ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 6th June 2018, 06:09 PM   #41
gerdbonk
Penultimate Amazing
 
gerdbonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles de Porciúncula
Posts: 13,899
Until they go to a Quiz Bowl format, this is still a beauty contest.
__________________
I'll bet you didn't notice that I was Totally ExoneratedTM when I wrote this.

Disavow any knowledge of my twitter here.
gerdbonk is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 12:56 AM   #42
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 57,655
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Too bad that women can't beautiful anymore. I didn't realize it was such a bad thing to be.
That is an appallingly ignorant thing to say.

Women can be beautiful. What's being frowned upon here is judging women on beauty, on appearance, on their sex appeal, on the assumption that they are the only attributes a woman might posses that are at all important. It's not the beauty itself that is the problem, it is subjecting that beauty to male judgement and rewarding the woman who most titillates the male gaze.

It is the canonical example of female objectification, and it disappoints me that you see only "omg women aren't allowed to be pretty". It disappoints me even more that I have to explain it. It's a sad reflection on the patriarchal society that produced beauty pageants in the first place.
__________________
"Curiosity killed time by making up for lost cats."
The Three-Word Story
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 01:08 AM   #43
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,227
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
That is an appallingly ignorant thing to say.

Women can be beautiful. What's being frowned upon here is judging women on beauty, on appearance, on their sex appeal, on the assumption that they are the only attributes a woman might posses that are at all important.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. Just because they're being judged in one area it doesn't mean that their other talents are not important, just that this isn't the arena in which they're being judged.

Do you feel the same way about, say, Olympic sprinting events? Would you go with
"What's being frowned upon here is judging women on running quickly, on the assumption that they are the only attributes a woman might posses that are at all important."


Quote:
It's not the beauty itself that is the problem, it is subjecting that beauty to male judgement and rewarding the woman who most titillates the male gaze.
Why? We reward those who run fastest, jump highest, play the best tennis, all sorts of stuff.

Are we saying that if a young lady has won the genetic lottery at running she can make money from it, despite it only being a small, physical aspect of the whole of her, but, if she wins the genetic lottery and is attractive, she can't, because it's only a small part of the whole of her?

Quote:
It is the canonical example of female objectification,
Very nearly everybody is objectified, every day. To those that pay me, I am a number on a list, with some other numbers by it, that's all. They pay me to do one thing, they don't care who I am, deep inside, they just want the number by my number to go up.

Again, why is it okay to make money from 'clever' but not from 'pretty', when both are just one tiny aspect of the whole of the person?


Quote:
and it disappoints me that you see only "omg women aren't allowed to be pretty". It disappoints me even more that I have to explain it. It's a sad reflection on the patriarchal society that produced beauty pageants in the first place.
Is it? I don't think so. I think men like to look at pretty ladies, just like they like to watch football. If someone will pay for it, then it'll end up as entertainment.

I'd be far, far more concerned about the ladies competing in these competitions getting a reasonable slice of the profits, to be honest.
__________________
Up the River!
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 01:27 AM   #44
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 57,655
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Do you feel the same way about, say, Olympic sprinting events? Would you go with
"What's being frowned upon here is judging women on running quickly, on the assumption that they are the only attributes a woman might posses that are at all important."
That's not even remotely the same thing.
__________________
"Curiosity killed time by making up for lost cats."
The Three-Word Story
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 01:35 AM   #45
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,227
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
That's not even remotely the same thing.
Could you explain to me why?

They're both physical aspects, they both disregard character, education, personality, they're both the result of a genetic lottery and both require dedication and practice to master completely.

I just don't see the difference, I'd be very interested to know what you think it might be.
__________________
Up the River!

Last edited by 3point14; 7th June 2018 at 01:36 AM.
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 01:38 AM   #46
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 57,655
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Could you explain to me why?

They're both physical aspects, they both disregard character, education, personality, they're both the result of a genetic lottery and both require dedication and practice to master completely.

I just don't see the difference, I'd be very interested to know what you think it might be.
One has to do with sex and gender, the other does not.
__________________
"Curiosity killed time by making up for lost cats."
The Three-Word Story
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 01:50 AM   #47
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,227
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
One has to do with sex and gender, the other does not.
You object solely on the grounds that it's gender specific? Or that there's a sexual undertone? Or overtone?

I don't think it's reasonable to ban one gender from their hobby or profession simply because the other gender can't do it. Indeed, in this instance, both genders can compete, just not in the same group. Just like tennis. That there's not the market for male events of this nature is of no note.

If you object to a general under or overtone of sexual titillation, then that's pretty much every aspect of life. Life is about sex, I don't really think it's too broad to say that sex the basic, fundamental driver of all human activity. An interest in sex and sexuality is normal and healthy, almost everyone has one. I don't see that it's really a problem.

As I say, I think the important question is: Are the ladies getting a fair cut?
__________________
Up the River!
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 01:51 AM   #48
McHrozni
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 10,544
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Not sure how that works.
I can imagine one really good and a few dozen not quite as great ones.

I just hope they can avoid burkas.

McHrozni
__________________
لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه
McHrozni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 03:14 AM   #49
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,578
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
You object solely on the grounds that it's gender specific? Or that there's a sexual undertone? Or overtone?

I don't think it's reasonable to ban one gender from their hobby or profession simply because the other gender can't do it. Indeed, in this instance, both genders can compete, just not in the same group. Just like tennis. That there's not the market for male events of this nature is of no note.

If you object to a general under or overtone of sexual titillation, then that's pretty much every aspect of life. Life is about sex, I don't really think it's too broad to say that sex the basic, fundamental driver of all human activity. An interest in sex and sexuality is normal and healthy, almost everyone has one. I don't see that it's really a problem.

As I say, I think the important question is: Are the ladies getting a fair cut?
This
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 08:36 AM   #50
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pacific Northwet
Posts: 10,025
I'd be a lot happier if they just went ahead and started up a Mr. America pageant, where we can judge men on their physical attractiveness and get them to parade around in next to nothing. That would work well for me... I like looking at pretty men.

ETA: Not to be confused with the Mr. Universe competition, where roid-fueled hulks show off how strong they are to other men in an attempt to demonstrate their dominance. That's just plain disturbing.
__________________
I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

Last edited by Emily's Cat; 7th June 2018 at 08:37 AM.
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 08:41 AM   #51
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,227
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I'd be a lot happier if they just went ahead and started up a Mr. America pageant, where we can judge men on their physical attractiveness and get them to parade around in next to nothing. That would work well for me... I like looking at pretty men.
How much would you be prepared to pay for the privilege? I think, but don't know if I can prove, that men are more willing to part with cash to see semi-naked people than are ladies.


Quote:
ETA: Not to be confused with the Mr. Universe competition, where roid-fueled hulks show off how strong they are to other men in an attempt to demonstrate their dominance. That's just plain disturbing.
To the best of my knowledge, at the time they're showing, they really aren't that strong at all. They're all dehydrated, starving and pumped up on chocolate, apparently.
__________________
Up the River!
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 08:44 AM   #52
sadhatter
Philosopher
 
sadhatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,974
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
That is an appallingly ignorant thing to say.

Women can be beautiful. What's being frowned upon here is judging women on beauty, on appearance, on their sex appeal, on the assumption that they are the only attributes a woman might posses that are at all important. It's not the beauty itself that is the problem, it is subjecting that beauty to male judgement and rewarding the woman who most titillates the male gaze.

It is the canonical example of female objectification, and it disappoints me that you see only "omg women aren't allowed to be pretty". It disappoints me even more that I have to explain it. It's a sad reflection on the patriarchal society that produced beauty pageants in the first place.
Or...

People like looking at attractive people, just like they like looking at people that are really good at games.

Evidence for this can be seen in both male and female body building competitions, fashion shows, strip clubs and any other attractiveness based entertainment.

You would have a point if these things didn't exist for men, but they do.
sadhatter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 08:47 AM   #53
sadhatter
Philosopher
 
sadhatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,974
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
One has to do with sex and gender, the other does not.
How is that not special pleading? And simply wrong.

If I want to play in the NFL I need to be male, I need to be physically in top shape.

To be in Mrs America you need to be female and in top shape.
sadhatter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 08:53 AM   #54
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 27,911
Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
How is that not special pleading? And simply wrong.

If I want to play in the NFL I need to be male, I need to be physically in top shape.

To be in Mrs America you need to be female and in top shape.
And in both cases, you're being paid to entertain the male gaze with your physicality.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 09:23 AM   #55
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pacific Northwet
Posts: 10,025
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Is it? I don't think so. I think men like to look at pretty ladies, just like they like to watch football. If someone will pay for it, then it'll end up as entertainment.
Pro-tip: Women like to look at pretty men too. Do you honestly think Jason Momoa is a successful actor because of his abilities? Because let me tell you, Conan was NOT a good movie, and Khal Drogo didn't have any real speaking lines.

Also... some women like to look at pretty women, and some men like to look at pretty men. Humans like to look at other attractive humans, and enjoy the attractiveness... and even *gasp* fantasize about those attractive people.
__________________
I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 09:25 AM   #56
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,227
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Pro-tip: Women like to look at pretty men too. Do you honestly think Jason Momoa is a successful actor because of his abilities? Because let me tell you, Conan was NOT a good movie, and Khal Drogo didn't have any real speaking lines.
I didn't say they didn't. I questioned the willingness of ladies to spend as much money on it as men.

Quote:
Also... some women like to look at pretty women, and some men like to look at pretty men. Humans like to look at other attractive humans, and enjoy the attractiveness... and even *gasp* fantasize about those attractive people.
Again, I have no illusions that ladies like to look at attractive gentlemen. My point is that I think ladies are less inclined to put their hand in their pocket to do so.
__________________
Up the River!
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 09:26 AM   #57
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pacific Northwet
Posts: 10,025
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
How much would you be prepared to pay for the privilege? I think, but don't know if I can prove, that men are more willing to part with cash to see semi-naked people than are ladies.
I dunno... but I was willing to pay money to buy a copy of Conan the Barbarian And I'm willing to sit through a lot of crappy plots if the main actor is handsome enough.
__________________
I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 09:27 AM   #58
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pacific Northwet
Posts: 10,025
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I didn't say they didn't. I questioned the willingness of ladies to spend as much money on it as men.
*Giggle* Maybe if women were as affluent as men, and had equitable incomes and opportunities for high-paying jobs, we'd be more willing to part with cash in order to ogle pretty men
__________________
I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 09:46 AM   #59
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,227
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I dunno... but I was willing to pay money to buy a copy of Conan the Barbarian And I'm willing to sit through a lot of crappy plots if the main actor is handsome enough.
I think that's subtly different to paying to go to an event that is only a display of semi naked people.


Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
*Giggle* Maybe if women were as affluent as men, and had equitable incomes and opportunities for high-paying jobs, we'd be more willing to part with cash in order to ogle pretty men
Er, what's with the giggle? Are you trying to imply that I'm somehow looking to talk down to you? Yeah, I'm just going to ignore that.


Okay, so , question:

Have you ever paid money to just go look at semi naked men in some sort of strip show or similar? Or will you only do so if there's a viable, alternative motive, like seeing a film.


And yes, various disposable incomes may have an influence on how this pans out, but if someone's looking to set up a business, then they really don't care about the reasons one sex might spend more on frustrating displays of nudity, they just want to know the size of their potential pool of customers.
__________________
Up the River!
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 11:40 AM   #60
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pacific Northwet
Posts: 10,025
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Er, what's with the giggle? Are you trying to imply that I'm somehow looking to talk down to you? Yeah, I'm just going to ignore that.
No, that's not at all what I was implying, I'm not a particularly subtle person! The giggle was because I was about to take it down the male privilege rabbit hole from the complete opposite angle!

Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Have you ever paid money to just go look at semi naked men in some sort of strip show or similar? Or will you only do so if there's a viable, alternative motive, like seeing a film.
No... but to be fair, I've never really been presented with the opportunity. I have, however, paid money to go look at naked women at a strip show. Not sure if that is a count for or against.

Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
And yes, various disposable incomes may have an influence on how this pans out, but if someone's looking to set up a business, then they really don't care about the reasons one sex might spend more on frustrating displays of nudity, they just want to know the size of their potential pool of customers.
Okay.
__________________
I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 11:54 AM   #61
lobosrul5
Muse
 
lobosrul5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 871
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I dunno... but I was willing to pay money to buy a copy of Conan the Barbarian And I'm willing to sit through a lot of crappy plots if the main actor is handsome enough.
So your only reason for watching an entire film was to ogle one actor? I guess men and women are different. I would never in a million years sit through a bad film just to see an actress. I've seen J Law's nude scene... but I didn't sit through Red Sparrow to see it
lobosrul5 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 12:00 PM   #62
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pacific Northwet
Posts: 10,025
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
So your only reason for watching an entire film was to ogle one actor? I guess men and women are different. I would never in a million years sit through a bad film just to see an actress. I've seen J Law's nude scene... but I didn't sit through Red Sparrow to see it
Would you have sat through it if she spent 90% of the film running around near naked?

Because Momoa spent nearly all of Conan as a ripplingly muscled beautiful specimen of masculinity covered in sweat and dirt.
__________________
I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 12:03 PM   #63
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 20,289
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
*Giggle* Maybe if women were as affluent as men, and had equitable incomes and opportunities for high-paying jobs, we'd be more willing to part with cash in order to ogle pretty men
Somehow women find the money to buy tickets to see Chippendales. I think it costs between $50-100 to get in. Then they have to start buying drinks. It is very popular.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 12:18 PM   #64
lobosrul5
Muse
 
lobosrul5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 871
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Would you have sat through it if she spent 90% of the film running around near naked?

Because Momoa spent nearly all of Conan as a ripplingly muscled beautiful specimen of masculinity covered in sweat and dirt.
Hmm, I dunno. I can't think of a film that I've sat through just to see a scantily clad actress. Although I have a feeling I did it in my much younger years when the internet was basically just for scientific stuff. We, straight men, are just super spoiled for choice these days.
lobosrul5 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 12:36 PM   #65
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 20,289
I remember Sigourney Weaver in her tiny panties underwear in Alien. I could put it on slow motion in the VHS player.

It was so sexy. But now it's like, "That was sexy? And why are they showing this woman who has no butt?"
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 12:51 PM   #66
Polaris
Penultimate Amazing
 
Polaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,222
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
You object solely on the grounds that it's gender specific? Or that there's a sexual undertone? Or overtone?

I don't think it's reasonable to ban one gender from their hobby or profession simply because the other gender can't do it. Indeed, in this instance, both genders can compete, just not in the same group. Just like tennis. That there's not the market for male events of this nature is of no note.

If you object to a general under or overtone of sexual titillation, then that's pretty much every aspect of life. Life is about sex, I don't really think it's too broad to say that sex the basic, fundamental driver of all human activity. An interest in sex and sexuality is normal and healthy, almost everyone has one. I don't see that it's really a problem.

As I say, I think the important question is: Are the ladies getting a fair cut?
Because God forbid a beautiful woman enjoys being looked at for being beautiful. For some people, sexuality is a zero sum game, and so the poor dear obviously doesn't know she's being oppressed by bad bad bad (straight) male sexuality, which is bad, in order for men (whose sexuality is, again, bad) to get their jollies.

But yes, definitely she (whoever she is) should be getting a fair cut, just like the NFL cheerleaders should be - although then let's be honest, employees are getting bent over a pinball machine and split like a piece of firewood all across the board WRT getting a fair cut.
__________________
"There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar

"Let your ears hear this beautiful song that's hiding underneath the sound," Ed Kowalczyk.
Polaris is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 01:19 PM   #67
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 27,911
Originally Posted by gerdbonk View Post
Until they go to a Quiz Bowl format, this is still a beauty contest.
And until they go to a gender-neutral format that accepts contestants across the full cis-trans spectrum, this is still not promoting "empowerment in gender equality"
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 01:48 PM   #68
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,578
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Somehow women find the money to buy tickets to see Chippendales. I think it costs between $50-100 to get in. Then they have to start buying drinks. It is very popular.
I was going to mention the Chippendales

Women do fork out for male strippers etc

Totally off topic, but one of my best mates from school joined up with them

Traveled round the world, made heaps of money, over indulged, got fat, got fired.

Thems the breaks
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 02:00 PM   #69
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 20,033
The qualifying pageants still have the swimsuit and evening dress parts, so you aren't going to make it to the big show unless you're hot.
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 05:49 PM   #70
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 57,655
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
You object solely on the grounds that it's gender specific? Or that there's a sexual undertone? Or overtone?
You would have to be profoundly ignorant of the current state of gender politics to ask that question.
__________________
"Curiosity killed time by making up for lost cats."
The Three-Word Story
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 05:51 PM   #71
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 57,655
Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
If I want to play in the NFL I need to be male, I need to be physically in top shape.

To be in Mrs America you need to be female and in top shape.
One is an athletic competition, the other is not.
__________________
"Curiosity killed time by making up for lost cats."
The Three-Word Story
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 06:26 PM   #72
Lambchops
Thinker
 
Lambchops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Norvegr
Posts: 237
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Wait. Is that sarcasm?
No. Common sense.
__________________
Fighting fascism is a social duty, not an antisocial crime.
Lambchops is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 06:31 PM   #73
sadhatter
Philosopher
 
sadhatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,974
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I didn't say they didn't. I questioned the willingness of ladies to spend as much money on it as men.



Again, I have no illusions that ladies like to look at attractive gentlemen. My point is that I think ladies are less inclined to put their hand in their pocket to do so.
Ever see the cover charge for male strippers?

It kills your point to say the least.
sadhatter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 06:35 PM   #74
sadhatter
Philosopher
 
sadhatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,974
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
One is an athletic competition, the other is not.
And?

A revolver isn't a shotgun but I can make a point about one by referencing the other.

If anything all you are now saying is the women have it easier as they don't have to perform athletic feats.
sadhatter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 06:52 PM   #75
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 39,805
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
*Giggle* Maybe if women were as affluent as men, and had equitable incomes and opportunities for high-paying jobs, we'd be more willing to part with cash in order to ogle pretty men
More willing than they are now? Perhaps, but I doubt it. First, women are not as visual as men when it comes to sex. Money and power won't change that. Second, paying to ogle pretty women is hardly confined to the upper income bracket for men.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 07:53 PM   #76
Lambchops
Thinker
 
Lambchops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Norvegr
Posts: 237
Wow...
__________________
Fighting fascism is a social duty, not an antisocial crime.
Lambchops is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 08:02 PM   #77
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 17,865
Future pageants will be judged primarily on the ability to summarize Proust.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 08:32 PM   #78
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,224
If they paraded naked, we'd see a very different set of winners. I say that as a boob man.
__________________
Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson

What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil
sackett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 08:53 PM   #79
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 45,180
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Future pageants will be judged primarily on the ability to summarize Proust.
Especially funny given Proust's own inclinations.
__________________
One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2018, 08:53 PM   #80
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 39,805
Originally Posted by sackett View Post
If they paraded naked, we'd see a very different set of winners. I say that as a boob man.
Was that intentional? Please tell me that was intentional.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:52 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.