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#41 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,604
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I'm smart, but I'm not that smart. Or rather, it's not a matter of any one person. If I knew of a way a single person could fix things, I'd have done it.
I don't think it's possible. Instead, I think it's a community issue. It's police, it's parents, and as an atheist, it's churches as well. Basically "all hands on deck". |
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#42 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,682
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#43 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,153
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#44 | |||
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,604
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As much as I despise many of the people he's interviewed by, Michael Wood Jr. discusses policing issues a good deal. Here's an example:
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#45 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,424
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"Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov |
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#46 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,049
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Illegal.
Quote:
That is oversimplifying this case and his story, the dude can rot for all I care, and I don't like him, but that is the attitude I see with a lot of people (which is my main point) - that it's okay to ignore immigration law and other laws that they feel are unjust. But if someone else bends the rules - send him to prison. This issue is full of hypocrisy. Trump is an idiot if - hahaha gotta laugh at that sentence start. It's a complete sentence without the "if". Anyways, he's an even bigger idiot if he pardons an 85 year old man with a maximum 6 month sentence who will likely serve none of it behind bars. Not worth the backlash. So he'll probably do it. |
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Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures. |
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#47 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,153
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According to the best information we have yes.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/u...nts-crime.html |
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#48 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,153
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Still lower crime rates than citizens. Or are you trying to argue that immigration offensese in and of themselves are the true problem in baltimore not the drugs and murder?
Quote:
Quote:
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#49 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 41,918
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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#50 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,153
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Got a source for that happening though?
Here are jobs for those out of work coal miners. http://www.independent.com/news/2017...ps-rot-fields/ |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#51 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 41,918
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__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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#52 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,153
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__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#53 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 41,918
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No you didn't. You provided data that they themselves don't have higher unemployment rates. That says nothing about how they might affect unemployment of others.
You'd have to assume that labor is completely different than any other economic good to believe that they have no effect. That's a remarkable claim which requires remarkable evidence, and you have none. |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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#54 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,637
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Finally found time to watch the video and found it interesting. Some worthwhile ideas in there. Many of them I'd heard before, but his background gives him greater credibility than some activists and academics making similar points. While I think his proposals for community oversight of police might contribute to reigning in some police harassment and use of force issues, I don't think they'd help at all in dealing with the problem of police deliberately staging work slow-downs. Might make it a lot worse since many cops would probably resent greater community control over them. Not just bad cops either.
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#55 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,604
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And that's a large part of the issue. However, many people will say "The police are there when you don't need them, and not there when you do." It's something of an oversimplification, but if you hear it from a lot of people. If the work slowdown is just drug enforcement - the guys who run up and frisk guys at random - then I'm fine. They shouldn't do that kind of thing, anyway.
The question of why there are more homicides? Well, there's theories, but not much clarity. And as Wood states, best bet is simply a far better lead removal program, anyway. Also, consider that the cops who don't want to work under the local population don't want to "serve and protect", and may simply be unsuited for policing anyway. |
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#56 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,637
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Lead poisoning reduction seems like the sort of thing that would yield a good long-term result and a good return on investment while also playing well with the public. Begs the question of why it hasn't been more of a priority for city government. Too many competing demands for funding, I'd imagine. I get the impression that city treasury isn't exactly flush with cash.
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#57 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,637
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A new record set. With murder, it's literally the worst it's ever been. Good news is that there's a lot of opportunity for improvement.
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#58 |
Cythraul Enfys
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 57,992
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There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!! |
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#59 |
Cythraul Enfys
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 57,992
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__________________
There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!! |
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#60 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 446
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Republicans... in Baltimore? You don't much about Baltimore, do you? Or the state of Maryland for that matter. The last Republican mayor of Baltimore left office in 1967 and the city government is uniformly progressive. Not to say that the Republicans wouldn't be ******* it up just as badly, but in this particular case they're innocent. |
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#61 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,604
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Policing is a major issue here, to be sure. We've seen multiple officers caught planting evidence on their own body cams, an entire department caught in a scandal, the cop that was set to testify against that department turned up dead, the FBI's about to get involved...
This is a mess beyond what any single mayor can fix, even if s/he wanted to - and I kinda doubt that the current mayor wants to. |
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#62 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,509
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#63 |
Philosopher
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#64 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#65 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Nov 2011
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#66 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,509
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#67 |
Graduate Poster
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#68 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,604
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Now you're simply acting like a clown.
The increase in violent crimes is mostly due to increased gang activity, not domestic violence. And a large part of it is due to the fact that people in Bmore do not trust the police to do their job, and so they take matters into their own hands. And the thing is, they are correct to say that Bmore's PD is run in an incompetent manner. That's been known for years, but the Freddie Gray murder, along with BPD' blocking high school students from going home on the day of Gray's funeral, and then shooting them with tear gas and rubber bullets because they wouldn't go home, made the matter perfectly clear for everyone. |
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#69 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,509
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According to the article cited in post #57, the city has 343 homicides for this year. In 1993, the city had 353 homicides. There have been changes in the population number but the total number of people killed is less now than 24 years ago.
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#70 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,637
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I don't know much about the current mayor. I do see that she pushed for some law to fight illegal gun possession and that the city council strangled it in its crib. Not sure how much she can do if the city council is going to fight her on something like that.
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#71 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,604
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They can be a problem as well. They also mucked around about the Lee-Forrest statue right up until some city residents said "Okay, if it's not gone by this date, we're doing it ourselves." That lit a fire under their arses.
But the community is all in on this issue - the problem is that the government is mucking around, the police union is of course far too protective of bad cops, and there are far too many heavily polluted areas. The community leaders simply do not have effective partners in the city government - and it's at the point where the state governor is openly discussing what he can do at that level to help. And before anyone even tries, the idea that a republican city council or governor would do better, in the Trump era, is absurd. We're relatively lucky in that our GOP governor, Larry Hogan, is a reasonable republican - he skipped last year's convention entirely, and he's openly working against Dolt45 on behalf of the state's residents. That can't be counted on, however, when it comes to new GOPers. |
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#72 |
Cythraul Enfys
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 57,992
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__________________
There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!! |
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#73 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,637
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The BPD Commissioner wrote an op-ed for the Baltimore Sun. Makes some good noises about things they've done to improve police accountability and reduce misconduct. Not much about how they plan to improve actual crimefighting strategy. Did not know about the manpower issues he'd been dealing with.
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#74 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,604
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Simple manpower is a definite issue as well. I want to emphasize that a lot of the guys investigating crimes, looking out for residents, and so on are good people, doing what they can in a bad system. They aren't some overall menace, but far too much policing these days is driven by numbers, and they *have* to look at them or lose their job. In my opinion, it's not the right approach, if only because it leads to police harassing innocent people.
I know that there are some people in Black Lives Matter that think police forces should flat-out be universally disbanded - and that's the main reason why I don't see myself as a member of BLM, I disagree with that in cases this side of, say, Ferguson's systematic abuse of residents. But I do think that in many cities, major reform is in order. |
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#75 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,604
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#76 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,604
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Yeah. It's not just b'more, it's a lot of inner-city areas around the country. And I'll say that, of course, science is never definitive, but...it's worth a shot.
I have no hope for the current administration to even pretend to try to reduce this. But Congress, and potentially the 2020 elections, are worth looking into... |
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#77 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,637
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So the Police Commissioner is out and being replaced by one of his former deputies. Best of luck to the new guy. Some info on his background here. Seems highly experienced. I wonder if his involvement in the accidental killing of a bystander early in his career will create issues.
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#78 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,604
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Yeah, he wasn't delivering results, but I think his hands were tied to some extent. Gov. Hogan has suggested sending in State Police to aid the city's efforts. Quite a few locals have voiced concerns, but I think it could turn out for the best.
Certainly, they couldn't do better than the Gun Trace Task Force, which the US Assistant AG described as a group of cops that had already gone rogue... |
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#79 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,346
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Baltimore cops on trial for massive corruption:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.54f1fc6089f8 http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...126-story.html |
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#80 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,637
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Repulsive and somewhat cinematic. Reminds me of the Rampart scandal out here in Los Angeles. Glad they're going down, but it looks like they only got caught because the feds spotted what was happening. BPD internal affairs was apparently compromised. Lots of room for improvement. I do not envy the new Police Commissioner.
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