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Tags 2020 elections , hillary clinton , presidential candidates , Russia conspiracies , Tulsi Gabbard

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Old 20th October 2019, 03:45 AM   #161
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I thought this graphic was amusing. BTW, the number I saw on Warren was under 50%, which is just sad.
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Old 20th October 2019, 03:45 AM   #162
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Hmmm. Pot, kettle?
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Old 20th October 2019, 04:53 AM   #163
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I thought Trump wouldn't mention Gabbard because he was scared of her?
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Old 20th October 2019, 04:54 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I thought Trump wouldn't mention Gabbard because he was scared of her?

I know, right?
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Old 20th October 2019, 05:07 AM   #165
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Barron obviously reads this thread and informed daddy that he appears to be a bit scared of Tulsi.

Hi Barron!
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Old 20th October 2019, 05:57 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Barron obviously reads this thread and informed daddy that he appears to be a bit scared of Tulsi.

Hi Barron!
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Old 20th October 2019, 06:11 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by RoseMontague View Post
Gabbard predicted the current Syria mess back in Dec 2018....

https://twitter.com/tulsigabbard/sta...12984654946304
Turkey's actions are so predictable in this scenario that an actual turkey could have predicted it.
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Old 20th October 2019, 06:16 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by RoseMontague View Post
When asked if the former secretary of state was referring to Gabbard, Clinton spokesman Nick Merrill said, “If the nesting doll fits.”
“This is not some outlandish claim,” Merrill added. “This is reality.”

To me, this "nesting doll" sounds more like a hidden assen that being used as a tool. Maybe closer to a Manchurian Candidate.
Maybe she's sitting on a pile of kompromat that she just hasn't released yet.

Seriously, there are plenty of authoritarian leaning leftists who sympathise with Putin and other leaders of illiberal authoritarian states because they have a anti-establishment and often anti-western mindset. Russian's have been supporting these people in Europe for a long time to push a Russian friendly line and have often relied on previous connections from Soviet times.

It was only recently that Russia supporting anti-establishment right-wing and far-right groups in earnest.
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Old 20th October 2019, 07:45 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by RoseMontague View Post
When asked if the former secretary of state was referring to Gabbard, Clinton spokesman Nick Merrill said, “If the nesting doll fits.”
“This is not some outlandish claim,” Merrill added. “This is reality.”

To me, this "nesting doll" sounds more like a hidden assen that being used as a tool. Maybe closer to a Manchurian Candidate.
Ok, let's say a candidate is an unwitting target of Russian "support."

Is this how we respond? Sling mud at said candidate publicly?

Now rearrange the perspective in your mind. You are Russia. What can you do in response to this knee-jerk instinct to ostracize a candidate that you like.

See the problem?

/hypothetical
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Old 20th October 2019, 07:56 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Maybe she's sitting on a pile of kompromat that she just hasn't released yet.

Seriously, there are plenty of authoritarian leaning leftists who sympathise with Putin and other leaders of illiberal authoritarian states because they have a anti-establishment and often anti-western mindset. Russian's have been supporting these people in Europe for a long time to push a Russian friendly line and have often relied on previous connections from Soviet times.
Humanity's ability for self-deception is pretty amazing. How could someone NOT see that Russia's worse than the US in pretty much every imaginable way?
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Old 20th October 2019, 10:56 AM   #171
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Lat time I looked, Gabbard was polling around 2%. If she were a Russian asset, and this is the best that Russia can do with their chosen candidate, then Russia can't actually do much.
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:03 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Lat time I looked, Gabbard was polling around 2%. If she were a Russian asset, and this is the best that Russia can do with their chosen candidate, then Russia can't actually do much.
Can't hit a home run every at bat.
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:06 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Lat time I looked, Gabbard was polling around 2%. If she were a Russian asset, and this is the best that Russia can do with their chosen candidate, then Russia can't actually do much.
You think? Donald Trump would have lost the election in 2016 with a two point swing in just a few states.
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:09 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Lat time I looked, Gabbard was polling around 2%. If she were a Russian asset, and this is the best that Russia can do with their chosen candidate, then Russia can't actually do much.
They don't need to do much. If they have a handful of strategies and each tips the result by a percentage point or so, those add up to a tipped election.

Gabbard is polling pretty low among a wide field of democrats. If she runs as a third party, then the field is not so wide and the vote is not so split.

If she reads as an alternative to the official democratic candidate, who will be called a "socialist" whether its Warren or Sanders, then she grabs a chunk of centrist democrats. She's also GOP approved enough to soak up any Republican defectors who now dislike Trump feel a need to vote and are looking for an excuse not to vote for the actual Democratic candidate.

Again, an effect doesn't have to be massive to be part of a real spoiler. Plenty of states were carried by thin margins. Combine with some massive social media disinformation campaigns, some voter suppression and maybe a handful of actually hacked voting machines and there goes another election.
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:10 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You think? Donald Trump would have lost the election in 2016 with a two point swing in just a few states.
Let's suppose Gabbard is getting support from the Russians. If she didn't have support from the Russians, would she then be polling at 0%? No, she'd have some support regardless. So the Russians can't even move 2%. That's if we buy Hillary's theory.
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:16 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Let's suppose Gabbard is getting support from the Russians. If she didn't have support from the Russians, would she then be polling at 0%? No, she'd have some support regardless. So the Russians can't even move 2%. That's if we buy Hillary's theory.
maybe you should think in terms of amplification instead of just addition.
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:20 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Let's suppose Gabbard is getting support from the Russians. If she didn't have support from the Russians, would she then be polling at 0%? No, she'd have some support regardless. So the Russians can't even move 2%. That's if we buy Hillary's theory.
Huh?

I'm not sure if I buy Hillary's theory. That said, I dont trust Gabbard and I definitely don't trust that Russia isnt using any means possible to keep Putin's corrupt sleazy traitorous bitch in the Oval.
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:23 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Huh?

I'm not sure if I buy Hillary's theory. That said, I dont trust Gabbard and I definitely don't trust that Russia isnt using any means possible to keep Putin's corrupt sleazy traitorous bitch in the Oval.
Do you think Gabbard is intentionally helping Putin?
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:24 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Let's suppose Gabbard is getting support from the Russians. If she didn't have support from the Russians, would she then be polling at 0%? No, she'd have some support regardless. So the Russians can't even move 2%. That's if we buy Hillary's theory.
Hillary's theory isn't that they are trying to raise Gabbard's polling numbers. Hillary's theory is that Russians are encouraging a third party run where her current polling numbers would matter.
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:25 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
maybe you should think in terms of amplification instead of just addition.
I don't know what this means.
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:27 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Hillary's theory isn't that they are trying to raise Gabbard's polling numbers. Hillary's theory is that Russians are encouraging a third party run where her current polling numbers would matter.
This is the interesting part of the theory. By what mechanism is Putin encouraging Gabbard to consider a third party run?
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:28 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Do you think Gabbard is intentionally helping Putin?
No.
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:33 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by RoseMontague View Post
When asked if the former secretary of state was referring to Gabbard, Clinton spokesman Nick Merrill said, “If the nesting doll fits.”
“This is not some outlandish claim,” Merrill added. “This is reality.”

To me, this "nesting doll" sounds more like a hidden assen that being used as a tool. Maybe closer to a Manchurian Candidate.
The actual "Manchurian Candidate" was an American of apparently impeccable credentials, who was kidnapped and brainwashed into exploiting his position of trust to betray his country.

When you say Gabbard is "maybe closer to a Manchurian Candidate", how close do you mean?
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:35 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This is the interesting part of the theory. By what mechanism is Putin encouraging Gabbard to consider a third party run?
Huh? Why wouldn't they use all of them?
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:41 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Huh? Why wouldn't they use all of them?
Yes, but what are they?
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:42 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Huh? Why wouldn't they use all of them?
What are those mechanisms? Which ones are they using?
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:43 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Yes, but what are they?
Funnel money to her campaign, funnel money to the Draft Gabbard movement, run ads making her support look bigger than it actually is.

Now why did you need me to do this?
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Old 20th October 2019, 11:45 AM   #188
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I love how quickly this conversation has gone from, "Clinton probably has a point, in an Orwellian, 'objectively pro fascist' kind of way", to pulling conspiracy theories out of the ass entire.
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Old 20th October 2019, 12:11 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I love how quickly this conversation has gone from, "Clinton probably has a point, in an Orwellian, 'objectively pro fascist' kind of way", to pulling conspiracy theories out of the ass entire.
It's not a conspiracy theory that Russia committed substantial resources to steer the 2016 election. It's a conspiracy fact. To not be concerned that they will try to do it again is not crazy, it is in fact warranted.
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Old 20th October 2019, 12:19 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Funnel money to her campaign,
Is there any evidence that Putin is funneling money to the Gabbard campaign?

Which Gabbard donors would you say are the most likely Russian money launderers?

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Old 20th October 2019, 12:26 PM   #191
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Hillary leads so many so easily by the nose
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Old 20th October 2019, 12:39 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Hillary leads so many so easily by the nose
And what does Trump pull on?
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Old 20th October 2019, 12:50 PM   #193
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/u...rnKG2-si_pnmx8
Quote:
As she injects chaos into the 2020 Democratic primary by accusing her own party of “rigging” the election, an array of alt-right internet stars, white nationalists and Russians have praised her.
Check out the cast of characters that endorse her.
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Old 20th October 2019, 01:22 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yes, she lost because of our antiquated electoral system, not because more people voted for him that her. That she is 'worthless or uncharismatic" is your personal opinion and one I don't agree with. IMO, she lost because many fools believed the years of Republican propaganda about her.
Co-signed.

Imagine voting for the crime family patriarch with nothin g but empty slogans because the former Secretary of State, with detailed policy proposals and who sat through half-day questionings easily, was "too corrupt" and "had no plans".

Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
That's not what people were upset over.
It was stuff like this.

ETA:
Another example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA9KC8SMu3o

..and then he sided with...Scott Walker in WI:
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...hts-threatened
This is, certainly, what you were likely upset over - and I do agree that it's a substantial critique.

(I'd also argue that his biggest failures were organizational as far as progressive politics go - ironic for the guy that essentially built OFA - but that's for another time). But the overwhelming majority of people I saw on the "Obama broke all his promises, I'm not voting in 2010!" crowd were of the type I noted above - people who would have known far better had they merely read summaries of the debates.
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Old 20th October 2019, 01:48 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Funnel money to her campaign, funnel money to the Draft Gabbard movement, run ads making her support look bigger than it actually is.

Now why did you need me to do this?
Because I don't want to assume what your claim is, I want you to state it plainly.

Now that you have done so, do you have any evidence for it? How much money did the Russians funnel to her campaign, how did they do it in contravention of the law, etc.
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Old 20th October 2019, 01:57 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
.....
Imagine voting for the crime family patriarch with nothin g but empty slogans because the former Secretary of State, with detailed policy proposals and who sat through half-day questionings easily, was "too corrupt" and "had no plans".
.....
Without rehashing all of 2016, Clinton made a key mistake: The tone of her campaign was not only that she deserved to win, not only that she was entitled to win, but that she was guaranteed to win. That had two obvious effects that can really never be measured: 1/ A certain percentage of Hillary supporters in the blue states stayed home because they thought their votes weren't needed; and a certain percentage of people voted for Trump not because they really wanted him to be president, but because they wanted to throw a bomb against "the system," and felt secure that a Trump vote couldn't really do any harm.

Surprise!

And Trump's empty slogan was the oldest of all politicians' slogans: "If you elect me, I will make your life better!" What was Clinton's slogan? "I'm With Her." What an inspiration!

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Old 20th October 2019, 02:15 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It's not a conspiracy theory that Russia committed substantial resources to steer the 2016 election. It's a conspiracy fact. To not be concerned that they will try to do it again is not crazy, it is in fact warranted.
Saying Gabbard is a Russian asset and Putin probably has blackmail material over her, etc is way, way, way beyond just being worried about election interference in 2020.

Anyone of any prominence who wants to scale dial back the US foreign policy establishment's apparent desire for WWIII with Russia will be boosted/amplified by Russia. That doesn't make them "Russian assets" or mean they're "being groomed by Russia."
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Old 20th October 2019, 02:24 PM   #198
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Plus it should not be forgotten that the overarching strategy is to have so much nonsense flying around that it makes it hard to even find the truth at all, which encourages apathy.
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Old 20th October 2019, 02:29 PM   #199
kellyb
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Plus it should not be forgotten that the overarching strategy is to have so much nonsense flying around that it makes it hard to even find the truth at all, which encourages apathy.
Whose strategy? How do we know for sure this is anyone's strategy?
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Old 20th October 2019, 02:33 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Saying Gabbard is a Russian asset and Putin probably has blackmail material over her, etc is way, way, way beyond just being worried about election interference in 2020.

Anyone of any prominence who wants to scale dial back the US foreign policy establishment's apparent desire for WWIII with Russia will be boosted/amplified by Russia. That doesn't make them "Russian assets" or mean they're "being groomed by Russia."
It makes them Russia-Approved-Candidates™!
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