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Tags California politics , Katie Hill , politics scandals , sex scandals

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Old 31st October 2019, 02:18 PM   #121
Dr. Keith
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Pretty much the same as taking any photos.
Entirely. I won't let anyone post photos of me or my family online, but especially on facebook. And I delete any photos that I'd rather not have to explain later.

Quote:
And why limit it to text based communication, why shouldn't everyone be obligated to live their whole lives by the standard you hold your email to?
I don't think anyone should live their lives by my standards. My standards are boring as ****. In fact the first 20+ years of my life were not all lived to those standards. But, having lived my life like that for over 20 years I have a hard time grasping why people do things that I can never imagine doing. I get that they do. I get that they will. I get that they shouldn't be punished for doing so. I just don't get the attraction.

Like I said, it is not judgement, it is a lack of understanding on my part. I have never thought "this sex would be better if we took pictures." Hell, I rarely think "this [event] would be better if we took pictures" for any value of [event]. Pictures don't make a wedding better, the necessity of taking them is a total drag and an interruption. Why would I think pictures would make sex better?

Look, I have to sand a piece of wood before I paint it. It sucks because it takes time, but it is a necessary step of the process. Why would I then add sanding to other tasks where it is not needed, like drinking beer? Drinking beer is too enjoyable, maybe if I try sanding stuff while drinking beer, the beer drinking will be better. No, you drink beer while you are sanding because the beer drinking makes the sanding better. Hmm, I guess I could try sex during photos the next time I have to take photos, to make the photo session more bearable, but that is going to be really weird for the rest of the family at my nephew's wedding.
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Old 31st October 2019, 04:22 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yep women should also know better than to drink alcohol, or associate with men. If they just stopped the last think how few rapes there would be. If you choose to continue to associate with men, well these things happen.



Yep go out to clubs and those kind of things happen, leaving the house is the first mistake.


Like going out to clubs is also a often a first mistake.

This is victim blaming, focusing on what to do to avoid being a victim and ignoring the perpetrators is victim blaming. She should really have known better than to have a sex life at all. I mean what if her husband secretly recorded her, and released it as revenge porn, of course that would be a failure of her to be sufficiently careful at avoiding being recorded.

Where does focusing on what the victim could have done to prevent something instead of focusing on the perpetrator become silly instead of pragmatic?

Why was the focus not more on why Brock Turners victim shouldn't have drunk that much alcohol?
Your need to resort to such ridiculous, outlandish hyperbole just demonstrates that you haven't got a logical rebuttal to my point.

Sure, not walking down a dark alley alone in a dodgy part of town at night is the same as saying you should never go outside at all. Yeah. Sure it is. Why not just claim that saying it's not a smart idea to eat an entire full sheet birthday cake in one sitting is like saying you shouldn't eat at all.

When you can discuss this in a rational manner, let me know. I'm not into this kind of nonsense.
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Old 31st October 2019, 04:24 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah so again, it's your fault for being famous. Like I said. Glad to know I was right.

I think my "reading comprehension" is just fine.
Sigh. OK...if it makes you happy.

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Old 31st October 2019, 04:35 PM   #124
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This is my last post on the subject as some of you just can't seem to differentiate between something being WRONG and something being not SMART.

I never said Hill or anyone is WRONG for making sex videos. I clearly said I don't give a damn WHAT two consenting adults do. I said it wasn't a SMART thing to do considering the internet/smart phone/ political/ age we live in. Apparently, some of you DO consider it a smart thing to do.

If you need to interpret that as blaming the victim for someone else taking that video and making it public, then there's nothing else I can say to clear that up for you. And I'm no longer interested in trying. Some things just aren't worth the headache. This is one of them.
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Old 31st October 2019, 07:11 PM   #125
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I think what we're missing here is that there is a big push right now to say that Hill did nothing wrong, and hence the focus on her being wronged. Which of course completely ignores the fact that she was not pushed to resign because of the photos, but because of her current affair with another staffer, apparently sans photographs.

So saying it was stupid undermines the current effort.
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Old 1st November 2019, 07:50 AM   #126
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Who here said Hill did nothing wrong? Can you quote that person? We all agree that a relationship with a subordinate is wrong.

If I didn't know any better, I'd say you were trying to distract from the fact that your "team" is trafficking in revenge porn.

Are you OK with the RNCC, a division of the RNC, trafficking in revenge porn?
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Old 1st November 2019, 08:17 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This is my last post on the subject as some of you just can't seem to differentiate between something being WRONG and something being not SMART.
It's a distinction without difference if it leads to the person in question being treated the same regardless if they are "WRONG" or "not SMART."

This woman had explicit photos of her shared without her consent. If your response it to focus is then on her "stupidity" for having them in the first place I fail to see the difference you insist upon.
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Old 1st November 2019, 08:22 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Who here said Hill did nothing wrong?
Let's try to read this carefully:

Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I think what we're missing here is that there is a big push right now to say that Hill did nothing wrong
Brainster didn't say anyone here said Hill did nothing wrong. Rather, the people here are missing that people somewhere are saying Hill did nothing wrong. If people here were saying that she did nothing wrong, then people here probably wouldn't be missing it, whereas if they're saying it elsewhere, then it's much easier to miss here. So the sensible reading of his post is that it's being said elsewhere.
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Old 1st November 2019, 08:35 AM   #129
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Could either Brainster or yourself demonstrate evidence of that push? Are you going to link a couple of twitter posts that I already said exist but are in the vast minority?

Can you deal with the conversation here? Or are you going to help Brainster distract from the fact that a major political party is trafficking revenge porn?

And while you are at it: Do you think it is OK that the RNCC, a part of the RNC, trafficked in revenge porn? A yes or no will suffice.
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Old 1st November 2019, 08:37 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's a distinction without difference if it leads to the person in question being treated the same regardless if they are "WRONG" or "not SMART."

This woman had explicit photos of her shared without her consent. If your response it to focus is then on her "stupidity" for having them in the first place I fail to see the difference you insist upon.
My response is the people who shared the photos are criminals that should be prosecuted AND I don't understand why anyone, especially those in the public eye, would ever film themselves having sex. It is not one or the other. It is both. Is that allowed? Or do I have to just pick one?
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Old 1st November 2019, 08:45 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
My response is the people who shared the photos are criminals that should be prosecuted AND I don't understand why anyone, especially those in the public eye, would ever film themselves having sex. It is not one or the other. It is both. Is that allowed? Or do I have to just pick one?
You're "allowed" (whatever the chuff that is supposed to mean) to say whatever you want.

I just don't understand what you think your "I don't understand why someone would do this" matters or what point it has in the discussion. People don't have to justify their own legal activities to your moral code.

No, let me guess, you're gonna respond with "I'm not expecting them to" so I'm wondering exactly what change you're expecting for your two cents.

What you (and others) are functionally doing is blaming her. Whether in your head it's blaming her or just... wandering into the discussion to give your opinion about your own moral code that nobody asked for makes no difference.
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Old 1st November 2019, 08:47 AM   #132
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Rep. Hill resigns due to improper relationship with Congressional staff member, a clear violation of the rules.

"But what about the revenge porn?!"
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Old 1st November 2019, 08:59 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You're "allowed" (whatever the chuff that is supposed to mean) to say whatever you want.

I just don't understand what you think your "I don't understand why someone would do this" matters or what point it has in the discussion. People don't have to justify their own legal activities to your moral code.

No, let me guess, you're gonna respond with "I'm not expecting them to" so I'm wondering exactly what change you're expecting for your two cents.

What you (and others) are functionally doing is blaming her. Whether in your head it's blaming her or just... wandering into the discussion to give your opinion about your own moral code that nobody asked for makes no difference.
Thanks for your input. It has really helped me to understand. That means a lot to me.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Rep. Hill resigns due to improper relationship with Congressional staff member, a clear violation of the rules.

"But what about the revenge porn?!"
Seriously, do you not think it should be investigated?

If someone broke into my house and stole all my **** and the cops found a bag of pot under my bed while gathering evidence, I still want them to go after the thief even if I have face the possession charges.
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Old 1st November 2019, 08:59 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Rep. Hill resigns due to improper relationship with Congressional staff member, a clear violation of the rules.

"But what about the revenge porn?!"
Yes, what is your opinion of the Republican part trafficking revenge porn?
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Old 1st November 2019, 09:19 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Could either Brainster or yourself demonstrate evidence of that push?
I'll leave that to him, since it was his claim. I was merely clarifying what the claim was.

Quote:
Can you deal with the conversation here? Or are you going to help Brainster distract from the fact that a major political party is trafficking revenge porn?

And while you are at it: Do you think it is OK that the RNCC, a part of the RNC, trafficked in revenge porn? A yes or no will suffice.
I'm confused. I don't think I've seen any stories that source the naked pictures to the RNC or the RNCC. I've no doubt that they have taken advantage of the situation by criticizing Hill, but I don't classify that as "trafficking in revenge porn". So can you clarify what you mean by that? Are you saying the RNCC are the ones who actually distributed the naked pictures that have been printed?
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Old 1st November 2019, 09:21 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Seriously, do you not think it should be investigated?
This thread isn't about investigating revenge porn. The only reason to even bring it up is to address Puppycow's hypothesis that its publication was the real motive for Pelosi asking Hill to resign.

Quote:
If someone broke into my house and stole all my **** and the cops found a bag of pot under my bed while gathering evidence, I still want them to go after the thief even if I have face the possession charges.
This analogy fails because she didn't resign because of the revenge porn, she resigned because Congressional staff reported her improper relationship with a Congressional staffer.

Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Yes, what is your opinion of the Republican part trafficking revenge porn?
It's off topic for this thread, for one thing.
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Old 1st November 2019, 11:15 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I'll leave that to him, since it was his claim. I was merely clarifying what the claim was.
Maybe leave him to clarify his own claims

Quote:
I'm confused. I don't think I've seen any stories that source the naked pictures to the RNC or the RNCC. I've no doubt that they have taken advantage of the situation by criticizing Hill, but I don't classify that as "trafficking in revenge porn". So can you clarify what you mean by that? Are you saying the RNCC are the ones who actually distributed the naked pictures that have been printed?
It was the campaign adviser of the previous Republican to hold her seat. He brought it to the RNCC and then went to other Republican mouthpieces. Even if they didn't directly send them out, they knew it was there and geared up for the fallout.
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Old 1st November 2019, 11:17 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's off topic for this thread, for one thing.
This is the first time that idea was kicked up. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that Hill has admitted to the unethical behavior, resigned, so all there is left to discuss is the GOP trafficking in revenge porn.
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Old 1st November 2019, 11:32 AM   #139
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A lot of people here seem to be focused on porn
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Old 1st November 2019, 12:15 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
A lot of people here seem to be focused on porn
What's wrong with that? It's a lot healthier than listening to the lying POS President.
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Old 1st November 2019, 12:17 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
It was the campaign adviser of the previous Republican to hold her seat. He brought it to the RNCC and then went to other Republican mouthpieces. Even if they didn't directly send them out, they knew it was there and geared up for the fallout.
Knowing it was there and gearing up for the fallout are not even close to what I would consider "trafficking in revenge porn". There is no indication from this article that the RNCC distributed any of this material to anyone. They deny even ever having it, I don't see any reason to disbelieve them, and no one is accusing them of having distributed them or even having them.

The closest we get to your accusation is that Jennifer Van Laar was the author of a Red State article that published some of the photos, and she previously worked for Knight (Hill's previous opponent). And I'll accept the accusation that she trafficked in revenge porn, and that that's a bad thing. But she's not part of the RNCC. If Knight or the RNCC hires her in the future, then they're fair game for criticism on that front, but until then I don't see how you can blame them for what she did.
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Old 1st November 2019, 12:19 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
A lot of people here seem to be focused on porn
This is the internet.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 1st November 2019, 02:52 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
This is the first time that idea was kicked up. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that Hill has admitted to the unethical behavior, resigned, so all there is left to discuss is the GOP trafficking in revenge porn.
Looks like a straightforward whatabout play, to me.
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Old 3rd November 2019, 06:36 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Looks like a straightforward whatabout play, to me.
More like a what happens next play.
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Old 3rd November 2019, 06:46 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
More like a what happens next play.
How do you figure? She broke House rules, resigned because of it. Some people are trying to make it about the revenge porn instead.
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Old 3rd November 2019, 11:27 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Looks like a straightforward whatabout play, to me.
Because the "whatabout" is a significant problem. And, I'm not using it to dismiss Hill's ethical violations. She already resigned. There's not really much more to talk about Hill's ethical issues unless an investigation reveals something.

But, there is an issue of a major political party trafficking in revenge porn to deal with. Assuming you are opposed to revenge porn being used as a political tool (or for any reason).
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Old 3rd November 2019, 11:44 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
But, there is an issue of a major political party trafficking in revenge porn to deal with.
We've been through this already. The Republican party did not "traffick in revenge porn".
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Old 4th November 2019, 04:20 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Entirely. I won't let anyone post photos of me or my family online, but especially on facebook. And I delete any photos that I'd rather not have to explain later.



I don't think anyone should live their lives by my standards. My standards are boring as ****. In fact the first 20+ years of my life were not all lived to those standards. But, having lived my life like that for over 20 years I have a hard time grasping why people do things that I can never imagine doing. I get that they do. I get that they will. I get that they shouldn't be punished for doing so. I just don't get the attraction.
Because it is fun. Do you take photos of memorable events? Why should memorable sexual events be different?

I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone under 40 who does not have nudes out there somewhere.
Quote:
Like I said, it is not judgement, it is a lack of understanding on my part. I have never thought "this sex would be better if we took pictures." Hell, I rarely think "this [event] would be better if we took pictures" for any value of [event]. Pictures don't make a wedding better, the necessity of taking them is a total drag and an interruption. Why would I think pictures would make sex better?
That is the formal photos sure, but the photos of the reception? I took wedding photos with my wife at the American Museum of Natural History and had a lot of fun doing so. The act of taking photos and being photographed can be foreplay in itself.
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Old 4th November 2019, 04:23 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Your need to resort to such ridiculous, outlandish hyperbole just demonstrates that you haven't got a logical rebuttal to my point.
It was just mild exageration at most. So where do you draw the line about
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Sure, not walking down a dark alley alone in a dodgy part of town at night is the same as saying you should never go outside at all. Yeah. Sure it is. Why not just claim that saying it's not a smart idea to eat an entire full sheet birthday cake in one sitting is like saying you shouldn't eat at all.
I wasn't saying going outside, I was saying going out to clubs, think how much safer women would be if they avoided them.
Quote:
When you can discuss this in a rational manner, let me know. I'm not into this kind of nonsense.
I was exaggerating somewhat to show how you are victim blaming, just at a level you are comfortable with. As we are talking about avoiding an activity because of risks it is very much more like refusing to go out to clubs instead of avoiding dark allies. The problem being the fundamental activity, not say being careful with how the nudes are stored and who they are shared with.
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Old 4th November 2019, 04:26 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This is my last post on the subject as some of you just can't seem to differentiate between something being WRONG and something being not SMART.

I never said Hill or anyone is WRONG for making sex videos. I clearly said I don't give a damn WHAT two consenting adults do. I said it wasn't a SMART thing to do considering the internet/smart phone/ political/ age we live in. Apparently, some of you DO consider it a smart thing to do.

If you need to interpret that as blaming the victim for someone else taking that video and making it public, then there's nothing else I can say to clear that up for you. And I'm no longer interested in trying. Some things just aren't worth the headache. This is one of them.
Yep if only she did the right thing she wouldn't be a victim, and that is the narrative to always focus on. Nothing remotely victim blaming about that.

Up next why it is always the person shot by the police who made all the mistakes, and how we will focus solely on their behavior.
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Old 4th November 2019, 04:28 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
My response is the people who shared the photos are criminals that should be prosecuted AND I don't understand why anyone, especially those in the public eye, would ever film themselves having sex. It is not one or the other. It is both. Is that allowed? Or do I have to just pick one?
Often yes. It is like talking about how Philando Castile should have stopped pulling out his wallet when the cop ordered him to and then told him not to pull out his gun. Would stopping moving then have saved his life, maybe, but focusing on the police officers behavior seems more important.
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Old 4th November 2019, 04:42 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Because it is fun. Do you take photos of memorable events? Why should memorable sexual events be different?



...snip.
. being photographed can be foreplay in itself.
Because sex out of the moment looks disgusting and I don't need a reminder of my flabby pale body!


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Old 4th November 2019, 04:58 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Because sex out of the moment looks disgusting and I don't need a reminder of my flabby pale body!


I find that can be fixed by stealing some professional photographer tricks and smearing some vaseline on the lens. One and half tubs usually does the trick for me.
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Old 4th November 2019, 04:58 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Because sex out of the moment looks disgusting and I don't need a reminder of my flabby pale body!


I haven't seen the photo's in question and most people I know who take nudes and sexual photos are taking them either of kink situations or more soft core.
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Old 6th November 2019, 12:08 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
How do you figure? She broke House rules, resigned because of it. Some people are trying to make it about the revenge porn instead.
She broke House rules, resigned because of it. Some other people broke more serious rules by distributing revenge porn and should also be held accountable.

That is how I figure the story isn't over, yet.
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Old 6th November 2019, 12:10 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Because it is fun. Do you take photos of memorable events? Why should memorable sexual events be different?

I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone under 40 who does not have nudes out there somewhere.


That is the formal photos sure, but the photos of the reception? I took wedding photos with my wife at the American Museum of Natural History and had a lot of fun doing so. The act of taking photos and being photographed can be foreplay in itself.
Thank you.

I suppose I'm more in the Darat demographic and I can't imagine this helping in my sex life, but you have helped me understand a bit better how other may get something from it.
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Old 6th November 2019, 12:29 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Thank you.

I suppose I'm more in the Darat demographic and I can't imagine this helping in my sex life, but you have helped me understand a bit better how other may get something from it.
I mean my vacation photos are no where near the level of professional landscape photos so why take them?
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Old 8th November 2019, 09:09 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Question, if it's okay: Did you call the cops? What was the outcome? I'm not being critical here, but I've always felt that women who choose not to report assaults -- especially by strangers, as opposed to situations that could be reduced to "he said, she said" -- are putting other women at risk. What you're describing could have gone much worse, and it might well have turned out much worse for the guy's next target if he wasn't caught.
Yes and no. There are so many reasons not to report, though. Just off the top of my head I could list enough to fill a paragraph.

If you have no idea who the perp is and you're pretty sure they can't be identified, at least reporting creates a news stir that might deter them from doing it again, but that's neither here nor there. I don't really blame people for not reporting. I greatly respect the ones who do, but I've talked to enough survivors and read enough material to know that sometimes it may not even be the best course of action.
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Old 8th November 2019, 09:51 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I don't think anyone here, and certainly not I, is claiming what two (or more) consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is the problem. I couldn't care less what people do as long as it's consensual. But taking pics or video of sexual interactions is not a very smart thing to do, especially if one has political aspirations. History has shown us very clearly how they can be, and are, used against a person by people like angry exes, political opponents and just plain jerks who want to make money one them.
Look at this this way.

Love and intimacy is, when it comes down to it, about daring to make ourselves vulnerable. We spend time naked with the people we trust, we confide them secrets, we make love, we share belongings and valuables with them.

To be honest, I don't think it's that different from the things we all do all the time -- tell our partners and best friends things we tell virtually no one else, for example, or going into relationships, which gives them the opportunity to cheat on us, or leave our valuables in the same room as them. We give our partners ample opportunity to ruin our lives, most of the time without thinking about it. Because we trust them.

Yet do we blame the victim when someone is cheated on, or when someone tells someone a secret and they blabber to the whole school, or if a person we trust more than anything writes down our credit card information and decide to buy stuff in our name after the breakup? It always seems to be specifically the victims of sexual offenses that are told that they shouldn't have done so-and-so.
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Old 8th November 2019, 10:20 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Yet do we blame the victim when someone is cheated on, or when someone tells someone a secret and they blabber to the whole school, or if a person we trust more than anything writes down our credit card information and decide to buy stuff in our name after the breakup? It always seems to be specifically the victims of sexual offenses that are told that they shouldn't have done so-and-so.
It varies. Secrets, for example: The risk inherent in sharing secrets is recognized going back to the 1700s (Franklin) and even the 1500s (Shakespeare). It almost certainly goes back even farther, probably to antiquity.

While it's true that betrayal is the fault of the betrayer, it's reasonable to expect people to be careful about the handles for betrayal that they make available. You share your credit card info with your spouse, having done your due diligence, and hope for the best. You don't share your credit card info with a stranger on a street corner. Of if you do, and the stranger betrays you, there is a measure of "your own damn fault" properly in store for you.

And the principle of taking proper precautions against liability is in fact widely recognized. We don't just apply it to victims of sexual offenses. We apply it to banks that get robbed. We apply it to workplace accidents. We apply it to espionage, and warfare. We apply it pretty much everywhere that we recognize that there are people or circumstances that work against us, and that we can take measures to mitigate this risk.

Anywhere carelessness creates opportunities for victimization, it can be appropriate to call the victim to account for their carelessness.
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