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25th January 2009, 04:45 PM | #1 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Origin of 'Those who can't do teach"
I was wondering if Woody Allen was the creator of this phrase. He wrote it in 1977:
"Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, teach gym". Does it date back earlier than that? |
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25th January 2009, 05:35 PM | #2 |
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Allen's version strikes me as a play on the original, taking it to the next level of absurdity and humor. Based on what little I know of Woody Allen, jokes, and language, I'd guess by the structure (three-part, rather than two-part) and context (a movie by a known comedian), that it's not the original.
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25th January 2009, 06:15 PM | #3 |
Thinker
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I believe the original to be...
He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches. Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for Revolutionists" George Bernard Shaw. |
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30th January 2009, 08:32 AM | #4 |
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Beat me to it - I use it frequently.
More's the pity. |
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30th January 2009, 08:37 AM | #5 |
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30th January 2009, 11:29 AM | #6 |
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I don't know the origin, but I've always known it as:
Those that can, do Those that can't, teach And those that can't teach teach teachers. Dave |
30th January 2009, 12:40 PM | #7 |
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Or, the related version I know...
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, administrate. |
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4th February 2009, 10:31 PM | #8 |
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The version I use
Those who can, do Those who can't, teach Those who can't teach, write about those that do and teach. |
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5th February 2009, 12:17 AM | #9 |
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5th February 2009, 12:21 AM | #10 |
Illuminator
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I heard it as,
"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, teach at Community College." I'm sure it varies to circumstances. |
5th February 2009, 12:08 PM | #11 |
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Those who can't do, teach.
Those who can't teach, manage. Those who can't manage, consult. There is a relevant short story by... Orson Scott Card? The main character is an assistant principal who works his behind off and is rewarded with the position of principal. CT (runs a consulting company, and manages) |
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5th February 2009, 12:17 PM | #12 |
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Quote:
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5th February 2009, 12:51 PM | #13 |
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It's a pragmatic statement, essentially playing on the difference between athletic and intellectual motivations. Because both disciplines would be superior, it quietly encourages it's own invalidation.
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5th February 2009, 01:15 PM | #14 |
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5th February 2009, 02:38 PM | #15 |
Philosopher
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Thanks, this is interesting news for me. I also find it interesting that the phrasing and context of this original comes across as affirmational of teaching, while the modern equivalents come across as derogatory against teachers.
To me the above implies external factors preventing one from taking action, while the modern versions seem to imply internal lack of ability. |
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6th February 2009, 09:15 PM | #16 |
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Ah ****. I can't do. That's plain enough. I tried teaching, but it turned out I couldn't do that either. What's left for me?
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6th February 2009, 09:22 PM | #17 |
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Those who can, foster progress.
Those who can't, foster progress reports. |
7th February 2009, 09:44 PM | #18 |
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I had a colleague who taught AP chemistry a few years back. He had this great T-shirt:
Those who can, do. Those who can do more, teach. And yes I'm a teacher. I teach high school AP physics & college physics/astronomy. There are a lot of damn good teachers out there, but I will also be the first to admit there are a lot of idiots in classrooms out there as well (and I don't mean the students). |
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8th February 2009, 08:27 AM | #19 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Well, teaching is a skill. The broader skill mix you demand, the less levels you have to expect, because people can't be brilliant at everything.
If you want a brilliant physicist, it's hard enough to find them. If you want a brilliant physicist who is also a brilliant teacher, it's much harder. So it's not surprising that the DoD -- which doesn't care about teaching -- hires better physicists than St. Grottlesex. If you want a brilliant physicist who is also a brilliant teacher, a concert oboeist, and an Olympic gymnast.... I don't think such a person exists. So if you want to hire a physics teacher who can also play oboe in the school band and coach the gymnastics team, you'll have to settle for adequacy, or perhaps even "barely competent," in at least one of those areas. |
8th February 2009, 10:29 AM | #20 |
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I've always said it this way "them what can does, them what can't talks about it"
I learned this as a kid, probably from my dad, who WANTED to be a teacher. |
8th February 2009, 11:21 AM | #21 |
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I always thought it was
If you can't work, then teach. If you can't teach, then administrate. If you can't administrate, then legislate. If you can't legislate, then litigate. |
9th February 2009, 08:30 PM | #22 |
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20th February 2009, 04:31 AM | #23 |
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In Japan, it goes like this:
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, teach EFL. |
20th February 2009, 05:45 AM | #24 |
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Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, 1945 |
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20th February 2009, 05:54 AM | #25 |
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I don't know if Woody Allen said that but its true.
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20th February 2009, 09:08 PM | #26 |
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What, about gym teachers?
Woody Allen was making a joke, a spoof, a parody, a send off of the original quote. Anybody who sincerely thinks the original is true probably doesn't know anything worth teaching. |
21st February 2009, 05:03 AM | #27 |
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The phrase is a gross simplification of the truth. It probably refers to teachers of children only. I have been taught by teachers as a adult heaps of times. There are two types of teacher
1. Those that are good at teaching what they know. They teach as their job. However if you ask them a tricky question then they do not know the answer. This sort of person the phrase is aimed at. 2. These people are not really teachers. They only teach part time. For the rest of the time they actually do the work. They know everything or nearly everything about the subject. However they may not know how to teach. |
23rd February 2009, 06:13 PM | #28 |
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23rd February 2009, 09:13 PM | #29 |
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Is it really that big of a skill? The only real thing I've ever needed to have teaching people is patience. The other problem is knowing what the hell you are talking about. If you fail at that you are screwed and this is coming from someone whose has had complete mastery over subjects to being one theory short of actually explaining a subject. As for high school classes I could probably teach physics, eventually chemistry (Given the weird and freakishly random direction my career just took), almost every single type of high school math, and maybe biology.
Quote:
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24th February 2009, 06:22 PM | #30 |
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24th February 2009, 06:30 PM | #31 |
Illuminator
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If you think teaching is so easy, give it a shot. Most places have programs for getting certified. After you have taught a required class to average level high school students or middle school students, come back and post something right here. Have your students post something too. My bet is that it would be significantly different.
A good teacher inspires students. See if you can. Those that can, do... thost that can do better teach... those that can't do either one, criticize. glenn |
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24th February 2009, 06:47 PM | #32 |
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It's amazing how many of these "paranormal" icons seem to merge together. There always seem to be theories about how they link together in some way. I'm sure someone has a very good explanation as to how Bigfoot killed JFK to help cover Roswell.-Mark Mekes This isn't rocket surgery.-Bill Nye |
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24th February 2009, 07:15 PM | #33 |
Illuminator
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Anyone with an education can stand in front of students and regurgitate their brain. Try getting in front of a high school class or a middle school class and see how many are inspired. You will get to know your students fairly well... Give is a shot--see if you can survive--most don't. glenn |
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Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence Carl Sagan |
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24th February 2009, 08:28 PM | #34 |
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It's amazing how many of these "paranormal" icons seem to merge together. There always seem to be theories about how they link together in some way. I'm sure someone has a very good explanation as to how Bigfoot killed JFK to help cover Roswell.-Mark Mekes This isn't rocket surgery.-Bill Nye |
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25th February 2009, 11:39 AM | #35 |
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25th February 2009, 04:47 PM | #36 |
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Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence Carl Sagan |
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1st March 2009, 07:46 PM | #37 |
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It's amazing how many of these "paranormal" icons seem to merge together. There always seem to be theories about how they link together in some way. I'm sure someone has a very good explanation as to how Bigfoot killed JFK to help cover Roswell.-Mark Mekes This isn't rocket surgery.-Bill Nye |
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2nd March 2009, 01:22 PM | #38 |
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Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence Carl Sagan |
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2nd March 2009, 01:31 PM | #39 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Because it's hard making people want to do something.
It's especially hard making people want to do something that's difficult and not especially fun. Did you ever play an instrument in school? I, personally, found that practicing was both dull and difficult, and there were usually other things that would have been more fun, like playing outside, watching TV, or sitting and reading a book. For the most part, I practiced because my parents yelled at me if I didn't. On the other hand, I enjoyed -- and still enjoy -- just "messing around" on my instrument; playing songs that I liked to play instead of songs that had been assigned by the teacher to master. Similarly, I always loved to read -- certain types of books, that is. I loved adventure fiction, fantasy, space opera, detective fiction, and a lot of non-fiction as well (although I always hated biography). But I also hated most of the stuff I was assigned in high school. I felt -- and still feel -- that most of the 19th century should be taken out and shot. Dickens is bad enough; I'll actually give him credit for A Christmas Carol, but Oliver Twist is just tedious. And the entire "gothic-fiction" genre (Turn of the Screw) made Oliver seem positively exciting. So I was the sort of student who would put down The Turn of the Screw to read Lives of a Cell. That delighted my biology teacher and ticked the hell out of my English lit teacher, for obvious reasons. What could the English teacher have done to make me actually want to put down Lives instead? That is inspiration, and that's something that typically only a very good teacher can do, especially for a class of forty. ETA: And, more specifically -- what could you have done? Go ahead, persuade the fifteen-year old me that what you want me to do is more important than what I want to do, enough that I'll actually go home and work on it. |
3rd March 2009, 05:01 PM | #40 |
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