ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags 2020 elections , hillary clinton , presidential candidates , Russia conspiracies , Tulsi Gabbard

Reply
Old 18th October 2019, 10:13 PM   #81
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,402
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
"The threat I pose" she says. You can see that she is up to something by the fact that Trump has no nickname for her. Because she is the only one who can beat him with her left arm tied. And should be supported by everyone who wants the USA (not the Empire) go into a benevolent direction. Which includes me, Putin, Roger Waters and PewDiePie.
Um, no.

Someone getting less than 5% of the democratic vote is not going to be able to beat Trump.

The fact that 90% of the democratic party basically loathes her sort of matters here. The fact that most of the hatred is based on nonsense is irrelevant. Sorry. It's just how the world works.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:14 PM   #82
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
 
Travis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,019
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
And you empowered us to make judgements about your statements for a dozen of years.

Sorry but your judgement of me means less than nothing. I really don't care what Putin thinks.
__________________
"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
Zingiber Officinale

Travis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:14 PM   #83
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,402
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
she knew she could run as basically a Republican (she hates gays and loves dictators people!) and they would stand by her. In a way despicably brilliant.
You really believe she's running on hating gays?
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:15 PM   #84
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,255
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I've been saying Tulsi is a crazy Russian plant for months. Go look it up. And I'm on record as believing Stein was their 2016 spoiler. But Tulsi was going to be their real prize. As an actual Democrat they could get her onto the debate stages to spout crazy propaganda.


Which she has done! I mean did anyone watch the last debate?

Moderator: Do you support Medicare for all?

Tulsi: We need to stop endless regime change wars, specifically in Syria where all mighty master Assad and his glorious regime will bring peace to the people, also I was in the army.....all hail Assad!

Moderator: Let's move on to wacky friends!


Anyways, Tulsi seemed a dream come true, obviously corruptible and willing to spout nonsense and physically attractive enough to lure in thirsty dunceheads that would white knight for her in the message boards and comment sections. Kudos to Hillary for blowing up their plan by calling it out.
I don't doubt Tulsi's sincerity at all.

But she's starting to sound like Chomsky.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:18 PM   #85
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,585
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Um, no.

Someone getting less than 5% of the democratic vote is not going to be able to beat Trump.

The fact that 90% of the democratic party basically loathes her sort of matters here. The fact that most of the hatred is based on nonsense is irrelevant. Sorry. It's just how the world works.

That fact (taking you mean "Democratic" leadership) you mention is only relevant if foul play is involved again like in 2016. Which is likely. Tulsi's low ratings are because only people really into circus analysis even know her. Bernie endorsing her, which is what is his duty to do now, will change that. 1 one 1, Trump has no chance against her, while all the other folks, Pocahontas, Sleepy Joe, Crazy Bernie and that bad cop, will be crushed by him. I say that as someone in the very small camp who predicted Trump's victory.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 18th October 2019 at 10:30 PM. Reason: +Bernie angle
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:21 PM   #86
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,585
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Sorry but your judgement of me means less than nothing. I really don't care what Putin thinks.

I passed no judgement of you. It's confidential.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:25 PM   #87
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,040
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I've been saying Tulsi is a crazy Russian plant for months. Go look it up. And I'm on record as believing Stein was their 2016 spoiler. But Tulsi was going to be their real prize. As an actual Democrat they could get her onto the debate stages to spout crazy propaganda.
Have you worked Nader 2000 into your conspiracy theory yet?
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:30 PM   #88
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,402
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I don't doubt Tulsi's sincerity at all.

But she's starting to sound like Chomsky.
I love Chomsky. I would totally make him SoS in my Utopia.

Tulsi's actually kind of a warmongerer, just not in the regime-change sort of way. Like, she's moderately pro-torture when it comes to terrorists.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:32 PM   #89
Iamafalser
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 123
Hillary's delusional paranoia and inability to accept her own failure has finally gone full bloom. How long is the list of things she's blamed for her loss? Now she blurts out this ********.

Remember how she blamed her husband getting a blowjob on a vast right wing conspiracy? That was peanuts compared to this.

Bill and Chelsea need to do an intervention before she embarrasses herself and them even more.
Iamafalser is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:34 PM   #90
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,402
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
That fact (taking you mean "Democratic" leadership) you mention is only relevant if foul play is involved again like in 2016. Which is likely. Tulsi's low ratings are because only people really into circus analysis even know her. Bernie endorsing her, which is what is his duty to do now, will change that. 1 one 1, Trump has no chance against her, while all the other folks, Pocahontas, Sleepy Joe, Crazy Bernie and that bad cop, will be crushed by him. I say that as someone in the very small camp who predicted Trump's victory.
Democratic primary voters who know who she is don't like her. Those are the people really "into circus analysis".

Where in the world are you getting the highlighted from?
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:39 PM   #91
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,002
How badly do you want to get rid of Trump? Because if Gabbard gets nominated, I'll vote for her. I'd still prefer Williamson, though.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:41 PM   #92
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,585
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Tulsi's actually kind of a warmongerer, just not in the regime-change sort of way. Like, she's moderately pro-torture when it comes to terrorists.

First search result I found about this:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

These dreadlocked gentleman might have a point, but their guy will never get into the White House, while Tulsi has, I'm repeating myself, everything it takes to beat Trump, including and first of all reaching deep into the "right" with her experience of actual war.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 18th October 2019 at 10:44 PM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:43 PM   #93
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,585
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Democratic primary voters who know who she is don't like her.

Where in the world are you getting the highlighted from?

Did the primary votes start already?
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 18th October 2019 at 10:45 PM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:50 PM   #94
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,402
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Where in the world are you getting the highlighted from?

Did the primary votes started already?
There are only 4 months left.

She hangs out at around 1.5%.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:51 PM   #95
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,402
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
How badly do you want to get rid of Trump? Because if Gabbard gets nominated, I'll vote for her. I'd still prefer Williamson, though.
Why would you vote for Gabbard but not Bernie or Warren?
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:51 PM   #96
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,255
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I love Chomsky. I would totally make him SoS in my Utopia.

Tulsi's actually kind of a warmongerer, just not in the regime-change sort of way. Like, she's moderately pro-torture when it comes to terrorists.
If I was forced to give him a position, maybe not SoS but perhaps senior advisor (literally) to the president or on the council.

Tulsi's only against war with respect to her own country. She's seems okay with brushing aside the wars and dictatorial actions of foreign regimes and buying their talking points to that end.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:52 PM   #97
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,585
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Tulsi has, I'm repeating myself, everything it takes to beat Trump, including and first of all reaching deep into the "right" with her experience of actual war.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
How badly do you want to get rid of Trump? Because if Gabbard gets nominated, I'll vote for her. I'd still prefer Williamson, though.

See? Many of you have completely lost the plot due to the propaganda you are allowing to get into your brain. There is a large overlap in what "left" and "right" want, and the pre$$titutes don't share those goals as they receive fat money from the guys with fat money who rule the game. And the game is dividing the "normal" people into "left" and "right" while they have the same basic needs and goals except from some thigs that should be private.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:55 PM   #98
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,585
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
There are only 4 months left.

She hangs out at around 1.5%.

"Only" four months left before the first primary votes? Circus is an infant. It's on Bernie now. I said it months ago to quote a well-known pundit. Endorse Tulsi, old man, give her your machine and it will all go well.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 10:58 PM   #99
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,255
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
See? Many of you have completely lost the plot due to the propaganda you are allowing to get into your brain. There is a large overlap in what "left" and "right" want, and the pre$$titutes don't share those goals as they receive fat money from the guys with fat money who rule the game. And the game is dividing the "normal" people into "left" and "right" while they have the same basic needs and goals except from some thigs that should be private.
Bernie Sanders satisfies that more than enough. And he's top three, unlike Gabbard.

Who gives a **** that he helped Clinton against the Orange Idiot. Anyone who actually cared about the well-being of the United States would have. Sanders has been fighting for the people before Tulsi was born.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 11:02 PM   #100
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,402
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
If I was forced to give him a position, maybe not SoS but perhaps senior advisor (literally) to the president or on the council.

Tulsi's only against war with respect to her own country. She's seems okay with brushing aside the wars and dictatorial actions of foreign regimes and buying their talking points to that end.
True statements about geopolitics are always called Assad/Kremlin/etc "talking points" now. It's the new favorite way of hand-waving away easily verified facts. It's very annoying. LOL

Re: brushing aside wars and dictatorial actions, the US does that all the time with foreign countries as long as they're friendly to US corporations, Wall St, etc. We're cool with Saudi Arabia, stood by while the people in Bahrain were slaughtered, are fine with China (!!!), etc. The "human rights and democracy" cover for regime change is basically always a front for some other interest. If there are exceptions, I can't think of any, and they must be vanishingly rare.

We need to totally go back to the drawing board on foreign policy.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.

Last edited by kellyb; 18th October 2019 at 11:09 PM.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 11:09 PM   #101
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,255
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
True statements about geopolitics are always called Assad/Kremlin/etc "talking points" now. It's the new favorite way of hand-waving away easily verified facts. It's very annoying. LOL

Re: brushing aside wars and dictatorial actions, the US does that all the time with foreign countries as long as they're friendly to US corporations, Wall St, etc. We're cool with Saudi Arabia, stood by while the people in Bahrain were slaughtered, are fine with China (!!!), etc. The "humanitarian aid and democracy" cover for regime change is basically always a front for some other interest. If there are exceptions, I can't think of any, and they must be vanishingly rare.

We need to totally go back to the drawing board on foreign policy.
My point as I explained earlier is she needs to make clear the Syrian war wasn't just "terrorists vs the Assad government". That's what I'm talking about. You can be critical about your own nation's intervention without totally misrepresenting the facts. And of course it would go for everyone.

There are people here screaming for the same when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I just want to see it across the board. Part of that is not taking the talking points of the belligerents at face value.

I don't work for the government or defense contractors I stand by what I said.

Last edited by Venom; 18th October 2019 at 11:11 PM.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 11:12 PM   #102
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,585
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Bernie Sanders satisfies that more than enough. And he's top three, unlike Gabbard.

Who gives a **** that he helped Clinton against the Orange Idiot. Anyone who actually cared about the well-being of the United States would have. Sanders has been fighting for the people before Tulsi was born.

Bernie Sanders, and Sleepy Creepy Uncle Joe, are not fit for office. The one is senile and the other one fragile. Trump should be the record as to age of a president, and he'll be the only one who doesn't turn gray in the process. He's orange, while Tulsi turned gray already during the Iraq war.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 11:19 PM   #103
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,585
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
My point as I explained earlier is she needs to make clear the Syrian war wasn't just "terrorists vs the Assad government".

The "Syrian War" was western-sponsored jihadi gangs against the Syrian state from the beginnings in March 2011, including the use of "unknown" snipers shooting both sides. You can (and must as you are mouthing off falsehoods) check out the events of March 2011 here (and yes, there were legitimate protests against sufferings caused mostly by a two-years drought running parallel to the regime-change agitations).
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 11:28 PM   #104
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 18,995
Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...tion?_amp=true

Hillary Clinton said that Rep. Tulsi Gabbard is being groomed by Moscow to run as a third-party spoiler candidate in 2020 to help President Trump win reelection.

The former secretary of state pushed the theory on the Campaign HQ podcast hosted by David Plouffe, President Barack Obama’s campaign manager in 2008.
I rather thought that was obvious. Gabbard has been co-opted by the Vlady Manboobs and his GRU goon squad. Seems pretty clear.
__________________
A MAGA hat = a Swastika arm band. A vote for Trump is a vote for treason.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 11:30 PM   #105
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,402
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
My point as I explained earlier is she needs to make clear the Syrian war wasn't just "terrorists vs the Assad government". That's what I'm talking about. You can be critical about your own nation's intervention without totally misrepresenting the facts. And of course it would go for everyone.

There are people here screaming for the same when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I just want to see it across the board. Part of that is not taking the talking points of the belligerents at face value.
As far as I can tell, all of the armed, violent groups fighting in Syria are basically something like "terrorists". The peaceful protest movement in Syria which preceded the civil war was pretty immediately co-opted by jihadis of various sorts, many or most of whom were not even Syrian, and who were generally funded by the West to help topple Assad.

The media, including AL Jazeera, really did sort of bury what happened there, and mislead everyone about it. Here's an Aljazeera journalist who resigned over it explaining what happened from his POV:
https://therealnews.com/stories/ahashempt10319
Quote:
HASHEM: Actually, I can’t identify who’s really supplying the arms, but actually we saw armed men just crossing the river, the great northern river, which is the only, you know, natural barrier between Lebanon and Syria. They were just crossing that barrier and going into Syria, and then clashing with the Syrian Army. That was in May. And even something similar happened in April, but it wasn’t on camera.
Quote:
I just saw with my eyes, and it was in the beginning of the revolution, it was just, like, one month and a half from the revolution. And things were you know, I was seeing a lot of weapons, people with RPGs, people with Kalashnikovs, you know, just crossing from the borders. And they were not one or two; they were a big number; they were just dominating the whole village that we were on the borders with.
Quote:
You know. After, like, six or seven months, we started hearing about the Free Syrian Army, but at that time, we didn’t hear about anyone. It was just, like, you know, those are armed men just crossing the borders and fighting against al-Assad’s army. But it wasn’t clear who are they and are they backed by, who is giving them the weapons, who is really pushing them to do this and that.
And he explains that he resigned for Al Jazeera because they refused to cover it, or air the footage. He and the other journalists were supposed to pretend they didn't see what they saw. So they resigned as a matter of journalistic integrity.

Now, the US has admitted to a lot of it. They say it didn't start till 2012, but the reports coming from Syria (that I heard from the peaceful protesters themselves, in real time) at the time was that the armed and funded foreigners were flooding in by early 2011.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 11:30 PM   #106
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 18,995
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The "Syrian War" was western-sponsored jihadi gangs against the Syrian state from the beginnings in March 2011, including the use of "unknown" snipers shooting both sides. You can (and must as you are mouthing off falsehoods) check out the events of March 2011 here (and yes, there were legitimate protests against sufferings caused mostly by a two-years drought running parallel to the regime-change agitations).
Edited by Agatha:  Edited breach of rule 12
__________________
A MAGA hat = a Swastika arm band. A vote for Trump is a vote for treason.

Last edited by Agatha; 19th October 2019 at 01:44 PM.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 11:33 PM   #107
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,255
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The "Syrian War" was western-sponsored jihadi gangs against the Syrian state from the beginnings in March 2011, including the use of "unknown" snipers shooting both sides. You can (and must as you are mouthing off falsehoods) check out the events of March 2011 here (and yes, there were legitimate protests against sufferings caused mostly by a two-years drought running parallel to the regime-change agitations).
It's deflection. Those early skirmishes led to all-out war and vilification of the Western-backed particularly U.S. backed factions were simply used as an excuse to bomb all opposition areas as the war raged on. They milked that U.S. funded X....so we have the right to bomb X, Y, and Z! line for five years.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 11:36 PM   #108
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,255
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
As far as I can tell, all of the armed, violent groups fighting in Syria are basically something like "terrorists". The peaceful protest movement in Syria which preceded the civil war was pretty immediately co-opted by jihadis of various sorts, many or most of whom were not even Syrian, and who were generally funded by the West to help topple Assad.
[/url]
They are combatants, belligerents in a war, even if they are "Jihadis". And civilians don't count. They don't use any more terrorist tactics than the government does.

Terrorist has become a dead buzzword since Bush butchered it a decade and a half ago.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 11:38 PM   #109
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 13,478
Originally Posted by Gabbard
It’s now clear that this primary is between you and me. Don’t cowardly hide behind your proxies. Join the race directly.
That's seriously bizarre.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 11:41 PM   #110
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,402
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
It's deflection. Those early skirmishes led to all-out war and vilification of the Western-backed particularly U.S. backed factions were simply used as an excuse to bomb all opposition areas as the war raged on. They milked that U.S. funded X....so we have the right to bomb X, Y, and Z! line for five years.
Well, for a long, long time the US wasn't admitting they were funding the "rebels". The official line was that this was just a totally "organic", natural civil war.

And once you have jihadis taking over the cities and towns and turning into ACTUAL ISIS, with beheadings on the street corners..those guys do not calm down and do not let go. There's no peaceful way to restore order.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2019, 11:43 PM   #111
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,402
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
They are combatants, belligerents in a war, even if they are "Jihadis". And civilians don't count. They don't use any more terrorist tactics than the government does.

Terrorist has become a dead buzzword since Bush butchered it a decade and a half ago.
We need a better vocabulary for the ISIS-type "combatants," I guess.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2019, 02:04 AM   #112
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,299
Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
Hillary's delusional paranoia and inability to accept her own failure has finally gone full bloom. How long is the list of things she's blamed for her loss? Now she blurts out this ********.

Remember how she blamed her husband getting a blowjob on a vast right wing conspiracy?
I certainly recall her using the phrase to (accurately) describe the pipeline right-wing conspiracy theorists used to peddle various nonsense about her and Bill (ie. the Whitewater pointless conspiracy, the Vince Foster suicide, the so-called "murder list" of people they had mostly never met, and more recently Pizzagate and the like).

Quote:
That was peanuts compared to this.
It's been...kind of obvious. Dems, for what it's worth, want nothing at all to do with her by and large - and FWIW, the few endorsements she "attagirl"s she's picked up have thoroughly convinced me to avoid her like the clap. If I had to go for people polling under 2%, I'd go for Julian Castro long before her.

Quote:
Bill and Chelsea need to do an intervention before she embarrasses herself and them even more.
Nah, she's fine. She's entirely correct to say that she had quite a few outside forces working against her, including not only Russian trolls and bots, but also a last-minute intervention from Comey. Every time she was actually televised against Dolt 45, she mopped the floor with him and left him sputtering in a barely-coherent rage at some unimportant distraction. And yes, her "half" estimate of Dolt 45 supporters who were actively bigoted was, if anything, an underestimate. The purity nuts that made up a minority of Bernie supporters really did manage to shoot themselves in the foot in 2016 by ensuring far stronger voter suppression and a judiciary that's rabidly reactionary, often to the point of wanting to toss out Brown v. Board and the like. I'd applaud them if I didn't want to slap them instead.
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2019, 02:27 AM   #113
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,402
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
The purity nuts that made up a minority of Bernie supporters really did manage to shoot themselves in the foot in 2016
Why does everyone blame the "purity nuts" as opposed to the Obama to Trump voters?

The purity nuts who voted for Sanders in the primary are largely people who just wouldn't have voted at all in the primary sans Bernie's entry, and still wouldn't have voted for Clinton in the general.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2019, 02:49 AM   #114
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,299
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Why does everyone blame the "purity nuts" as opposed to the Obama to Trump voters?
Such people, in my experience, fall into two groups:

1: "I thought havin a black president would put an end to the racism talk, but then he said Trayvon could be his son!"

2: "C'mon, you really think a broad could be a good president?"

YMMV, of course, but neither group have much to do with what I'd like to see for the US. They can pound sand.

The actual progressives who sat 2016 out, OTOH, failed to understand that this is a long fight. It's not just "Bernie won! Everything's good!" These are the same people who sat out 2010 because Obama didn't fix everything in 2 years, and thus blew their chances for the next 6 years, at least.

Quote:
The purity nuts who voted for Sanders in the primary are largely people who just wouldn't have voted at all in the primary sans Bernie's entry, and still wouldn't have voted for Clinton in the general.
And that would still be wrong-headed.
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2019, 02:52 AM   #115
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 86,228
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Killary
Just stop.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2019, 02:54 AM   #116
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 86,228
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I don't like Tulsi very much, but just because CE likes her is no sing she's Moscow's Canidate.
Isn't it, though?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2019, 02:57 AM   #117
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 86,228
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
The elephant in the living room here is that Hillary wouldn't be saying any of this if Tulsi had endorsed her and not Sanders in 2015/2016.

Yes, it's that petty.

America, these are your ruling elites.
Maybe next she'll block a bridge or something.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2019, 03:13 AM   #118
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,402
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Such people, in my experience, fall into two groups:

1: "I thought havin a black president would put an end to the racism talk, but then he said Trayvon could be his son!"

2: "C'mon, you really think a broad could be a good president?"

YMMV, of course, but neither group have much to do with what I'd like to see for the US. They can pound sand.
I'm not sure that's what was up with them. I think the data indicates they just like change as opposed to the status quo.

See: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/03/u...mp-voting.html

Also:
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/...important.html
Quote:
A Pew Research Center study found that 18 percent of non-college-educated white votes who “leaned” Democratic in late December 2015 ended up identifying as Republican-leaning one year later. Which is to say: They switched parties only after the Republican Party nominated an idiosyncratic celebrity who promised to protect entitlements, deliver universal health care, pass a $1 trillion infrastructure stimulus, and restrict the freedom of corporations to move overseas.
Quote:
And, contra Milbank, health care may be a winning issue for Democrats with such voters. It’s true that 75 percent of Obama-Trump voters supported repealing the Affordable Care Act, according to CCES data. But Donald Trump — and most other Republicans — didn’t say that they wanted to replace Obamacare with a less generous, market-based program that would leave more people uninsured, because cutting taxes on the rich is more important than guaranteeing Americans affordable health care. Rather, they promised to deliver care that was cheaper, better, more “patient-centered,” and universally accessible than that which the Affordable Care Act had provided.

A recent NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll found that only 10 percent of Republicans wanted the GOP to replace Obamacare with a program that “does less.”
Quote:
Recent focus groups with Obama-to-Trump voters produced a similar finding: When these voters were informed that Trump was pushing a conventionally conservative Republican agenda, they became more skeptical about the authenticity of their populist champion.
They're economically leftwing. Voting Trump was akin to voting third party for them, it seems.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2019, 03:20 AM   #119
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,402
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
These are the same people who sat out 2010 because Obama didn't fix everything in 2 years, and thus blew their chances for the next 6 years, at least.
I think that's a misrepresentation of the people who turned on Obama by 2010.
People decided, rightly or wrongly, he wasn't even trying, and that his 2007/2008 campaign was a gimmick. It was an act.

This (from 2012) accurately reflects their perception:
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012...on-artist.html
Quote:
Jokes reveal truths, which is why the best way to appreciate the real Obama, not the fabled character of hope and change, is how he tells jokes. He’s good at, no, great at telling jokes. He kills at comedic performances, and his sense of timing is magnificent. Jokes, though, show how someone really sees the world, and the joke I’m thinking of is one he made during a speech in March 2009, when the revelations of AIG’s massive retention bonuses became public. It had been less than two months since Obama’s inauguration, but the major policy framework of the administration – the bailouts – had been laid down. The AIG bonus scandal was outrageous to the public, a symbol of tens of billions of taxpayer dollars being funneled to an arrogant corporation that had helped destroy the economy.

Barack Obama had stepped up to the lectern to deliver a stern rebuke to AIG executives who had taken bonuses with taxpayer money. Obama talked of the outrage of an irresponsible company, and how his administration would do everything within its power to get the money back. But a few minutes in, he coughed, slightly, choking a bit, as his mouth was a bit dry. But after he coughed, he stopped, and reflected on the gesture with a joke. “I’m choked, choked with anger”, he said. Obama chuckled. Reporters laughed. And it was funny, really funny. Because everyone in the room knew that Obama wasn’t actually angry about the AIG bonuses, and never intended to do anything about it. No one there was angry about the bonuses, and everyone knew nothing would happen to AIG executives. The House would pass bills, which would die in the Senate. The only people angry were Americans at large, who could not believe that their government worked for Wall Street. So the joke was funny, ironic, cool. But the moment wasn’t right for it, because this was a serious time for outrage – so Obama quickly reverted to form, and the teleprompter took over.

Pundits didn’t reflect on this “joke”. No one really noted it. It was very much like George Bush’s comment to reporters that was only later highlighted by Michael Moore, when Bush was on a golf course and perfunctorily said “we must find these terrorist killers….” and then turned to swing a golf club. “Now watch this drive.” Obama had risen to that level of duplicity, not a lie in the conventional sense of saying something that wasn’t true, but an entirely constructed false persona. He had polished the tools of the Presidency – the utter banality of PR, the constipated talking points, the routine abuse of power – and taken them to a new level with a self-aware sense of irony about his own narcissistic dishonesty. His challenge was so outrageous – I dare you to call me on what a liar I am as I joke about how much I am lying to you right now – that he turned an obnoxious bluff into art.

Obama had shown this breathtaking tendency to con people as they knew they were being conned before, the most public time during the campaign being his cynical answer when he was asked about his promise to renegotiate NAFTA. He had said, when fighting for union votes with Clinton, “I will make sure we renegotiate (NAFTA).” Even as he said this, it turns out that campaign advisor Austan Goolsbee had gone to Canada to assure them this was a lie (sure enough, Obama’s trade policies are identical to Bush’s, or worse). And once the election ended, and Obama was asked about his broken promise by a reporter, he gave the following answer.

Quote:
“This is fun for the press to try to stir up whatever quotes were generated during the course of the campaign,” President Obama said during his Transition in early December, when a reporter asked him about criticisms he and now-Secretary of State Clinton had made about each other’s foreign policy views.

“They’re your quotes, sir,” said the reporter, Peter Baker of the New York Times.

“No, I understand. And you’re having fun,” Obama continued. “And there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m not faulting it.”
This is cynicism as art. It’s literally a Presidential candidate running on hope and change saying that campaign promises are a joke and a ruse.

And during the health care reform debate, he was beyond dismissive of his former base:

https://www.npr.org/2016/01/22/46401...er-health-care
Quote:
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: My question is, why have they taken single-payer off the plate?

(APPLAUSE)

BARACK OBAMA: We got the little single-payer advocates up here.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.

Last edited by kellyb; 19th October 2019 at 03:28 AM.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2019, 04:12 AM   #120
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
 
Beerina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 29,709
Originally Posted by Belz...
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Killary
Just stop.
It's better than Hitlary.
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson

The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
Beerina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:36 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.