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Tags bigfoot , Bob Gimlin , Patterson-Gimlin film , Roger Patterson

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Old 20th April 2012, 02:54 PM   #8161
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IMO the best part of Kit revelaling the suit will be watching some of the folks on the BFF completely lose it.
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Old 20th April 2012, 02:57 PM   #8162
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
IMO the best part of Kit revelaling the suit will be watching some of the folks on the BFF completely lose/deny it.
Fixed!
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Old 20th April 2012, 05:39 PM   #8163
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
IMO the best part of Kit revelaling the suit will be watching some of the folks on the BFF completely lose it.
Oh if he reveals the suit, I am so going to TOR my way back onto that board just for the lulz!!!
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Old 20th April 2012, 05:40 PM   #8164
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Fixed!
That "suit" should be tested for DNA, fingerprints, and other possible things ! Possibly at some later time ? When appropriate etc....
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Old 21st April 2012, 05:08 AM   #8165
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
IMO the best part of Kit revelaling the suit will be watching some of the folks on the BFF completely lose it.
It will take an gold plated provenance and a signed and notorized statement from Gimlin, De Atley, or Patty Patterson (preferably all three), for the suit to be accepted by bleevers. Lacking that, the bleevers will deny it is The Suit.


1) We should not accept KK's claim blindly that he has found The Suit.
He could be hoaxing/lying.

2) He could be the victim of an hoax/lie.

3) He has found the suit but there is now way to prove it.

4) He has found the suit and the circumstanial evidence is strong.

5) The provenance in gold plated. It is The Suit.

If I had finished my coffee I could probably think of more possibilities. But in any event I will remain skeptical until KK presents his evidence some years, if ever, in the future.
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Old 21st April 2012, 07:41 AM   #8166
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Tricky stuff...
I must say I am... Pessimistic about the odds of the costume having been found.
Let's suppose he found it.
To endorse the chain of custody of such a thing and its use in the film seem very hard tasks. Even if such goals are reached, die-hards will not change their positions. Expect fraud and conspiracy accusations, denials and emotional appeals among other things. We are talking about people who already have at their disposal lots of evidence pointing towards a fraud but are still clinging to one of the key points of their faith.
We all saw how some of these folks are blind to obvious signs of hoax, how they deny the similarities with costumes from those days, etc.
For some, even a "we fooled you folks" Gimlim statement would not be enough.
And at last but not at least, someone might be fooling him. Such things are not exactly unheard among bigfootery.
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Old 21st April 2012, 04:22 PM   #8167
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Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
Of course it would be fun to see a suit, and conjecture on its provenance and whether it is "THE" suit or not. The topic alone would keep skeptics and enthusiasts alike entertained well into the foreseeable future...
No truer statement will be made today.

Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
...For some, even a "we fooled you folks" Gimlim statement would not be enough...
Which would in turn clearly point out the ones with untreatable mental illness.

Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
...And at last but not at least, someone might be fooling him. Such things are not exactly unheard among bigfootery.
I'm 100% confident that's a 99.9% possibility. Although, while I'm concerned Kitakaze seems to be mimicking The Melba's PR tactics, I do believe he is sharp enough to spot a fraud and honest enough to say it if he's had any real exposure to it. We gotta wonder what it is he's seen so as to proffer allusions to the unlikely conclusion it's the 'real deal'.
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Old 21st April 2012, 05:18 PM   #8168
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Originally Posted by clayflingythingy View Post
It will take an gold plated provenance and a signed and notorized statement from Gimlin, De Atley, or Patty Patterson (preferably all three), for the suit to be accepted by bleevers. Lacking that, the bleevers will deny it is The Suit.


1) We should not accept KK's claim blindly that he has found The Suit.
He could be hoaxing/lying.
I agree that you should not accept my claim blindly and that naturally there should be the consideration that I am lying/hoaxing the Bigfoot community. We've learned our lesson here at the JREF with a skeptic lying and pretending to be someone he was not and do things he had not with LongtabberPE.

Personally, I am starting to kick myself in the ass for ever having been stupid enough to say anything prematurely. I'm in a very tricky situation where the more attention I bring on my claim, the more risk I create of shooting myself in the foot and losing the suit. Not just me losing the suit, but the suit being gone period.

All I can say is that it is only natural to be skeptical of my claim and right now more than anything, I wish I had never made it until the time is right. I'm going to basically try and say as little as possible until the situation is more stable. There is a handful of skeptics here that have been trusted friends for years who know something about what I am dealing with. I'm not asking for any free passes from them or from people that don't know what I'm dealing with. I'm not going to come here and keep making unverifiable claims. Proving the PGF is a hoax is an extremely difficult thing and half of it is because many believers are a part of the problem with their instransigence. Right now I need to be working more on this situation and talking less, which is exactly what I am going to be doing now.
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Old 21st April 2012, 10:24 PM   #8169
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Peter Byrne, Nepal, and PGF pre-history

Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
The lore existed prior to 1967, and people who think they've seen one will still think they've seen one.

Thanks for anticipating that. Because the "lore" that existed before is even less credible than the PGF.

We have some pretty dopy stories, but in terms of there being an alleged creature worthy of expeditionary funding to find - this dates back to the 1950's and the Yeti or Abominable Snowman of the Himilayas (Patterson having extended that to the US with his book Does the Abominable Snowman of America Really Exist:

http://www.amazon.com/Abominable-Sno.../dp/B0006BSZKK

We have to showcase Peter Byrne as the great-grandfather of the "bigfoot hunting" hoaxers here in the USA.

The term "Abominable Snowman" was coined by a journalist in 1921 and is simply without foundation as a translation of Nepalese. But it was this glitzy term that launched an imaginary beast into the popular imagination of western people, far from the Himalayas, that gave us Ray Wallace and then Roger Patterson.

Yeti is nothing more than a snow bear. The conflation of the abominable snowman (nonexistent) with the snow bear is convenient of course for people making money off that conflation, like Peter Byrne. Military service brought Peter to India and from there he got into Big Game hunting Safaris.

Peter ran a hunting concession in Nepal's Sukila Phanta (White Grass Plains) from 1953 onward on the that he eventually turned into a wildlife conservation area (1968) because big game hunting declined, the modern conservation era emerged, and he saw it as a different way to make a living: Promoting expeditions for an animal that did not exist, and marketing the protection of the animals that really do exist.

http://www.internationalwildlife.org/founder.html

I don't have a lot of information on Peter Byrnes hunting Safaris in Nepal yet, but there isn't any question whatsoever that Yeti expeditions gained him more than ten years of full-time employment with a retinue of assistants & supplies at a time when hunting safaris went into decline and eventually ended altogether.

The government of Nepal had parallel interests in promoting Yeti expeditions. Nepal was making money off both climbing expeditions and hunting, which was in decline. Peter wasn't a climber, he was a soon to be less employed hunting guide seeing a future in marketing Yeti expeditions. His first phony "sighting" was in 1949, I believe, and demonstrates the long term planning he undertook with a Yeti/Bigfoot expeditionary career.

The Nepalese expedition permits were 5,000 rupees in 1959, which is roughly 200,000 of today's rupees because of inflation in India since 1959. So 200,000 rupees at current exchange rates of roughly 50 rupees per dollar makes it $4,000 of today's dollars for a Yeti permit in 1959. That was enough of a cash cow for the Nepalese bureaucracy to giggle all the way to the bank.

Byrne did a total of five paid Yeti expedtions averaging over seven and a half months each in Nepal - all outfitted in a way I am green with envy about. Way to go, Peter - I can understand how much fun it was, if your conscience doesn't bother you. This was five years of income plus the book he wrote, and then over 7.5 years more work in the US on bigfoot expeditions - nearly thirteen years of full time employment looking for Yeti/Bigfoot. Who knows how much the Nepalese government brought in total on Yeti expeditions, but Peter Byrne brought in over $20K in fees alone, plus all the porters he employed and supplies he bought - everyone in Nepal sure is happy with the industry.

Still selling the book and marketing what he can today out of that career:

http://petercbyrne.com/greatsearches.html

Peter went right from the middle of a Yeti expedition in Nepal to a Bigfoot expedition in California thanks to Ray Wallace in 1960. He spent two and a half years looking for bigfoot on Tom Slick's payroll before he was killed in an airplane accident. So he went back to Nepal enterprises until he got someone to finance his Project 111 for five years.


Peter also did rafting expeditions, Eco-Tourism/Photography and wrote a lot of books. So you have to view him as a guy that made a great living off of various outdoor adventure enterprises, and that he viewed the Yeti/Bigfoot hunting hoaxes as a highly profitable sideline. The bigfoot expeditions were far longer than any hunting safari.

So when you remove Roger Patterson and the PGF from Bigfoot Hunting hoax history, what do you have left as "most credible" predecessor? And the answer is great grandfather Peter Byrne, who also never found a bigfoot and didn't even get a film of one. Not even a blurry polaroid. But he was associated with a hoaxing-for-profit scheme at a monestary in Nepal. At Pangboche.

It seems that the Monestary was getting donations to view this hand and skull fragment. Peter Byrne apparently went there twice, and the second time stole a bone from the hand, replacing it with a human hand bone. He smuggled it to India and gave it to actor Jimmy Stewart to get out of the country. Can you believe this stuff? Better than fiction.

The scientists who looked at the hand - I don't remember. But Sir Edmund Hillary went to the Monestary in 1969 and declared it a hoax. So much for Peter Byrne's integrity. Peter also promoted Wallace-type bigfoot tracks as big expeditionary "finds" in his USA bigfoot career. He claimed to have found tracks and seen Yeti very early in his career in Nepal, but from then on simply relied on "investigating" the hoaxing of others. The fact he was a big game hunting guide gave him a lot of credibility he cashed in on.

Sorry for the length but the PGF is laid upon a foundation of the Yeti or Abominable snowman hoaxing industry in Nepal, which has Peter Byrne playing the leading role, and Ray Wallace hoaxed tracks in the USA. In other words, no foundation at all.

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Old 22nd April 2012, 04:47 AM   #8170
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Great essay on Byrne's legacy in bigfootery. You might be surprised though how many folks actually believe such drivel as Ostman and Ape Canyon, both of which date to the 1920s. Also, no matter what we write here on the JREF, folks are convinced that the natives had full knowledge of Bigfoot people going back thousands of years. (I guess the Bigfoot people were at first friendly to the Lost Tribe of Israel before they started stealing Hebrew/Indian children.)
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Old 22nd April 2012, 05:15 AM   #8171
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
That said, I'll still be surprised - really surprised - if the suit could be found. When I think like a hoaxer, I destroy the suit after seeing footage good enough to convince people that the film is authentic. Only a complete moron would risk keeping the suit! (I know others have argued reasons for keeping the suit; to me it's just obvious to destroy the suit to preserve the hoax.)
I agree with this. If I'm perpetrating this hoax, no way do I leave that suit around to be discovered. No way.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 08:24 AM   #8172
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There is no way I'd destroy the suit. As long as I have the suit I have evidence of the hoax in case I ever need it for whatever reason.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 08:24 AM   #8173
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@Jhunter: Maybe.

But if you rented the costume and didn't want to take any chances its owner would open his/hers mouth for not getting it back...

Or if you were afraid about burned bits of it being found at the dumpyard, maybe you'd think better to hide it at your or someone else's basement.

Or maybe you considered the possibility of more hoaxed films or pictures in the future, after the suckers dumped some money in your pocket, paying for your next expedition.

I bet there are other possibilities. Again, the hardest part of it all, IMHO, would be to make sure its indeed the costume.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 11:28 AM   #8174
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
You might be surprised though how many folks actually believe such drivel as Ostman and Ape Canyon, both of which date to the 1920s.
What percentage of the North American population says that they believe those stories? Then, what percentage of those people are actually telling the truth when they say that they believe those stories?
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Old 22nd April 2012, 11:30 AM   #8175
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
Or maybe you considered the possibility of more hoaxed films or pictures in the future, after the suckers dumped some money in your pocket, paying for your next expedition.
That's why I think they wouldn't have destroyed it. Once it's gone, it's no longer a potential source of revenue. The obvious use would be making more films, but for all we know it could have been sold to a private collector or something like that.

And what urgent need was there to dispose of the "evidence"? There weren't any criminal investigations of a hoax, so nobody was about to show up on Patterson's doorstep with a search warrant for an ape suit. Nobody was breathing down their necks trying to expose them.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 11:31 AM   #8176
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
@Jhunter: Maybe.

But if you rented the costume and didn't want to take any chances its owner would open his/hers mouth for not getting it back...
[hoaxer mode on]

Nope. From the hoaxer's perspective, the fewer people you involve in this, the better. If you rent the suit you're trusting that the owner won't say anything. You can't take that chance.

Quote:
Or if you were afraid about burned bits of it being found at the dumpyard, maybe you'd think better to hide it at your or someone else's basement.
Again, nope. Any risk of discovery is too much. Someone might stumble across it sometime, and then the whole thing is blown out of the water.

Quote:
Or maybe you considered the possibility of more hoaxed films or pictures in the future, after the suckers dumped some money in your pocket, paying for your next expedition.
I'll give you this one as a possibility. You're taking the risk that someone finds the suit between Squatchwalks, but if you're looking to build a reputation as the World's Authority On All Things Squatchy, it might be a risk worth taking.

Quote:
I bet there are other possibilities. Again, the hardest part of it all, IMHO, would be to make sure its indeed the costume.
I'm sure there are. It'll be interesting to see what develops from this.

[hoaxer mode off]
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Old 22nd April 2012, 07:21 PM   #8177
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Ray Wallace didn't destroy his stompers.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 07:41 PM   #8178
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Originally Posted by Kilaak Kommander View Post
Ray Wallace didn't destroy his stompers.
It appears he was quite proud of his "workmanship" from what I gather ? Man, those things must have taken quite an effort to craft...
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Old 22nd April 2012, 08:31 PM   #8179
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Roger or his representatives would simply have said it was a practice suit for his documentary film, or he made it to look like Patty later for a recreation, etc.

The discovery of the suit would have had no effect on the world of bigfootery.

They would have lapped up the explanation like a cat with cream.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 08:47 PM   #8180
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My point is that it is difficult to voluntarily dispose of something that you have either spent alot of time crafting or a lot of money having crafted for you ?

It would seem that Mr. Wallace's "spoof items" were of the former category ? Patty probably the latter... who knows though ? It is much like my depression era old broom handle saving friend Harold !

Plus these things would have to be one of the "most important" things that they had ever done . Coupled with their Depression" save everything background I doubt that Roger and Ray could part with their creations and very public and private claim to fame. The same could be said for the surviving PGF folk ?

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Old 22nd April 2012, 09:16 PM   #8181
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Yeah, I think Roger keeps the suit.

He's a cheapskate.

It's really no danger to him. His supporters will accept whatever he says to explain the suit if it's found.

Of course it's possible that the suit didn't actually belong to Roger. That never stopped Roger though, apparently.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 09:43 PM   #8182
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
I agree that you should not accept my claim blindly and that naturally there should be the consideration that I am lying/hoaxing the Bigfoot community. We've learned our lesson here at the JREF with a skeptic lying and pretending to be someone he was not and do things he had not with LongtabberPE.

Personally, I am starting to kick myself in the ass for ever having been stupid enough to say anything prematurely. I'm in a very tricky situation where the more attention I bring on my claim, the more risk I create of shooting myself in the foot and losing the suit. Not just me losing the suit, but the suit being gone period.

All I can say is that it is only natural to be skeptical of my claim and right now more than anything, I wish I had never made it until the time is right. I'm going to basically try and say as little as possible until the situation is more stable. There is a handful of skeptics here that have been trusted friends for years who know something about what I am dealing with. I'm not asking for any free passes from them or from people that don't know what I'm dealing with. I'm not going to come here and keep making unverifiable claims. Proving the PGF is a hoax is an extremely difficult thing and half of it is because many believers are a part of the problem with their instransigence. Right now I need to be working more on this situation and talking less, which is exactly what I am going to be doing now.
Well I'm telling you straight out that this "I've got something but I can't say what" is BS.

Dancing around and showing tantalizing tidbits is a technique you should leave with strippers and con men.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 12:33 AM   #8183
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You guys that are pointing out the incentive to keep the suit have a very good point. It occurs to me that even serial killers can't help themselves and keep "trophies" from their victims like their jewelry, ID or whatever and in the end this helps convict them. You would think the overwhelming incentive to detstroy evidence would prevail, but it simply means too much to them. They were pouring trash cans full of money on themselves in hotel rooms. Outsold Simon and Garfunkel at the peak of their career in Salt Lake City. Keeping that suit is re-living rock star status.

Shrike -

Quote:
You might be surprised though how many folks actually believe such drivel as Ostman and Ape Canyon, both of which date to the 1920s

Yeah - I would like to know how many believe. I have no idea.

One of the things I used to establish when Yeti/Bigfoot/Wildman or whatever moves from a wild campfire story or myth to some kind of "might really exist" status was the financing of bigfoot hunting expeditions by alleged professionals.

Because you are right that stories circulated, one I am aware of in the 1890's - and we have lots of Indian myths we can appropriate in proclaiming a pre-history to bigfoot too. But so what if there is a native myth. Show me hunting expeditions to kill them. They killed sixty ton whales and two thousand pound polar bears so where are the bigfoot hunts in native history? They have proven nonexistence by virtue of no hunting.

Likewise with "Old miners in the hills", bigfoot-throwing-rocks types of stories. But when you have expeditions taking in thousands of dollars, porters, permits, whole teams in the field for months at a time trekking hundreds of miles - This is a whole step above mere stories or legends. I am unaware of this kind of activity before Father Byrne.

Prior to that you had real explorers finding real mountain gorillas and all manner of other beast, but by the time you get to the 1950's, there is no 800 lb animal left to find, and especially not a hominid for crying out loud. It's like finding a colony of Neanderthal man in the Alps.

It's just crazy how well bigfoot belief is doing - higher now than half a century ago. Breakdown of civilization. Jerry Springer, rap music, bigfoot, web pages with black background and white writing. It's the end times.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 04:16 AM   #8184
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The suit was most likely disposed of. But, it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't destroyed. Patterson seems to have made plans as he went along and didn't think that far ahead. His focus was on the film and conning people out of cash with it. Once he got past the initial scrutiny, it was just moolah city from then on.

I suspect that with the film apparently sailing past without question, it's possible that he just didn't give a ****. He may have given thought to ditching the suit, early in the piece, but simply couldn't be bothered. That he didn't expect the farce to last as long as it did, even before he died. The sham would stand or fall on the film. Not the cock and bull story behind it, or a suit stashed in someone's attic. As long as the bucks were rolling in, he didn't care.

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
...It's really no danger to him. His supporters will accept whatever he says to explain the suit if it's found...
Yep. Just make up more crap. If the film was roundly razzed as a hoax and didn't sell anymore, who cares if the suit later turned up? Patterson said and did some wacky stuff that should have sunk him. But, it never did. Patterson may not have given much thought to anything beyond the next cheque, let alone posterity.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 06:51 AM   #8185
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Well I'm telling you straight out that this "I've got something but I can't say what" is BS.

Dancing around and showing tantalizing tidbits is a technique you should leave with strippers and con men.
He admitted the same so what's your point?
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Old 23rd April 2012, 07:50 AM   #8186
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Active Ostman thread on the BFF just last week. I'm shocked that anyone could swallow such nonsense, but if anything it seems to be enjoying a resurgence in credibility because it makes bigfoot sound more "human" and everybody knows that what Ketchum has proved.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 09:45 AM   #8187
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Active Ostman thread on the BFF just last week. I'm shocked that anyone could swallow such nonsense, but if anything it seems to be enjoying a resurgence in credibility because it makes bigfoot sound more "human" and everybody knows that what Ketchum has proved.

Don't be. People believe in much more sinister things that effect their lives much more profoundly than a bigfoot story.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 10:51 AM   #8188
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Kitakaze may have indeed located the suit. And mistakenly let it slip that he had. Now there is non-stop discussion about it, which may be detrimental to the acquisition and reveal of it. If this is all true, than I for one would like to honor his request that the activity and discussion of it cool down a bit in order to allow him to pull all the ends together so that it can happen. It'd be a huge shame to have it so close, and then slip away because of so much interest. I trust that there's something to it, and worry about what all the discussion might do to the chances of the reveal coming to fruition. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and let it play out on his terms, so that it might just play out at all. Otherwise, too much talk might spoil everything, and what does anyone gain from that? Perpetuation of the myth? If there's a suit, let Kit have the opportunity to work it out, quietly... :-)
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Old 23rd April 2012, 11:35 AM   #8189
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The thing that makes me think the suit isn't around anymore is that one could make a boatload of cash with it today.

You could make a book and a movie doing a reveal of the suit, and make a bundle.

Can't imagine anyone not realizing that.

Or maybe it's still in the hands of the Patterson family.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 11:53 AM   #8190
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The thing that makes me think the suit isn't around anymore is that one could make a boatload of cash with it today.

You could make a book and a movie doing a reveal of the suit, and make a bundle.

Can't imagine anyone not realizing that.

Or maybe it's still in the hands of the Patterson family.
Unless, of course, whomever has the suit doesn't know what it is. (which might explain why KK is being so cautious). he could be attempting to acquire it stealthily so as to not arouse suspicion of it's actual monetary value.


just a thought.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 01:01 PM   #8191
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The thing that makes me think the suit isn't around anymore is that one could make a boatload of cash with it today.

You could make a book and a movie doing a reveal of the suit, and make a bundle.

Can't imagine anyone not realizing that.

Or maybe it's still in the hands of the Patterson family.
The movie and the book would be skeptical, non-woo productions. I may be wrong, but my guess is that one can make much more money from promoting woo (see Monsterquest et al.) than exposing it as a fraud. I don't think History Channel, for example, would embrace such a project. There are much more shows disseminating woo than breaking it, a strong indication of where the money sources are.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 01:49 PM   #8192
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I have a pink and purple dragon living in my garage. But you cannot talk about it or discuss the relative merits of my claim that it exists! If you do, it will disappear forever in a puff of pink smoke, and you will have destroyed a fragile, magical being -- the only one like it in all existence.

Is that what you want? To kill a magic dragon? STOP TALKING ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW!!!!!11!!!

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Old 23rd April 2012, 01:51 PM   #8193
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Originally Posted by LogicFail View Post
Unless, of course, whomever whoever has the suit doesn't know what it is. (which might explain why KK is being so cautious). he could be attempting to acquire it stealthily so as to not arouse suspicion of it's actual monetary value.


just a thought.
Pardon me, but I had to FTFY. That drives me nuts.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 02:10 PM   #8194
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Sorry, I do that a lot
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Old 23rd April 2012, 03:31 PM   #8195
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
He admitted the same so what's your point?
He keeps talking about why he can't talk about his project.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 04:04 PM   #8196
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Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
I have a pink and purple dragon living in my garage. But you cannot talk about it or discuss the relative merits of my claim that it exists! If you do, it will disappear forever in a puff of pink smoke, and you will have destroyed a fragile, magical being -- the only one like it in all existence.
Apparently I have sumbled into a skeptic site. Nobody gets a free pass.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 05:36 PM   #8197
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Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
I have a pink and purple dragon living in my garage. But you cannot talk about it or discuss the relative merits of my claim that it exists! If you do, it will disappear forever in a puff of pink smoke, and you will have destroyed a fragile, magical being -- the only one like it in all existence.

Is that what you want? To kill a magic dragon? STOP TALKING ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW!!!!!11!!!

I understand how frustrating it is, Vort. I am squarely aware of the irony of the situation. I am working on now what is the best way forward with the situation. I am also seriously considering giving everything over to a newspaper to have them see it through. I need resources and abilities right now that I don't have.

I've just sent a group PM to five of us seeking advice. I will be happy to PM you the details of the situation and then CC you that PM. I very much need to be closing my mouth more publicly than opening it. You're a friend and I trust you and I'd be happy to explain in private why.

You're also more than welcome to continue giving it to me both barrels. I have become so entrenched at the BFF and in dealing with believers, that I have had little time to be back in the company of skeptics and face their questions. Also, this may sound a bit strange, but my PM box being constantly full has made itself an obstacle to participating here more. I have just cleaned out a large enough amount of space to speak privately with the regulars following the PGF and I'm more than happy out of respect and trust and friendship to include you. I'm not looking for any free passes, so as long as you keep what we discuss between us, if you still feel the same way after, don't ease up on any criticism.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 05:37 PM   #8198
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Question

Originally Posted by tsig View Post
He keeps talking about why he can't talk about his project.
I dont know the veracity of the guy but why would you keep talking about something you cant talk about ... um . if you cant talk about it?

This microtopic is so silly.. We have a guy that cant talk about something.. other posters saying dont talk about it.. yet they talk about it by saying dont talk about it ? Then we have the speculation of why they cant talk about it. Then we have guys like me speculating whether or not they saved the suit or destroyed the suit ?

I dont want to talk about it !
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Old 23rd April 2012, 05:54 PM   #8199
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The thing that makes me think the suit isn't around anymore is that one could make a boatload of cash with it today.

You could make a book and a movie doing a reveal of the suit, and make a bundle.

Can't imagine anyone not realizing that.

Or maybe it's still in the hands of the Patterson family.
Here's a hypothetical situation just for the hell of it. Let's say Matt Moneymaker find the suit. Let's say it cost major amounts of money to acquire it. He gets sugardaddy Wally Hersom to buy it, keep it in his home, STFU, and keep the whole thing quiet. Hersom neither needs money nor does he need people to know the truth. The PGF being a hoax would be a huge blow to their cause and they could justify to themselves keeping a lid on it. They may keep it for whatever purposes they have in studying it, or they could get rid of it. We can likely agree that they would not just torch the thing. Now what happens if they get wind that their secret is not a secret in that a skeptic has found out about it. Their motivation in getting rid of it has just increased exponentially. In that situation you need leverage to make sure they don't get rid of it.

I'm not saying Wally Hersom has the suit, but this is not wholely unlike the actual reality I am dealing with. Making money in showing a hoax is not in the interest of any of the PGF principals nor ever was. You can let that horse run once, and once it's run its course, you can't do it again. You keep it a secret, you don't violate any personal agreements amongst each other, you don't bring massive unwanted attention upon you and your family, and you maintain the status quo.

The principles revealing the hoax won't happen solely for the purpose of money. The PGF makes money everytime Patricia charges $10K to use it. Not just anyone can use it. You have something to do with Heironimus, you do not get to use it. You plan on subjecting it to actual skeptical scrutiny, you do not get to use it. You want to use it in your production to perpetuate the mystery of Bigfoot and fawn over Patterson's film and subject the source of the film to zero investigation, you can go right ahead and use it, as long as you cough up the ten thousand.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 23rd April 2012, 05:57 PM   #8200
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Originally Posted by AttorneyTom View Post
I dont know the veracity of the guy but why would you keep talking about something you cant talk about ... um . if you cant talk about it?

This microtopic is so silly.. We have a guy that cant talk about something.. other posters saying dont talk about it.. yet they talk about it by saying dont talk about it ? Then we have the speculation of why they cant talk about it. Then we have guys like me speculating whether or not they saved the suit or destroyed the suit ?

I dont want to talk about it !
Don't ask, don't tell.

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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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