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Tags 2020 elections , hillary clinton , presidential candidates , Russia conspiracies , Tulsi Gabbard

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Old 21st October 2019, 03:15 AM   #241
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
By this kind of definition, even Hillary herself was/is an asset. Because she was the perfect candidate against Trump, helping devide the country, being one of the elites etc.
no, an asset by ma definition is someone who you want to support in their efforts.
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Old 21st October 2019, 03:21 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
no, an asset by ma definition is someone who you want to support in their efforts.
If they're super-geniuses playing 4860368-dimensional-chess, maybe they knew she'd lose (she really was the second least popular candidate in history) and knew she'd do divisive stuff after the election to help further rip the country apart.

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Old 21st October 2019, 03:55 AM   #243
Darat
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
That definition is way to narrow in my opinion. It doesn't reflect the hybrid warfare Russia is engaged in.

An asset doesn't need to be a source of information to be useful - they might also be in a position to be of service.
Trump's ability to launder money made him an asset, not his incredible knowledge of state secrets.
Or simply be someone who a foreign power believes will help the foreign power. So it could be, for example a media owner who pushes a isolationist agenda into her media outlets.

ETA but I do think the asset has to have some benefit from the foreign power. So in my example the media owner may be granted the right to open an outlet in the foreign power. I suspect many such assets don't even realise they are in fact assets.
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Old 21st October 2019, 04:00 AM   #244
The Great Zaganza
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horseshoe theory of geopolitics...
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Old 21st October 2019, 04:21 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Or simply be someone who a foreign power believes will help the foreign power. So it could be, for example a media owner who pushes a isolationist agenda into her media outlets.

ETA but I do think the asset has to have some benefit from the foreign power. So in my example the media owner may be granted the right to open an outlet in the foreign power. I suspect many such assets don't even realise they are in fact assets.
Please provide a link to the definition of the word "asset" from a reliable source as used in the above post.
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Old 21st October 2019, 05:31 AM   #246
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Looks to me like kellyb is correct that "Russian asset" is not the correct phrase to describe this. BTW I haven't seen that Clinton used that phrase. Did she?
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Old 21st October 2019, 05:35 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Please provide a link to the definition of the word "asset" from a reliable source as used in the above post.
er....
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Old 21st October 2019, 08:01 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I'm not convinced the Russians deployed a strategy "to have so much nonsense flying around that it makes it hard to even find the truth at all, which encourages apathy".

Maybe they did. I know there's some KGB bigwig, like the Russia's version of Henry Kissinger, who wrote some fictional, futuristic, dystopian novel where intelligence agencies did something like that as part of the plot, and everyone found that in 2016, and then looked at the nonsense that the IRA was spitting out, and it seemed to sort of fit the model.

This is the guy, and the book (if I'm remembering correctly):
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...adislav-surkov




And a second dystopian novel, same author:
https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2014/march/non-linear-war


Another article on all of that:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017...mlins-playbook


I'm not sure how much that explains 2016, tho. I kinda suspect most of our disinfo websites, agents, bots and troll might be homegrown. A lot of this stuff is what I would do if I were some mastermind at the Heritage Foundation, or some other (probably lesser known) diabolical rightwing think tank.
I haven't even seen anyone rule out the use of proxies with this stuff, either.

I do believe "the intelligence community" that a lot of "it" was Russian, tho. But I'm not sure the "it" coming from Russia was the shotgun blast of chaos to just flip reality on it's head with a barrage of nonfactual gibberish. The IRA doing basic for-profit clickbaiting for ad revenue and sales BS seems to be a larger motive with the nonsensical stuff.
I'll slice this two ways.

1) Would the Russian government go purchasing underlying analytics data from the Kremlin Intel services slush fund or would it be useful to obfuscate it with a shell company or three?

2) Why is the Russian government trying to make money in the clickbait article industry? The best companies out there make very little at it and that's without also having a massive staff of people 24/7/365 just trolling social media...in the same building...in oddly compartmentalized units...

Basically any attempt to explain a single element of IRA as normal or having parallels elsewhere starts to unravel when you plug it back into the totality of the operation.
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Old 21st October 2019, 08:14 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I'm not sure you count as a reliable linguistic source, Darat. Sorry to say.
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Old 21st October 2019, 08:58 AM   #250
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I'm confused. Are we arguing about whether Hillary Clinton meant that Gabbard is an intentional co-conspirator in a Russian plot - meeting with Russian agents, coordinating with them on plans of action, etc?

Or are we arguing about whether Gabbard really is an intentional co-conspirator in a Russian plot?
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Old 21st October 2019, 09:05 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm confused. Are we arguing about whether Hillary Clinton meant that Gabbard is an intentional co-conspirator in a Russian plot - meeting with Russian agents, coordinating with them on plans of action, etc?

Or are we arguing about whether Gabbard really is an intentional co-conspirator in a Russian plot?
The two aren't mutually-exclusive. Discussion of one naturally will lead to discussion about the other, regardless.
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Old 21st October 2019, 09:08 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
She's polling at 1% among democratic primary voters. I don't really see how she is going to be viable as a 3rd party spoiler when she doesn't really have much support from Democratic voters.
did she actually say she's running, she would tank any chance the Dems might have otherwise had. Gawd, she sucks.
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Old 21st October 2019, 09:09 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
she does if you believe the twitter bots and RT reports.
And the Media was sooooooo accurate last election....
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Old 21st October 2019, 09:11 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
The last election was extremely close, and the republicans won by only a few thousand votes in a few key states. If we get a repeat of the 2016 election, then marginal votes like that may be important.

Remember, Nader polled with under 3% in 2000, and many democrats think that had he not run, his voters would have shifted to the Democrats and they might have won Florida (and thus the presidency).
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove breach of rule 12
Hillary has no chance, and has no business trying again, leave the woman to her highly illegal toilet server and her conspiracy nonsense. It's DONE.

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Old 21st October 2019, 09:12 AM   #255
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
And the Media was sooooooo accurate last election....
About Russian Twitter bots?
Yes, it was.
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Old 21st October 2019, 09:13 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
And killing people! What a hypocrite!

Out of the hundreds if not thousands of friends and associates it's amazing how many of these folks are dying suddenly or getting shot in a country with only 300M+ firearms and 500 billion cheeseburgers.
Bengazi...
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Old 21st October 2019, 09:14 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
About Russian Twitter bots?
Yes, it was.
No, about her electability, so you are wrong. Liberal and wrong. With sad devotion to a Toilet Server afficionado
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Old 21st October 2019, 09:15 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Or simply be someone who a foreign power believes will help the foreign power. So it could be, for example a media owner who pushes a isolationist agenda into her media outlets.

ETA but I do think the asset has to have some benefit from the foreign power. So in my example the media owner may be granted the right to open an outlet in the foreign power. I suspect many such assets don't even realise they are in fact assets.
Her owning a toilet server is beneficial to no one.
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Old 21st October 2019, 09:23 AM   #259
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
No, about her electability, so you are wrong. Liberal and wrong. With sad devotion to a Toilet Server afficionado
To be fair, it was hard to take Trump seriously.

Still is
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Old 21st October 2019, 09:25 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
To be fair, it was hard to take Trump seriously.

Still is
but... instead of alien toilet server hag, we have mullet wearin gopher looking guy, so yeah.
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Old 21st October 2019, 09:29 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
The two aren't mutually-exclusive. Discussion of one naturally will lead to discussion about the other, regardless.
Of course they're not mutually exclusive.

But I'm not interested in what's possible. I'm interested in trying to figure out what's actually being argued. Are there people in this thread actually arguing the possibility that Gabbard is an intentional co-conspirator in a Russian plot?

Are there people in this thread actually arguing the possibility that Clinton thinks that's what Gabbard is up to?
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Old 21st October 2019, 09:29 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
No, about her electability, so you are wrong. Liberal and wrong. With sad devotion to a Toilet Server afficionado
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove breach of rule 12
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Old 21st October 2019, 10:02 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Being
1) a Russian "asset," and
2) currently being a good, faithful, loyal US soldier

...are very much mutually exclusive categories.
I don't think so. I'm not talking Gabbard specifically. People are complicated - we're not always just one thing. I'm not caught up on this thread and haven't really formed an opinion, but I don't automatically believe that being a good soldier for one country means you can't be sympathetic to another country, especially when the 2 countries are not currently sworn enemies.
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Old 21st October 2019, 10:23 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Speaking of wrong, you keep repeating demonstrated lies, so what does that make you?
there was a proven toilet server, the deniers of this are the ones who lie. The woman was never electable, and does in fact look like an alien.
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove breach of rule 12

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Old 21st October 2019, 10:26 AM   #265
The Great Zaganza
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Trump's State Department just pronounced that Clinton did nothing wrong in her handling of classified emails.
That's something all the media got wrong in 2016.
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Old 21st October 2019, 10:27 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
there was a proven toilet server
Prove it.

Quote:
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove breach of rule 12
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove response to breach
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Old 21st October 2019, 10:33 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to conform with moderated post
Its been proven,
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove breach of rule 12
. There's Bengazi to....

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Old 21st October 2019, 10:33 AM   #268
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Remember the lesson about "electability", kids!

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Old 21st October 2019, 10:34 AM   #269
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Speaking of Russian trolls...
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Old 21st October 2019, 10:47 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
there was a proven toilet server, the deniers of this are the ones who lie. The woman was never electable, and does in fact look like an alien.
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove breach of rule 12
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove breach of rule 12


I give you exhibit A just how conspiracy nuts the Republican party has become. All they want to talk about is Hillary's emails. They are so focused on the total of absence of incriminating evidence on Hillary, that they feel they must ignore the mountain of incriminating evidence against Trump.

Do they really think the world will ignore the massive corruption of this White House by pointing to Hillary's emails and Ben Ghazzi?

Is it stupidity? Or just delusional?
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Old 21st October 2019, 10:50 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to conform with moderated post


I give you exhibit A just how conspiracy nuts the Republican party has become. All they want to talk about is Hillary's emails. They are so focused on the total of absence of incriminating evidence on Hillary, that they feel they must ignore the mountain of incriminating evidence against Trump.

Do they really think the world will ignore the massive corruption of this White House by pointing to Hillary's emails and Ben Ghazzi?

Is it stupidity? Or just delusional?
Pure, unfiltered tribalism on display. At least one of our resident conservatives has told him to slow his roll. I think even TBD would be telling him to tone it down.
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Old 21st October 2019, 10:50 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Is it stupidity? Or just delusional?
Or trolling.

Why would I be a Hillary supporter? I don't like her particularily, and I'm not even American, nor am I particularily left-leaning. It doesn't change the fact that she was the best candidate for the 2016 elections, including all parties, despite all that.
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Old 21st October 2019, 10:52 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to conform with moderated post


I give you exhibit A just how conspiracy nuts the Republican party has become. All they want to talk about is Hillary's emails. They are so focused on the total of absence of incriminating evidence on Hillary, that they feel they must ignore the mountain of incriminating evidence against Trump.

Do they really think the world will ignore the massive corruption of this White House by pointing to Hillary's emails and Ben Ghazzi?

Is it stupidity? Or just delusional?
I'm thinking broad brush, actually.

Last edited by Agatha; 21st October 2019 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 21st October 2019, 10:56 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
He did that on his own. He wasn't particularily electable either, given that he lost the primaries to her, even discounting the superdelegates.
Of what? Of agreeing with her politics?
You claim to want something better, but vote for the Toilet Server Haver, a tool of the status quo of things, and yes her campaign screwed his.

SHe also sees Russian Assets under her bed. Pathetic.
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove breach of rule 12

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Old 21st October 2019, 10:57 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Your devotion is sad, and I never got to feel the Bern because she tanked his campaign. Any who still support her should be ashamed.
oh my.
Bernie Bro and bust.
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Old 21st October 2019, 10:59 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
You claim to want something better
I do? Where did I claim that?

Geez, you can't even tell us apart. I'm the one with the demon avatar.

Quote:
but vote for the Toilet Server Haver
What part of "I don't like her" and "I'm not an American" didn't register with you?

Quote:
a tool of the status quo of things
You don't even know me.

Quote:
SHe also sees Russian Assets under her bed.
Sure, I can't disagree with that one.

Quote:
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove breach of rule 12
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove response to same
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Old 21st October 2019, 11:15 AM   #277
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A Canadian who claims Killary supporters are "left-leaning". I don't buy it.
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Old 21st October 2019, 12:06 PM   #278
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Trump is defending Gabbard. Talk about the kiss of death...
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Old 21st October 2019, 12:22 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Not to my knowledge but to be honest I don't know much about her beyond her political run in 2016 and under Obama. For all I know she's a weightlifting champion.
.....
And you're where? Or are you just joshing? You get that Hillary Clinton was Bill's First Lady for his eight years in the White House, and was twice elected U.S. Senator from New York, right?
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Old 21st October 2019, 12:29 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
oh my.
Bernie Bro and bust.
If memory serves, TBD use to say that he was a Bernie Bro too.
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