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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , church scandals , George Pell , roman catholic church , sex scandals

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Old 17th February 2019, 02:48 PM   #1121
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
I believe that the RCC has accepted already-married defectors from the CoE.

Ah yes, the Church of England, plummeting into oblivion at an even faster rate of decent than the RCC. Having women ordained as clergy seems to be the main problem. So the women move into the pulpits and the men head off to Rome. Bit of a win win in a way I suppose for both churches. More clergy for the Anglicans from the ranks of women, and a much needed boost of clergy for the RCC. One has to wonder at the thoughts of the celibate priests, who have come up the hard way however.
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Old 17th February 2019, 05:32 PM   #1122
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Ah yes, the Church of England, plummeting into oblivion at an even faster rate of decent than the RCC. Having women ordained as clergy seems to be the main problem. So the women move into the pulpits and the men head off to Rome. Bit of a win win in a way I suppose for both churches. More clergy for the Anglicans from the ranks of women, and a much needed boost of clergy for the RCC. One has to wonder at the thoughts of the celibate priests, who have come up the hard way however.
My bold. Because it's funny.
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Old 17th February 2019, 07:04 PM   #1123
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Well yes I can see more that can be done now that you ask. A few bleating bishops is not much of a response I think. These deluded Catholic dudes need to hear it straight from the head man.

Francis should rock up there in his popemobile and give it to them straight...... "Look you guys, I'm the head of this outfit and I'm telling you this cross hanging **** is not on." (He could bring along a bit of muscle, like a couple of those guards from the Vatican in their daggy dress.)
Hey! No disrespecting of the Swiss Guard and their distinctive uniforms! Those guys are awesome. They still train with halberds.
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Old 17th February 2019, 09:11 PM   #1124
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Hey! No disrespecting of the Swiss Guard and their distinctive uniforms! Those guys are awesome. They still train with halberds.
And assault rifles.
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Old 17th February 2019, 10:48 PM   #1125
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
And assault rifles.
And assault rifles.
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Old 18th February 2019, 12:23 AM   #1126
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Are they trained in how to deal with sexual advances from the priesthood?
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Old 18th February 2019, 12:24 AM   #1127
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I'd say they're trained to deal with advances of any kind, from anyone.
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Old 18th February 2019, 12:31 AM   #1128
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Ah yes, the Church of England, plummeting into oblivion at an even faster rate of decent than the RCC. Having women ordained as clergy seems to be the main problem. So the women move into the pulpits and the men head off to Rome. Bit of a win win in a way I suppose for both churches. More clergy for the Anglicans from the ranks of women, and a much needed boost of clergy for the RCC. One has to wonder at the thoughts of the celibate priests, who have come up the hard way however.
Until all male CofE priests accept female priests so do not defect. Then the RCC cannot find new priests. Or train them. So they lose.
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Old 18th February 2019, 05:56 AM   #1129
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/w...urch-cmxfv2qm7

From my phone, so maybe screwed. Details the industrial scale denial and distraction campaign being run from the top of the Catholic church
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Old 18th February 2019, 12:35 PM   #1130
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/w...urch-cmxfv2qm7

From my phone, so maybe screwed. Details the industrial scale denial and distraction campaign being run from the top of the Catholic church
Link works, but paywalled.
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Old 18th February 2019, 12:57 PM   #1131
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'd say they're trained to deal with advances of any kind, from anyone.
Really? Not seen any details of that.
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Old 18th February 2019, 12:58 PM   #1132
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'd say they're trained to deal with advances of any kind, from anyone.

Up close I think a halberd may be a better weapon than an assault rifle agains a groping priest.
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Old 18th February 2019, 01:09 PM   #1133
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Link works, but paywalled.

My experience too. Looks like an interesting article though, adding to the huge mountain of crap the Catholic Church has to deal with, while trying to maintain some kind of authority, as a moral compass for the World. Hard to imagine anything more pathetic.
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Old 18th February 2019, 02:17 PM   #1134
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Link works, but paywalled.
Here is another article on a similar subject that is not paywalled.

https://www.ibbclaims.co.uk/site/blo...tholic-schools

Quote:
Soper is one of five teachers from St Benedict’s who have been convicted of child abuse, and complaints have been made by other former members of staff. In addition, in 2016, the deputy headmaster, Peter Allott, was convicted of possessing nearly 400 obscene images of children[2].
I wonder what % of the population abuse children and what % of teachers at St Benedict’s abuse children. I suggest the later is far higher than the former. Then if you add in the % of people who knew about the abuse but did nothing the difference gets even higher.
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Old 18th February 2019, 04:00 PM   #1135
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Back on the subject of George Pell, (not too sure what title to hang on his name now), I can find no news about his sentencing. As reported before from an impeccable US news source:

Quote:
An Australian jury has found Cardinal George Pell, 77, guilty on five charges of “historical child sexual offenses” that go back decades, according to various media reports and confirmed by America. The 12-member jury gave their unanimous verdict in the County Court of the State of Victoria in Melbourne on Tuesday, Dec. 11.

The judge decided that the sentencing will take place in early February 2019 and released the cardinal on bail.

Well it's getting to late February now.
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Old 18th February 2019, 06:15 PM   #1136
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Really? Not seen any details of that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontifical_Swiss_Guard

They are a fully-trained military unit, drawn from people who have completed training with the Swiss army, they use SIG SG 550 assault rifles, as well as halberds.
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Old 18th February 2019, 06:26 PM   #1137
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Here is another article on a similar subject that is not paywalled.

https://www.ibbclaims.co.uk/site/blo...tholic-schools



I wonder what % of the population abuse children and what % of teachers at St Benedict’s abuse children. I suggest the later is far higher than the former. Then if you add in the % of people who knew about the abuse but did nothing the difference gets even higher.
That's actually an ambulance-chasing lawyer site, but good info anyhow.

I had figured ex-Cardinal McCarrick was probably hiding out in the Vatican, but it turns out he's in Kansas. How about some criminal charges?
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Old 19th February 2019, 01:11 AM   #1138
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontifical_Swiss_Guard



They are a fully-trained military unit, drawn from people who have completed training with the Swiss army, they use SIG SG 550 assault rifles, as well as halberds.
There is nothing in that which shows they are trained about how to deal with sexual advances from the priesthood.
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Old 19th February 2019, 01:46 AM   #1139
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"my what a big weapon, have you been trained to use it"
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Old 19th February 2019, 02:31 AM   #1140
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Back on the subject of George Pell, (not too sure what title to hang on his name now), I can find no news about his sentencing. As reported before from an impeccable US news source:




Well it's getting to late February now.
Yeah I was going to make the same observation. Looks like someone or some organisation is delaying the inevitable.
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Old 19th February 2019, 04:29 AM   #1141
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Up close I think a halberd may be a better weapon than an assault rifle agains a groping priest.
At groping range I think the bayonet is the best weapon they are likely to carry.
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Old 19th February 2019, 04:27 PM   #1142
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
There is nothing in that which shows they are trained about how to deal with sexual advances from the priesthood.
Is there any evidence that members of the Pontifical Swiss Guard are subject to nonconsensual sexual advances from the priesthood?
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Old 20th February 2019, 02:47 AM   #1143
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Is there any evidence that members of the Pontifical Swiss Guard are subject to nonconsensual sexual advances from the priesthood?
Yes. Do a Google search and you will find plenty of allegations.
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Old 20th February 2019, 01:36 PM   #1144
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yes. Do a Google search and you will find plenty of allegations.

Well there you go so there are.

Quote:
The ex-soldier claimed that he received 20 to 25 explicit sexual advances, including on one occasion from a cardinal who invited him up to his rooms in the Vatican.

Claims of a homosexual network within the Vatican, (well we have heard of this one before), are there as well.

One wonders how the Vatican can keep a lid on this stuff. I've seen scandalous illustrations in Charlie Hebdo on the subject.
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Old 20th February 2019, 04:52 PM   #1145
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A couple of Cardinals are now beating the homosexual leads to child abuse drum yet again.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-...genda/10831922

Quote:
In an open letter American Cardinal Raymond Burke and German Cardinal Walter Brandmuller argued the abuse of children in Catholic institutions was not solely caused by an abuse of power by clergy but was "part of a much greater crisis".

"The plague of the homosexual agenda has been spread within the church, promoted by organised networks and protected by a climate of complicity and a conspiracy of silence," they wrote
.


If this convoluted crap makes sense to you then you're one up on me.
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Old 20th February 2019, 05:37 PM   #1146
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yes. Do a Google search and you will find plenty of allegations.
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Well there you go so there are.

Claims of a homosexual network within the Vatican, (well we have heard of this one before), are there as well.

One wonders how the Vatican can keep a lid on this stuff. I've seen scandalous illustrations in Charlie Hebdo on the subject.
Okay, soooo, what was their response?
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Old 20th February 2019, 06:13 PM   #1147
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From the Department of You're Not Helping:

Controversial Catholic cardinals blame child abuse on the 'plague of the homosexual agenda'

Quote:
Two conservative cardinals have linked a "homosexual agenda" to crimes against children ahead of a major Vatican summit on the prevention of sexual abuse.

In an open letter American Cardinal Raymond Burke and German Cardinal Walter Brandmuller argued the abuse of children in Catholic institutions was not solely caused by an abuse of power by clergy but was "part of a much greater crisis".

"The plague of the homosexual agenda has been spread within the church, promoted by organised networks and protected by a climate of complicity and a conspiracy of silence," they wrote.

Both cardinals are outspoken critics of Pope Francis and belong to a traditionalist wing of the Church that includes many that believe homosexuality is the main cause of clerical abuse.

Archbishop of Brisbane, Mark Coleridge — one of Australia's most senior Catholics — said he disagreed "totally" with the letter and its contents.

"[The] two cardinals are renowned for this kind of critique, which I and many others simply reject out of hand," he said from the Vatican.
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Old 20th February 2019, 07:27 PM   #1148
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Okay, soooo, what was their response?
Think you have got yourself confused, it is you who has claimed they were trained in how to deal with sexual advances from the priesthood, so far you have not supported that claim.
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Old 20th February 2019, 08:16 PM   #1149
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I think they've got it bass-ackward.
One of my best friends in college had as his life goal to convert to Catholicism and become a priest. He succeeded.
Many years later, he left the priesthood and came out of the closet.
It hadn't occurred to me that he was gay, but it was like an epiphany to me. It explained a whole lot. Like his travelling around the country with teen boys. And his frequent moves to different areas of the country.

Did he become a priest because he knew he was gay and it gave him an excuse not to be interested in women? I'd say almost certainly.
Was he molesting boys? Don't know. I'd like to think he wasn't but there's a considerable possibility.
The real question is, would he have felt it necessary to go that route in today's climate rather than 50 years ago? I think not.

The "homosexual agenda" has made it possible for gay men today to be who they are, unlike my friend. That's a good thing.
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Old 20th February 2019, 09:12 PM   #1150
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Think you have got yourself confused, it is you who has claimed they were trained in how to deal with sexual advances from the priesthood, so far you have not supported that claim.
Okay, let's grant that I did. I didn't, but let's just say for the sake of argument that I did. They are a military unit. Are the US Marines trained to deal with sexual advances from the priesthood? Are the British Air Force trained to deal with sexual advances from the priesthood? Are the Australian Signals Corps trained to deal with sexual advances from the priesthood? I am not privy to the details of the training of the Swiss Army, from which the Pontifical Swiss Guard are drawn, and quite frankly I'm baffled by your persistent focus on sexual advances from the priesthood. Yes, I'm confused. I'm confused about what you're trying to achieve here.

If you want me to withdraw the claim that the Ponitifical Swiss Guard are trained to deal with sexual advances from the priesthood, I will happily do so, even though it is a claim that I did not make. All I pointed out was that they are trained to deal with anything, like any other military unit is, and as an offhand joke at that. YOU were the one who made it specific.
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Old 21st February 2019, 03:11 AM   #1151
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Okay, let's grant that I did. I didn't, but let's just say for the sake of argument that I did. They are a military unit. Are the US Marines trained to deal with sexual advances from the priesthood? Are the British Air Force trained to deal with sexual advances from the priesthood? Are the Australian Signals Corps trained to deal with sexual advances from the priesthood? I am not privy to the details of the training of the Swiss Army, from which the Pontifical Swiss Guard are drawn, and quite frankly I'm baffled by your persistent focus on sexual advances from the priesthood. Yes, I'm confused. I'm confused about what you're trying to achieve here.



If you want me to withdraw the claim that the Ponitifical Swiss Guard are trained to deal with sexual advances from the priesthood, I will happily do so, even though it is a claim that I did not make. All I pointed out was that they are trained to deal with anything, like any other military unit is, and as an offhand joke at that. YOU were the one who made it specific.
I asked you if they were trained to deal with sexual advances from the priesthood.

Your response was:

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'd say they're trained to deal with advances of any kind, from anyone.
You have not yet supported that claim.
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Old 21st February 2019, 03:49 AM   #1152
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'd say they're trained to deal with advances of any kind, from anyone.
Yes they obstacle courses where they have to dodge molesters and receive intense psychological training in how to defend themselves against becoming victims of abuse or exploitation, especially of a sexual kind because Catholic priests desire that the most.

Most are unable to cope under the pressure of this training and the traumatic experiences they are to endure.
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Old 21st February 2019, 04:48 PM   #1153
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You have not yet supported that claim.
I refer you to my previous post.
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Old 21st February 2019, 04:59 PM   #1154
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Okay, soooo, what was their response?

If you were enquiring about Charlie Hebdo's response they published a magazine showing a circle of cardinals with their red frocks hitched up and buggering each other. Tried to find it again but no luck. I guess there weren't too many belly laughs in the Vatican about it.
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Old 21st February 2019, 05:52 PM   #1155
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
[snip] showing a circle of cardinals with their red frocks hitched up and buggering each other. [snip]
That's just so wrong. Everyone knows the red cassocks are for special occasions.
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Old 21st February 2019, 10:12 PM   #1156
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Well there you go so there are.




Claims of a homosexual network within the Vatican, (well we have heard of this one before), are there as well.

One wonders how the Vatican can keep a lid on this stuff. I've seen scandalous illustrations in Charlie Hebdo on the subject.
Have any priests been admitted to Rome hospitals with mysterious halbred wounds?
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Old 21st February 2019, 10:36 PM   #1157
Thor 2
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Well Francis has shown his true colours perhaps:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-...devil/10836244

Quote:
Abuse victims have hit out at comments made by Pope Francis after he labelled the church's critics "friends of the devil".

Won't win too many brownie points with this one methinks. Well within the Vatican maybe but outside I think not.
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Old 21st February 2019, 10:47 PM   #1158
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Yeah, he's done and said some pretty good things, especially compared to his predecessor, but let's not forget that he's still the Pope, and therefore still Catholic. Some things don't change. He's also still solidly against women in the priesthood and gay marriage.
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Old 21st February 2019, 11:11 PM   #1159
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Are they trained in how to deal with sexual advances from the priesthood?
What do you think the halberds are for?

Edited to add:

Clearly I should have read the other responses before posting this, but I think it's funny.
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Last edited by novaphile; 21st February 2019 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 12:01 AM   #1160
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They also train with the rapier. Make of that whatever you will.
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