and a Randian Objectivist.
I think you are over stating the exclusiveness of groupings within political parties. Despite his philandering, his lies, his corruption and his bigotry Trump still seems very popular with the evangelical wing of the GOP. By rights his performance should be incompatible with their beliefs and ideas. So a bit of hypocrisy by Rand followers or Christians with regard to the other POV within the GOP wouldn't be too surprising.
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Old 30th October 2019, 07:11 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
I think you are over stating the exclusiveness of groupings within political parties. Despite his philandering, his lies, his corruption and his bigotry Trump still seems very popular with the evangelical wing of the GOP. By rights his performance should be incompatible with their beliefs and ideas. So
Your own position isn't compatible with luchog's. To the extent that a group either tolerates deviation from their beliefs or doesn't even hold them genuinely to begin with, then luchog's description simply doesn't apply.
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Old 30th October 2019, 07:22 AM   #193
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Since neither Rand fanboys nor Evangelicals understand their own ideology, they have no problem conflating the two.
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Old 30th October 2019, 07:30 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Since neither Rand fanboys nor Evangelicals understand their own ideology, they have no problem conflating the two.
Now you're just making excuses for a bad argument.
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Old 30th October 2019, 07:51 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
I think you are over stating the exclusiveness of groupings within political parties. Despite his philandering, his lies, his corruption and his bigotry Trump still seems very popular with the evangelical wing of the GOP. By rights his performance should be incompatible with their beliefs and ideas. So a bit of hypocrisy by Rand followers or Christians with regard to the other POV within the GOP wouldn't be too surprising.

Evangelicals have a rather particular viewpoint which isn't quite ordinary hypocrisy. They believe that everyone is a sinner, but only evangelicals will be forgiven and saved. If they can convince themselves that Trump is an evangelical while Obama is a secret Muslim (or just a liberal, really), then behavior be damned, if God will forgive Trump but not Obama, then of course they should too.
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Old 30th October 2019, 07:54 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Yeah, I get that you're enlightened and ****, the only poster here raised in a religious right household (evidently my family doesn't count). You go ahead and speak truth to power and I'll continue under the presumption that the other side isn't literally evil for the most part.

Sorry you wasted your pearls on swine.
You are right. Slavery is probably hyperbolic (at least for poor whites). Serfdom is more correct.

As for the other side being "evil", I guess only from the perspective of a proponent of liberal Democracy. Conservatism as a movement was after all founded in order to perpetuate aristocratic rule as monarchies fell.
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Old 30th October 2019, 08:40 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
I think you are over stating the exclusiveness of groupings within political parties. Despite his philandering, his lies, his corruption and his bigotry Trump still seems very popular with the evangelical wing of the GOP. By rights his performance should be incompatible with their beliefs and ideas. So a bit of hypocrisy by Rand followers or Christians with regard to the other POV within the GOP wouldn't be too surprising.
At least the bigotry is a plus with them not a minus.
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Old 30th October 2019, 08:46 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
You are right. Slavery is probably hyperbolic (at least for poor whites). Serfdom is more correct.

As for the other side being "evil", I guess only from the perspective of a proponent of liberal Democracy. Conservatism as a movement was after all founded in order to perpetuate aristocratic rule as monarchies fell.
The long history of conservatism has little to do with contemporry US conservatives. You might as well say that the GOP is the party of minority rights since they rose with the election of Lincoln.

Let's not demonize one side of the political spectrum. It's totally fair to point out that they've accepted an amoral con man as their leader and they should be ashamed. It's another to say they all want slavery and/or theocracy.
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Old 30th October 2019, 08:50 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
The long history of conservatism has little to do with contemporry US conservatives. You might as well say that the GOP is the party of minority rights since they rose with the election of Lincoln.

Let's not demonize one side of the political spectrum. It's totally fair to point out that they've accepted an amoral con man as their leader and they should be ashamed. It's another to say they all want slavery and/or theocracy.
Um christian dominionism is pretty common in republican circles, so they certainly are not against theocracy.

Look at the state department for this in practice.
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Old 30th October 2019, 08:57 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Um christian dominionism is pretty common in republican circles, so they certainly are not against theocracy.

Look at the state department for this in practice.
Or the Head of the DOJ.
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