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Old 18th June 2018, 05:40 AM   #1
Thermal
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Sherrif's Deputy charged with Super Aggravated Sexual Assault

Jose Nunez, 10 year veteran of the Bexar County Sherrif's dept, has been charged with sexual assault of a four year old girl, possibly repeatedly and possibly with other victims. Nunez is said to have threatened the chil's undocumented mother with deportation if she reported it.

My question is, and I trust there are posters with some experience in this area: how do predators like this function in day to day world? It seems that the level of depravity such a person is living under would render him unable to function normally. Wouldn't alarm bells be going off with his every word and action? Does a sociopath (or whatever designation) also possess tremendously convincing acting skills? How do they know how to behave 'normally' to go undetected if they are so profoundly warped?

http://wjactv.com/news/nation-world/...ds-sex-assault
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Old 18th June 2018, 06:01 AM   #2
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The thing is, unless he wears a t-shirt that says "I Rape Children", then he is good to go. Our society generally accommodates crazies and nutjobs unless they commit criminal acts against others who would report them.
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Old 18th June 2018, 06:13 AM   #3
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I get that, but I can't wrap my head around someone so twisted that he could rape a toddler, and still manage to do things like hold a job and fill out paperwork. It seems that the signs of that level of depravity would be everywhere.
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Old 18th June 2018, 07:00 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I get that, but I can't wrap my head around someone so twisted that he could rape a toddler, and still manage to do things like hold a job and fill out paperwork. It seems that the signs of that level of depravity would be everywhere.
People can live with two realities in their heads at the same time. The Bike Path Rapist (who also murdered several of his victims), lived a mundane life, was married and raised 2 kids. His neighbors and associates apparently never suspected.
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Old 18th June 2018, 07:36 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
My question is, and I trust there are posters with some experience in this area: how do predators like this function in day to day world? It seems that the level of depravity such a person is living under would render him unable to function normally. Wouldn't alarm bells be going off with his every word and action? Does a sociopath (or whatever designation) also possess tremendously convincing acting skills? How do they know how to behave 'normally' to go undetected if they are so profoundly warped?
I'm not sure I understand. What exactly is it that you think would give them away? Surely you're not suggesting that pedophiles have some sort of characteristic physical or verbal tick or something? Or that they have an overwhelming desire to keep inserting it into conversation, like "What did you have for lunch?" "I had a cheese sandwich, and I sure wish I could have raped a child while I was eating it!"

Pedophiles act much like anybody else does in most aspects of life, because they are much like everyone else in most aspects of life.
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Old 18th June 2018, 07:37 AM   #6
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Daily Mail says that the child is a relative of this guy and the crime was inappropriate touching of the genitals.
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Old 18th June 2018, 07:53 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I get that, but I can't wrap my head around someone so twisted that he could rape a toddler, and still manage to do things like hold a job and fill out paperwork. It seems that the signs of that level of depravity would be everywhere.
I can't help thinking of all the "normal" men (for varying values of normal) who commit atrocities in war. Once you conceive of other people as being alien to you and yours, or as undesirables it seems such atrocities come more easily to some people.
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Old 18th June 2018, 07:54 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
I'm not sure I understand. What exactly is it that you think would give them away? Surely you're not suggesting that pedophiles have some sort of characteristic physical or verbal tick or something? Or that they have an overwhelming desire to keep inserting it into conversation, like "What did you have for lunch?" "I had a cheese sandwich, and I sure wish I could have raped a child while I was eating it!"

Pedophiles act much like anybody else does in most aspects of life, because they are much like everyone else in most aspects of life.
Not quite. What I cannot grasp is how someone could partake in the extreme of demented behavior and not have it seeping out of every corner of their lives.

For instance, each and every serious criminal I have known (8-11, depending on what you call known v acquainted with), you could see it coming a mile away, because they were so screwed up they couldn't function among the normals. So how do you go from picking up the dry cleaning, raping a toddler, feeding the dog, etc? I would think that depth of depravity would make you unable to assimilate.
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Old 18th June 2018, 07:59 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
I can't help thinking of all the "normal" men (for varying values of normal) who commit atrocities in war. Once you conceive of other people as being alien to you and yours, or as undesirables it seems such atrocities come more easily to some people.
Yes, but I think there is a measure of altruism inherent in the ability to engage in warfare, and the hell that comes with it. Many don't assimilate back, from disproportionate suicides, PTSD, addictions, etc.
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Old 18th June 2018, 08:05 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Not quite. What I cannot grasp is how someone could partake in the extreme of demented behavior and not have it seeping out of every corner of their lives.

For instance, each and every serious criminal I have known (8-11, depending on what you call known v acquainted with), you could see it coming a mile away, because they were so screwed up they couldn't function among the normals. So how do you go from picking up the dry cleaning, raping a toddler, feeding the dog, etc? I would think that depth of depravity would make you unable to assimilate.
Dennis Rader, the BTK killer, seemed to be the last guy anyone expected. So did Russell Williams, a colonel in the Canadian Air Force. Both of them functioned just fine, apart from being serial killers of course.
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Old 18th June 2018, 08:20 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yes, but I think there is a measure of altruism inherent in the ability to engage in warfare, and the hell that comes with it. Many don't assimilate back, from disproportionate suicides, PTSD, addictions, etc.
Yea but it is understandable to have say one psychopath. WHen you have large number of people perfectly happy to do awful immoral things and treat it as no big deal. Look at the border patrol now.

Or the cop who rapes the rape victim of another cop. https://nypost.com/2018/05/10/detect...-instead-cops/

Immorality seems to be far more widely spread than many people think.
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Old 18th June 2018, 08:22 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Dennis Rader, the BTK killer, seemed to be the last guy anyone expected. So did Russell Williams, a colonel in the Canadian Air Force. Both of them functioned just fine, apart from being serial killers of course.
I'm having trouble finding the words here. A normal person can be pushed to killing, as in the case of a combat vet or cop. But raping a child shows a profundity of miswiring that I would think should render one incapable of even acting normal.
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Old 18th June 2018, 08:24 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'm having trouble finding the words here. A normal person can be pushed to killing, as in the case of a combat vet or cop. But raping a child shows a profundity of miswiring that I would think should render one incapable of even acting normal.
That is the key word, they are acting all the time, pretending to feel emotions that they don't. If they can function in society they have learned to play along.
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Old 18th June 2018, 08:31 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
That is the key word, they are acting all the time, pretending to feel emotions that they don't. If they can function in society they have learned to play along.
Maybe they are a perfect storm of social, biological, moral, and legal warping accompanied by Academy award winning action skills? I don't get it
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Old 18th June 2018, 08:34 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'm having trouble finding the words here. A normal person can be pushed to killing, as in the case of a combat vet or cop. But raping a child shows a profundity of miswiring that I would think should render one incapable of even acting normal.
What exactly are you saying, though?

That it's difficult for you to understand?

That it shouldn't be possible?

That it isn't possible?

Are you asking us to help you understand it? Or just blogging about your incredulity?
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Old 18th June 2018, 08:40 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What exactly are you saying, though?

That it's difficult for you to understand?

That it shouldn't be possible?

That it isn't possible?

Are you asking us to help you understand it? Or just blogging about your incredulity?
I'm asking for what I asked for in the OP, that I am confident there are posters here with some experience in this field who might lend some insight. Other reading I have done has proven unsatisfying and I would think a skeptic with training and experience might help
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Old 18th June 2018, 08:47 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Maybe they are a perfect storm of social, biological, moral, and legal warping accompanied by Academy award winning action skills? I don't get it
Take a look at The Psychopath Test by John Ronson.
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Old 18th June 2018, 08:50 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Maybe they are a perfect storm of social, biological, moral, and legal warping accompanied by Academy award winning action skills? I don't get it

You don't. You are misleading yourself by thinking those should all be treated as somehow different things.

Psychopath or sociopath, they feel no obligation to conform to any socially expected ethical norm unless it is to their benefit. They don't perceive any difference in ignoring a legal norm or a moral one.

I suppose you could call that a "perfect storm", but it is only one storm.

The ability to act in a manner which makes them seem to conform to social expectations is one which they practice from childhood. It is no real surprise that they are adept at it, it is quite literally the only way they interact with other people at all. When they are not then they tend to find themselves institutionalized in one way or another. The ones who evade that are the most adept of all.

Most people have the preconception that mental disease is something which always has visible outward signs, but this is largely because their only experience and recognition of it is defined by those illnesses which have visible outward signs, usually obvious ones.
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Old 18th June 2018, 09:26 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
That is the key word, they are acting all the time, pretending to feel emotions that they don't. If they can function in society they have learned to play along.
You are framing this as if this person's "regular everyday life" must be a charade of acting. I don't think that that can be assumed. Other than when he is interacting with the child and her mother, this person may not be "acting" in public and everyday life any differently than a person who has not molested a child.

When he goes on his usual regular visit to the supermarket and gets his groceries and thanks the deli worker for slicing his cheese is the whole thing some sort of act? What would he do differently about getting groceries and cheese if he weren't acting?
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Old 18th June 2018, 12:57 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'm asking for what I asked for in the OP, that I am confident there are posters here with some experience in this field who might lend some insight. Other reading I have done has proven unsatisfying and I would think a skeptic with training and experience might help

Not much is needed and your finding the answer "unsatisfying" is not really relevant. It's perfectly possible for any human being to act pretty much the same as everyone else around them, but still do horrible things. It's perfectly possible for any human being to be pretty much the same as everyone else around them, and still do horrible things. Some of it is cultural, some of it is individual.

Individually, child molesters typically come in two types - preferential and opportunistic.

Preferential molesters are pretty much the same as anyone else, except that there is one bit of wiring in their brain that is dysfunctional. They have pretty normal lives, and can have pretty normal relationships otherwise, but they have a part of them that pushes their sexual desires in a deviant direction. There is a good deal of evidence that a lot of this is learned, as a very large percentage of such preferential offenders were themselves sexually abused as children, so that is how their sexuality developed.

Opportunistic offenders are a wider variety, and the majority qualify as some form of Antisocial Personality Disorder, aka psychopath/sociopath in popular parlance. Others have already addressed the issues with ASPD types.

One factor that does not get sufficiently address is the cultural factor, pressure from peers and the wider society. One thing you will invariably notice when mass atrocities, such as genocides or ethnic cleansings, take place is that the mainstream culture has been taught to view the targets of atrocities as subhuman. They do not consider such people to be equally human, and equally persons. This type of dehumanization and depersonalization is commonplace, and you can hear frequent examples of it. Not just, for example, the sort of stereotypical overt racism that is used to justify slavery or routine killing of minorities by police, or the sort of anti-LGTBQ attitudes that justify "gay bashing", bathroom bills, and other attacks on LGTBQ people; but a more subtle form of exclusion/marginalization based on fear of the "Other".

Crowd pressure is a common part of this, and when one's neighors are "going along" with the antisocial behaviour, it's hard for individuals to resist, especially if it fits in with and reinforced their own prejudices. Nazi German is the obvious example here, but there are many others. In many cases of "gay bashing" and other attacks on sexual minorities, or cases of gang rapes, or lynching parties, and so on, there is generally a single instigator; a significantly charismatic and/or forceful individual who proposes and begins the action, one or two followers who support said individual, and then a greater mass of people who go along with it, often without giving it the slightest thought.

No one is fully immune to the effects of crowd pressure, although some are more willing to resist it than others. In many cases, people will go along wit the crowd simply out of fear that they could be the next victim.

But on a more individual level, there can still be that feeling of public approbation. In cases like this, there is a culture of dehumanization and depersonalization. These are not human children, they are "animals", sub-human entities that do not warrant human empathy. When one is already possessed of deviant urges, removing the victim's humanity from the equation makes it much easier to act on those urges. ASPD types already do not view others as fully human, and spend their lives learning how to manipulate those around them, to blend in, and to get what they want. Others with more normal development can nonetheless find themselves in situation where that sense of dehumanization and depersonalization can enable them to commit acts that they would never even consider committing on someone they viewed as more like them.

"Othering" those one considers undesirables is a very powerful tool to enable some pretty reprehensible behaviour; which is why, for example, the current US government administration has made such a concerted effort to dehumanize and depersonalize illegal immigrants, referring to them as "animals" and playing up an almost entirely imaginary threat. Play on peoples' fears, play up the "otherness", and it will be easy to get away with nearly anything. This particular case is hardly an isolated incident. It's a problem that is commonplace to refugee camps and detention centers all over the world. Rape of children is a near-daily occurrence under such circumstances.
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Old 19th June 2018, 06:25 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Not quite. What I cannot grasp is how someone could partake in the extreme of demented behavior and not have it seeping out of every corner of their lives.

For instance, each and every serious criminal I have known (8-11, depending on what you call known v acquainted with), you could see it coming a mile away, because they were so screwed up they couldn't function among the normals.
I briefly worked in a prison a couple of years ago. Not an officer or anything, I was just doing some office work in their education department. There was a guy who worked in the office, let's call him Peter. In his mid 20s, really nice guy. Always chatty, always had a joke and a smile. Just really pleasant as could be. His job was basically the office gopher. Made tea, cleaned up, fetched things for people, etc.

I'd been there about a week when a situation arose in which there were three people in the office - me, Peter, and one other guy. The other guy needed to go somewhere, but he said he couldn't because he couldn't leave me alone with Peter. I hadn't had the security briefing or been issued with keys yet, you see, and thus I was not allowed to be left alone with a prisoner. This was how I learned that Peter was a prisoner rather than another employee. I asked what he'd done. "He's eight years into a life sentence for murder."

Whilst I was there I didn't meet that many prisoners, maybe a couple of dozen. And to be fair, Peter and one or two others were the only ones I spent a whole lot of time around. Mostly it was guys coming in to ask for files for a teacher or stuff like that.

But I never met a single one of them that seemed weird or dangerous or anything like that. Every one of them came across to me as just another guy. Maybe it's that guys like that were kept under tighter security far from me - I only really worked in that one office, and there was plenty of the prison that I never saw. (Interestingly, Rolf Harris was there whilst I was. I never met him, but I did handle his file.) So it may be selection bias. But criminals can often come across as perfectly normal, at least in my experience.

Quote:
So how do you go from picking up the dry cleaning, raping a toddler, feeding the dog, etc? I would think that depth of depravity would make you unable to assimilate.
I'm still not getting it.

If Mr Smith rapes a child... what would stop him from then picking up the dry cleaning? I'm not being facetious or anything, I am just mystified by what the problem would be. Are you saying Smith's manner would necessarily be so creepy or weird that everyone who spent more than ten seconds with him would call the cops or something? Or is the suggestion that child rapists literally cannot function - that he'd set out to get his dry cleaning and then suddenly find himself compelled to go park outside a school or something?
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Old 19th June 2018, 07:52 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
If Mr Smith rapes a child... what would stop him from then picking up the dry cleaning? I'm not being facetious or anything, I am just mystified by what the problem would be. Are you saying Smith's manner would necessarily be so creepy or weird that everyone who spent more than ten seconds with him would call the cops or something? Or is the suggestion that child rapists literally cannot function - that he'd set out to get his dry cleaning and then suddenly find himself compelled to go park outside a school or something?

That's actually a pretty common attitude regarding child molesters in particular, but a whole lot anti-social types of offenders in general. People want them to be easily distinguishable, to be separate, "other". Someone they can point to and say "avoid someone like that and you'll be safe". They invest such people with a stereotypical image, a creepy, lurking, scary-looking outsider. They don't like the idea that literally anyone they know could do something truly awful, that their close family members, the polite and friendly neighbor they've known for years, the family doctor, the clerk at the local bank, the pastor at their church, anyone at all could be the sort of person who can commit acts that cause serious harm to them and their loved ones.

They want to believe that evil is something outside and separate from themselves and their community, easily to identify and oppose; rather than something that is inherent to all humans, even themselves under the wrong sort of circumstances. That's why scapegoating is so effective, why it's so easy for demagogues to point to an already-marginalized group and convince people that said group is responsible for all perceived social ills, and that further marginalizing or outright eliminating said group would fix so many of the persistent social problems. Jews run the world behind the scenes and are the reason the economy is in such bad shape, black people are rapists and drug pushers who live on welfare money that we pay for, Mexicans are stealing our jobs keeping us unemployed, queers and atheists are corrupting our good Christian children and destroying our godly culture, and so on.
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Old 19th June 2018, 07:53 AM   #23
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It's almost a cliche but the one child molester I knew was an English and Religious Education teacher at my secondary school (ages 11/12-17/18). He seemed a nice chap, quiet, reasonable when you didn't discuss his particular dogma. Then at Uni I saw my hometown on a newspaper headline and he'd just been found guilty of multiple charges of sexual assault against school boys he'd taken on camping trips on the mainland. He was quoted "I never did anything with them they didn't want."
A psychologist once told me that one difference between neurosis and psychosis is that the former is often systemic and intrudes into many areas of a person's life : think depression for example. Whereas psychosis can often be highly specific, someone seems completely normal then one little thing or topic comes up and the crazy just flows out of them.
There's a moment I found particularly chilling and couldn't get my head around in the movie Spotlight about the Boston Globe's expose of abuse of kids by priests. One cheerfully admits to it but it was ok because "he took no pleasure in the act".
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Old 19th June 2018, 07:59 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
I briefly worked in a prison a couple of years ago. Not an officer or anything, I was just doing some office work in their education department. There was a guy who worked in the office, let's call him Peter. In his mid 20s, really nice guy. Always chatty, always had a joke and a smile. Just really pleasant as could be. His job was basically the office gopher. Made tea, cleaned up, fetched things for people, etc.

I'd been there about a week when a situation arose in which there were three people in the office - me, Peter, and one other guy. The other guy needed to go somewhere, but he said he couldn't because he couldn't leave me alone with Peter. I hadn't had the security briefing or been issued with keys yet, you see, and thus I was not allowed to be left alone with a prisoner. This was how I learned that Peter was a prisoner rather than another employee. I asked what he'd done. "He's eight years into a life sentence for murder."

Whilst I was there I didn't meet that many prisoners, maybe a couple of dozen. And to be fair, Peter and one or two others were the only ones I spent a whole lot of time around. Mostly it was guys coming in to ask for files for a teacher or stuff like that.

But I never met a single one of them that seemed weird or dangerous or anything like that. Every one of them came across to me as just another guy. Maybe it's that guys like that were kept under tighter security far from me - I only really worked in that one office, and there was plenty of the prison that I never saw. (Interestingly, Rolf Harris was there whilst I was. I never met him, but I did handle his file.) So it may be selection bias. But criminals can often come across as perfectly normal, at least in my experience.
I get a murderer. A normal person can be pushed to killing. Even some kinds of torture, as in enhanced interrogation. A serial killer would have the added sociopathic element. But I see some crimes as going where a normal person could never go, ie raping a toddler. It's...inhuman. So what I am wondering is how they negotiate between being inhuman and normal. Is it, as ponderingturtle opined, a constant act of being human when around others? Is it more of a psychotic break that they are only vaguely aware of when not actually doing it? I'm not talking about the generic descriptions upthread. The level of heinousness in the OP would seem to me to render any kind of human interaction a farce. So how do they do it? Brilliant, 24/7 acting? Willful dissociation? An involuntary break with reality? Believing that everyone else does similar things and the hiding of it is normal?


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I'm still not getting it.

If Mr Smith rapes a child... what would stop him from then picking up the dry cleaning? I'm not being facetious or anything, I am just mystified by what the problem would be. Are you saying Smith's manner would necessarily be so creepy or weird that everyone who spent more than ten seconds with him would call the cops or something? Or is the suggestion that child rapists literally cannot function - that he'd set out to get his dry cleaning and then suddenly find himself compelled to go park outside a school or something?
Well, people I have known who committed serious crimes, yes, they radiated being 'off'. It showed in every move and word. It seems like there would be a transition between incomprehensible monster and picking up dry cleaning, if you excuse the hyperbole. In the Parkland school shooting, students said they knew who the shooter was right off.

In prisons, it is reported thet there are two unforgivable offenses: snitching (for practical reasons), and child molestation. Even among murderers, rapists, and serial killers, this is unacceptable and beyond the pale. If a truly sociopathic murderer cannot reconcile such a crime, how does the child rapist get through the day?
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Old 19th June 2018, 08:07 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
That's actually a pretty common attitude regarding child molesters in particular, but a whole lot anti-social types of offenders in general. People want them to be easily distinguishable, to be separate, "other". Someone they can point to and say "avoid someone like that and you'll be safe". They invest such people with a stereotypical image, a creepy, lurking, scary-looking outsider. They don't like the idea that literally anyone they know could do something truly awful, that their close family members, the polite and friendly neighbor they've known for years, the family doctor, the clerk at the local bank, the pastor at their church, anyone at all could be the sort of person who can commit acts that cause serious harm to them and their loved ones.

They want to believe that evil is something outside and separate from themselves and their community, easily to identify and oppose; rather than something that is inherent to all humans, even themselves under the wrong sort of circumstances. That's why scapegoating is so effective, why it's so easy for demagogues to point to an already-marginalized group and convince people that said group is responsible for all perceived social ills, and that further marginalizing or outright eliminating said group would fix so many of the persistent social problems. Jews run the world behind the scenes and are the reason the economy is in such bad shape, black people are rapists and drug pushers who live on welfare money that we pay for, Mexicans are stealing our jobs keeping us unemployed, queers and atheists are corrupting our good Christian children and destroying our godly culture, and so on.
Avoiding openly sociopathic types is racism, antisemitism, homophopia, and general bigotry? Ok.
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Old 19th June 2018, 08:17 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Well, people I have known who committed serious crimes, yes, they radiated being 'off'. It showed in every move and word.
When they reach for a glass of water their aim is off by several inches and they have to make a sudden correction. When they walk the left foot kicks out and swings widely. When they say hello they pronounce it as "hekko".
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Old 19th June 2018, 08:30 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
how does the child rapist get through the day?
I was the first person to use the word "rape" in this thread. It was before I read what he did and I assumed he had screwed her. He touched her genitals. Rape is a term commonly associated with forced or nonconsensual penetration with the penis. If your definition of rape is that one then the term is inaccurate if used for this specific incident.
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Old 19th June 2018, 08:36 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I was the first person to use the word "rape" in this thread. It was before I read what he did and I assumed he had screwed her. He touched her genitals. Rape is a term commonly associated with forced or nonconsensual penetration with the penis. If your definition of rape is that one then the term is inaccurate if used for this specific incident.
The OP is a kick-off for the question I am asking. Hopefully, a poster with experience has some insight. The correction you are giving, as well as the previous straw man, are unnecessary.
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Old 19th June 2018, 09:05 AM   #29
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WTF is going on here?
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Old 19th June 2018, 11:13 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
WTF is going on here?
I've been seeing a lot of this neglecting to care about accuracy lately.
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Old 19th June 2018, 03:44 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
But I see some crimes as going where a normal person could never go, ie raping a toddler. It's...inhuman.

I understand that it's easier to think of it like that, but in fact it's not inhuman at all. It's a normal human brain with just a minor defect in wiring, either due to birth or later development. And it's a bit hypocritical to say that you can understand murder or torture or sexually-motivated murder (ie. serial killer), and say that you cannot understand sexual deviancy. They're nearly all results of the same process, a defect in neurological development.

And that's your problem. You insist on creating categories and separations and differences that simply do not exist in nature.

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Well, people I have known who committed serious crimes, yes, they radiated being 'off'.

This is the problem right here, you already knew, therefore your interactions with and experiences of them were coloured by your pre-existing knowledge. It's essentially a post hoc fallacy. They are not making you feel "off" by the way that the act, you are interpreting the way the act through a pre-exiting feeling induced by knowledge of their offenses.

I can guarantee that you interact with a large handful of people in the course of a week who have committed some sort of serious crime, and you will not be able to point them out with any accuracy.

If you look at the various websites set up to track them, you can see that there are extremely few neighborhoods in the country that do not have sex offenders residing in them, except in those jurisdictions that ban their residence entirely. And in many jurisdictions that do allow them, they only require that higher-level offenders be displayed, low-level offenders are not, and are much more common.

And there are a whole lot of paedophiles out there who have never committed any sort of offense, and aren't likely to. The sheer prevalence of virtual child porn is conclusive evidence of that, eg. "lolicon" anime and manga. There are numerous websites devoted to the stuff that are stupidly easy to find.

If it were easy to just point out someone who has committed this sort of crime or was likely to, the way that you claim that you can, just by their demeanor and body language, then it would be impossible for them to commit the offenses that they do. But the fact is that they aren't so different.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Avoiding openly sociopathic types is racism, antisemitism, homophopia, and general bigotry? Ok.

I'm sorry, I thought you were asking honestly and were interested in real inquiry and debate. Since with this comment you've demonstrated that you're only here to preach your particular worldview, then I won't bother responding to anything else you post.
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Old 19th June 2018, 08:40 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
I understand that it's easier to think of it like that, but in fact it's not inhuman at all. It's a normal human brain with just a minor defect in wiring, either due to birth or later development. And it's a bit hypocritical to say that you can understand murder or torture or sexually-motivated murder (ie. serial killer), and say that you cannot understand sexual deviancy. They're nearly all results of the same process, a defect in neurological development.
Did you actually describe toddler-raping as resulting from 'just a minor defect in wiring'? Not only minor, but just?

Quote:
And that's your problem. You insist on creating categories and separations and differences that simply do not exist in nature.
I was not aware that the raping of young was so commonplace in nature. I was gong to ask for a citation, but I think I'll give it a miss.

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This is the problem right here, you already knew, therefore your interactions with and experiences of them were coloured by your pre-existing knowledge. It's essentially a post hoc fallacy. They are not making you feel "off" by the way that the act, you are interpreting the way the act through a pre-exiting feeling induced by knowledge of their offenses.

I can guarantee that you interact with a large handful of people in the course of a week who have committed some sort of serious crime, and you will not be able to point them out with any accuracy.

If you look at the various websites set up to track them, you can see that there are extremely few neighborhoods in the country that do not have sex offenders residing in them, except in those jurisdictions that ban their residence entirely. And in many jurisdictions that do allow them, they only require that higher-level offenders be displayed, low-level offenders are not, and are much more common.

And there are a whole lot of paedophiles out there who have never committed any sort of offense, and aren't likely to. The sheer prevalence of virtual child porn is conclusive evidence of that, eg. "lolicon" anime and manga. There are numerous websites devoted to the stuff that are stupidly easy to find.

If it were easy to just point out someone who has committed this sort of crime or was likely to, the way that you claim that you can, just by their demeanor and body language, then it would be impossible for them to commit the offenses that they do. But the fact is that they aren't so different.

I'm sorry, I thought you were asking honestly and were interested in real inquiry and debate. Since with this comment you've demonstrated that you're only here to preach your particular worldview, then I won't bother responding to anything else you post.
That's pretty funny, coming on the heels of your random soapboxing, including your recent diatribe climaxing with...Christians?

I have stated my starting POV in the hopes that someone with experience could shed some light on the subject. Your telling me that all pedophiles don't act on their desires is both obvious and irrelevant. I'm inquiring about those that do act on them, and how their minds work, Which you dismissively think it is 'just a minor defect'.
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Old 20th June 2018, 01:57 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Did you actually describe toddler-raping as resulting from 'just a minor defect in wiring'? Not only minor, but just?
You're conflating cause and effect. PKE has massive effects through the body yet is really a minor defect in biochemistry. The Challenger disaster was caused by one small error.
It's one of the commonest themes in literature - the core of tragedies like Hamlet are people with just one defect which brings on disaster.

As I said, the child molester at my school seemed a typical teacher, a normal person, taught at school, preached at some Protestant denomination which escapes me now, volunteered at this scheme which took kids camping. And then you turn over the rock.
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Old 20th June 2018, 02:06 AM   #34
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In regards to the case of the immigrant kids here's a sample of the dehumanizing some people exhibit to justify it.
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Old 20th June 2018, 07:29 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
You're conflating cause and effect. PKE has massive effects through the body yet is really a minor defect in biochemistry. The Challenger disaster was caused by one small error.
It's one of the commonest themes in literature - the core of tragedies like Hamlet are people with just one defect which brings on disaster.

Exactly. Small defects in neurological functioning can have profound effects; and there is a good deal of evidence that such defects can be induced during brain development as children, the result of persistent trauma.

Just look at the sharp drop in violent crime rates during the '90s, which corresponded with the elimination of lead from petrol. A whole generation grew up without constant exposure to the high levels of environmental lead that the previous generations had experienced since the post-war automobile boom of the 1950s. Just a simple little thing, causing a small change in neurological development, which lead to lowered intelligence, increased aggression, and a whole host of neurological dysfunction.

Likewise, the neurological dysfunction that results in paedophilia and child molestation is a very small one, but one which has profound long-term effects on neurological development.

Most common mental illnesses are the same, a minor defect in wiring that produced significant long-term effects that can be difficult to manage. There is a growing body of evidence that drug addiction is itself directly related to these sorts of subtle mental illnesses and developmental defects. A medical issue not a moral failing.

Some people simply refuse to accept the science, and keep demanding some sort of metaphysical explanation that absolves them of any need to truly understand the problem or how to remedy it. One that allows them to paint neurological dysfunction as a moral failing to be castigated and punished, rather than a medical condition to be treated. One that allows them to deny the humanity of such people and engage in bloodlust fantasies regarding them. One that absolves them of the responsibility to enact and fund prevention and treatment programs to deal with the core problems, and to prevent offenders from re-offending while still permitting them to be functional and productive members of society. One that allows them to feel superior to others, instead of merely fortunate to be free of such dysfunctions.

Looking at the science behind sex offenses, a number of states in the US have moved away from the pure punishment model, and to a program that focuses on medical treatment rather than incarceration and ostracization. Those states have seen precipitous drops in recidivism rates compared to states that still insist on retaining the old punishment model.
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Old 20th June 2018, 07:42 AM   #36
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Old 20th June 2018, 07:47 AM   #37
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One thing I always like to point out: the key to being a successful slimy used car salesman is to make everyone think you aren't slimy. Hell, not looking slimy is one of the key attributes needed to be a slimy used car salesman. If you couldn't hide that fact, you couldn't get away with it. Being friendly and likable does not mean you can't be slime. It is almost necessary with getting away with being slime.

I'm sure there are pedophiles who are obviously lecherous creeps as Thermal envisions. But then again, people who are obviously lecherous creeps aren't getting into positions of trust. Who's likely to be the more successful predator? The guy offering candy out of the back of his van at playgrounds? Or the Sheriff's Deputy who is teaching children about the dangers of strangers?

I'm not asking who is more likely to BE a predator, but if they are both predators, who's going to be successful?
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Old 20th June 2018, 08:25 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
You're conflating cause and effect. PKE has massive effects through the body yet is really a minor defect in biochemistry. The Challenger disaster was caused by one small error.
It's one of the commonest themes in literature - the core of tragedies like Hamlet are people with just one defect which brings on disaster.

As I said, the child molester at my school seemed a typical teacher, a normal person, taught at school, preached at some Protestant denomination which escapes me now, volunteered at this scheme which took kids camping. And then you turn over the rock.
I'm not conflating. They are different subjects. I am talking about the effects of a landfall hurricane, and that post tried to reframe it to a discussion about the butterfly whose wings set it in motion. Anything can be trivialized down to a small initial event, but a discussion of, for instance, the current actions of the Islamic State need not include the assassination of Ferdinand.
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Old 20th June 2018, 08:31 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
One thing I always like to point out: the key to being a successful slimy used car salesman is to make everyone think you aren't slimy. Hell, not looking slimy is one of the key attributes needed to be a slimy used car salesman. If you couldn't hide that fact, you couldn't get away with it. Being friendly and likable does not mean you can't be slime. It is almost necessary with getting away with being slime.

I'm sure there are pedophiles who are obviously lecherous creeps as Thermal envisions. But then again, people who are obviously lecherous creeps aren't getting into positions of trust. Who's likely to be the more successful predator? The guy offering candy out of the back of his van at playgrounds? Or the Sheriff's Deputy who is teaching children about the dangers of strangers?

I'm not asking who is more likely to BE a predator, but if they are both predators, who's going to be successful?
Yes, and it is the mechanism of the 'sucessful' predator that I am interested in. Instead of perceiving them as monsters, I am trying to get a handle on how the psychology works in practice. Do they function as a split personality, or is it a constant act, or what?
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Old 20th June 2018, 09:29 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yes, and it is the mechanism of the 'sucessful' predator that I am interested in. Instead of perceiving them as monsters, I am trying to get a handle on how the psychology works in practice. Do they function as a split personality, or is it a constant act, or what?

They do normal, daily things normally ... and daily.

They don't go around wearing Snidely Whiplash capes and twirling their handlebar mustaches while chuckling evilly.

They don't have drooling, half melted faces, or trench coats with nothing on underneath them.

Why is that so difficult to grasp?

They look and behave just like everyone else. Until they don't.

That's because there is no reason for them not to until they choose not to.

It might help to keep in mind some basic statistics, like (for example) the groups most dangerous to a small child are ... in rough order of frequency ... parents, other family members and relatives, and family acquaintances, with strangers, scary looking or otherwise, comprising well under 10% of the total of culprits.

And yet, nearly all of our laws and public warnings are about "stranger danger", even though the odds are that the child might actually be safer with a stranger.

This is because, like you, people have trouble imagining that evil doesn't have to look like evil.
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