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Old 10th February 2018, 01:39 PM   #41
dann
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
17 September 1939.
Sep. 17, 1939, was Fa collaboration rather than Anti-Fa.
Maybe the Soviet invasion of Poland in 1944 could be described as Anti-Fa ...

Another thing:
In Sandra Newmanís article Why Men Rape, I found this very interesting:

Quote:
Sexual assault by soldiers in wartime also differs dramatically from army to army, and offers an interesting test case, because the disciplinary environment in which it occurs runs the gamut from deliberate encouragement of sexual violence to harsh and summary punishment of sexual violence.

Apparently, even in the midst of war, men are capable of refraining from sexual assault if they know there will be consequences

The resulting picture is very clear. At one extreme, we have the Rape of Nanjing ahead of the Second World War, where Japanese commanders actively incited soldiers to assault civilians, and 20,000 women were raped within the first month of the occupation. Meanwhile, incidents of sexual violence are historically low among Left-wing guerrilla groups; for instance, after the 12-year civil war in El Salvador, a UN Truth Commission report in 1981 found no reported cases of rapes being committed by insurgents, although sexual violence by government forces was common in the first years of the war. This is probably due both to the freedom of such groups to enact extra-legal punishments, and to their existential need to win the hearts and minds of the population.

Wartime rape also appears to change rapidly in response to directives from above. For instance, the notoriously high rate of sexual violence by the Red Army at the end of the Second World War decreased dramatically when the Soviet leadership decided it was a political problem, and instituted rules to discourage it. In the Salvadoran civil war, rapes by government soldiers steeply decreased once the US threatened to withdraw military aid if the governmentís human-rights record didnít improve.
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Old 10th February 2018, 02:53 PM   #42
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Wow, this whole thread is one giant false-choice fallacy.

Not liking antifa doesn't mean one likes Nazis.

Not liking Nazis doesn't mean one likes antifa.

It's quite possible to dislike both for many of the same reasons.

For example, I dislike antifa because they seek to legitimize the use of violence in suppressing views they don’t like, which is fundamentally undemocratic no matter how much you dislike the views of the people whose views they want to suppress.

There have been neo-Nazis for as long as I can remember. The traditional way of dealing with them has always been to let them have their say, then laugh at them for what they say, then write articles about what sad forces draw people to extreme ideologies. This method has always worked pretty well, keeping them at the margins of society.

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Old 10th February 2018, 03:21 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
For example, I dislike antifa because they seek to legitimize the use of violence in suppressing views they donít like, which is fundamentally undemocratic no matter how much you dislike the views of the people whose views they want to suppress.
Then literally no change in history should have ever happened under your standards.

No meaningful change in history has every happened because the correct side asked the incorrect side nicely to stop.
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Old 10th February 2018, 05:00 PM   #44
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This post needs to be stickied at the top of every page of this thread:

Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Sorry - what's antifa's body count?
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Old 10th February 2018, 05:37 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Then literally no change in history should have ever happened under your standards.
Off the top of my head we've had women's suffrage, the Civil Rights amendment, end of segregation, end of prohibition against mixed race marriages, the ADA, the advancement of gay rights, and we're working on the end of prohibition of marijuana. I'm sure there are many others I've left out, but in general meaningful change can be enacted with democratic and/or diplomatic process and it's not always necessary to violate the civil rights of those who oppose progress.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No meaningful change in history has every happened because the correct side asked the incorrect side nicely to stop.
Another false choice fallacy. There is a lot of space between "asking nicely" and violating someone's civil rights. For example the #metoo movement is wrecking the careers of many powerful people who would not have changed their behavior just by being asked nicely.

Violence is only justifiable in response to violence. When Yvette Felarca physically attacks someone who is merely standing with a sign, she becomes the oppressor. Even though her goal of "standing up to fascism" may be noble, she dirties her cause by using oppressive and regressive tactics.

And to be clear, she is not "standing up to fascism" by opposing the right of free speech.
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Old 10th February 2018, 05:41 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
This post needs to be stickied at the top of every page of this thread:
Because violence is okay until someone dies?

That's regressive.
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Old 10th February 2018, 05:46 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
This post needs to be stickied at the top of every page of this thread:
Well the problem is according to some that number is in the tens of millions because Anifa is linked to broader concepts of extreme left wing policies in the same way modern Nazis are linked to historical Nazis.

Modern Nazis are to Historical Nazis to the same degree that Anifa is to... Stalin during the Holodomor or Mao during the Great Leap Forward seems to be the argument. (For the record I find this comparison insane.)

It's a childish "Well you too" argument. We accuse Nazis of being... well Nazis so we have to pretend that Anifa is a directly related to Pol Pot.

Again I think the distinction between a political ideology and a political movement has to be kept clear in this discussion.

Democracy, Communism, Socialism, Anarchism... these are all political ideologies. Opinions that exist on an intellectual level and who proponents range across the entire scale as to what means they feel are appropriate to put their preferences into practice.

Nazism is a political movement. It's defined as much, if not more, by its action than by its ideologies. This is why I bristle at apologetic nonsense that frames opposition to them as a matter of free speech. The idea that opposition to Nazis is due to political ideological differences is purely ludicrous.

To put it bluntly if Nazis are a political party, rapists are a gender.

Now where Anifa falls on this sacle... well I have my opinions (for the recording annoying and at times extreme but not even in the same space-time continuum as Nazis) but that is just so much farts in the wind in a discussion such as this.
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Old 10th February 2018, 05:50 PM   #48
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Yeah, the left wing, so violent.....

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I AGREE
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Old 10th February 2018, 05:53 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Violence is only justifiable in response to violence. .
Okay then go make this argument in a discussion where one side isn't literal Nazis.

Jesus Christ if we ever have a zombie uprising we're gonna have zombie apologist, so many people see "Tolerance" as a game were whoever is the most tolerant of the most insanity wins.
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Old 10th February 2018, 06:05 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Because violence is okay until someone dies?

That's regressive.
Listen can we drop this inane idea that all stances/opinions have to stay equally valid forever and equally weighed in perpetuity? Stances and opinions are equally valid... until they prove themselves otherwise and if "Nazi" hasn't been moved to your "proved otherwise" column by now I'm afraid to ask what has been.

It's Nazis. They had their chance. They put their ideas up for debate and lost. There was a war about it. The whole world was involved. It was kind of a big deal. I think the jury is in on "Nazis." Nazism is not an idea we have to let get reintroduced to take another look at in order to appease some sort of "I'm more tolerant than you" fetish.

It's 2018. "Nazis are bad" is not a statement that should really need defending.

This is the real world not a Poly-sci class. You can put whatever spin on trying to make "Oh you're so intolerant against the Nazis!" into a negative you want, it is not gonna fly.
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Old 10th February 2018, 06:10 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Yeah, the left wing, so violent.....

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"there are a few far-left groups that raise red flags" [timestamp 3:35]

I believe, sir, that you will find the raising of red flags to be quite common among far-left groups indeed.
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Old 10th February 2018, 07:24 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Another victory over Antifa

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ounter-protest

scary unlike the good TWP members
Should a law enforcement agency accept witness statements from neo-nazi's?
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Old 10th February 2018, 07:36 PM   #53
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I think calling everyone who opposes Neo-Nazis a member of Antifa maybe a bridge too fa ....
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Old 10th February 2018, 08:09 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Yeah, the left wing, so violent.....

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I AGREE
I agree with every word of that video.

Pointing out problematic violence on the left is not the same as saying left wing violence is worse that right-wing violence. Politically motivated violence is wrong regardless of your agreement or disagreement with the politics.

Fox news is effed up, and they do exagerate left wing violence and downplay right wing violence. But the left wing violence they do point to is real and it should not be excused by the existence of right wing violence.

Tu quoque is still a fallacy.

Iím going to leave you with another video. Vice is a great network in my opinion, and Hate Thy Neighbor is a show thatís both funny and informative.

https://flixreel.is/episode/hate-thy...n-2-episode-2/
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Old 10th February 2018, 08:29 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay then go make this argument in a discussion where one side isn't literal Nazis.
I am.

The story from the OP described an effed up teenager who killed his girlfriendís parents. He does not represent any ďsideĒ, and his actions as reprehensible as they are do not justify antifa, Yvette Felarca, or anyone else attacking demonstrators who do not agree with them.

Proponents of antifa would have you believe they are defending us from literal Nazis by showing up at right-wing gatherings and picking fights. They're not. Inviting Milo Yiannopoulos or even Richard Spencer to a speaking event doesnít make one a Nazi, nor does standing up for their rights to free speech. Frankly, trying to shut them down especially by violently attacking people promotes them, and they appreciate it.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Jesus Christ if we ever have a zombie uprising we're gonna have zombie apologist, so many people see "Tolerance" as a game were whoever is the most tolerant of the most insanity wins.
Thatís actually a theme in both the Walking Dead and Z Nation series.




Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Listen can we drop this inane idea that all stances/opinions have to stay equally valid forever and equally weighed in perpetuity?
I am not and never have said this. Nazis are bad. They always have been bad. When I see a Nazi I feel a mixture of pity and disgust, and I don't feel the need to consider their ideas.

However, I am not allowed to attack them just for being Nazis, nor should I be.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's Nazis. They had their chance. They put their ideas up for debate and lost. There was a war about it. The whole world was involved. It was kind of a big deal. I think the jury is in on "Nazis." Nazism is not an idea we have to let get reintroduced to take another look at in order to appease some sort of "I'm more tolerant than you" fetish.
I completely agree.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's 2018. "Nazis are bad" is not a statement that should really need defending.
I am not aware of anyone who defends Nazis who is not a Nazi. If we defend their right to free speech, it is in the defense of everyone's right to free speech, and we do so knowing and acknowledging their speech is repulsive.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This is the real world not a Poly-sci class. You can put whatever spin on trying to make "Oh you're so intolerant against the Nazis!" into a negative you want, it is not gonna fly.
Itís okay to be intolerant towards Nazis, just as long as you donít violate their rights doing it.
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Old 10th February 2018, 10:48 PM   #56
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If anyone is interested, here's a link to the The Sacramento Bee describing the riot and the investigation that led to the arrests of one of the nazis and one of the antifa counter protesters:

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/cri...162280078.html
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Old 11th February 2018, 12:56 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Modern Nazis are to Historical Nazis to the same degree that Anifa is to... Stalin during the Holodomor or Mao during the Great Leap Forward seems to be the argument. (For the record I find this comparison insane.)

It's a childish "Well you too" argument. We accuse Nazis of being... well Nazis so we have to pretend that Anifa is a directly related to Pol Pot.

Neo-Nazis are proud of Hitler, they read Mein Kampf, they have his portrait on the wall. (Except for the polo-shirt guys, who pretend that they don't for PR reasons.)
I have actually met Anti-Fas who admired Stalin, but they are very few and very far between. Pol Pot? Never!
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Old 11th February 2018, 02:21 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Neo-Nazis are proud of Hitler, they read Mein Kampf, they have his portrait on the wall. (Except for the polo-shirt guys, who pretend that they don't for PR reasons.)
I have actually met Anti-Fas who admired Stalin, but they are very few and very far between. Pol Pot? Never!
I've heard that Polo shirts are evidence of nazi sympathies but don't understand the how and why.
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Old 11th February 2018, 03:13 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
I've heard that Polo shirts are evidence of nazi sympathies but don't understand the how and why.
https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/...modern-classic

Quote:
The cornerstone of the look was the white polo shirt, and nothing about that uniform was accidental. Before Charlottesville, Andrew Anglin, founder of the Daily Stormer (the American neo-Nazi and white supremacist website), issued an edict: ďWe need to be extremely conscious of what we look like, and how we present ourselves.Ē
It really doesn't harm it that Trump was often wearing polo shirts - for "conventional" reasons, but he *is* an idol of the Alt-Right.

https://www.vox.com/culture/2016/10/...ht-scott-adams
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Old 11th February 2018, 03:24 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
17 September 1939.
But Stalin wasn't wearing his antifa hat at that particular time, was he? He was a participant in a non-aggression pact with the Nazis, and entered Poland to take his share of the spoils.
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Old 11th February 2018, 04:55 AM   #61
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I've already been there:
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Sep. 17, 1939, was Fa collaboration rather than Anti-Fa.
Maybe the Soviet invasion of Poland in 1944 could be described as Anti-Fa ...
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Old 11th February 2018, 06:33 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/...modern-classic



It really doesn't harm it that Trump was often wearing polo shirts - for "conventional" reasons, but he *is* an idol of the Alt-Right.

https://www.vox.com/culture/2016/10/...ht-scott-adams
By that token, (Neo)nazis and Trump's group already won. They get to dictate various things like fashion just by using something. That is atrociously idiotic.
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Old 11th February 2018, 06:59 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
This post needs to be stickied at the top of every page of this thread:
You'd think, but people are very committed to looking for excuses to blame "both sides" when it clearly isn't a "both sides" situation.


Nazis actually kill innocent people - present tense. You don't need to go back to Treblinka. The OP's incident is only one of many. This is a murderous movement, both by ideology and actions.

Antifas, as far as I'm aware, are not killing anyone.

Until that changes, any attempt at a equivalence between Nazis and antifas should be contemptuously rejected.
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Old 11th February 2018, 09:18 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I've already been there:
Yes, but as usual, completely incorrectly. In 1938 after the annexation of the Sudetenland by Nazi Germany the USSR offered Britain and France an alliance against Germany to contain the fascist threat. Britain and France refused, and still being enamoured with fascism and its potential to exterminate the anti-capitalist left in Europe, went on to sign pacts with Nazi Germany instead. After which the USSR, unable to take on Nazi Germany by itself, found itself forced to sign its own non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany.

So let's recall the sequence of events:
1. Nazi Germany invades Czechoslovakia.
2. USSR offers Britain and France an anti-fascist alliance directed against Nazi Germany.
3. Britain and France refuse and sign pacts with Nazi Germany instead. And not even reluctantly, just as enthusiastically as they had been with Nazism and its anti-communist potential ever since it took over Germany and Italy.
4. The USSR reluctantly signs its own non-aggression pact with Germany because it's unable to take on Germany by itself without Britain and France.

So who are the "Fa collaborators" in this story? Obviously it's the USSR if you believe the "Anti-Stalinist" left. It is almost a defining feature of the so-called "Anti-Stalinist" left that they will happily misrepresent or even falsify the history of the USSR to please the Western liberal bourgeoisie.
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Old 11th February 2018, 09:37 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Then literally no change in history should have ever happened under your standards.

No meaningful change in history has every happened because the correct side asked the incorrect side nicely to stop.
Geneva convention.
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Old 11th February 2018, 09:51 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Yes, but as usual, completely incorrectly. In 1938 after the annexation of the Sudetenland by Nazi Germany the USSR offered Britain and France an alliance against Germany to contain the fascist threat. Britain and France refused, and still being enamoured with fascism and its potential to exterminate the anti-capitalist left in Europe, went on to sign pacts with Nazi Germany instead. After which the USSR, unable to take on Nazi Germany by itself, found itself forced to sign its own non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany.

So let's recall the sequence of events:
1. Nazi Germany invades Czechoslovakia.
2. USSR offers Britain and France an anti-fascist alliance directed against Nazi Germany.
3. Britain and France refuse and sign pacts with Nazi Germany instead. And not even reluctantly, just as enthusiastically as they had been with Nazism and its anti-communist potential ever since it took over Germany and Italy.
4. The USSR reluctantly signs its own non-aggression pact with Germany because it's unable to take on Germany by itself without Britain and France.

So who are the "Fa collaborators" in this story? Obviously it's the USSR if you believe the "Anti-Stalinist" left. It is almost a defining feature of the so-called "Anti-Stalinist" left that they will happily misrepresent or even falsify the history of the USSR to please the Western liberal bourgeoisie.
Non-aggression pact between Hitler and Stalin, was it?

Millions of Poles and Finns bitterly laugh.
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Old 11th February 2018, 10:13 AM   #67
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Non-aggression pact between Hitler and Stalin, was it?

Millions of Poles and Finns bitterly laugh.
Pacts between Britain, France and Hitler, was it? Right after refusing an offer from the USSR to have an anti-Nazi alliance, was it? Because they were still all enthusiastic and enamoured with the anti-communist potential of fascist political systems, was it?

Millions of Jews, homosexuals, leftists, Jehova's witnesses, Roma, etc etc bitterly laugh. Or rather they don't laugh anymore, having been exterminated and all that.

Pretty sure neither Britain nor France had expected such collateral damage when supporting the extermination of the European anti-capitalist left by fascist regimes. Must have been a real PR disaster, but luckily we have liberal bourgeois history writing and their "Anti-Stalinist" lackeys who are always happy to divert our attention to the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact whilst conveniently leaving out any context of that pact and how and why it came about.
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Old 11th February 2018, 10:31 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
You'd think, but people are very committed to looking for excuses to blame "both sides" when it clearly isn't a "both sides" situation.
Is that how you see it? From my point of view it really seems to me as though some people on the left want to deflect criticism by saying that what they’re doing wrong doesn’t rise to the level of Nazism.

To me that seems like an amazingly stupid argument.

Blaming both sides? It’s not a contest where the one who commits the least amount of wrong gets off scott free. Everyone should be blamed for the wrong that they do to the degree that they do it. This is why the killers in Virginia and Charlottesville will face life in prison, and why Yvette Felarca is only facing civil fines.

Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Nazis actually kill innocent people - present tense. You don't need to go back to Treblinka. The OP's incident is only one of many. This is a murderous movement, both by ideology and actions.

Antifas, as far as I'm aware, are not killing anyone.

Until that changes, any attempt at a equivalence between Nazis and antifas should be contemptuously rejected.
Except nobody here is saying they are equivalent.

Nobody here is defending Nazis, and the only ones claiming that criticism of antifa is the same as equating them to Nazis is you and about three others in this thread. All of whom make the claim as an act of deflection for legitimate criticism.

Really, if your best defense is “we’re not as bad as the Nazis”, then you really should stop and think about it.

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Old 11th February 2018, 11:05 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Pacts between Britain, France and Hitler, was it? Right after refusing an offer from the USSR to have an anti-Nazi alliance, was it? Because they were still all enthusiastic and enamoured with the anti-communist potential of fascist political systems, was it?

Millions of Jews, homosexuals, leftists, Jehova's witnesses, Roma, etc etc bitterly laugh. Or rather they don't laugh anymore, having been exterminated and all that.

Pretty sure neither Britain nor France had expected such collateral damage when supporting the extermination of the European anti-capitalist left by fascist regimes. Must have been a real PR disaster, but luckily we have liberal bourgeois history writing and their "Anti-Stalinist" lackeys who are always happy to divert our attention to the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact whilst conveniently leaving out any context of that pact and how and why it came about.
Oh golly, nothing to say about the Poles and Finns. By the way? Hitler was a rank amateur compared to your boy Stalin when it came to genocide, in fact, Hitler could not have done it without Stalin and the USSR.

There aintít no Genocidal maniac like a communist genocidal maniac because a communist genocidalmaniac donít stop!
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Old 11th February 2018, 11:30 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh golly, nothing to say about the Poles and Finns. By the way?
Push comes to shove, getting invaded by the USSR is probably the best thing that ever happened to the Polish working class so far. More importantly, why should I care if a section of the working class gets its government replaced from a fascist military dictatorship to Soviet-style state socialism?
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Old 11th February 2018, 11:34 AM   #71
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heres a good article

Quote:
Antifa believes it is pursuing the opposite of authoritarianism. Many of its activists oppose the very notion of a centralized state. But in the name of protecting the vulnerable, antifascists have granted themselves the authority to decide which Americans may publicly assemble and which may not. That authority rests on no democratic foundation. Unlike the politicians they revile, the men and women of antifa cannot be voted out of office. Generally, they don’t even disclose their names.

Antifa’s perceived legitimacy is inversely correlated with the government’s. Which is why, in the Trump era, the movement is growing like never before. As the president derides and subverts liberal-democratic norms, progressives face a choice. They can recommit to the rules of fair play, and try to limit the president’s corrosive effect, though they will often fail. Or they can, in revulsion or fear or righteous rage, try to deny racists and Trump supporters their political rights. From Middlebury to Berkeley to Portland, the latter approach is on the rise, especially among young people.

Revulsion, fear, and rage are understandable. But one thing is clear. The people preventing Republicans from safely assembling on the streets of Portland may consider themselves fierce opponents of the authoritarianism growing on the American right. In truth, however, they are its unlikeliest allies.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...t-left/534192/


i think antifa are making the situation worse. they give the conservative media fuel to show moderate conservatives the "evil violence of the left".

it drives a wedge between both sides whereas before it was much easier for everyone including moderate conservatives to point and laugh at the nazis
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Old 11th February 2018, 11:39 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Except nobody here is saying they are equivalent.
Yeah, ok.
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Old 11th February 2018, 02:58 PM   #73
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They are equal in that nobody really wants or needs either group to exist. In fact now that the media cycle has been over for months, nobody really knows they exist at all. Bunch of dorks playing grown-up. PETA could kick their butts. (another game idea?)

Great article a few posts up ^^
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Old 11th February 2018, 03:41 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
They are equal in that nobody really wants or needs either group to exist. In fact now that the media cycle has been over for months, nobody really knows they exist at all. Bunch of dorks playing grown-up. PETA could kick their butts. (another game idea?)

Great article a few posts up ^^
I think there is a fundamental difference. Anticapitalism has a point - there is a lot of unfairness in the capitalist system, however it is probably better than most alternatives, and can be improved without breaking it. Being an angry young idiot and thinking that rioting will help is one thing.

Communism, at least as a theory, is promoting an alternative that might seem attractive, even though in practice it is unworkable and leads tyranny.

Nazism has no redeeming features - unless you are thinking about Hugo Boss's fashion sense.

Anyway back to your point about PETA:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bnp-edl-hat...badgers-473597

One of my favourite headlines ever

Quote:
Far-Right Extremists Chased Through London by Women Dressed as Badgers
Quote:
But in the event, both groups were upstaged by agitators of a different stripe. Decked out from head to toe in black and white, the group that won the day were campaigning neither for race war nor ethnic equality, but an end to the government's cull on badgers.
Quote:
Led by Queen guitarist Brian May, protesters in fancy dress demanded an end to the government's cull of badgers, brought in to stop the spread of bovine tuberculosis.

They chanted: "Smash the cull! Smash the BNP!"
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Old 11th February 2018, 03:55 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
You'd think, but people are very committed to looking for excuses to blame "both sides" when it clearly isn't a "both sides" situation.


Nazis actually kill innocent people - present tense. You don't need to go back to Treblinka. The OP's incident is only one of many. This is a murderous movement, both by ideology and actions.

Antifas, as far as I'm aware, are not killing anyone.

Until that changes, any attempt at a equivalence between Nazis and antifas should be contemptuously rejected.
I don't believe that there's any equivalence between antifa and the nazis.

I do believe that antifa is the left wing version of the idiots that showed up armed to "protect" Cliven Bundy. They put on a costume and profile and get to play act at violence.

I've had the opportunity to see them in action first hand locally.

So far, they have a pretty good record 20 antifa on 1 or 2 "nazis" and seem very pleased that they prevail over evil at such great risk to themselves.
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Old 11th February 2018, 04:17 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I think there is a fundamental difference. Anticapitalism has a point - there is a lot of unfairness in the capitalist system, however it is probably better than most alternatives, and can be improved without breaking it. Being an angry young idiot and thinking that rioting will help is one thing.

Communism, at least as a theory, is promoting an alternative that might seem attractive, even though in practice it is unworkable and leads tyranny.

Nazism has no redeeming features - unless you are thinking about Hugo Boss's fashion sense.

Anyway back to your point about PETA:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bnp-edl-hat...badgers-473597

One of my favourite headlines ever
slightly off topic i know but the badger activists are another group that dont know when to stop

the badger population atm is huge. its bounced back loads in the last couple of decades im always seeing them run over at the side of the road (morbid way of counting the population but they wouldnt be getting run over in numbers if there wasnt many of them)

i work in forestry and the number of badgers is putting stress on all the other wildlife.

when was the last time you saw a hedgehog? i used to find them all the time growing up


its just another case of ideologues. i just wish everyone would stop joining so many gangs
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Old 11th February 2018, 04:35 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by ginjawarrior View Post
slightly off topic i know but the badger activists are another group that dont know when to stop

the badger population atm is huge. its bounced back loads in the last couple of decades im always seeing them run over at the side of the road (morbid way of counting the population but they wouldnt be getting run over in numbers if there wasnt many of them)

i work in forestry and the number of badgers is putting stress on all the other wildlife.

when was the last time you saw a hedgehog? i used to find them all the time growing up


its just another case of ideologues. i just wish everyone would stop joining so many gangs
Start breeding thousands and thousands of dachshunds.
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Old 11th February 2018, 05:19 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by ginjawarrior View Post
heres a good article



https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...t-left/534192/


i think antifa are making the situation worse. they give the conservative media fuel to show moderate conservatives the "evil violence of the left".

it drives a wedge between both sides whereas before it was much easier for everyone including moderate conservatives to point and laugh at the nazis
How effective would it have been to point and laugh at the Nazis in 1939?
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Old 11th February 2018, 05:30 PM   #79
ginjawarrior
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
How effective would it have been to point and laugh at the Nazis in 1939?
antifa was about pre 1939
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion

however its not 1939 now..

the nazi and far right are still fringe.

antifa and the far left are lumping in moderate conservatives and trump supporters with the nazi and the far right.

they are playing into the fox and other conservative media hands and helping to create an us and them enviroment

its a self fulfilling prophecy kinda thing
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Old 11th February 2018, 06:03 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by ginjawarrior View Post
antifa was about pre 1939
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion

however its not 1939 now..

the nazi and far right are still fringe.
They had people inside the Whitehouse as advisors to the President! That's far from fringe.

Quote:
antifa and the far left are lumping in moderate conservatives and trump supporters with the nazi and the far right.
I disagree that Moderate Conservatives are getting lumped in. Trump supporters are yes, though in some ways they only have themselves to blame there. Trump's Administration is highly nationalistic, it's anti-immigrant, anti-minority, misogynistic, and it's racist. Supporting such an Administration means supporting those things too. You can't support Trump and then insulate yourself from the worst bits of his Administration by saying, "Well I don't like what he's doing, but I support him to do it."

Quote:
they are playing into the fox and other conservative media hands and helping to create an us and them enviroment

its a self fulfilling prophecy kinda thing
It's been an "us vs them" environment since Clinton beat Bush!

Conservatives have never gotten over losing to Clinton after Reagan got all but 2 states in 1980.

All that is happening now is that the Left is returning a portion of the crap that the Right and Far right have been dealing out in the last 20 years, and they don't like it.

The Right and Far Right want to be able to spew whatever poisons they like and offend whoever they want without getting any repercussions for it.

See Free Speech isn't actually free. It comes with responsibilities, like all Rights. In this case the responsibility to accept the backlash from whatever garbage you spilled out of your mouth.
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