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Tags California politics , Katie Hill , politics scandals , sex scandals

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Old 28th October 2019, 05:17 PM   #41
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Could be because neo-Nazis don't generally tend to be well-educated, intelligent people.
More likely because iconography doesn't hew to a rigid formal taxonomy.
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Old 28th October 2019, 08:14 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No, she doesn't have to explain. It's a private tattoo, the public was never supposed to see it. She doesn't owe anyone an explanation for that.
Wrong. She's a public figure and -- until today -- a public official whose success depends on the image she presents to the public. Once something that she intended to keep private is known publicly, the public is entitled to ask questions and demand answers. Suppose the tattoo had been an actual swastika; is that still nobody's business? Suppose she had sent a "private" email to somebody saying something like "I can't tell you how much I hate [insert ethnic slur here]! I'd kill'em all if I could!" Still private? Nobody's business? Once we know something, we can't unknow it.
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Old 28th October 2019, 08:29 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Wrong. She's a public figure and -- until today -- a public official whose success depends on the image she presents to the public. Once something that she intended to keep private is known publicly, the public is entitled to ask questions and demand answers. Suppose the tattoo had been an actual swastika; is that still nobody's business? Suppose she had sent a "private" email to somebody saying something like "I can't tell you how much I hate [insert ethnic slur here]! I'd kill'em all if I could!" Still private? Nobody's business? Once we know something, we can't unknow it.
No, I disagree. The public has a right to ask anything. Whether she has a duty to answer about anything is another matter.
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Old 28th October 2019, 08:44 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
No, I disagree. The public has a right to ask anything. Whether she has a duty to answer about anything is another matter.
Sure, she doesn't have any legal obligation. But if she expects to win votes or gain support for anything she might do, she better not let people think she's a Nazi or a racist. Q: "Are you a Nazi?" A: "None of your damn business!" won't take her far. The public is entitled to judge her by her answers.

Last edited by Bob001; 28th October 2019 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 28th October 2019, 08:48 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Sure, she doesn't have any legal obligation. But if she expects to win votes or gain support for anything she might do, she better not let people think she's a Nazi or a racist. Q: "Are you a Nazi?" A: "None of your damn business!" won't take her far. The public is entitled to judge her by her answers.
I agree. But that is true about any question. Considering she just resigned, the question is kind of moot for the foreseeable future.
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Old 28th October 2019, 09:29 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Sure, she doesn't have any legal obligation. But if she expects to win votes or gain support for anything she might do, she better not let people think she's a Nazi or a racist. Q: "Are you a Nazi?" A: "None of your damn business!" won't take her far. The public is entitled to judge her by her answers.
But the question wasn’t whether or not she’s a Nazi, but what that tattoo meant. Even politicians deserve some privacy. When you’re ******* someone of the Congressional payroll, that’s not just your business anymore. A tattoo on a part of your body you don’t expose in public is still private.
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Old 28th October 2019, 10:30 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
More likely because iconography doesn't hew to a rigid formal taxonomy.
Or they're just ignorant.
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Old 28th October 2019, 10:38 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
....
A tattoo on a part of your body you don’t expose in public is still private.
Once it's been exposed it stops being private. Again, if it had been an actual swastika, would we say "Ah, that's private. We'll pretend we never saw it."

She -- and we -- are lucky she didn't choose one of these.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...ls-and-tattoos
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Old 28th October 2019, 11:07 PM   #49
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Revenge porn is bad!

Now, what’s wrong with having sex with a staffer?
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Old 29th October 2019, 03:23 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Its also very similar to the Maltese Cross, and the Crux Pattee, the symbol of the Knights Templar.

The Iron Cross dates back to the early 19th century, to the time of King Friedrich Wilhelm III of Prussia. Even if her tattoo is an iron cross, it is not the Nazi symbol unless is has a swastika at a 45° angle in the centre.
But it may be a white supremacist symbol, they love appropriating such things see the recent change in the OK hand gesture.
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Old 29th October 2019, 03:26 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Revenge porn is bad!

Now, what’s wrong with having sex with a staffer?
Having sex with an employee is problematic because of power imbalances like a professor having sex with a student. So improper and if pursued in certain ways illegal(see sexual harassment). But not as fundamentally wrong in all instances as revenge porn.
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Old 29th October 2019, 06:34 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Once again, i ask why does anybody need to put naked pix of themselves on their phones and send them to others, who can send them on and on and on forever? At least film prints and negatives could be kept locked up and destroyed if necessary. For the rest of her life, no matter what she does, these silly pictures will haunt her. How could a moment's fun be worth it?
The answer is : **** you, they are consenting adults in their own bedroom. It is none of our business what kink any of them are into, so long as everyone was a willing participant.*


*the fact that one of the participants was a staffer is problematic in another way, but that has nothing to do with the revenge porn.
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Old 29th October 2019, 06:51 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
The answer is : **** you, they are consenting adults in their own bedroom. It is none of our business what kink any of them are into, so long as everyone was a willing participant.*


*the fact that one of the participants was a staffer is problematic in another way, but that has nothing to do with the revenge porn.
Yeah, I echo this as well. As long as no one is forced to do anything, everyone is consenting, and from all the video\pictures I've seen, everyone was all smiles. Hopefully we find that to be the truth throughout.

Campaign funds and other sketchy behavior deserves ridicule, but who she dicks and vice versa is completely her business.
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Old 29th October 2019, 07:29 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
The answer is : **** you, they are consenting adults in their own bedroom. It is none of our business what kink any of them are into, so long as everyone was a willing participant.*

*the fact that one of the participants was a staffer is problematic in another way, but that has nothing to do with the revenge porn.
The issue isn't what anybody does in their bedroom. The issue is being dumb enough to document it in a way the whole world can see forever -- and use it to hurt you.

And their are rules about how congresspersons treat their staffs, and actual laws about how campaign money can be spent.

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Old 29th October 2019, 07:33 AM   #55
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It only hurts because people can't mind their own business and want to shame a woman who was enjoying sex.

Has the ex-husband been arrested?
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Old 29th October 2019, 07:43 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
It only hurts because people can't mind their own business and want to shame a woman who was enjoying sex.

Has the ex-husband been arrested?

The person who has to be worried about getting arrested is the representative who misappropriated campaign money.

Like this guy:
Quote:
SAN DIEGO — Rep. Duncan Hunter won’t go on trial until next year on corruption charges that involve the spending of campaign cash on vacations, extramarital affairs and other items, a U.S. judge decided Tuesday.
.....
He and his wife were indicted a year ago after authorities said they used more than $250,000 in campaign funds for personal expenses ranging from groceries to golf trips and family vacations.

Prosecutors also say Hunter spent campaign money on extramarital affairs.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...d-back-1461344
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Old 29th October 2019, 07:53 AM   #57
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Duncan Hunter is still in Congress, so I am not sure what you are trying to say. Also, he did waaaaaay worse than having one affair with one staffer. He was messing around with lobbyists and "consultants" as well. That opens quite a few more boxes.

Revenge porn is illegal. So, the ex-husband can be arrested.
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Old 29th October 2019, 08:14 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Duncan Hunter is still in Congress, so I am not sure what you are trying to say. Also, he did waaaaaay worse than having one affair with one staffer. He was messing around with lobbyists and "consultants" as well. That opens quite a few more boxes.

Revenge porn is illegal. So, the ex-husband can be arrested.

Sure, Hunter's worse. And Hill's hubby should be arrested. But she is (or was) a public official misusing funds and doing stupid stuff. This isn't over for her.
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Old 29th October 2019, 08:29 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The issue isn't what anybody does in their bedroom. The issue is being dumb enough to document it in a way the whole world can see forever -- and use it to hurt you.

And their are rules about how congresspersons treat their staffs, and actual laws about how campaign money can be spent.
Bah like they matter, see Stormy Daniels.
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Old 29th October 2019, 08:37 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Sure, Hunter's worse. And Hill's hubby should be arrested. But she is (or was) a public official misusing funds and doing stupid stuff. This isn't over for her.
Has anyone said otherwise, other than a few Twitter accounts? I think it is safe to say we all agree that, at the very least, it is wrong to have a relationship with a subordinate. Hill resigned and may face disciplinary action for that. Do we really have to add that qualifier every time? Its going to be like a really lame version of the RIGBY bit from Silicon Valley.
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Old 29th October 2019, 09:14 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Or they're just ignorant.
I'm sure some of them are. But I think you're oversimplifying.
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Old 29th October 2019, 10:12 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
The answer is : **** you, they are consenting adults in their own bedroom. It is none of our business what kink any of them are into, so long as everyone was a willing participant.*


*the fact that one of the participants was a staffer is problematic in another way, but that has nothing to do with the revenge porn.
The House of Representatives apparently passed new rules of conduct, prohibiting sexual relationships with staffers. And according to this article, it wasn't the past "throuple" relationship that led Pelosi to demand her resignation:

Quote:
Radio host Joe Messina reported on his Monday program “The Real Side,” that Hill’s resignation was demanded by Pelosi after the speaker learned that staffers in Hill’s office confirmed her affair with Legislative Director Graham Kelly. The staffers reportedly acknowledged the affair to the House Ethics Committee, which opened an investigation into the allegations.
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Old 29th October 2019, 03:34 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Having sex with an employee is problematic because of power imbalances like a professor having sex with a student. So improper and if pursued in certain ways illegal(see sexual harassment). But not as fundamentally wrong in all instances as revenge porn.
Sex with an employee is potentially wrong for the reasons you give, but not intrinsically wrong, imho.
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Old 29th October 2019, 03:37 PM   #64
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If only she was a male Republican! She could be on the Supreme Court!
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Old 29th October 2019, 03:49 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Eh. I don't believe hers is a Nazi symbol. But I bet there are a lot of neo Nazis who display it without the swastika.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Could be because neo-Nazis don't generally tend to be well-educated, intelligent people.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
More likely because iconography doesn't hew to a rigid formal taxonomy.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Or they're just ignorant.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm sure some of them are. But I think you're oversimplifying.
Nope. I don't think it's 'over-simplifying' it when I say neo-Nazis don't generally tend to be well-educated, intelligent people and that they're ignorant. Or do you want to claim that, generally, neo-Nazis are well-educated, intelligent and informed?
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Old 29th October 2019, 03:58 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
The answer is : **** you, they are consenting adults in their own bedroom. It is none of our business what kink any of them are into, so long as everyone was a willing participant.*


*the fact that one of the participants was a staffer is problematic in another way, but that has nothing to do with the revenge porn.
I don't think anyone here, and certainly not I, is claiming what two (or more) consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is the problem. I couldn't care less what people do as long as it's consensual. But taking pics or video of sexual interactions is not a very smart thing to do, especially if one has political aspirations. History has shown us very clearly how they can be, and are, used against a person by people like angry exes, political opponents and just plain jerks who want to make money one them.
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Old 29th October 2019, 04:07 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I don't think anyone here, and certainly not I, is claiming what two (or more) consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is the problem. I couldn't care less what people do as long as it's consensual. But taking pics or video of sexual interactions is not a very smart thing to do, especially if one has political aspirations. History has shown us very clearly how they can be, and are, used against a person by people like angry exes, political opponents and just plain jerks who want to make money one them.
I think you may as well claim that people should stop having sex. What if one of your exes goes on reddit and describes all your sexual proclivities in the most minute detail?

I think it won’t be that long before people will have secretly recorded video of them taking a dump and posted on the internet to “discredit” them.

The thing that the rest of us should do is not buy into it. Don’t seek out sex videos or nude pictures of people that have been leaked. To do so is, in my opinion, no different to peering into a hole cut in the ladies changing room that someone else has made.

This whole story is pretty much a case of slut-shaming.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 29th October 2019, 04:27 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I think you may as well claim that people should stop having sex. What if one of your exes goes on reddit and describes all your sexual proclivities in the most minute detail?

I think it won’t be that long before people will have secretly recorded video of them taking a dump and posted on the internet to “discredit” them.

The thing that the rest of us should do is not buy into it. Don’t seek out sex videos or nude pictures of people that have been leaked. To do so is, in my opinion, no different to peering into a hole cut in the ladies changing room that someone else has made.

This whole story is pretty much a case of slut-shaming.
That I may as well claim people should stop having sex is about as far a stretch from my point as you could make.

What I said is that taking pics or videos of it is not a very smart thing to do. How many more cases of these things being released to the public via the internet/tabloids does someone need to see before they can figure that out?

I'm not slut shaming her at all. I don't care that she had a ménage à trois. I'm saying that it's a bad idea for ANYBODY to take pictures or video of their sexual encounters because they can be used against them in order to slut shame them. There is case after case after case of this happening is. Why people don't learn this is beyond me.
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Old 29th October 2019, 04:34 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post

What I said is that taking pics or videos of it is not a very smart thing to do.
But maybe you want to see video or pictures of you naked or having sex.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 29th October 2019, 05:13 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
But maybe you want to see video or pictures of you naked or having sex.
Oh, good lord. What we may WANT and what is a SMART CHOICE can be two completely different things. I WANT to walk up to Trump and kick him in his ass but I know it's a SMART CHOICE not to because the possible consequences are not worth doing what I WANT.

Stop trying to justify bad choices.
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Old 29th October 2019, 05:38 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Oh, good lord. What we may WANT and what is a SMART CHOICE can be two completely different things. I WANT to walk up to Trump and kick him in his ass but I know it's a SMART CHOICE not to because the possible consequences are not worth doing what I WANT.

Stop trying to justify bad choices.
The fact that some ******* might decide to release those pictures doesn’t mean that people should be castigates for it. If you want to pose for nude pics that you believe only you and your significant other(s) will see because you enjoy it then I think you are likely to weigh up the risks and rewards and come to your own conclusions. Just because you and others have heard revenge porn stories is not sufficient to say it is at all times a stupid thing to do just as we don’t hear stories of people drowning at the seaside or hear of car accidents and argue that people should never go to the beach or drive a car.

The idea that you have only yourself to blame if private photos go public is just transferring blame from where it belongs to the victim.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 29th October 2019, 06:05 PM   #72
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If someone voluntarily gives you explicit pictures of themselves with the agreement (either explicit or implicit) that you not show anyone else and you do that's morally equivalent to taking the pictures without their consent and distributing them and it's victim blaming, 100%, to suggest otherwise.
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Old 29th October 2019, 06:16 PM   #73
Regnad Kcin
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Oh, good lord. What we may WANT and what is a SMART CHOICE can be two completely different things. I WANT to walk up to Trump and kick him in his ass but I know it's a SMART CHOICE not to because the possible consequences are not worth doing what I WANT.

Stop trying to justify bad choices.
FWIW, I agree with your argument.
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Old 29th October 2019, 06:17 PM   #74
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
The fact that some ******* might decide to release those pictures doesn’t mean that people should be castigates for it. If you want to pose for nude pics that you believe only you and your significant other(s) will see because you enjoy it then I think you are likely to weigh up the risks and rewards and come to your own conclusions. Just because you and others have heard revenge porn stories is not sufficient to say it is at all times a stupid thing to do just as we don’t hear stories of people drowning at the seaside or hear of car accidents and argue that people should never go to the beach or drive a car.

The idea that you have only yourself to blame if private photos go public is just transferring blame from where it belongs to the victim.
Oh, good lord 2. Did I SAY anyone should be castigated for it? I said it's not a very intelligent thing to do. Or do you think taking pics/videos of you sexual activities is a SMART thing to do given the age of the internet, smart phones, and hacking? How about asking Hill if she'd do it again now? Or John Edwards. Anthony Weiner, Chris Lee. Or maybe Paris Hilton, Hulk Hogan, Verne Troyer, Usher, Colin Farrell, Pamela Anderson, Rob Lowe, Tom Sizemore etc.

Stop misrepresenting what I said. I never said a person has only him/herself to blame if they go public. But if they DO, it's the person who chose to make them in the first place who is going to suffer the consequences. Just as I wouldn't blame myself and not the attacker if I got assaulted, I don't leave my doors unlocked. I don't walk down a dark alley at night in a dodgy part of town. I don't choose to deliberately cut someone off on the freeway.

If you choose to make a sex video or take pictures of it, then you had better be prepared for the consequences if they get out. It was YOUR decision. That does not in any way take blame off the jerk who puts them out in the public.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 29th October 2019 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 30th October 2019, 03:09 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Sex with an employee is potentially wrong for the reasons you give, but not intrinsically wrong, imho.
I would agree, though it seems the House passed rules against it in all cases.
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Old 30th October 2019, 06:58 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Oh, good lord. What we may WANT and what is a SMART CHOICE can be two completely different things. I WANT to walk up to Trump and kick him in his ass but I know it's a SMART CHOICE not to because the possible consequences are not worth doing what I WANT.

Stop trying to justify bad choices.
You know what is smart? Minding your own ******* business. This stuff is used to ruin women's careers because we just need to know what is going on between consenting adults.

Of course, none of us would like our own private moments trafficked by a national political party.
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Old 30th October 2019, 09:30 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
If someone voluntarily gives you explicit pictures of themselves with the agreement (either explicit or implicit) that you not show anyone else and you do that's morally equivalent to taking the pictures without their consent and distributing them and it's victim blaming, 100%, to suggest otherwise.
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Old 30th October 2019, 09:44 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
If someone voluntarily gives you explicit pictures of themselves with the agreement (either explicit or implicit) that you not show anyone else and you do that's morally equivalent to taking the pictures without their consent and distributing them and it's victim blaming, 100%, to suggest otherwise.
Some scenarios, there's enough blame to go around. Everybody from insurance companies, to OSHA; to private security; to everyone who deals with criminal negligence, due diligence, or fiduciary responsibility understands this.

People can create or contribute to conditions that put them at risk. Their own choices about risk mitigation aren't excused simply because the risk also depends on the choices of others, to manifest.

A bank can't tell its investors that the millions in deposits that are missing from the janitor's closet aren't the bank's fault, because the janitor chose to steal that money. No, the bank is liable for not properly securing the money. And the investors bear some blame themselves, for not doing their own due diligence.

Victim blaming is a thing, because sometimes the victim shares some of the blame.
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Old 30th October 2019, 10:04 AM   #79
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Would anyone be calling for Hill's resignation if it were just revenge porn images released? Her scandal is limited largely to the inappropriate relationship she was having with her subordinate. Had the story run only with the text messages and the allegation of the inappropriate relationship, then the scandal would have a much more damning narrative

To be honest, the revenge porn is only making her seem more sympathetic as a victim of a form of sexual crime. If it weren't for the inappropriateness of the relationship itself, I would see no reason why a grown woman should be ashamed having a private sexual life.

The brewing story is that the NRCC had advance knowledge of the photos and may have facilitated the publishing of the story. Given that revenge porn is a crime in California, this may involve a criminal conspiracy.

Noted loose-lipped idiot George Papadopoulos was tweeting “California’s 25th congressional district looks like it’s for the taking” the day before the story ran, which means he knew of the story in advance.
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Old 30th October 2019, 10:11 AM   #80
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
You know what is smart? Minding your own ******* business. This stuff is used to ruin women's careers because we just need to know what is going on between consenting adults.
Of course it is...but people don't mind their own business which is my point!

No, it's not used against women 'because we just need to know what is going on between consenting adults'; it's used as a weapon to hurt and destroy both men and women for either personal (revenge) or political reasons.

Quote:
Of course, none of us would like our own private moments trafficked by a national political party.
That's obvious...which is why it's not a smart choice to record our private sexual activities especially if you're a politician.
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