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Old 25th August 2009, 01:48 AM   #1
Matthew Cline
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Question 9/11 "disinfo"

To those Truthers here (if any) who believe that some/all of the crazy Truther proponents (no-planers, Star Wars Beam Weapon, etc) are government agents/shills who are deliberately trying to make the Truther movement seem crazy/stupid:

Why would the government need to bother? The 9/11 event is the sort of thing that would attract the attention of weirdos and nutcases all on its own. The government wouldn't need to lift a finger to surround the rational Truthers with weirdos/nutcases, because the weirdos/nutcases will do that on their own.

Or am I looking at this wrong, and there's something about 9/11 that makes it uninteresting to the weirdos/nutcases?
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Old 25th August 2009, 02:02 AM   #2
Bobert
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Some of us here drive REALLY NICE cars as a result of being shills.
You should see my bling.
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Old 25th August 2009, 02:18 AM   #3
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i think the belief is that weirdos/nutcases dont really exist, or just dont have opinions/internet access

its sortof a mental circuit breaker, if they acknowledge that people will come up with insane theories without the government paying them to do so, they cant automatically dismiss insane theories as disinfo and their proponents as paid shills
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Old 25th August 2009, 02:28 AM   #4
Matthew Cline
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Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe View Post
they cant automatically dismiss insane theories as disinfo and their proponents as paid shills
Why not just dismiss them as insane weirdos?
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Old 25th August 2009, 02:35 AM   #5
Caustic Logic
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There are a lot of nebulous supicions floating about, and people willing to connect the dots all on their own.

But there are also a disturbing number of "experts" and Alex joneses and Peter Josephses es out there offering some smart guy pre-packaged dot-connectings to help amplify the existing paranoia. People who put some alleged reputation on the line with a "trust me, your crazy theory is right cause I'm a scientist" line. Some of these people are really persistent, and professional in how much time they dedicate to their activities. They don't seem to be making any money off of it, which leads you to wonder if they just have a big inheritance, or are they getting paid for this after all?

I don't believe there is disinfo, specifically by "the government." But there could be. There is some suspiciously thick and cartoony stupid flooding the field. I kind of hope people aren't naturally THAT stupid. That's all.
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Old 25th August 2009, 02:37 AM   #6
defaultdotxbe
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
Why not just dismiss them as insane weirdos?
dont know, possibly that imagining paid shills reinforces their own beliefs that they are right and this pose a threat to the powers that be

its an odd thing with CTers, especially the 9/11 truthers, many of them will outright refuse to admit anyone could look at the evidence and come to an honest conclusion that differs from their own, so any dissenters become part of the conspiracy
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Old 25th August 2009, 02:37 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
Why not just dismiss them as insane weirdos?
Quite often because Truthers, being - shall we be generous and say - somewhat gullible, have often fallen for much of the crap coming from these people, and have cited them as brothers-in-arms and excellent sources.

To just dismiss them as weirdos would be to admit that they, themselves, were just about as valid, e.g. not at all.

Besides - rooting out a Disinfo PsyOps Cointel Professional Shill is just so much more melodramatic than admitting you've all been listening to whackjob batcrap crazy people.

I, for one, was real happy to learn that I wasn't wasting my time watching The Gong Show, but studying the activities of a government agent. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I never heard of the Unknown Comic. Never heard of him.)
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Old 25th August 2009, 02:46 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Caustic Logic View Post
I don't believe there is disinfo, specifically by "the government." But there could be. There is some suspiciously thick and cartoony stupid flooding the field. I kind of hope people aren't naturally THAT stupid. That's all.
something thats occurred to me recently, is what if they are some sort of complex triple-cross thing?

a truther puts out an obviously insane and fake theory so that other truthers can cite it as evidence that the government is trying to discredit them, which would mean they are on the right track


i do recall seeing and obviously fake video of a plane hitting the pentagon posted on youtube with a somehwhat hollow claim it proves the truthers wrong, with several truthers immediately responding that its a clear fake and proof the government is trying to hide something


but who knows, im sure there are some batcrap crazies on both sides
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Old 25th August 2009, 03:06 AM   #9
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I have seen conspiracy theorists find significance in pieces of information that non-CTers would classify as irrelevant, suspect or downright false (for example the squibs or the pattern of clouds).

I have seen those same CTers leap to very odd conclusions based on that information (i.e. that squibs = CD or that odd patterns of clouds = secret government action to control our minds). These conclusions would not be sound even if we accepted the validity of their evidence.

As a result it doesn't surprise me that they see someone making silly claims and assume disinfo.


Note, I'm not a psychologist and haven't studied the philosophy of science for a while. I could be wrong and I don't think every CT believer thinks in the way I have described. It may be as simple as people wanting to feel that their knowledge is so important that, not only has the government noticed, but that they are going to be subject to government dirty tricks.
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Old 25th August 2009, 03:19 AM   #10
T.A.M.
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
To those Truthers here (if any) who believe that some/all of the crazy Truther proponents (no-planers, Star Wars Beam Weapon, etc) are government agents/shills who are deliberately trying to make the Truther movement seem crazy/stupid:

Why would the government need to bother? The 9/11 event is the sort of thing that would attract the attention of weirdos and nutcases all on its own. The government wouldn't need to lift a finger to surround the rational Truthers with weirdos/nutcases, because the weirdos/nutcases will do that on their own.

Or am I looking at this wrong, and there's something about 9/11 that makes it uninteresting to the weirdos/nutcases?
When your entire movement is made up of Paranoid insaniacs, you look for those within that make even the average lunatic look sober.

Hence, The "in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king" philosophy works equally well as,

"In the land of the fools, the village idiot is disinfo."

TAM
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Old 25th August 2009, 04:08 AM   #11
Dave Rogers
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
Why not just dismiss them as insane weirdos?
Because that wouldn't reinforce the paranoid fantasy. Conspiracy theorists want everything to be part of the conspiracy, and so it appeals to them to include rival conspiracy theories into it. There might be a flip-side, in that claiming that some conspiracy theorists are insane might give credence to the possibility that all conspiracy theorists are insane, but I suspect the positive reason is more compelling than the negative one.

Dave
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Old 25th August 2009, 04:29 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
Why not just dismiss them as insane weirdos?
Where's the fun in that?

And besides, it's embarrassing for truthers to admit they worshipped mental cases like Jim Fetzer and Judy Wood.

Much better to include those people in the conspiracy itself.

It's a common pattern with truthers: everything that should either refute their nonsense or at least give them pause is turned into just another reason why "the conspiracy is even bigger than we thought!"
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