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Tags islam , koran

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Old 17th April 2019, 04:10 AM   #1321
Emre_1974tr
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The Polytheists believe in God, the Quran tells it very clearly:

-And verily, if you ask them: "Who created the heavens and the earth?" Surely, they will say: "Allah (has created them)." Say: "Tell me then, the things that you invoke besides Allah, if Allah intended some harm for me, could they remove His harm, or if He (Allah) intended some mercy for me, could they withhold His Mercy?" Say: "Sufficient for me is Allah; in Him those who trust (i.e. believers) must put their trust."
Az-Zumar:38

And Quran repeatedly states that atheists do not believe in God.

69:33 For he did not acknowledge God, the Great.

4:38 Those who spend their money to show-off to the people, and they do not acknowledge God or the Last day. Whoever has the devil as his companion, then what a miserable companion!

52:35 Or were they created from nothing? Or was it they who created?

------

And The Qur'an states that the polytheists know that the idons they worship are false.

10:28 And on the Day We gather them all, then We will say to those who were polytheists: "Stop where you are, you and your partners," then We will separate between them, and their partners will say: "It was not us that you served!"
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Old 17th April 2019, 05:01 AM   #1322
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The Polytheists believe in God
Polytheists have nothing to do with any of the topics being discussed in this thread. Why do you keep bringing them up?

Who are the people you think are "Christian Missionaries" in the two threads you've been participating in? If you can't back up that accusation, then we will all take that as a concession that you lied about that claim.

What is, in your own words, a Christian?

What is, in your own words, an atheist?

What is, in your own words, the difference between a Christian and an atheist?
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Old 17th April 2019, 05:38 AM   #1323
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The Polytheists...
No part of this debate is about polytheism. Part of making a good argument is knowing which topics are relevant and which aren't.

Quote:
And Quran repeatedly states that atheists do not believe in God.
The Qur'an talks about people who don't believe in the Muslim god.

Quote:
52:35 Or were they created from nothing? Or was it they who created?
The creation story is only tangentially related to deism versus atheism. The Buddhists, for example, are not atheists, but they don't believe in a creator god. As usual, you have no clue what's being debated, in any language.

Although your critics identify as atheist, you have insisted that at least some are "Christian missionaries." You have been asked either to name them and support that accusation with facts, or to withdraw it. Instead you insist on repeating long-debunked portions of irrelevant previous debate. Shall we conclude you are being deliberately evasive?
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Old 17th April 2019, 05:47 AM   #1324
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Although your critics identify as atheist, you have insisted that at least some are "Christian missionaries." You have been asked either to name them and support that accusation with facts, or to withdraw it. Instead you insist on repeating long-debunked portions of irrelevant previous debate. Shall we conclude you are being deliberately evasive?
I think at this point we can conclude that Emre_1974tr has conceded they cannot support the "Christian Missionaries" claim. Emre_1974tr has stopped using the accusation and has refused to even attempt to defend it. While this concession is implied and not explicit, it is still a concession.

Furthermore, it's clear that Emre_1974tr cannot describe an atheist or a Christian without quoting the Koran, a further concession that they have no comprehension of the topics at hand, but instead relies upon parroting, possibly plagiarizing, discussions available elsewhere. Not actually understanding what an atheist or a Christian is would be consistent with the other "arguments" Emre_1974tr has put fourth in these threads.

While an explicit admission on these points would be preferred, more than enough evidence has accumulated for an implied concession.
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Old 17th April 2019, 09:05 AM   #1325
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I think at this point we can conclude that Emre_1974tr has conceded they cannot support the "Christian Missionaries" claim. Emre_1974tr has stopped using the accusation and has refused to even attempt to defend it. While this concession is implied and not explicit, it is still a concession.
It was obvious long before this point that he couldn't defend it and didn't intend to. But while it's prudent for us to treat the claim as if it has been conceded, it's equally important to point out that it hasn't been. Abandoning the claim isn't the same as conceding it, and the division between debate and meta-debate doesn't always align with questions of relevance and probative value.

At this point we can clearly say that Emre is wrong when he says he is beset here by "Christian missionaries." That complaint never had a factual basis. But at this point we can also say that when Emre is wrong, he will not admit it, which either disproves or explains -- depending on perspective -- his claim that he is never wrong in this forum. His claim to infallibility is an unstated premise to lots of his arguments. And his narcissistic insistence on pontification informs his critics' decision to continue the debate.

But point well taken: there's little additional value in belaboring his dishonest accusations.

Quote:
Furthermore, it's clear that Emre_1974tr cannot describe an atheist or a Christian without quoting the Koran...
That's less attributable to evasion, since it was specifically put to him that the Qur'an does not distinguish between atheists and other non-Muslims. With that question on the table, it makes sense to quote from the Qur'an in order to answer it. Any question of the form, "That source doesn't discuss this topic" can be answered correctly only on the basis of quotations from the source. In this case, his answer fails because he's understanding the Qur'an poorly.

But there is also the companion question on the table, which is for him to describe -- as you insist -- in his own words the detailed differences between kinds of faith and no faith. This he has utterly failed to do, and he seems to think his copypasta from the Qur'an has done the job. Contrapositively, questions of the form, "Describe in your own words..." cannot be answered correctly on the basis of quotations from some source.
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Old 17th April 2019, 10:21 AM   #1326
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The Polytheists believe in God
<gibber snip>
So what? They're not being discussed here.
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Old 17th April 2019, 06:44 PM   #1327
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The Polytheists believe in God, the Quran tells it very clearly:

-And verily, if you ask them: "Who created the heavens and the earth?" Surely, they will say: "Allah (has created them)." Say: "Tell me then, the things that you invoke besides Allah, if Allah intended some harm for me, could they remove His harm, or if He (Allah) intended some mercy for me, could they withhold His Mercy?" Say: "Sufficient for me is Allah; in Him those who trust (i.e. believers) must put their trust."
Az-Zumar:38

And Quran repeatedly states that atheists do not believe in God.

69:33 For he did not acknowledge God, the Great.

4:38 Those who spend their money to show-off to the people, and they do not acknowledge God or the Last day. Whoever has the devil as his companion, then what a miserable companion!

52:35 Or were they created from nothing? Or was it they who created?

------

And The Qur'an states that the polytheists know that the idons they worship are false.

10:28 And on the Day We gather them all, then We will say to those who were polytheists: "Stop where you are, you and your partners," then We will separate between them, and their partners will say: "It was not us that you served!"

Emre, I finally have to confess here in front of everyone..

I'm a polytheist disguised as an atheist.

You came pretty close to identifying me correctly.

That said, I believe there are only two gods.

It only makes more sense.

If one god can exist all by itself, so can two.

And despite what Allah says about multi gods, in his attempt to prove his singleness, that is "interfering with each other's work thus causing commotion in the universe, and the universe going haywire"; my faith teaches me that collaboration yields better results, not commotion.
And since gods are smarter than us humans they would rather collaborate than fight.

My evidence for this is the world we live in.
Look at large corporations, the stuff they can accomplish by coming together is amazing.
I'm self employed and work alone.
I am so limited in my abilities compared to larger companies that consist of multi partners.

The reason I believe that there are two gods is that humans reproduce from females and males.
This must only be a divine hint.
It only makes sense "if" everything is created.
How clearer can this be..

Tell me why I should go to hellfire for my honest faith ?
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Old 18th April 2019, 02:36 AM   #1328
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The Polytheists believe in God, the Quran tells it very clearly:

-And verily, if you ask them: "Who created the heavens and the earth?" Surely, they will say: "Allah (has created them)." Say: "Tell me then, the things that you invoke besides Allah, if Allah intended some harm for me, could they remove His harm, or if He (Allah) intended some mercy for me, could they withhold His Mercy?" Say: "Sufficient for me is Allah; in Him those who trust (i.e. believers) must put their trust."
Az-Zumar:38

And Quran repeatedly states that atheists do not believe in God.

69:33 For he did not acknowledge God, the Great.

4:38 Those who spend their money to show-off to the people, and they do not acknowledge God or the Last day. Whoever has the devil as his companion, then what a miserable companion!

52:35 Or were they created from nothing? Or was it they who created?

------

And The Qur'an states that the polytheists know that the idons they worship are false.

10:28 And on the Day We gather them all, then We will say to those who were polytheists: "Stop where you are, you and your partners," then We will separate between them, and their partners will say: "It was not us that you served!"

These verses also tell, polytheists that they believe in Allah. In short, the Quran is the only book that best describes the difference of atheist and polytheists.

29:65 When they ride on a ship, they call on Allah, devoting the system to Him. But as soon as He saves them to the shore, they set up partners.

30:33 If harm afflicts the people, they call out sincerely to their Lord. But then, when He gives them a taste of His mercy, a group of them set up partners with their Lord!
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Old 18th April 2019, 02:48 AM   #1329
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
These verses also tell, polytheists that they believe in Allah. In short, the Quran is the only book that best describes the difference of atheist and polytheists.

29:65 When they ride on a ship, they call on Allah, devoting the system to Him. But as soon as He saves them to the shore, they set up partners.

30:33 If harm afflicts the people, they call out sincerely to their Lord. But then, when He gives them a taste of His mercy, a group of them set up partners with their Lord!
Since when do atheists call out to allah?
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Old 18th April 2019, 03:49 AM   #1330
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Since when do atheists call out to allah?
They are Polytheists.

I also gave the verses that mention atheists.
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Old 18th April 2019, 04:28 AM   #1331
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
They are Polytheists.

I also gave the verses that mention atheists.
Atheists are not polytheists. Atheists believe in no gods at all. Any verse that mentions calling out to allah or any other gods is by definition not referring to atheists AT ALL.
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Old 18th April 2019, 07:11 AM   #1332
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
They are Polytheists.

I also gave the verses that mention atheists.

There are all kinds of polytheists and most of them don't know Allah.
Maybe the ones that were around Mohammad in the 7th century knew about Allah. Good luck finding a politheist who also "call allah's name" when a ship is sinking..
Can't you see how funny you are, when you try to apply a 7th century regional "holy book" to the world we live in ?

Last edited by winter salt; 18th April 2019 at 07:14 AM.
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Old 18th April 2019, 07:29 AM   #1333
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Since when do atheists call out to allah?
They are Polytheists.

I also gave the verses that mention atheists.
Why do you keep prattling about polytheists? Are you hoping that babbling about an unrelated topic will make us forget you have yet to substantiate your claim that there are Christian missionaries in this thread? Are you hoping we'll stop asking you to use your own words to describe the difference between a Christian and an atheist?
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Old 18th April 2019, 07:47 AM   #1334
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
That's why the Christian missionaries in the forum panicked for the first time, and their voices began to vibrate.
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
There's a Couple of missionaries, and they're putting a couple of in every forum.
Who? Who on this forum do you think is a "Christian missionary?"

Why do you refuse to answer that question no matter how many times it's asked of you?
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Old 18th April 2019, 09:07 AM   #1335
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Mod WarningDue to the growing similarity of this thread with another thread, this thread has been closed. Please use the other thread to discuss the topic of the Quran & Islam.
Posted By:kmortis
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