ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags cit

Reply
Old 2nd June 2009, 07:58 PM   #81
JoeyDonuts
Frequencies Not Known To Normals
 
JoeyDonuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 10,536
Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
I think we should let some of our friends in the Military, especially those who lost buddies on 9/11, know about this one...
Noted. Printed out and filed under "Not Worth My Damn Time."
__________________
EXIT STAGE LEFT! EXIT STAGE RIGHT! THERE IS NO PLACE TO RUN; ALL THE FUSES IN THE EXIT SIGNS HAVE BEEN BURNED OUT!
JoeyDonuts is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd June 2009, 08:00 PM   #82
1337m4n
Alphanumeric Anonymous Stick Man
 
1337m4n's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,510
Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
1. explain when you intend to torrent all your raw video so that we investigators can objectively analyze your ground breaking "evidence."
This.

I know you're reading this Craig. You keep bragging about your 14 groundbreaking witness interviews--why are only four of these publicly available on video?
__________________
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...2b728514ea.gif

"The evidence that the attacks of 9/11 were an inside job just keeps not coming in." --pomeroo
1337m4n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd June 2009, 08:02 PM   #83
R.Mackey
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,854
I didn't know anybody still paid attention to Craig and Waldo...

However, I can't think of a good reason not to inform their chosen witnesses whose statements they plan to use. Surely it's in their personal interest to know what's going on in their names. Quite strange if they're not already on the list, if not asked to speak.
R.Mackey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 02:54 AM   #84
chillzero
Penultimate Amazing
 
chillzero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,558
Guys, don't be holding cross-forum discussions. Don't be posting for them by proxy either, by quoting them in order to respond here. Talk to them wherever they are. Otherwise this thread will likely be locked by the mods.
chillzero is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 04:02 AM   #85
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
Originally Posted by chillzero View Post
Guys, don't be holding cross-forum discussions. Don't be posting for them by proxy either, by quoting them in order to respond here. Talk to them wherever they are. Otherwise this thread will likely be locked by the mods.
You know what they say...

"You can take the woman out of the moderator, but you can't take the moderator out of the woman."....er something like that.

TAM
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 05:07 AM   #86
Mr.Herbert
Graduate Poster
 
Mr.Herbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,448
Originally Posted by Bobert View Post
There was a comment by a certain truther that got me thinking and I am going to contact the NRECA regarding this to see if they understand what is taking place.
NRECA Conference Center 4301 Wilson Blvd. Arlington, VA 22203. Phone: (703) 907-5939 Fax: (703) 907-6885 E-mail: ConferenceCenter@nreca.coop.
I went to the website to check the place out. It looks like a very nice facility to hold a conference in. So, I was thinking; how could these dolts afford such a nice place to hold their tree fort meeting. Then I read this:

Originally Posted by NRECA
Community Usage

The NRECA Conference Center is available at no charge to Arlington County Non-profit and Community Groups during 75% of the Off-Peak Time. Please call for more information at (703) 907-5939 or Apply On-Line by requesting your event.

I'm wondering if they some how weaseled their way into getting a discount?


Either way, I will be sending them an e-mail expressing my displeasure with them hosting this pathetic "event."
Mr.Herbert is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 12:57 PM   #87
Bobert
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,126
Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
I am sure it is here somewhere, under one of the threads he made as Lytetrip.

I even started posting the number of days on the thread.

TAM

Edit: HE was banned. I am not sure, but do they delete threads started by banned members?

A google search reveals one of the threads which he may have said it in (it has been so long now), but a click on it brings up 404

http://www.randi.org/forumlive/showt...=69943&page=46
We do know that he posted this.
More importantly though as he began his, "investigation" he would tell his real life co-workers on an almost daily basis about how trials would begin as a result of what he was doing.
Craig is a delusional FRAUD.
Bobert is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 12:58 PM   #88
Bobert
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,126
Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
Here is one post along the lines of what I was referring to. It was spawned by an original post where Lyte claimed his earth shattering evidence was gonna result in arrests, and trials, or some sort...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=80091



TAM
Your clock was the greatest ever because it put the spotlight on what he said and what he said would happen.
Bobert is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 01:06 PM   #89
Bobert
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,126
Quote:
National Security Briefing Sensitive Information
Oh man this deserves a trio of LD's!
Bobert is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 01:35 PM   #90
Klimax
NWO Cyborg 5960x (subversion VPUNPCKHQDQ)
 
Klimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Starship Wanderer - DS9
Posts: 13,017
Could somebody look at my reply to Reheat? I suspect I have errors/mistakes there.
Since roundhead is no longer around,nothing should interfere...

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Klimax
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
That's a good guess!

At what point do the wings fail?

Where is the failure?

Does one or both fail catastrophically or gradually?

Remember, if there is no video, the failure was caused by a "beam weapon".

ETA: We could always let pffft do the calculations and they never fail on this depicted approach. They only fail on the "hockey stick" approach!
I think (I am no engineer or any other expert on matter) that it would be more instant fail if it would be significantly above "hard" limit,which it appears to be case. If "where" is 'Where in the proposed flight path it occures?' , then my nonexpert answer would be around the point with writtent words 'saw the north' as it appears to have peak of curve.

However if question is 'Where is the fracture point of the wonf on the plane?' then I don't know answer,at least at this time.

'Hocky stick' approach would definitly end in Pentagon or if frame would magically held then turn everybody into mess...

Note: I am no expert, I can only use what I remember from physics clases which I took before change of "carrier" including some laboratory experiments.
__________________
ModBorg

Engine: Ibalgin 400
Klimax is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 02:09 PM   #91
Macgyver1968
Philosopher
 
Macgyver1968's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 5,164
So why did Roundhead get banned?
__________________
"Fixin' crap that ain't broke."
Macgyver1968 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 02:18 PM   #92
Mr.Herbert
Graduate Poster
 
Mr.Herbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,448
He's been suspended 8 times prior to his ban. Repeated breach of his membership agreement.
Mr.Herbert is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 02:28 PM   #93
bje
Graduate Poster
 
bje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,280
Originally Posted by roundhead View Post

Cit is open to any 9/11 truth.
We know. There is no such thing as "9/11 Truth."

Thanks for sticking your foot in your mouth again.
__________________
- There is only one way to be right, but an infinite number of ways to be wrong.
bje is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 02:56 PM   #94
Reheat
Illuminator
 
Reheat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In Space
Posts: 3,675
Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Could somebody look at my reply to Reheat?
Klimax, I think you're taking this too seriously. I don't believe one could predict the precise answer to those questions I asked without the manufacturer's testing data. That's why I asked the questions, just to illustrate that point.

Even during accident investigations I don't believe Boeing (for example) turns over their testing data to the NTSB, they provide assistance in the way of their employees to help the NTSB, but not their test data. If I'm wrong about this, perhaps someone will correct me, but I think that's the way it works.

Even with the testing data there are still too many variables to be able to predict accurately. Numbers of TO/Landing cycles play a role, as does previous stresses such as an over G in turbulence, etc. Whether the G's are asymmetrical (rolling G) or symmetrical would also be a factor. Chances are likely it would involve a catastrophic failure, but precisely how, when, and where would just be an educated guess. That's the reason nobody with any sense plays around with G limits in transport category aircraft.

Since you're interested this perhaps we can persuade R. Mackey to comment as he likely knows more about this area than I do.
__________________
[Noc]

Last edited by Reheat; 3rd June 2009 at 03:47 PM.
Reheat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 03:33 PM   #95
tfk
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,454
Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
http://www.twf.org/News/Y2009/0711-Pentagon.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...CITPath12g.jpg
The dolts post a flier with a 12.9g turn that takes 85.6 degree of bank angle to complete ignoring the fact you can't roll in fast enough in a 757 to do the turn in the first place and the wings will most likely snap off at 7.635gs. What did you come up with expert 911 moronic idea supporter?

I am only a SAC trained killer with a masters in engineering who can fly 300,000 pound planes with precision; I find it hard to argue with idiots with delusions I image the press would be unprepared also. Why do you support the idiots with delusions on 911?

Wait just a gall dang minute...

These dolts show the plane coming at the Pentagon, about 85 (almost perpendicular) to the external wall. And show that flight path continuing into the building.

The Pentagon BPR says, "Most of the serious structural damage was within a swath that was approximately 75 to 80 ft wide and extended approxi- mately 230 ft into the first floor of the building. This swath was oriented at approximately 35to 40 degrees to the perpendicular to the exterior wall of the Pentagon."

Their flight path (both before AND INSIDE the building) requires the plane to make about a 400G, 30 - 35 left turn AS it is crashing into the building...

Or else, it follows their flight path, makes two 100G (R then L) turns over the lawn in order to be able to hit the entrance hole & be on the right mag heading.

Yeah, right...

Sorry, just my sudden realization... You guys have undoubtedly covered this before.

tom

Last edited by tfk; 3rd June 2009 at 03:35 PM.
tfk is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 04:02 PM   #96
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,515
Originally Posted by tfk View Post
Wait just a gall dang minute...

These dolts show the plane coming at the Pentagon, about 85 (almost perpendicular) to the external wall. And show that flight path continuing into the building.

The Pentagon BPR says, "Most of the serious structural damage was within a swath that was approximately 75 to 80 ft wide and extended approxi- mately 230 ft into the first floor of the building. This swath was oriented at approximately 35to 40 degrees to the perpendicular to the exterior wall of the Pentagon."

Their flight path (both before AND INSIDE the building) requires the plane to make about a 400G, 30 - 35 left turn AS it is crashing into the building...

Or else, it follows their flight path, makes two 100G (R then L) turns over the lawn in order to be able to hit the entrance hole & be on the right mag heading.

Yeah, right...

Sorry, just my sudden realization... You guys have undoubtedly covered this before.

tom
I was letting the NoC flight path cross the impact zone any old direction for the 12g turn.

I was giving them a zero time roll-in/roll-out bank with 12gs which does not include turning back to make the impact damage correct; it is impossible with a 757 to make a switch back turn to make the damage pattern correct from any NoC flight path.

Yes to make a damage patter and fly the delusional terrorist loyalist Balsamo approved mental illness paranoid nut case flight path known as NoC takes lots more Gs.
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 04:12 PM   #97
Bobert
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,126
I think I will go to some forums and post their annoucement.
I want to get some professional there that might disagree with them.
At the same time though I dont want to spam a professional forum with this crap.
Any suggestions?
How about groups around that area that might be interested?
At the very least maybe Aldo would get arrested for assault if he decides to physically remove anyone he disagrees with.
Is this the new CIT moto, "agree with us or we physically toss you out"?
Hmmmmm isn't this the sort of behavior that truthers cry out against?
Freedom of speech and stuff?
I cant wait until they have a socal event.

Last edited by Bobert; 3rd June 2009 at 04:13 PM.
Bobert is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 04:34 PM   #98
Sparky
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 437
Originally Posted by Bobert View Post
I cant wait until they have a socal event.
I'll have to go to that one, too.
Sparky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 04:57 PM   #99
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,515
Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
I think (I am no engineer or any other expert on matter) that it would be more instant fail if it would be significantly above "hard" limit,which it appears to be case. If "where" is 'Where in the proposed flight path it occures?' , then my nonexpert answer would be around the point with writtent words 'saw the north' as it appears to have peak of curve.

However if question is 'Where is the fracture point of the wonf on the plane?' then I don't know answer,at least at this time.

'Hocky stick' approach would definitly end in Pentagon or if frame would magically held then turn everybody into mess...

Note: I am no expert, I can only use what I remember from physics clases which I took before change of "carrier" including some laboratory experiments.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Wing breaks at 2:29 into video; maybe 7.2 gs.

150 percent load of 777 wing design max load.
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 05:21 PM   #100
Alt+F4
diabolical globalist
 
Alt+F4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,997
Originally Posted by Bobert View Post
How about groups around that area that might be interested?
Arlington County Fire Department
Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department
District of Columbia Fire Department
Fort Myer Fire Department
__________________
"My folks touched a lot of kids." - Jerry Sandusky
Alt+F4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 06:13 PM   #101
Bobert
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,126
Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
Arlington County Fire Department
Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department
District of Columbia Fire Department
Fort Myer Fire Department
Good!
Maybe some of those depts have forums.
I will work on this.
Bobert is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd June 2009, 06:14 PM   #102
Bobert
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,126
Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
I'll have to go to that one, too.
Make sure and bring a sack lunch!
Bobert is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th June 2009, 12:48 AM   #103
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 41,468
Bobert,

Okay, apparently TWF have a POBox in Arlington, so maybe, due to its proximity to D.C., that's just where they happen to be located. So that's likely how they got use of the venue.

From their announcement.....

Quote:
Presenters

Shelton F. Lankford: Lt. Col. USMC (ret.), fighter pilot with 300+ combat missions and 10,000+ hours flight time. Awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, and 32 Air Medals.
Aldo Marquis: Co-founder, Citizen Investigation Team, independent researcher, concerned citizen and father.
Enver Masud: Engineer, Director, Operations Review Division (State of Iowa), Acting Chief, Strategic and Emergency Planning (U.S. Dept. of Energy), consultant to USAID and World Bank.
Craig Ranke: Co-founder, Citizen Investigation Team, independent researcher, concerned citizen and activist.

Anyone ever heard of Shelton Lankford? Is that Captain Rob under a pseudonym, or is this their pet analyst? I'm sure you military types can find out if he really has any expertise in the area, or if he's claiming that because he's a pilot he knows FDRs.

Enver Masud? He's apparently becoming known, but I've never encountered him. Is TWF his group? I'm at work and can't track him to the credits the give for him in the brief bio above, but it would seem difficult to hold jobs in the State of Iowa and the U.S. Dept of Energy at the same time, plus writing the kind of crap on the below link, that would likely not make you real popular in either Iowa or the DoE.
http://www.twf.org/News/News911.html
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th June 2009, 02:18 AM   #104
Klimax
NWO Cyborg 5960x (subversion VPUNPCKHQDQ)
 
Klimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Starship Wanderer - DS9
Posts: 13,017
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
Klimax, I think you're taking this too seriously. I don't believe one could predict the precise answer to those questions I asked without the manufacturer's testing data. That's why I asked the questions, just to illustrate that point.

Even during accident investigations I don't believe Boeing (for example) turns over their testing data to the NTSB, they provide assistance in the way of their employees to help the NTSB, but not their test data. If I'm wrong about this, perhaps someone will correct me, but I think that's the way it works.

Even with the testing data there are still too many variables to be able to predict accurately. Numbers of TO/Landing cycles play a role, as does previous stresses such as an over G in turbulence, etc. Whether the G's are asymmetrical (rolling G) or symmetrical would also be a factor. Chances are likely it would involve a catastrophic failure, but precisely how, when, and where would just be an educated guess. That's the reason nobody with any sense plays around with G limits in transport category aircraft.

Since you're interested this perhaps we can persuade R. Mackey to comment as he likely knows more about this area than I do.
Thanks. More variables then I realised are at play.

Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Wing breaks at 2:29 into video; maybe 7.2 gs.

150 percent load of 777 wing design max load.
And it looks like definite breaking was at 154%. Thank you as well.

I guess majority was settled,unless RMackey will want to post here.
__________________
ModBorg

Engine: Ibalgin 400
Klimax is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th June 2009, 03:40 AM   #105
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
The only issue I have with any of this "let's make their talk uncomfortable" line, is that it is reinforcing their notion of (A) self-importance, and (B) paranoia that they are really on to something.

Better to just let them have their talk, have their 4 people show up, and let them wallow in their overwhelming insignificance.

TAM
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th June 2009, 06:13 AM   #106
Pinch
Critical Thinker
 
Pinch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Bobert,Anyone ever heard of Shelton Lankford? Is that Captain Rob under a pseudonym, or is this their pet analyst? I'm sure you military types can find out if he really has any expertise in the area, or if he's claiming that because he's a pilot he knows FDRs.
I've never heard of Lankford, but no doubt is another one of the moonbats with a butt load of flight hours who has bought into the Woo, probably for some attention. He'll get ego strokes from Cap't Bob and that'll cement the cult-of-personality environment there.

Plus, he is a die-hard Democrat from Maryland, so anything associated with George Bush or the ability to pin 9/11 on Bush is obviously too tasty to pass up. Tailor-made for a 9/11 Woo worshiper. One of Lankford's Facebook friends is a rabid-demo-automaton idiot named Mike Hersh, truly one of the most obnoxious internet personas I have ever encountered.

Their John "Moon Bases" Lear has about a quadrillion flight hours, but that means nothing when you look at his underlying beliefs on issues. I lost track of how many pilots the PfT has who said THEY couldn't have hit the Pentagon in a 757, which once again concerns me about the quality of airline pilot out there. Thank God they remain a minuscule minority. The line isn't very crooked leading between being a crappy pilot and joining P4T.

I could care less if Lankford has 10,000 or 50,000 or 10 flight hours or 300 or 3,000 combat missions. If he supports an organization a hexagonal-dice tree-fort club like PfT (and indeed is going to speak for them) that doesn't understand a standard published departure from a military airfield in the Wash DC area, or how NOTAMS are published throughout the ATC system, or if he really believes the April Gallop story about the "air defenses at the Pentagon" not engaging the aircraft or the absolutely hilarious accounts of DRG, his credibility is zero. Pure and simple.

Respect is rendered where respect is due...and earned. None rendered here. Mr. Lankford is a proud member of the in the John Murtha Ex-Marine club, as far as I'm concerned.

__________________
"There's this thing about being so "open minded" your brain falls out". --Unknown

Last edited by Pinch; 4th June 2009 at 07:28 AM.
Pinch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th June 2009, 08:03 AM   #107
HawksFan
Muse
 
HawksFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 541
I've lived in Iowa 43 years and I've never heard of Enver Masud.
__________________
"Oh that's right, you're an irrational, UNREASONABLE, piece of <radio edit> who hides behind his computer screen and expects action..." - Aldo
HawksFan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th June 2009, 08:55 AM   #108
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,515
Originally Posted by HawksFan View Post
I've lived in Iowa 43 years and I've never heard of Enver Masud.
http://www.twf.org/Library/woi3aL.pdf

He wrote this piece and in it he denies flight 77 and flight 93 existed and includes his version of history for other events.

Enver's lies on 911 match Balsamo's (Rob is the p4t terrorist loyalist selling DVDs filled with dirt dumb rant), and the moronic lies of CIT.
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th June 2009, 12:56 PM   #109
Bobert
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,126
Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
The only issue I have with any of this "let's make their talk uncomfortable" line, is that it is reinforcing their notion of (A) self-importance, and (B) paranoia that they are really on to something.

Better to just let them have their talk, have their 4 people show up, and let them wallow in their overwhelming insignificance.

TAM
I think it would be spectacular if they got a dose of what WAC dishes out.
CIT CULT deserves to taste what they are dishing out IMHO.
Bobert is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th June 2009, 03:50 PM   #110
Bobert
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,126
LOL spoofed my IP and Aldo Bit!!!!!
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
Oh man he is sooooo easy!
Bobert is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th June 2009, 10:46 PM   #111
Klimax
NWO Cyborg 5960x (subversion VPUNPCKHQDQ)
 
Klimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Starship Wanderer - DS9
Posts: 13,017
Originally Posted by Bobert View Post
LOL spoofed my IP and Aldo Bit!!!!!
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
Oh man he is sooooo easy!
What have done to him?
And where you got him?
__________________
ModBorg

Engine: Ibalgin 400
Klimax is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th June 2009, 11:52 PM   #112
JoeyDonuts
Frequencies Not Known To Normals
 
JoeyDonuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 10,536
Originally Posted by Pinch View Post
I've never heard of Lankford, but no doubt is another one of the moonbats with a butt load of flight hours who has bought into the Woo, probably for some attention. He'll get ego strokes from Cap't Bob and that'll cement the cult-of-personality environment there.
I'm a little suspect of the "32 Air Medals" claim. Ok more than a little. Reheat or Beachnut - How plausible is this?

ETA: Ok, now I'm REALLY suspect. Apparently Col. Bud Day, a Korea/Vietnam combat pilot who is cited as the most decorated US servicemember since Gen. Douglas McArthur only has ten Air Medals. Do they really think this Lankford character was more decorated than him? I smell a rat - a big one.
__________________
EXIT STAGE LEFT! EXIT STAGE RIGHT! THERE IS NO PLACE TO RUN; ALL THE FUSES IN THE EXIT SIGNS HAVE BEEN BURNED OUT!

Last edited by JoeyDonuts; 4th June 2009 at 11:57 PM.
JoeyDonuts is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th June 2009, 12:27 AM   #113
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,515
Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts View Post
I'm a little suspect of the "32 Air Medals" claim. Ok more than a little. Reheat or Beachnut - How plausible is this?

ETA: Ok, now I'm REALLY suspect. Apparently Col. Bud Day, a Korea/Vietnam combat pilot who is cited as the most decorated US servicemember since Gen. Douglas McArthur only has ten Air Medals. Do they really think this Lankford character was more decorated than him? I smell a rat - a big one.
Plausible! In Vietnam you could rack up the medals as fast as you could type them up for legitimate missions. Lankford could earn 32 Air Medals and deserver more; very possible. There are other examples of 32 Air Medals being earned.

His 32 Air Medals did not save him from pushing lies and delusions on 911.
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th June 2009, 03:03 AM   #114
Pinch
Critical Thinker
 
Pinch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts View Post
I'm a little suspect of the "32 Air Medals" claim. Ok more than a little. Reheat or Beachnut - How plausible is this?

ETA: Ok, now I'm REALLY suspect. Apparently Col. Bud Day, a Korea/Vietnam combat pilot who is cited as the most decorated US servicemember since Gen. Douglas McArthur only has ten Air Medals. Do they really think this Lankford character was more decorated than him? I smell a rat - a big one.
As Reheat said, plausible. You received an air medal for every 10 combat missions. My dad received 25 for 250 missions over 2 tours. Here's his jet after 1 tour back in 66.

Don't know how Lankford ended up with more air medals than his "302" combat missions would have earned, though.

The Marines flew the A-4 a pantload in Vietnam, so he could have earned them with that platform. His "10,000" hours, though, seemed to be tied to the C-130, and unless it was a Spectre gunship, I don't know how he would have gotten any combat time in the Herc. Spectre was a AF asset, though, so unless he was on an exchange mission, don't know how that works out.

Plausible, but weird.
__________________
"There's this thing about being so "open minded" your brain falls out". --Unknown

Last edited by Pinch; 5th June 2009 at 03:56 AM. Reason: edited to change "fair amount" to "pantload" to accurately reflect the use of the A-4 by the USMC in Vietnam
Pinch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th June 2009, 06:06 AM   #115
Reheat
Illuminator
 
Reheat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In Space
Posts: 3,675
Originally Posted by Pinch View Post
As Reheat beachnut said, plausible. You received an air medal for every 10 combat missions.
You confused beachnut with me. It is plausible if he served more than 1 tour and if he was a helicopter pilot. IIRC, the Air Force rules were 1 per 10 missions in areas of NV proper. Otherwise, it was 1 per 20 missions in all other areas. Air Medals could also be awarded for other notable achievements, but that was not common.

It is not plausible for a fixed wing pilot to earn that many unless he was there for numerous tours.

ETA: Marine pilots in Marine Units either helicopter or fixed wing did not fly in NV very much (if at all). They mostly supported Marine ground units. My flying was in NV and Laos and I can not recall ever encountering a Marine aircraft or hearing one on frequency. It was virtually all AF and Navy with a very few Army fixed wing on occasion. The other possibility is that he could have been assigned to a Navy Carrier. In that case and with multiple tours it is plausible.
__________________
[Noc]

Last edited by Reheat; 5th June 2009 at 06:19 AM.
Reheat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th June 2009, 06:57 AM   #116
Pinch
Critical Thinker
 
Pinch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
You confused beachnut with me. It is plausible if he served more than 1 tour and if he was a helicopter pilot. IIRC, the Air Force rules were 1 per 10 missions in areas of NV proper. Otherwise, it was 1 per 20 missions in all other areas. Air Medals could also be awarded for other notable achievements, but that was not common.
Apologies. Edit capability time is passed else I'd change it.

Quote:
It is not plausible for a fixed wing pilot to earn that many unless he was there for numerous tours.
Concur. AF mission limit, IIRC, was usually 100 missions. Navy had no restrictions, as far as I know, as evidenced by my dad's 250 missions over two carrier deployments. USMC? No idea, but I suspect they would be similar to Navy, however shore-based mission limitations might have been in place.

Quote:
The other possibility is that he could have been assigned to a Navy Carrier. In that case and with multiple tours it is plausible.
Nope. VMA(AW)-224 "Bengals" out of MCAS Cherry Point, North Carolina was only USMC squadron flying carrier strikes, which it did from USS Coral Sea between November 1971 and July 1972 in the A-6A Intruder, which is not on Lankford's resume.

Wonder if we have somewhat of another Tom Harkin here? Harkin, of course, claimed he flew combat missions in Vietnam until Barry Goldwater called him on that and it turned out all Harkin did, Navy pilot that he was, was ferry aircraft from Japan to the Philippines.
__________________
"There's this thing about being so "open minded" your brain falls out". --Unknown
Pinch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th June 2009, 07:37 AM   #117
Reheat
Illuminator
 
Reheat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In Space
Posts: 3,675
We'll get it right eventually.....

Originally Posted by Pinch View Post
Concur. AF mission limit, IIRC, was usually 100 missions. Navy had no restrictions, as far as I know, as evidenced by my dad's 250 missions over two carrier deployments. USMC? No idea, but I suspect they would be similar to Navy, however shore-based mission limitations might have been in place.
No, the AF had no actual limit, but when one flew 100 Missions into ROUTE PACK 6 IN North Vietnam that individual could then move to a staff job or not be assigned to fly into Route Pack 6. For that reason, some flew more than 100 TO ROUTE PACK 6. Most everyone had more than 100 mission if they were there for a full tour.

In all other areas to include the Southern area of North Vietnam and Laos, Vietnam, etc. there was no magic number or no opt out with a specified number of missions.

I agree that the Navy had no magic number of missions that I know about.

During some stages the Navy flew more than one mission per day in fighters. The AF rarely did that in fighters. Usually, it was one and finished. Don't know about Marines.

Originally Posted by Pinch View Post
Nope. VMA(AW)-224 "Bengals" out of MCAS Cherry Point, North Carolina was only USMC squadron flying carrier strikes, which it did from USS Coral Sea between November 1971 and July 1972 in the A-6A Intruder, which is not on Lankford's resume.
I haven't seen his resume. Could you post a link? What I was referring to was an exchange type assignment to a ship, not necessarily an assignment as a unit.

I'll have a better feel for the plausibility of those medals if I can see what he did.....
__________________
[Noc]
Reheat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th June 2009, 08:59 AM   #118
Pinch
Critical Thinker
 
Pinch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
I haven't seen his resume. Could you post a link? What I was referring to was an exchange type assignment to a ship, not necessarily an assignment as a unit.

I'll have a better feel for the plausibility of those medals if I can see what he did.....
Not so much a resume as a list of a/c he flew. You've probably seen it - the blurb on Cap'n Bob's "I Love Us" page:

Lt. Colonel Shelton F. Lankford
United States Marine Corps (ret)A-4 Skyhawk, KC-130 (10,000+ hours)
S-2, T-1, F9F, F-11, OV-10, T2J
303 Combat Missions


For the most part it is a list of museum a/c - the S-2, F9F, F-11, T-2J - all a/c from the late 50's and 60's.

A lot of those hours probably came from tanking missions. The Gas Station Herc can stay up a looooong time.

The other info came from the event blurb: "...fighter pilot with 300+ combat missions and 10,000+ hours flight time. Awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, and 32 Air Medals."

I might have an issue with "fighter pilot", but some of those a/c from the late 50's are fighter aircraft, so I suppose if a high-time C-130 and A-4 light attack jet pilot wants to call himself a "fighter" guy, whatever.

Interesting, though, how that "300+ combat missions" comes right after "fighter pilot", giving the impression he was raging around the skies of North Vietnam in an F-4 Phantom fighter aircraft, firing off sparrows and sidewinders all day. Again, if it is what turns them on, so be it.
__________________
"There's this thing about being so "open minded" your brain falls out". --Unknown
Pinch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th June 2009, 09:38 AM   #119
Reheat
Illuminator
 
Reheat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In Space
Posts: 3,675
Originally Posted by Pinch View Post
Lt. Colonel Shelton F. Lankford
United States Marine Corps (ret)A-4 Skyhawk, KC-130 (10,000+ hours)
S-2, T-1, F9F, F-11, OV-10, T2J
303 Combat Missions
Well, that helps a lot. The only aircraft he could have flown in combat during Vietnam would have been the A-4 and/or the *OV-10 (after about 1969).

Navy A-4's flew into North Vietnam very early on. I doubt any flew there any later than about '67 or so. I do not know if any Marine A-4's flew those missions or not, but I doubt it. The reason I doubt it is that Marine aircraft were not included in the Big Air Tasking Order as were AF and Navy aircraft. Marine aircraft supported Marine units. It has been a "bone of contention" among the Services for years.

OV-10's flew predominantly in South Vietnam, perhaps briefly and very, very rarely in either the border areas of Laos and the extreme Southern portion of North Vietnam.

303 Combat Missions tells the story. In order to have 32 Air Medals ALL of those mission would have to have been in North Vietnam, PLUS a few more for extraordinary achievement which would have met the criteria for an Air Medal. I think we now have the answer to the original question.

* The AF received the first OV-10's in 1968/1969. None were operational prior to 1969. There was a small contingent of AF OV-10's in Thailand on an initial operational/combat evaluation test program which began in the Spring of 1969. They were not used in any numbers until sometime in 1970 and afterward.
__________________
[Noc]
Reheat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th June 2009, 02:19 PM   #120
BasqueArch
Graduate Poster
 
BasqueArch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,869
Originally Posted by Pinch View Post
Not so much a resume as a list of a/c he flew. You've probably seen it - the blurb on Cap'n Bob's "I Love Us" page:

Lt. Colonel Shelton F. Lankford
United States Marine Corps (ret)A-4 Skyhawk, KC-130 (10,000+ hours)
S-2, T-1, F9F, F-11, OV-10, T–2J
303 Combat Missions


For the most part it is a list of museum a/c - the S-2, F9F, F-11, T-2J - all a/c from the late 50's and 60's.


The other info came from the event blurb: "...fighter pilot with 300+ combat missions and 10,000+ hours flight time. Awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, and 32 Air Medals."

.

I looked for him in the roster of the Distinguished Flying Cross Society - couldn't find him.
http://www.dfcsociety.org/citations....0&nav_letter=L

"Our Society was not founded until 1994 and is composed or DFC recipients who either joined the Society or whose loved ones made them members posthumously and their names are listed on our Honor Roll in perpetuity. "
http://www.dfcsociety.org/home_high.htm

There's an Honor Roll listing more recipients - not there either.

... " A | B | C | D | E | F | G | H | I | J | K | L | M | N | O | P | Q | R | S | T | U | V | W | X | Y | Z

Bruce H LaChance, Francis L Lacy, Joseph C. Laden, James V. LaGrossa, Raymond Lahmeyer, John G. Lahue, Frank W. Laird Jr., Charles Lajeskie, Richard H. Lake, Neal C Lakenan, Clarence A Lakin, Robert K. Lakin, Martin T Lally, Herbert J Laman, Allen T. Lamb, Jr., Darrell Lambert, Francis M. Lambert, William P Lamkin, Kenneth W LaMone, John A. LaMontia, Richard E. Lamp, John R Lampkins, Kasper O. Lamvik, Otis Lancaster, Henry W. Land II, Seymour Landau, Carl Lane, Charles E. Lane, D. Roger Lane, Phillip J. Lane, William F. Laney, William P. Laney, Neal E. Lang, James A. Lange, Paul D. Lange, Donald W. Langston, Michael D. Langston, Jessey W. Lankford, Morris William Larkin, Erwin A LaRose, Darrel E Larsen, Glen Larsen, Gordon O. Larsen, Frank A. Larsen Jr., Robert L. Larsh Jr., Gordon A Larson, Melvin F. Larson, Richard L Larson, Irving Lash, Peter I. Lasho, Thomas E. Lasser, Raymond F Latall, Gilbert C. Lattimer, James E Laubaugh, Marvin Laufer, Edwin ... "

http://www.dfcsociety.org/honorroll....0&nav_letter=L

Last edited by BasqueArch; 5th June 2009 at 02:53 PM.
BasqueArch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:29 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.