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Old 22nd May 2018, 04:07 PM   #1
sts60
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IQ on a resume?

I saw this tweet by Rick Wilson, making fun of some guy advocating dangling your IQ for getting a job:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheRickWi...24723701923846

I thought the pro tip was pretty dumb. Ive never seen a resume with an IQ on it. Ive never once considered putting my IQ on my resume, and its triple digits and everything. Ive reviewed resumes as part of our program management team, and if we saw that wed be... anti-impressed. And I work for a NASA contractor, so its not like were not looking for smart people.

Does anyone think this is actually a good idea?

P.S. I though the bit about the anyone demanding an arts degree is too stupid to work for to be pretty stupid in itself.

P.P.S. Maybe this guy is just trying to cut down on competition by whatever number of people take his advice.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 04:08 PM   #2
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I've seen the same on Popehat. It's being roundly and, IMO, deservedly mocked.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 04:09 PM   #3
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How many people actually know their IQ? I can only infer it from standardized tests I took a long time ago.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 04:22 PM   #4
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I've never seen people state their IQs on resumes - that's a new one!

What I have seen:
- photos of the person (yes, plural)
- multi-colour fonts in multiple fonts (for a management position in a corporate, no less)
- a whole section on their hobbies
- people tipping pretty much the entire buzzword bingo lexicon into their description of themselves: "I'm a results-driven detail-oriented team worker who catalyses colleagues and challenges paradigms etc etc..." Translation: "I'm unimaginative, have poor self-awareness, and am not very good at business writing."
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Old 22nd May 2018, 04:31 PM   #5
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Saw it on Twitter. The man in question is Stephan Molyneux.

Everyone who knows of him just laughed and said "of *course* it's him!" For those who don't...feel free to scour the internet for various articles and response videos to him (I particularly recommend Shaun's responses on Youtube) for some real howlers.

Also, people who put their IQs on their resumes got filtered out by the front-line folks before we engineers even saw them.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 04:37 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
I've never seen people state their IQs on resumes - that's a new one!

What I have seen:
- photos of the person (yes, plural)
- multi-colour fonts in multiple fonts (for a management position in a corporate, no less)
- a whole section on their hobbies
- people tipping pretty much the entire buzzword bingo lexicon into their description of themselves: "I'm a results-driven detail-oriented team worker who catalyses colleagues and challenges paradigms etc etc..." Translation: "I'm unimaginative, have poor self-awareness, and am not very good at business writing."
It can be fun to go to an interview, realize you either don't want the job or will never get it, and start answering questions honestly.

"Do you work well with a team?"
Me: "Not really"

"How do like your sandwich cut, straight or diagonally?"
I actually laughed in their faces at that (they really asked me this), then said, "I never cut my sandwiches".

The look I got was worth it.

What I wanted to add but did not:
"Your stupid pseudo-psychology questions are not impressive and I think you're both lame. And your company is dumb"

As for IQ on a resume, ya that would probably come across bad, but only because the score is somewhat meaningless. You are supposed to sell yourself so saying good things is kinda the idea, but ya. No.

I can gauge a person's intelligence within a minute of speaking with them, and I don't need a score.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 04:40 PM   #7
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Agreed with all other posters. It would be foolish to put your IQ on your resume. Instead, you hint at it strongly by talking about your education, GPA (for those recently graduated college), and things you have done that prove you are smart.

Interestingly, my department head recently required all of us to take an "aptitude test", which was basically an IQ test. It had pattern recognition, reading comprehension, mental rotations, all sorts of IQ style questions. I'm not sure anyone took it very seriously, and we are somewhat suspicious of his motives. I think asking us to do it was probably a bad move, but he's the boss, so I at least hope I did well. (I'm sure I got most of the questions right that I answered, but it said right at the beginning that there probably wasn't enough time to finish the test, and I only answered 31 out of 50. I have no idea how that compares to others.)
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Old 22nd May 2018, 04:57 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
"How do like your sandwich cut, straight or diagonally?"
I've never heard of that one either. But my instinctive response is "Diagonals are straight."
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Old 22nd May 2018, 04:59 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
How many people actually know their IQ? I can only infer it from standardized tests I took a long time ago.
I don't know mine, and I don't know why anyone would care. IQs measure quite accurately your ability to do IQ tests, but I doubt its utility for anything else.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 05:17 PM   #10
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I've hired lawyers and secretaries. If I ever saw a resume for any position with an IQ score listed on it, I'd throw it out. It would signal that the person had no real accomplishments.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 05:25 PM   #11
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The most effective resumes don't boast of characteristics, but of accomplishments. Like so:

Instead of saying "resistant to serpent poison" say "Built up a resistance to serpent poison through careful application and dedicated planning".

Instead of saying "displaces an equal volume of liquid water when submerged" say "masterminded a hostile takeover of a panda-themed pizza restaurant".

Instead of saying "I am so smart my IQ is 920" say "I explode into a frothing torrent of screaming abuse and obscenity at the slightest indication I am not getting my way".
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Old 22nd May 2018, 05:33 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
The most effective resumes don't boast of characteristics, but of accomplishments. Like so:

Instead of saying "resistant to serpent poison" say "Built up a resistance to serpent poison through careful application and dedicated planning".

Instead of saying "displaces an equal volume of liquid water when submerged" say "masterminded a hostile takeover of a panda-themed pizza restaurant".

Instead of saying "I am so smart my IQ is 920" say "I explode into a frothing torrent of screaming abuse and obscenity at the slightest indication I am not getting my way".
...by drowning the restaurant in an equal volume of water, no doubt.

TM's resume later updated: "also have practical experience in the use of Archimedian Arbitration to resolve business problems"
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Old 22nd May 2018, 05:37 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I don't know mine, and I don't know why anyone would care. IQs measure quite accurately your ability to do IQ tests, but I doubt its utility for anything else.
It correlates very well with academic achievement. But by the time you're an adult looking for a job, you can usually point to the academic achievement, so there's not a lot of value added. It would be useful for college entrance, but we've already got tests which basically do the same thing.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 05:45 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I don't know mine, and I don't know why anyone would care. IQs measure quite accurately your ability to do IQ tests, but I doubt its utility for anything else.
I thought about the concept, here's what I decided:

Raw test scores show the ability to problem solve.

Ta-Dah! Too simple for you? (Because solving problems is EXACTLY what IQ tests ask. )

Those raw scores are then converted to some standard called "IQ", basically some kind of percentile-related thing, rather than being stated as "a person with an IQ of 130 can solve 22% more problems than a person of average intellect".

But there is a certain anti-intellectualism around. Probably brought on by the intellectuals of moderate high IQ who think they ARE smarter than anybody. An advanced degree in a soft science does not mean they can relate in the physical world. And if they ask my IQ, I tell them. They usually fall silent.

If I was writing a resume, I think I would discuss "being able to think in concepts" rather than an IQ number. But know what? I've never written a resume yet, and never will. Retired for 15 years.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 05:47 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
...by drowning the restaurant in an equal volume of water, no doubt.

TM's resume later updated: "also have practical experience in the use of Archimedian Arbitration to resolve business problems"
and he didn't even admit to using Water Boarding.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 05:49 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It correlates very well with academic achievement.

.....
Then I guess I'm proof it doesn't work. My highest academic achievement was high school chemistry. Hmm,maybe that is why they don't ask for IQ scores?
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Old 22nd May 2018, 06:06 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I've never heard of that one either. But my instinctive response is "Diagonals are straight."
They may have said horizontal or vertical, I couldn't remember as I typed that. They may have said straight too, wish I'd thought of that answer Or maybe, "I fillet mine"

It was a graphics job doing greeting cards I think. Perhaps the correct answer might be, "Well I'd consider the shape of the bread and imagine the harmony I could achieve between separate pieces. I would cut it multiple times, totally asymmetrical, and I'd leave the crust as a reminder of how these items all are tied together, yet occupying their own separate spaces"

I've had my IQ tested twice. Once as a kid, the other, hell I don't remember exactly. Older I also did an online MENSA test once for fun. They all returned similar results. Leaving myself wide open here for wisecracks I know haha.

I also knew a woman who was a licensed(?) IQ Test errr Tester or Administrator. She always wanted to test me but I never did it. I was afraid it might be lower than the others

She was also a psychologist and very intelligent herself. At the same time she had some odd woo-ish related side-specialties.

I think IQ tests have some merit but it's a very very general assessment of --- stuff. I think a person with an IQ of 160 probably will usually be pretty intelligent while a person scoring 70 will usually not be. <shrug>
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Old 22nd May 2018, 06:08 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Then I guess I'm proof it doesn't work. My highest academic achievement was high school chemistry. Hmm,maybe that is why they don't ask for IQ scores?
I said very well, not perfectly.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 07:06 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It correlates very well with academic achievement. But by the time you're an adult looking for a job, you can usually point to the academic achievement, so there's not a lot of value added. It would be useful for college entrance, but we've already got tests which basically do the same thing.
Does it? Better than, say, being born moneyed?

Serious question. You might be right, but I don't know.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 07:10 PM   #20
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As far as I'm concerned, anyone with an IQ under 100 is a talking animal. And most likely a Democrat. The cognitive elite show they're smart by supporting Donald J. Trump and a white ethnostate.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 07:18 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I've hired lawyers and secretaries. If I ever saw a resume for any position with an IQ score listed on it, I'd throw it out. It would signal that the person had no real accomplishments.
What about being voted Time Magazine's Person of the Year 2006?
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Old 22nd May 2018, 07:33 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Ive never seen a resume with an IQ on it.
I've owned and run a recruitment company for over 25 years, and have probably seen 10,000+ cvs at all levels.

I've seen a rare one mention membership of MENSA, a lot stating their religion, but not one with an IQ score.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 08:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
What about being voted Time Magazine's Person of the Year 2006?

Or 1982


Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I've seen a rare one mention membership of MENSA, a lot stating their religion, but not one with an IQ score.

I generally counsel people against stating their religion, but frequently say they should make their religion known if they think it will help them stand out. Thus, when my mother was honored by the local Bar Association, her CV stressed that she was the founding president of the local Women's Bar. When she was honored that same year by Jewish Family Service, her CV featured that she'd been the founding VP and second president of her synagogue.

A resume should ideally make the reader say, "I really want to meet this person."
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Old 22nd May 2018, 08:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
The most effective resumes don't boast of characteristics, but of accomplishments. Like so:

Instead of saying "resistant to serpent poison" say "Built up a resistance to serpent poison through careful application and dedicated planning".

Instead of saying "displaces an equal volume of liquid water when submerged" say "masterminded a hostile takeover of a panda-themed pizza restaurant".

Instead of saying "I am so smart my IQ is 920" say "I explode into a frothing torrent of screaming abuse and obscenity at the slightest indication I am not getting my way".
You're hired!
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Old 22nd May 2018, 08:31 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
"How do like your sandwich cut, straight or diagonally?"
"Until it is begging for the sweet, merciful kiss of death."
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Old 22nd May 2018, 09:23 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Agreed with all other posters. It would be foolish to put your IQ on your resume. Instead, you hint at it strongly by talking about your education, GPA (for those recently graduated college), and things you have done that prove you are smart.

Interestingly, my department head recently required all of us to take an "aptitude test", which was basically an IQ test. It had pattern recognition, reading comprehension, mental rotations, all sorts of IQ style questions. I'm not sure anyone took it very seriously, and we are somewhat suspicious of his motives. I think asking us to do it was probably a bad move, but he's the boss, so I at least hope I did well. (I'm sure I got most of the questions right that I answered, but it said right at the beginning that there probably wasn't enough time to finish the test, and I only answered 31 out of 50. I have no idea how that compares to others.)
Not an IQ test, but I did take a federal one back in the 70's that was basically containing a 30 problem math test as part of it. Word problems were 15 of them and the other 15 were +. -, X and /. On each of the parts of the test my score was 103 to 105 (out of 100) with a 5 point veteran preference. Most people in the room did not finish the math one on time. The almost certain reason is that I was likely the only one who did the word problems and then (in order) first subtraction, then addition, then division and last multiplication. The shortest number in any question had nine digits and the the longest had 14 or 15. Addition had roughly 5 to 10 long numbers in them. Anyone curious why my score on that section was as high as on the other 2, feel free to ask!!!!!

Last edited by fuelair; 22nd May 2018 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 09:25 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I've never heard of that one either. But my instinctive response is "Diagonals are straight."
Unfortunately you have failed, demonstrating a lack of ability to intuit communicated concepts by overcoming errors or other idiosyncrasies of language.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 09:27 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I thought about the concept, here's what I decided:

Raw test scores show the ability to problem solve.

Ta-Dah! Too simple for you? (Because solving problems is EXACTLY what IQ tests ask. )

Those raw scores are then converted to some standard called "IQ", basically some kind of percentile-related thing, rather than being stated as "a person with an IQ of 130 can solve 22% more problems than a person of average intellect".

But there is a certain anti-intellectualism around. Probably brought on by the intellectuals of moderate high IQ who think they ARE smarter than anybody. An advanced degree in a soft science does not mean they can relate in the physical world. And if they ask my IQ, I tell them. They usually fall silent.

If I was writing a resume, I think I would discuss "being able to think in concepts" rather than an IQ number. But know what? I've never written a resume yet, and never will. Retired for 15 years.
Only 5 for me!!!
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Old 22nd May 2018, 10:07 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
I saw this tweet by Rick Wilson, making fun of some guy advocating dangling your IQ for getting a job:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheRickWi...24723701923846

I thought the pro tip was pretty dumb. Ive never seen a resume with an IQ on it. Ive never once considered putting my IQ on my resume, and its triple digits and everything. Ive reviewed resumes as part of our program management team, and if we saw that wed be... anti-impressed. And I work for a NASA contractor, so its not like were not looking for smart people.

Does anyone think this is actually a good idea?
....
Without reading all the responses, the first thought I have is that anybody could put down anything. It's like claiming you have a college degree without listing the college, the major and other information that could be confirmed. There is no standard IQ test or testing authority. The other thing is that you don't know what the business is looking for: whatever IQ you claim, the employer could consider it too low or too high for that particular job. Just as applicants can be rejected for being "overqualified," they can be rejected for being too smart (they won't fit in, they'll quit soon, etc.).

If you insist on claiming "I'm smart!" on your resume, you might join Mensa and list it. But even that would be seen as pretty ridiculous by most people, especially in industries where there are a lot of smart people.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 10:41 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I don't know mine, and I don't know why anyone would care. IQs measure quite accurately your ability to do IQ tests, but I doubt its utility for anything else.
With some relevance to the thread:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intell...ob_performance
Quote:
Job performance
According to Schmidt and Hunter, "for hiring employees without previous experience in the job the most valid predictor of future performance is general mental ability."[107] The validity of IQ as a predictor of job performance is above zero for all work studied to date, but varies with the type of job and across different studies, ranging from 0.2 to 0.6.[108] The correlations were higher when the unreliability of measurement methods was controlled for.[9] While IQ is more strongly correlated with reasoning and less so with motor function,[109] IQ-test scores predict performance ratings in all occupations.[107] That said, for highly qualified activities (research, management) low IQ scores are more likely to be a barrier to adequate performance, whereas for minimally-skilled activities, athletic strength (manual strength, speed, stamina, and coordination) are more likely to influence performance.[107] The prevailing view among academics is that it is largely through the quicker acquisition of job-relevant knowledge that higher IQ mediates job performance. This view has been challenged by Byington & Felps (2010), who argued that "the current applications of IQ-reflective tests allow individuals with high IQ scores to receive greater access to developmental resources, enabling them to acquire additional capabilities over time, and ultimately perform their jobs better."[110]

In establishing a causal direction to the link between IQ and work performance, longitudinal studies by Watkins and others suggest that IQ exerts a causal influence on future academic achievement, whereas academic achievement does not substantially influence future IQ scores.[111] Treena Eileen Rohde and Lee Anne Thompson write that general cognitive ability, but not specific ability scores, predict academic achievement, with the exception that processing speed and spatial ability predict performance on the SAT math beyond the effect of general cognitive ability.[112]

The US military has minimum enlistment standards at about the IQ 85 level. There have been two experiments with lowering this to 80 but in both cases these men could not master soldiering well enough to justify their costs.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 10:52 PM   #31
dann
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Instead of saying "resistant to serpent poison" say "Built up a resistance to serpent poison through careful application and dedicated planning".

Wouldn't it be shorter and to the point to simply write, 'Practicing Pentecostalist'?


A friend of mine in the SAS (the airline, not the corps) told me that applicants with IQ scores above a certain number were considered unstable members of staff and therefore not hired, but that was 30 years ago.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 11:07 PM   #32
Lothian
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There is a perception that IQ is inversely proportional to social skills. Discussing your IQ, certainly listing it on a CV simply confirms that.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 11:21 PM   #33
bluesjnr
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
...snip... that applicants with IQ scores above a certain number were considered unstable members of staff and therefore not hired, but that was 30 years ago.
Although a worthless anecdote, that is my observation in life.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 11:26 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The other thing is that you don't know what the business is looking for: whatever IQ you claim, the employer could consider it too low or too high for that particular job. Just as applicants can be rejected for being "overqualified," they can be rejected for being too smart (they won't fit in, they'll quit soon, etc.).
Indeed; in fact federal courts have already verified the right of employers, including government agencies, to disqualify candidates on the basis of a "too high" IQ.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 11:57 PM   #35
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If you are going to give your IQ then say that it is 100.

Nobody likes to employ somebody who is smarter than they are.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 12:16 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
I saw this tweet by Rick Wilson, making fun of some guy advocating dangling your IQ for getting a job:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheRickWi...24723701923846

I thought the pro tip was pretty dumb. Ive never seen a resume with an IQ on it. Ive never once considered putting my IQ on my resume, and its triple digits and everything. Ive reviewed resumes as part of our program management team, and if we saw that wed be... anti-impressed. And I work for a NASA contractor, so its not like were not looking for smart people.

Does anyone think this is actually a good idea?

P.S. I though the bit about the anyone demanding an arts degree is too stupid to work for to be pretty stupid in itself.

P.P.S. Maybe this guy is just trying to cut down on competition by whatever number of people take his advice.
IF they're interested in your IQ they'll test you for it.

There's a reason why I capitalized the conditional.

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Old 23rd May 2018, 12:28 AM   #37
MikeG
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
As far as I'm concerned, anyone with an IQ under 100 is a talking animal.........
Absolutely. You couldn't be more correct.































Of course, everyone with 100 and above is a talking animal too (always assuming, of course, that they can talk).
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Old 23rd May 2018, 12:34 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
........- a whole section on their hobbies......
You clearly think this a mistake. I, on the other hand, wouldn't consider I know enough about someone to employ them unless I knew something of their hobbies, and life away from work. Someone whose hobby was designing and constructing radio controlled submarines, for instance, might well be a more creative and problem-solving individual than someone whose hobbies were "watching TV soaps and playing computer games". If you want a dull automaton for your company, employ the latter. If you want someone who can think and do, employ the former.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 12:46 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
- a whole section on their hobbies
You clearly think this a mistake. I, on the other hand, wouldn't consider I know enough about someone to employ them unless I knew something of their hobbies, and life away from work. Someone whose hobby was designing and constructing radio controlled submarines, for instance, probably has their mind on waterproof glues and is only working for you to steal parts for their subs. Someone whose hobbies were "watching TV soaps and playing computer games" on the other hand has no life and will happily do overtime for free as a break from their humdrum lives. If you want a distracted thief for your company, employ the former. If you want someone who will devote themselves to work , employ the latter.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 01:06 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
I've never seen people state their IQs on resumes - that's a new one!

What I have seen:
- photos of the person (yes, plural)
- multi-colour fonts in multiple fonts (for a management position in a corporate, no less)
- a whole section on their hobbies
- people tipping pretty much the entire buzzword bingo lexicon into their description of themselves: "I'm a results-driven detail-oriented team worker who catalyses colleagues and challenges paradigms etc etc..." Translation: "I'm unimaginative, have poor self-awareness, and am not very good at business writing."
Why was this an issue? Excessive detail is a no-no, but "hobbies or interests" is a pretty standard thing to include on a CV in the UK.
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