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Old 5th December 2019, 08:39 PM   #81
Puppycow
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This is almost a month old now, but fwiw:

Evo Morales Finally Went Too Far for Bolivia

Quote:
The socialist president claimed authoritarian powers in the name of the popular will. But average citizens were fed up with arbitrary rule.

Evo Morales has been attacking Bolivia’s democracy for many years. Since coming to office in 2006, the socialist president has concentrated ever more authority in his own hands, denounced the opposition in aggressive terms, and placed loyalists in key institutions, from the country’s public broadcaster to its highest court.

Like many populists on both the left and the right, Morales claimed to wield power in the name of the people. But after weeks of mass protests in La Paz and other Bolivian cities, and the rapid crumbling of his support both within law enforcement and his own political party, it was his loss of legitimacy among the majority of his own countrymen that forced Morales to resign yesterday.

What he and some of his most credulous Western supporters described as a coup was in fact something very different: proof that Bolivians—like the citizens of many other countries around the world—resent arbitrary rule. The longer they have suffered from oppression, the more they have come to value the democratic institutions that are now threatened by populists around the globe.

As Morales started to come up against the two-term limit for presidents stipulated by the constitution he himself had championed in 2009, his enmity toward any semblance of the rule of law became more and more evident. In 2016, he held a binding referendum that would allow him to stay in office indefinitely. When a majority of Bolivians voted down the proposal, Morales resorted to his tight control of previously independent institutions to get his way. In 2017, the country’s supreme court ruled that limits on the length of his tenure in office would violate Morales’s human rights.
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Old 5th December 2019, 11:17 PM   #82
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Actually some of their stands are not that far from Infowars…..

Particularly the pro Putin crap.

Vlad has done something the Soviet Union could never had done;He has found useful idiots on both the left and the right.
That's true. Putin managed to get the right-wing idiots on board with his chauvinistic conservatism and left-wing idiots always were on Russian side. In the words of one left-wing useful idiot I had the displeasure to talk to, "Russia and China are fighting against western fascism". That's why he supports them.

I'm not sure "idiot" is strong enough a word to describe such people.

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Old 5th December 2019, 11:18 PM   #83
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
This is almost a month old now, but fwiw:

Evo Morales Finally Went Too Far for Bolivia
Yup, a decent summary of events. Morales was anything but a democrat, but he was a darling of the left and the fact he was removed from power was a brutal CIA coup by definition.

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Old 6th December 2019, 07:06 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
After reading about the background, count me in the "Plague On Both Their Houses" on this one.
Don't Like Morales scrapping a lot of election laws so he could run again, but the actions the military are just as bad if not worse.
Sometimes there is just not a "good guy" in the story.
Amused by how many people are willing to accept corrupt sheningans if commited by people on their ideological side of the fence.
I agree.
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Old 7th December 2019, 02:54 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
After reading about the background, count me in the "Plague On Both Their Houses" on this one.
Don't Like Morales scrapping a lot of election laws so he could run again, but the actions the military are just as bad if not worse.
Sometimes there is just not a "good guy" in the story.
Amused by how many people are willing to accept corrupt sheningans if commited by people on their ideological side of the fence.
It's not really a case of "both sides".

Dirty politics to eliminate term limits is not a coup. Bloomberg extended term limits to stay on as NYC mayor, but no one would consider the NYPD killing protestors in the street and installing a coup mayor as an acceptable solution.
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Old 8th December 2019, 11:18 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's not really a case of "both sides".
It's really a case when one side - Morales - carries >99% of all blame. Whether or not there was a credible alternative course of action is for you to prove.

Quote:
Dirty politics to eliminate term limits is not a coup.
By itself, no. But dirty politics was the referendum that sought to amend the Constitution to allow him three terms. The referendum failed.

What happened then was a blatant travesty: a pro-Morales court blatantly violated the constitution and exceeded their authority to allow him to run a third term, based on a principle the Constitution explicitly voided when it was written.

This goes above and beyond "dirty politics" and already shows there was no independent jurdiciary in Bolivia under Morales, thanks to Morales. That could be described as a creeping coup.

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Old 8th December 2019, 11:22 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
After reading about the background, count me in the "Plague On Both Their Houses" on this one.
Don't Like Morales scrapping a lot of election laws so he could run again, but the actions the military are just as bad if not worse.
I'm not sure I agree with the military being just as bad if not worse. Morales already usurped jurdiciary independence, it's not like there is a way to petition the government to restore constitutional authority. Obviously I'd perfer if it was done in a non-violent fashion. However given the disaster of a country in Venezuela - a mentor-country and regime for Morales - I'm not sure if there was a better way at all.

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Old 9th December 2019, 06:23 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's not really a case of "both sides".

Dirty politics to eliminate term limits is not a coup.
Well strictly true they are the actions of a dictator though not in and of themselves a coup.
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Old 18th December 2019, 04:24 AM   #89
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Glenn Greenwald interviewed Evo:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 27th February 2020, 07:50 AM   #90
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Washington Post: Bolivia dismissed its October elections as fraudulent. Our research found no reason to suspect fraud.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...mments-wrapper

No meaningful evidence to support the claim by the OAS of fraudulent voting.
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Old 1st March 2020, 04:52 PM   #91
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Based on the same MIT study:

MIT Study Finds No Evidence of Fraud in Bolivia’s October Election (The Globe Post, Feb. 27, 2020)
MIT study: Right-wing coup in Bolivia was based on false claims (Salon, Feb. 28, 2020)
MIT Researchers Cast Doubt on Bolivian Election Fraud (NYT, Feb. 28, 2020)
Es gab keine Wahlfälschung in Bolivien und die Analyse der OAS erscheint „zutiefst fehlerhaft“, heißt es im Bericht des Political Science Research Lab der USA (Granma.cu, Feb. 28, 2020)
’No evidence of fraud’ in Morales poll victory, say US researchers (Guardian, March 1, 2020)
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Old 14th May 2020, 11:22 AM   #92
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It's been six months since the coup. No elections have been held.
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Old 14th May 2020, 11:25 AM   #93
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Time to send in the mercenaries!
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Old 15th May 2020, 02:27 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's been six months since the coup. No elections have been held.
Do mention the whole story, please.

The elections were scheduled for 3rd of May, but were moved back to between June and September due to the ongoing epidemic. The decision was made back in March.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN21D39N

Would you perfer the Bolivians having to choose between health and democracy instead?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-...mic_in_Bolivia

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Old 15th May 2020, 03:36 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Washington Post: Bolivia dismissed its October elections as fraudulent. Our research found no reason to suspect fraud.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...mments-wrapper

No meaningful evidence to support the claim by the OAS of fraudulent voting.
Other than the fact one major candidate was constitutionally barred from running, the election was perfect, perfect I tell you!

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Old 17th May 2020, 08:48 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's been six months since the coup. No elections have been held.

The coup regime doesn't approve of elections:

Quote:
After weeks of uncertainty, Bolivia's opposition-controlled parliament approved a law late on Thursday calling for the presidential election to be held within 90 days.
The move was condemned by the country's interim government, which delayed the May 3 elections after putting the country under strict lockdown measures due to the coronavirus pandemic.
Bolivia's parliament passes law calling for elections in 90 days (Al Jazeera, May 1, 2020)
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Old 18th May 2020, 05:00 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
The coup regime doesn't approve of elections:
The interim regime doesn't want an election where people get to choose between their health and casting their votes.

There are zero good solutions available to the current government. Either they hold elections and the people are forced to choose between catching a potentially deadly disease, or else they don't hold elections and are criticized for leading a 'coup'. Neither solution is good or even acceptable, but that's what they have to work with.

Considering the severity of their quarantine, I do not consider delaying the election as excessive.

https://bo.usembassy.gov/covid-19-information/

It's certainly anything but ideal and I'd wish there was a better solution. However if their measures are followed at least somewhat well Bolivia will be out of quarantine by the end of the month and there will be no reason not to hold the election. If they delay then then the wording of regime can become acceptable. Until then it's not a regime, it's an interim government that took over because the old regime blatantly violated the constitution to remain in power.

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Old 22nd May 2020, 05:51 AM   #98
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"Bolivia's coup president Añez is trying to push through promotions within the military without congressional approval."

https://twitter.com/KawsachunNews/st...14894227275776

Military officers have entered the legislature and demanded that these promotions approved within one week, or the military will just announce the promotions without approval.

Anez's coup government is ensuring sympathetic officers are in high positions of the military.

Wide speculation that the military may move soon to disband the legislature, cancel elections, and formalize a dictatorship.
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Old 24th May 2020, 11:20 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
"Bolivia's coup president Añez is trying to push through promotions within the military without congressional approval."

https://twitter.com/KawsachunNews/st...14894227275776

Military officers have entered the legislature and demanded that these promotions approved within one week, or the military will just announce the promotions without approval.

Anez's coup government is ensuring sympathetic officers are in high positions of the military.

Wide speculation that the military may move soon to disband the legislature, cancel elections, and formalize a dictatorship.
The source seems about as legit as Breitbart regarding the current US government, just on the other side of ideological spectrum.

https://www.kawsachuncoca.com/index....pending-by-700

You need to about halve that if you account for inflation. There could be other problems with the spending, but if they're off by a factor of 2 right from the start then you aren't dealing with a credible source.

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Old 25th May 2020, 01:25 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
The interim regime doesn't want an election where people get to choose between their health and casting their votes.

There are zero good solutions available to the current government. Either they hold elections and the people are forced to choose between catching a potentially deadly disease, or else they don't hold elections and are criticized for leading a 'coup'. Neither solution is good or even acceptable, but that's what they have to work with.

It's the only way? Really?! You have considered every possible way of having an election without the risk of contagion? Oh, those poor regime of coup makers who selflessly risk being criticized for leading a coop!

Quote:
Considering the severity of their quarantine, I do not consider delaying the election as excessive.

No, considering who's behind the delay, you wouldn't, would your?

Quote:
https://bo.usembassy.gov/covid-19-information/

It's certainly anything but ideal and I'd wish there was a better solution. However if their measures are followed at least somewhat well Bolivia will be out of quarantine by the end of the month and there will be no reason not to hold the election. If they delay then then the wording of regime can become acceptable. Until then it's not a regime, it's an interim government that took over because the old regime blatantly violated the constitution to remain in power.

Tell us again why it is utterly impossible to make sure that a contagion-free election can't take place.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th May 2020, 01:49 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
It's the only way? Really?! You have considered every possible way of having an election without the risk of contagion?
"Every possible way"? No, of course not. Every way that is possible for Bolivia in the time alotted?
I think so, yes.

Quote:
No, considering who's behind the delay, you wouldn't, would your?
I'm pretty sure a virus is not a "who".

Quote:
Tell us again why it is utterly impossible to make sure that a contagion-free election can't take place.
The problem is that virus is not as educated as you and I. It can't read so it won't understand the "no SARS-CoV-2 entry allowed" and the "entrace of SARS-CoV-2 is strictly prohibited" signs at polling booths. Thus it could enter despite the severe wording and plentiful warnings.

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Old 4th June 2020, 06:42 AM   #102
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And that is the only way you could think of to make sure that a contagion-free election could take place? A sign above polling booths saying, "entrace of SARS-CoV-2 is strictly prohibited."

You are not even trying, are you?!
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 4th June 2020, 06:51 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
"Every possible way"? No, of course not. Every way that is possible for Bolivia in the time alotted?
I think so, yes.

Really?! "Every way that is possible"?

Quote:
Morales and other senior figures from his Movement for Socialism (Mas) resigned and fled, and Áñez – as second vice-president of the senate – assumed interim rule pledging to “rebuild democracy”.
Six months on, even critics of Morales argue that the 52-year-old has instead deepened divisions in the multi-ethnic nation of 11 million people – and is using the coronavirus pandemic to further her own political ambitions.
“The installation of the Áñez government has been marked by the blood of Bolivians,” said Valeria Silva Guzmán, a former Mas congresswoman now claiming asylum in Mexico. “Deaths, prison, repression, political persecution … it’s basically a regime of terror.”
(...)
Áñez imposed a stiff quarantine on 17 March to stop Bolivia’s underfunded hospitals being swamped – and called for “fast and prayer” to beat the coronavirus. But with lockdown measures easing dramatically from 1 June, even as cases have suddenly erupted in Añez’s home province of Beni, some question the rationale for postponing the electoral rerun until September or beyond.
Is Bolivia's 'interim' president using the pandemic to outstay her welcome? (The Guardian, June 1, 2020)
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 4th June 2020, 07:14 AM   #104
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NVM
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Old 4th June 2020, 10:52 PM   #105
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Really?! "Every way that is possible"?
Bolivia initially rescheduled elections to September. If the epidemic subsides in June, then it could probably be moved to August or so.

You need to make room for about 4 weeks of campaign you see. An election without a window for campaign ... won't be democratic. You also want to wait a little (2-4 weeks) to determine whether you eased restrictions too early. North Macedonia did and it's now under lockdown again. You do not want to postpone elections a second time, for a whole host of obvious reasons.

August is mid-winter down there and that's prime time for Covid-19 to erupt again. It would be better for Bolivia if they held the election in September and use the extra month to allow for as much absentee voting as possible. You actually need some infrastructure for that and two months to set it up is going to be tight. It's doable though, two months is enough to at least significantly expand the option.

Making sure as many people as possible can vote without risking their lives and health is more important than cutting the term of a temporary government by a single month. Whether they'll do so or not is what determines the historic judgment of the interm government.

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Old 5th June 2020, 11:35 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
August is mid-winter down there and that's prime time for Covid-19 to erupt again. It would be better for Bolivia if they held the election in September and use the extra month to allow for as much absentee voting as possible.


You seem to know an awful lot about conditions in Bolivia, don't you? August is mid-winter down there much the same way as February is mid-winter in Cuba.

Quote:
Best Time to Visit Bolivia
The high tourist season is from June to September due to the climate and the festival season, but the best time of the year for a visit is the cool, dry period from May to October.
Bolivia — Weather (iexplore.com)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 8th June 2020, 11:59 AM   #107
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A Bitter Election. Accusations of Fraud. And Now Second Thoughts.
A close look at Bolivian election data suggests an initial analysis by the O.A.S. that raised questions of vote-rigging — and helped force out a president — was flawed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/w...?smid=tw-share

Quote:
The conclusion that Mr. Morales’s share of the vote jumped inexplicably in the final ballots relied on incorrect data and inappropriate statistical techniques, the researchers found.

“We took a hard look at the O.A.S.’s statistical evidence and found problems with their methods,” said Francisco Rodríguez, an economist who teaches Latin American studies at Tulane University. “Once we correct those problems, the O.A.S.’s results go away, leaving no statistical evidence of fraud.”
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Old 8th June 2020, 10:25 PM   #108
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by dann View Post


You seem to know an awful lot about conditions in Bolivia, don't you? August is mid-winter down there much the same way as February is mid-winter in Cuba.
No, it's just that you think "winter" means "snow and ice". A common mistake.
It actually means "shorter days and colder weather". You know, the kind of weather better suited for respiratory viruses to thrive?

Cuba is sorrounded by ocean and has oceanic climate, so it would have a drastically different climate to a country removed from the ocean. Have someone point out Bolivia on a map for you and note all their magnificent coastline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific

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Old 8th June 2020, 10:27 PM   #109
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
A Bitter Election. Accusations of Fraud. And Now Second Thoughts.
A close look at Bolivian election data suggests an initial analysis by the O.A.S. that raised questions of vote-rigging — and helped force out a president — was flawed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/w...?smid=tw-share
I'll just point out Morales wasn't forced out because of accusations of fraud, but because his candidacy itself was unconstitutional.

I find it baffling how someone could defend Morales as democraticaly elected president when the constitution he wrote explicity bars him from running at all.

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Old 11th June 2020, 07:50 AM   #110
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That was not the word in November and December:

Quote:
An initial OAS report had already pointed to "clear manipulation" of the election and called for it to be annulled. In response, Mr Morales agreed to replace the electoral authorities and hold a fresh poll.
But days later, on 10 November, Mr Morales stepped down and sought asylum in Mexico following an intervention by the chief of the armed forces calling for his resignation. He denounced the move as a "coup".
Evo Morales: Overwhelming evidence of election fraud in Bolivia, monitors say (BBC News, Dec. 6, 2019)

Quote:
Bolivia has been in turmoil since last month's presidential election. Mr Morales said he won but this was disputed by opposition parties.
(...)
"We are seeking the maximum penalty for sedition and terrorism," Mr Murillo said.
Bolivia crisis: Morales accused of terrorism and sedition (BBC News, Nov. 22, 2019)
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Old 11th June 2020, 08:51 AM   #111
dann
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
No, it's just that you think "winter" means "snow and ice". A common mistake.

Yes, maybe. It's just a pity that I didn't make that mistake.

Quote:
It actually means "shorter days and colder weather". You know, the kind of weather better suited for respiratory viruses to thrive?

Yes, that would be a problem if Bolivia had the kind of winters that are suited for the coronavirus to thrive. It doesn't! It would also be weird to stop the lockdown and ease restrictions exactly at the point when the coronavirus begins to really thrive, which is what is happening now, but more about that later. The coronavirus actually thrives (not fantasy thrives like in your fairy tale) when people spend their time indoors instead of outdoors where the transmission is insignificant. However, they don't do so in Bolivia because "colder weather" isn't cold, it's cool - like in Cuba. What does make people stay indoors in Bolivia is the rainfall, which also happens to be what will make it difficult for many of them to participate in elections if they try to postpone the election till after October.
The rainfall is also the reason why "the best time of the year for a visit is the cool, dry period from May to October." It is the best time of the year for elections, too.

Bolivia climate: average weather, temperature, precipitation, best time to travel

Now the coup regime has postponed the May election with the argument that they are fighting the pandemic, but the numbers - all the numbers - are only rising, and the minister of health appointed by the coup regime has already been forced to resign after this little 'incident', which probably won't help:

Quote:
Corruption case
Bolivia's health minister Marcelo Navajas has been arrested on suspicion of corruption related to the over-priced purchase of ventilators to fight COVID-19. Bolivia bought 179 ventilators from a Spanish manufacturer for $27,683 each, costing almost $5 million. It later transpired that the manufacturer was offering ventilators for 9,500-11,000 euros each ($10,312-$11,941).
(Wikipedia)
It also doesn't help any that one of the first health care initiative of the coup regime was to fire all the Cuban medical teams.


Quote:
Cuba is sorrounded by ocean and has oceanic climate, so it would have a drastically different climate to a country removed from the ocean. Have someone point out Bolivia on a map for you and note all their magnificent coastline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific

No, it wouldn't have a "drastically different climate" than Bolivia because the countries are both approximately the same distance from the Equator. (Denmark's climate is far more "drastically different" from that of both countries.)



As I already pointed out: Right now is the good season in Bolivia - both for elections and for fighting the coronavirus, but the regime seems prefers to postpone both. This doesn't sound good at all:

Quote:
To curb contagions in the worst-affected regions of Beni and Santa Cruz, medical teams, police and soldiers have gone "house to house" to find infected people, with the aim of transferring them to isolation centres and hospitals.
Bolivia strains under coronavirus pandemic as cases top 10,000 - Experts worry the easing of a lockdown meant to stem the virus's spread could spark a rise in cases. (Al Jazeera, June 3, 2020)

We'll see what kind of excuse the regime comes up with to postpone the "general elections delayed by the coronavirus pandemic by September 6." My guess is that the virus will be an even better excuse in September.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 12th June 2020, 04:14 AM   #112
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Yes, maybe. It's just a pity that I didn't make that mistake.
You seem to be under the impression "it's winter down there" was somehow the key reason why election should take place in September. It is not. It is a factor, but not the major one.

The major factor is that you can, at most, hope to accelerate the election from the initial plan by one month at most, possibly as little as two weeks. You can't hold a democratic election by saying "oh yeah, there's an election next week, candidacies close at midnight by the way". There needs to be a process and that process takes two months if it's rushed.

Rather than rushing the process Bolivia should instad proceed with the initial plan to hold the election on September, while using the time to make sure as many people can vote as possible - and without risking their health to do so. That's way more democratic than rushing the election to the earliest possible date, because "the epidemic is maybe over".

Quote:
We'll see what kind of excuse the regime comes up with to postpone the "general elections delayed by the coronavirus pandemic by September 6." My guess is that the virus will be an even better excuse in September.
We'll see.

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Old 12th June 2020, 12:15 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
You seem to be under the impression "it's winter down there" was somehow the key reason why election should take place in September. It is not. It is a factor, but not the major one.

Not at all. You are the one who came up with the idea that elections had to be postponed because the virus thrives in winter. I'm the one who pointed out that the Bolivian winter is not the kind of winter that coronavirus thrives in. Besides, the regime is now reopening again after the lockdown in the middle of the season that is supposed to be so beneficial to the virus, so your argument doesn't really make sense at all.

Quote:
The major factor is that you can, at most, hope to accelerate the election from the initial plan by one month at most, possibly as little as two weeks. You can't hold a democratic election by saying "oh yeah, there's an election next week, candidacies close at midnight by the way". There needs to be a process and that process takes two months if it's rushed.

Rather than rushing the process Bolivia should instad proceed with the initial plan to hold the election on September, while using the time to make sure as many people can vote as possible - and without risking their health to do so. That's way more democratic than rushing the election to the earliest possible date, because "the epidemic is maybe over".

The initial plan was not to hold it in September. That was only after the pandemic was used as an excuse to postpone it. If the election had been held at "the earliest possible date" there would have been no rush. Or better still, they shouldn't have made a coup and accepted the election that was held in October.
But now I guess that they have already created the perfect excuse for not having it in September since they seem to be doing what they can to make Covid-19 flare up instead of containing it.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 16th June 2020, 10:29 PM   #114
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Or better still, they shouldn't have made a coup and accepted the election that was held in October.
This again?

Let me quote a somewhat relevant document here, okay?

Article 168 • Head of state term limits
The period of the mandate of the President or Vice President is five years, and they may be reelected once for a continuous term.


Ninth (transitory provision)
The international treaties existing prior to the Constitution, which do not contradict it, shall be maintained in the internal legal order with the rank of law. Within the period of four years after the election of the new Executive Organ, the Executive shall renounce and, in that case, renegotiate the international treaties that may be contrary to the Constitution.


https://www.constituteproject.org/co...livia_2009.pdf

Morales was allowed to run for a third term by a 'court' of his choosing, because to deny him candidacy would violate an international treaty that predated the Bolivian constitution.

It's a little bit disingenious to claim they should have agreed to an election, when the constitution of the country Morales was supposed to uphold explicitly prohibits such an election from taking place, don't you think?

Quote:
But now I guess that they have already created the perfect excuse for not having it in September since they seem to be doing what they can to make Covid-19 flare up instead of containing it.
Maybe, we'll see. If Morales could only work with the constitution he himself wrote this would never have become an issue.

But I guess you only criticise questionable decisions of the other side and choose to ignore the flagrant violations of the constitution of your side. Because that's how fairness works, after all.

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Old 17th June 2020, 02:03 AM   #115
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You're the one who came up with the excuse for postponing the election that they needed to lock down because of the virus, and yet they are reopening and the outbreak is only getting worse.

June 5:
Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
You need to make room for about 4 weeks of campaign you see. An election without a window for campaign ... won't be democratic. You also want to wait a little (2-4 weeks) to determine whether you eased restrictions too early.

You have to come up with a few more excuses for postponing it till September.

In the meantime, the coup regime is doing fine:

Quote:
“One of the main drivers against the Morales government was this idea that it was corrupt and becoming increasingly authoritarian,” Riaza told AQ. “Anything that reminds voters of that has the potential to hurt her popularity.”
It may already have. Another IPSOS poll conducted as news of the ventilators case broke put Áñez’s approval at 46%, a stark drop from just weeks prior.
There were at least 13 corruption cases involving Áñe’z’s government in its first six months, according to La Razon. And the scandals don’t end there. Áñez had to fire her mining minister Fernando Vásquez on May 30 after he made racist comments on the radio, saying he couldn’t have ties to the largely indigenous MAS party because of his green eyes and white skin. “I don’t have the prerequisites,” he said.
“To hear something like that coming from an official, that’s serious,” Evelyn Callapino Guarachi, a political scientist at Domingo Savio Private University, told AQ. “These scandals are totally changing the dynamic ahead of the election.”
Four Urgent Questions on Bolivia’s Election (Americas Quarterly, June 4, 2020)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 17th June 2020 at 02:16 AM.
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Old 17th June 2020, 02:26 AM   #116
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
You're the one who came up with the excuse for postponing the election that they needed to lock down because of the virus, and yet they are reopening and the outbreak is only getting worse.
If the outbreak is getting worse then rushing an election is hardly the most sensible course of action.

I find it interesting you completely ignored the fact this SNAFU in Bolivia is a direct result of Morales using his own constitution as fancy toilet paper. You can't have democracy without rule of law. It's at least as integral to democracy as elections are, possibly even more so. A country that has rule of law but chooses representatives in some other way (i.e. via a lottery of some sort) will be more democratic than a country that holds elections but laws are wind (i.e. Venezuela, North Korea).

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Old 26th June 2020, 02:49 AM   #117
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The election wasn't rushed. It was (allegedly) postponed until after the lockdown had had time to quench the outbreak, and yet they reopened to let the virus infect and kill even more people, which will, of course, be a wonderful excuse to postpone the next proposed election ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 30th June 2020, 12:19 AM   #118
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
The election wasn't rushed. It was (allegedly) postponed until after the lockdown had had time to quench the outbreak, and yet they reopened to let the virus infect and kill even more people, which will, of course, be a wonderful excuse to postpone the next proposed election ...
We'll see. I find it amazing how you're still unwilling to criticise the blatant disregard for Bolivian constitution that created the crisis in the first place.

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