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Old 10th February 2018, 03:24 PM   #41
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As usual, no. But you knew that as well.
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Old 12th February 2018, 10:41 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
'k

The website linked, and the 'adorable' bit was twitchy.com, not CNN, but you know that, don't you?
The twitchy post starts, right at the top, with a tweet from CNN. If you like, you can click on it and go straight to that same tweet in CNN's own feed.

Hopefully the fact that CNN actually published this is not really controversial.
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Old 12th February 2018, 10:50 AM   #43
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I saw the link, and actually read the CNN article. My points were that the twitchy.com site was unpleasant, that they used 'adorable', just like TBD likes to do (ie. in an insulting manner), and most important, nowhere on either page does it say that they are 'threatening' to leave, that was TBD's spin.

As I said in my post, leaving voluntarily is an option to being deported. Not a 'threat'.

But we won't comment any more on 'Knuckleheads, amiright?'
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Old 12th February 2018, 10:52 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
most important, nowhere on either page does it say that they are 'threatening' to leave, that was TBD's spin.'
headline:

Well … BYE: CNN frets because Dreamers ‘threaten’ to leave the US if DACA deal isn’t reached

so.... yeah....
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Old 12th February 2018, 02:28 PM   #45
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Ok, my apologies - you didn't make up 'threatens', the twitchy website did. You just carried on espousing their bollocks. And rephrased it as 'threatening'.

The original CNN article, and the actual people reported on didn't use that term, or indeed, appear to be trying to express that intention.

Spin away....
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Old 12th February 2018, 02:33 PM   #46
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In fact, from the original, they seem resigned to the situation (note no use of threat in any form.)

Alex and Daniela Velez have come to peace with the difficult choice they will need to make if Congress doesn’t reach a deal for those covered by the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program by its March 5 deadline: They will leave the country.

Effectively leave instead of either becoming illegal or getting deported.
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Old 12th February 2018, 02:59 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
In fact, from the original, they seem resigned to the situation (note no use of threat in any form.)

Alex and Daniela Velez have come to peace with the difficult choice they will need to make if Congress doesn’t reach a deal for those covered by the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program by its March 5 deadline: They will leave the country.

Effectively leave instead of either becoming illegal or getting deported.
Can't you feel the aggressive entitlement inherent in their abject resignation?
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Old 12th February 2018, 03:16 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Ok, my apologies - you didn't make up 'threatens', the twitchy website did. You just carried on espousing their bollocks. And rephrased it as 'threatening'.

The original CNN article, and the actual people reported on didn't use that term, or indeed, appear to be trying to express that intention.

Spin away....
"Espousing their bollocks."

The only bollocks is the claim that IF they don't get what they want THEN they are going to leave. Sounds like a threat to this actual person. Sure it is a *********** stupid threat and like the mutts who threatened to leave when Trump won, no one really expects them to do it.

But I am all for them making good on their word, and wish them a hearty:

Bye, Felicia.
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Old 12th February 2018, 04:49 PM   #49
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So, what they're (the dreamers) saying is:

"If you don't let us stay we'll leave"

Do I have that right?
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Old 12th February 2018, 04:49 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Kings Full View Post
So, what they're (the dreamers) saying is:

"If you don't let us stay we'll leave"

Do I have that right?
Some of them, anyway.
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Old 12th February 2018, 04:56 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Some of them, anyway.
Huh...

They seem to be about as smart as the people who threaten to leave the country if their candidate doesn't win.
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Old 12th February 2018, 05:20 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Kings Full View Post
Huh...

They seem to be about as smart as the people who threaten to leave the country if their candidate doesn't win.
One thing is not the same as the other.

See if you can work it out...
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Old 12th February 2018, 05:28 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
One thing is not the same as the other.

See if you can work it out...
Ok. I'll try.

Angry people who support one party scream that they'll leave the country if their candidate doesn't win.

Angry illegal aliens scream they'll leave the country if we don't let them stay.


You know, you're right. They're not the same. But both are equally stupid and in the end only hurt their cause when reasonable people hear that nonsense.

How'd I do working it out?
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Old 12th February 2018, 05:38 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Kings Full View Post
How'd I do working it out?
Rather poorly, but at least you're trying.

How does a reasonable person think less of the Dreamers who say they'll follow the law and leave the country if they're not allowed to stay? That seems like a very unreasonable thing to do, and not even close to people who threaten to leave if their political choice doesn't win as far as stupidity goes.

Spin it as 'angry and screaming' all you want, it doesn't make them similar. I'd characterize the Dreamers as sad, scared, and disappointed before 'angry screaming'. Plenty of those who support them staying though are very, very angry. This doesn't make them wrong or stupid.
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Old 12th February 2018, 06:06 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I'm not sure why the dreamers want to do their dreaming in a sexist, misogynistic, homophobic country run by a racist anyways.

#adiosfelicia
Perhaps because no one "owns" this country, despite what some people believe.
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Old 12th February 2018, 06:20 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Actually my interpretation was that you had completely failed to read the article.

They are not being thrown out, they are threatening to voluntarily leave.
Evidently you failed to completely read the article, because it's fairly apparent that the (one) Dreamer making the statement is not "threatening" anything, but simply acknowledging the fact that they will have to leave one way or another, and that they would prefer to do it voluntarily rather than live in fear until the day the Gestapo arrest them for not having papers whereupon they'll have to spend an indefinite and miserable amount of time imprisoned before being deported to some place not of their choosing and almost certainly without any assets.
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Old 12th February 2018, 06:24 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Rather poorly, but at least you're trying.

How does a reasonable person think less of the Dreamers who say they'll follow the law and leave the country if they're not allowed to stay? That seems like a very unreasonable thing to do, and not even close to people who threaten to leave if their political choice doesn't win as far as stupidity goes.

Spin it as 'angry and screaming' all you want, it doesn't make them similar. I'd characterize the Dreamers as sad, scared, and disappointed before 'angry screaming'. Plenty of those who support them staying though are very, very angry. This doesn't make them wrong or stupid.
Well, there's your problem.

When someone equates "if this happens, my family will have to leave" as "threatening," you realize that logic has gone out the window, and political ideology and cognitive dissonance rule the day.
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Old 12th February 2018, 06:24 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
Perhaps because no one "owns" this country, despite what some people believe.
Probably the citizens that elect its government and enforce its borders would disagree.
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Old 12th February 2018, 06:28 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Evidently you failed to completely read the article, because it's fairly apparent that the (one) Dreamer making the statement is not "threatening" anything, but simply acknowledging the fact that they will have to leave one way or another, and that they would prefer to do it voluntarily rather than live in fear until the day the Gestapo arrest them for not having papers whereupon they'll have to spend an indefinite and miserable amount of time imprisoned before being deported to some place not of their choosing and almost certainly without any assets.
Thank you for expressing it well in more words than I was willing to use on grumpy dog and his regal mate.
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Old 12th February 2018, 06:29 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Evidently you failed to completely read the article, because it's fairly apparent that the (one) Dreamer making the statement is not "threatening" anything, but simply acknowledging the fact that they will have to leave one way or another, and that they would prefer to do it voluntarily rather than live in fear until the day the Gestapo arrest them for not having papers whereupon they'll have to spend an indefinite and miserable amount of time imprisoned before being deported to some place not of their choosing and almost certainly without any assets.
Well, also, if you leave on your own, you and your family can apply to come back as legal residents. If deported, most likely not.

A very convoluted legal knot. I knew an undocumented alien (from Mexico) who voluntarily contacted the INS, left voluntarily, and was allowed to come back 6 months later. I'm not exactly sure why these hoops were necessary; I can only assume that decades of immigration law produces such results.
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Old 12th February 2018, 06:33 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Probably the citizens that elect its government and enforce its borders would disagree.
I believe in the Constitution and law.

The original question I replied to wondered why one would choose to remain in a country that one didn't like, similar to the moronic "America: Love It or Leave It."

Some people, despite whatever current government, love their country, consider it their home, and try to change it.

I'm sure many people of any political persuasion feel this way.
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Old 12th February 2018, 06:36 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Evidently you failed to completely read the article, because it's fairly apparent that the (one) Dreamer making the statement is not "threatening" anything, but simply acknowledging the fact that they will have to leave one way or another, and that they would prefer to do it voluntarily rather than live in fear until the day the Gestapo arrest them for not having papers whereupon they'll have to spend an indefinite and miserable amount of time imprisoned before being deported to some place not of their choosing and almost certainly without any assets.
Haha oh wow.

Enforcing immigration law--something every nation does, and Canada and Mexico both stricter than the US--is now the same as being a Nazi.

Why should any citizen take your arguments seriously?
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Old 12th February 2018, 06:39 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Haha oh wow.

Enforcing immigration law--something every nation does, and Canada and Mexico both stricter than the US--is now the same as being a Nazi.

Why should any citizen take your arguments seriously?
Because they understand hyperbole and are not simply desperately trying to dismiss the argument.
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Old 12th February 2018, 06:41 PM   #64
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Except these people came in as kids. Too young to actually break any laws.

The sins of the father...
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Old 12th February 2018, 06:41 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Because they understand hyperbole and are not simply desperately trying to dismiss the argument.
The argument is that INS is equivalent to the Nazi political police. Are you *not* desperate to dismiss it?

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Old 12th February 2018, 06:52 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Actually my interpretation was that you had completely failed to read the article.

They are not being thrown out, they are threatening to voluntarily leave.

So... yeah
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Evidently you failed to completely read the article, because it's fairly apparent that the (one) Dreamer making the statement is not "threatening" anything, but simply acknowledging the fact that they will have to leave one way or another, and that they would prefer to do it voluntarily rather than live in fear until the day the Gestapo arrest them for not having papers whereupon they'll have to spend an indefinite and miserable amount of time imprisoned before being deported to some place not of their choosing and almost certainly without any assets.
Taking out all the hysterical hyperbole shows you agreed with me.

Cool Godwin tho.
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Old 12th February 2018, 07:25 PM   #67
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My suggestion for a compromise:

4 year military enlistment/commission = citizenship upon honorable discharge.

Everyone wins.
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Old 12th February 2018, 07:27 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The argument is that INS is equivalent to the Nazi political police. Are you *not* desperate to dismiss it?
It is not the argument. You pick out the 'Gestapo' reference and focus on that and not literally the main point explaining why some would chose to leave rather than wait to be deported.

You're laying with dogs and getting fleas.
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Old 12th February 2018, 07:29 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
My suggestion for a compromise:

4 year military enlistment/commission = citizenship upon honorable discharge.

Everyone wins.
Besides those who can't enlist or those who would have to leave productive jobs they already have (and their employers lose there too).
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Old 12th February 2018, 07:32 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Besides those who can't enlist or those who would have to leave productive jobs they already have (and their employers lose there too).

Im not advising as the only solution, but it's the type of thing most people could get behind.



Bad knees? Back to guatemala.
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Old 12th February 2018, 07:38 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Taking out all the hysterical hyperbole shows you agreed with me.

Cool Godwin tho.
At least you've downgraded your hyperbolic "threatening" to "voluntary."

Yes, they would rather leave voluntarily, rather than being arrested and deported. Makes perfectly logical sense.

Some people, including myself, object to the notion that children raised here, educated here, and a member of the US (IMO) should be deported to nations they barely remember.

Your contrary opinion is of course valid. But when one uses phrases like "Bye, Felicia!', it's somewhat laughable when that person also notes Godwinning.

Somewhat cringeworthy lack of self-awareness.
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Old 12th February 2018, 07:40 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
It is not the argument. You pick out the 'Gestapo' reference and focus on that and not literally the main point explaining why some would chose to leave rather than wait to be deported.

You're laying with dogs and getting fleas.
I know right? How dare he quote the post.

Quoting someone’s Post is 8 times worse than Hitler.

Good catch
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Old 12th February 2018, 07:50 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
At least you've downgraded your hyperbolic "threatening" to "voluntary."

Yes, they would rather leave voluntarily, rather than being arrested and deported. Makes perfectly logical sense.

Some people, including myself, object to the notion that children raised here, educated here, and a member of the US (IMO) should be deported to nations they barely remember.

Your contrary opinion is of course valid. But when one uses phrases like "Bye, Felicia!', it's somewhat laughable when that person also notes Godwinning.

Somewhat cringeworthy lack of self-awareness.
That sound was the point flying over head. I said that the mopes in the CNN piece were “threatening” to “voluntarily” leave.

Although I cannot hide my glee at that you compared “Bye Felicia” to the “Gestapo.”

Hey Felicia..

Bye, bye, bye
Bye, bye...
Bye, bye...
Oh, oh.
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Old 12th February 2018, 07:54 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Hitler.

Good catch

Thank you for agreeing with me. Now that you recognize the fallacious and intellectually dishonest way you've been engaging in the discussion, you can start to change it. Such growth takes character and courage. Congratulations.
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Old 12th February 2018, 08:12 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Thank you for agreeing with me. Now that you recognize the fallacious and intellectually dishonest way you've been engaging in the discussion, you can start to change it. Such growth takes character and courage. Congratulations.
That is a holocaust level missing the point.
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Old 12th February 2018, 08:31 PM   #76
Shalamar
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
That is a holocaust level missing the point.
At least now we know you are not a Christian.
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Old 12th February 2018, 08:41 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
That sound was the point flying over head. I said that the mopes in the CNN piece were “threatening” to “voluntarily” leave.

Although I cannot hide my glee at that you compared “Bye Felicia” to the “Gestapo.”

Hey Felicia..

Bye, bye, bye
Bye, bye...
Bye, bye...
Oh, oh.
I wasn't comparing the level of hyperbole- both "Gestapo" and "Bye Felicia" are hyperbolic and distracting from the topic.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy (already pointed out by others) of not only engaging in the same activity as others, but also focusing on one word, while conveniently ignoring the substance of the post.

Not that this is anything new.
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Old 12th February 2018, 08:52 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
I wasn't comparing the level of hyperbole- both "Gestapo" and "Bye Felicia" are hyperbolic and distracting from the topic.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy (already pointed out by others) of not only engaging in the same activity as others, but also focusing on one word, while conveniently ignoring the substance of the post.

Not that this is anything new.
Bye Felicia is not hyperbolic, not in the slightest. It is a “dismissive kiss off “

But yeah we’ll totally stop pointing out that the thread was godwinned
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Old 13th February 2018, 01:07 AM   #79
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I don't understand the obvious glee from the Trumpists in this thread about kicking out the Dreamers. Can it be interpreted as anything other than casual racism?

I mean, we already know they are at least ok with racism, given that they support Trump, but it's kind of harrowing to see it becoming more open like this.
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Old 13th February 2018, 04:34 AM   #80
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Can we send people with bone spurs back to Germany? and could we back date it to the Vietnam era? Just wondering...
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