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Tags mediums , psychics

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Old 13th November 2019, 04:16 PM   #1
Cris
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How to explain this fact?

The medium created the drawing, in my house and in the presence of twenty witnesses of the portrait of a young woman who had been dead for eighteen months and whom he did not know, a portrait recognized by the young woman's father present at the session.
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Old 13th November 2019, 04:19 PM   #2
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translation correction
a man with mediumship drawing.

Last edited by Cris; 13th November 2019 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 13th November 2019, 04:21 PM   #3
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who cares?
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Old 13th November 2019, 04:22 PM   #4
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How to explain this fact?
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Old 13th November 2019, 04:23 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
who cares?
what is the cause of this fact?
can you explain?
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Old 13th November 2019, 04:39 PM   #6
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Confirmation bias.
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Old 13th November 2019, 04:45 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Elaedith View Post
Confirmation bias.
This. Draw a vague picture and a bereaved will think it kinda resembles a dear departed.
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Old 13th November 2019, 04:50 PM   #8
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T'internet.
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Old 13th November 2019, 04:57 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
This. Draw a vague picture and a bereaved will think it kinda resembles a dear departed.
wrong, only the father knew what his daughter looked like.
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Old 13th November 2019, 04:59 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
T'internet.
only the father knew.
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Old 13th November 2019, 04:59 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
The medium created the drawing, in my house and in the presence of twenty witnesses of the portrait of a young woman who had been dead for eighteen months and whom he did not know, a portrait recognized by the young woman's father present at the session.
... but had seen pictures of.
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Old 13th November 2019, 05:05 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
only the father knew.
Did he keep her in a locked room her whole life?

The simplest explanation is that the medium researched the guest list ahead of time, practiced a bit with the drawing, and used well known psychological patterns to sell the trick during the session.

Do you have a better one?
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Old 13th November 2019, 05:11 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Did he keep her in a locked room her whole life?

The simplest explanation is that the medium researched the guest list ahead of time, practiced a bit with the drawing, and used well known psychological patterns to sell the trick during the session.

Do you have a better one?
wrong.
You cannot generalize.
and the session was free.
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Old 13th November 2019, 05:17 PM   #14
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Um, yeah, selling the trick isn't about money.
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Old 13th November 2019, 05:18 PM   #15
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Did the father happen to have a photo/picture of the daughter with him that could be compared with the drawing?
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Old 13th November 2019, 05:19 PM   #16
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There are several unsupported statements and assumptions in your story.

The first is that you are reporting a real event as you remember it. Which I will accept.
The second is that you remember it correctly.
Third, that the father in the story did recognize the portrait as his daughter.
Fourth, that the daughter existed.
Fifth, that only the father had ever seen her.
Sixth, that the medium had never seen a photo, or heard a description of her.
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Old 13th November 2019, 05:26 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Myles View Post
Did the father happen to have a photo/picture of the daughter with him that could be compared with the drawing?
not
only the father knew the daughter.
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Old 13th November 2019, 05:28 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
what is the cause of this fact?
can you explain?
Yes. I can perform feats of apparently impossible mind reading that nobody can work out using trivially easy techniques. This has over time developed into a tradition of me providing a miracle after christmas dinner. Every year, I have to come up with a new magical feat. I am currently practicing the boggling feat for this years christmas dinner. Last weekend, I gave it a trial run to my eldest child. He knows in advance that I am pulling a fast one, so when he says "How the <bleep> did you do that?" I am on the fast track to another successful stunt. This is how the illusionist works.Most of the time it all depends on the performer knowing things that the audience does not. or has forgotten. Or has been intentionally misdirected about. Or was not paying attention to to.
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Old 13th November 2019, 05:32 PM   #19
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So none of the 20 witnesses, including you, could verify the likeness in the drawing?
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Old 13th November 2019, 05:45 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Yes. I can perform feats of apparently impossible mind reading that nobody can work out using trivially easy techniques. This has over time developed into a tradition of me providing a miracle after christmas dinner. Every year, I have to come up with a new magical feat. I am currently practicing the boggling feat for this years christmas dinner. Last weekend, I gave it a trial run to my eldest child. He knows in advance that I am pulling a fast one, so when he says "How the <bleep> did you do that?" I am on the fast track to another successful stunt. This is how the illusionist works.Most of the time it all depends on the performer knowing things that the audience does not. or has forgotten. Or has been intentionally misdirected about. Or was not paying attention to to.
You should not generalize.
Try another explanation.
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Old 13th November 2019, 05:47 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Shrinker View Post
So none of the 20 witnesses, including you, could verify the likeness in the drawing?
I already said only the father knew the daughter
what is your explanation?
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Old 13th November 2019, 05:49 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
You should not generalize.
We have to, because -- as you probably well know -- we do not and cannot have access to all the facts. We cannot develop evidence on our own to investigate. We have no way of knowing whether the facts you are recounting are your best recollection, are true and complete, or -- as your colleague Ricardo showed us -- intentionally made up to stump us.

If you're not willing to be satisfied with general answers, don't make us try to explain second- or third-hand anecdotes.
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Old 13th November 2019, 05:49 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
not
only the father knew the daughter.
Did you happen to take a photo of the portrait that you could share here?
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Old 13th November 2019, 05:50 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
I already said only the father knew the daughter
what is your explanation?
What is yours?
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:00 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
You should not generalize.
Utter rot. I have no choice but to generalise. Why? Because your anecdotes are so vague that I must perforce guess your intended meaning. If, as you claim, you are unable to make yourself plainly understood, Ricardo, then the problem is yours and yours alone. Not anyone else's.

Originally Posted by Cris View Post
Try another explanation.
There are no explanations that either...
A. you would accept

and

B. vaguely understand.

What would be the point?
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:07 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
We have to, because -- as you probably well know -- we do not and cannot have access to all the facts. We cannot develop evidence on our own to investigate. We have no way of knowing whether the facts you are recounting are your best recollection, are true and complete, or -- as your colleague Ricardo showed us -- intentionally made up to stump us.

If you're not willing to be satisfied with general answers, don't make us try to explain second- or third-hand anecdotes.
It is not an invention.
I have other evidence.
but for you it's just anecdotal evidence.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:09 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
wrong.
You cannot generalize.
and the session was free.
Of course you can generalize. It's a generalized scenario. Give specific details, if you want a more specific explanation.

And "selling" in this case means "making a convincing show", not "exchanging for money".
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:10 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
What is yours?
the spirits.
they drew the girl through the person with mediumship

Now what is your explanation of this fact?
what is the cause?
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:10 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
not
only the father knew the daughter.
Not plausible.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:13 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
the spirits.
So all this attempt at discussing the roots of skepticism and the moral nature of mediumship was a sham. You're a believer in spirits and mediums.

Quote:
Now what is your explanation of this fact?
what is the cause?
I say you made the story up. I have as much evidence for that explanation as you do that some "spirit" drew the picture. Except mine is more parsimonious.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:17 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
It is not an invention.
I have other evidence.
but for you it's just anecdotal evidence.
Yes, you're playing the standard believer's game of giving us a the cherry-picked version of an anecdote just so you can make a point of others' inability to find a prosaic solution. The last guy who tried that, your fellow countryman, finally had to admit he made it all up. So the first thing you have to do is prove to us that none of the details of this story are made up. Get to it.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:18 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
the spirits.
Don't generalize.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:23 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
The medium created the drawing, in my house and in the presence of twenty witnesses of the portrait of a young woman who had been dead for eighteen months and whom he did not know, a portrait recognized by the young woman's father present at the session.

Do you have any evidence at all that any of this happened?

Do you have contact information for the medium?

Do you have contact information for the father?

Do you have contact information for the twenty witnesses?

Do you have the picture that was drawn?

Can the father provide a likeness of his daughter apart from the picture?

Can you explain how the daughter went her whole life without having a picture taken of her?

Can you explain how the daughter went her whole life without ever interacting with anyone who could describe her appearance?

I pick a person from the audience. I ask him to pick a card but not tell me or show the audience. I throw the whole deck in the air. I catch one card. I show it to the person and he confirms that was his card. Can you explain how I did it?
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:24 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Yes, you're playing the standard believer's game of giving us a the cherry-picked version of an anecdote just so you can make a point of others' inability to find a prosaic solution. The last guy who tried that, your fellow countryman, finally had to admit he made it all up. So the first thing you have to do is prove to us that none of the details of this story are made up. Get to it.
All you can't explain is invention.
stop generalizing.
admit that you cannot explain this fact.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:24 PM   #35
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No one knew the daughter. Did you know the father?
It sounds like he was a stranger to the rest of the audience. Can you tell us anything more about how you all came to be together?

One simple explanation is fraud. The father was a plant.

You said that the session was free, but was he selling other services?
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:26 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
I already said only the father knew the daughter
what is your explanation?
My explanation is that the likeness wasn't all that remarkable, but the guy spoke up anyway in the hope/fear that this was his one chance to connect with his dead daughter. You and 20 or so people lapped it up despite having no idea whether the drawing resembled the girl or not.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:31 PM   #37
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Plot twist: Cris is the father.

The "father" is actually Mother Gothel, and the daughter is actually Rapunzel. It's actually true that nobody knows what she looks like. And the explanation really is magic, because it's a fairy tale world after all.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:36 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
All you can't explain is invention.
Meaningless gibberish.

Quote:
stop generalizing.
Asked and answered. As long as all you have is a vague description of an event that may or may not have happened, only general, speculative answers are possible. No one is obliged to meet a standard that is incompatible with the quality of the evidence.

Quote:
admit that you cannot explain this fact.
You haven't shown that it's a fact. All we have is your story. Provide the evidence Loss Leader asked for, or admit that you refuse.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:40 PM   #39
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Scan in and post the drawing and a photo of the girl.

If you can't, we will assume it never happened.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:50 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Meaningless gibberish.



Asked and answered. As long as all you have is a vague description of an event that may or may not have happened, only general, speculative answers are possible. No one is obliged to meet a standard that is incompatible with the quality of the evidence.



You haven't shown that it's a fact. All we have is your story. Provide the evidence Loss Leader asked for, or admit that you refuse.
I'm going to study skepticism
better not continue on this subject about spirits
I can learn about skepticism here in this forum
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