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Tags bribery issues , donald trump , Trump controversies

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Old 20th January 2020, 05:26 PM   #81
xjx388
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
When a law is ineffective the best thing to do is get rid of it. For example in 2018 there were 15,498 murders in the US. Clearly the laws against murder are not working, so the best thing to do is make it legal again!



After all, it's a well known fact that preventing U.S. businesses from killing people puts them at a disadvantage in places where it's 'customary'.
Why is it so hard to stick to the topic. For many reasons, the “murder” analogy sucks.



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And how are we going to do that? Sanctions! Yes, we'll starve 'em into submission. And if the sanctions encourage even more corruption? Well then we will be 'forced' to invade! This will make huuge profits for the MIC - which is not at all corrupt.
Hyperbole isn’t helping. When you feel like addressing the things I wrote, get back to me.
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Old 20th January 2020, 05:29 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Libertarians might argue that the bribery is more a symptom of regulation than of capitalism.
Libertarians dream up all sorts of delusional BS.
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Old 20th January 2020, 05:32 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
As distracted1 points out above, bribery is most often a consequence of regulation; indeed, the bribery targeted by the US law is specifically about bribing foreign government officials. Need a permit from the Mexican government? There's a bureaucrat who can make it go really fast or really slow -or make it never happen at all. Need your shipments to clear customs? You better be up to date on your propinas.

I would bet that just about every foreign company doing business in Mexico has paid bribes to Mexican officials from the bureacracy to the police to the judiciary.
Or you can build your plant here and pay just wages to American workers.

No free lunch for corporations.
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Old 20th January 2020, 05:35 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It has been morally acceptable to a lot of people for a long time in a lot of places. Even today.

We might look back at those people with disgust because we don't think it's morally acceptable to us now, but in a thousand years those things might make a comeback and peopel then will look at us with the same disgust.
You need to learn the difference between something being acceptED and it being acceptABLE.
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Old 20th January 2020, 05:43 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If the US were serious about ending corruption abroad, they could do it by embargoes, tarrifs, witholding aid, etc.
At the turn of the 20th century, they sent in the Marines. See the speeches of General Smedley Butler, a self-confessed "gangster for capitalism"

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War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

General Smedley Butler, 1933
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Old 20th January 2020, 06:42 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Why is it so hard to stick to the topic. For many reasons, the “murder” analogy sucks.
On the contrary, it is quite appropriate. And don't believe for a moment that businesses wouldn't abolish murder as a crime if they could get away with it.

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Hyperbole isn’t helping. When you feel like addressing the things I wrote, get back to me.
It's not hyperbole, it's what we are actually doing!

You talk about what we need to do, and lament about how it won't get done because 'no one really wants to fight corruption'. But that attitude is part of the reason that nothing gets done. If enough people stood up and demanded something be done about it, it would. But that might require a change of government - a sacrifice many people are not willing to take because it might affect their own pocket. In short, you are one of the ones who doesn't really want to fight corruption.
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Old 21st January 2020, 10:09 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
On the contrary, it is quite appropriate. And don't believe for a moment that businesses wouldn't abolish murder as a crime if they could get away with it.
That statement, "businesses would abolish murder!" is so far out there as to be unworthy of serious consideration. There is an ocean of difference between taking someone's life and paying someone to get a permit faster that the comparison is ridiculous.

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It's not hyperbole, it's what we are actually doing!
Oh, we are starving them out and moving to invade Mexico, are we?

Quote:
You talk about what we need to do, and lament about how it won't get done because 'no one really wants to fight corruption'. But that attitude is part of the reason that nothing gets done. If enough people stood up and demanded something be done about it, it would. But that might require a change of government - a sacrifice many people are not willing to take because it might affect their own pocket. In short, you are one of the ones who doesn't really want to fight corruption.
Let's be real . . . any reasonably informed person knows that Mexico (and China and Venezuela and etc) is pretty dang corrupt and has been for a very long time, especially those of us that grew up and live near the border and see it first hand. Nobody ever talks about changing it, we just live with it. "Fighting corruption abroad," is not a visible part of any major political party's or candidate's platform and it isn't a rallying cry for any discernable block of voters. In short, none of us really want to fight corruption abroad.
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Old 21st January 2020, 10:39 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
That statement, "businesses would abolish murder!" is so far out there as to be unworthy of serious consideration. There is an ocean of difference between taking someone's life and paying someone to get a permit faster that the comparison is ridiculous.
Wow.

I don't often get to accuse someone of being naive, but in this instance...
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Old 21st January 2020, 11:05 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Wow.

I don't often get to accuse someone of being naive, but in this instance...
Elucidate.
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Old 21st January 2020, 11:06 AM   #90
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I would think that murder would be bad for business.
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Old 21st January 2020, 11:27 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I would think that murder would be bad for business.
Depends on whom gets murdered.
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Old 21st January 2020, 11:29 AM   #92
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Good point.
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Old 21st January 2020, 11:36 AM   #93
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In the Life of Brain Screenplay
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/..._Life_Of_Brian

is a fake 0 AD magazine with articles like:

"Should Murder be Illegal? - a Hitman's view".


Terry Prachett's Assassin guild is hailed as an institution that puts an actual monetary value on a human life, which otherwise would be worthless.
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Old 21st January 2020, 01:15 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Depends on whom gets murdered.
Nestle is infamous for it's baby formula campaign in Africa in the 70s, where they pushed formula use despite the fact that there wasn't clean water to drink. Countless babies were harmed and even died as a result of their actions.

But hey, it was a way to sell more formula, so who can criticize them for it?

In a purely capitalistic model, the cost of damage due to the product can just be considered in the cost of doing business. This is why punishment need to be prohibitively high, and goes beyond the cost of damages themselves - to make sure that it's not worth it.
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