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Tags Deep State conspiracies , government conspiracies , Kevin Shipp

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Old 6th September 2017, 04:26 AM   #41
Border Reiver
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Yes Saggy view of the world is cartoonish at best.
Which is grossly unfair to cartoons.

It has been my observation that most people expressing views similar to Saggy's have a very poor understanding of history. They rarely to even reach a level of understanding equal to that of a grade school student, preferring to stick with the equivalent of a TV sound bite - and ignoring all the context and background around whatever is causing them to wet themselves in fear.

It's sad really. People needing to blame their own failings on an other.
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Old 6th September 2017, 07:51 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
Which is grossly unfair to cartoons.

It has been my observation that most people expressing views similar to Saggy's have a very poor understanding of history. They rarely to even reach a level of understanding equal to that of a grade school student, preferring to stick with the equivalent of a TV sound bite - and ignoring all the context and background around whatever is causing them to wet themselves in fear.

It's sad really. People needing to blame their own failings on an other.
You may well be right, and are undoubtedly right about the visible result, but I think it excessively charitable to attribute this to "poor understanding," as ignorance may be impermanent.
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Old 6th September 2017, 10:54 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
The first 12 years after Fort Ord closed it was a daily circus of digging up stuff that was either toxic, or went boom. The explosives were expected on the impact ranges, but they hadn't counted on the fact that those impact ranges changed in 92 years from the time the Great White Fleet used to sail into the bay and shell the place. I'd find 50 gallon drums of god-knows-what at the bottom of gullies, and had to be careful not to step on 75mm anti-tank rounds in a place that was used extensively by the 7thID in the 80's, years after they stopped using that round.

They actually removed the old base's dump site contents, and soil down to almost 30 feet to some other landfill. And the Army Corps of Engineers is tracking an underground bloom of a lubricant used in helicopter engines where they can't track the origin - meaning there's a dump they have yet to find.

Maybe I should sue the government too.
Along the way, every live fire range becomes a EOD nightmare.

In San Francisco it wasn't anything to do with ordnance, it was toxics at both the Hunter's Point shipyards - this report is from this year:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigat...413247033.html

And at Mare Isand:

http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/MareIslandlan...ccessStory.cfm

And Treasure Island:

http://thebulletin.org/treasure-isla...s-nuclear-past

Some of the facts of what is toxic and how toxic it is gets lost quickly in the alternative press race to establish that environmental racism is the root of all evil hereabouts, but there is enough lead paint, asbestos and mold in the old structures that they all need to go in a way that minimizes the release of those materials.

What is buried at those sites is a nightmare from the mundane (used motor oil) to FSM only knows what.
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Old 6th September 2017, 12:29 PM   #44
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One of the bases set up for the nascent Canadian Army (then the Permanent Active Militia) was Woolsley Barracks in London Ontario in 1871. By the 1990s the RCR had long outgrown the base and in the spirit of "let's divest this old place on the locals" started to prep the land for sale and then found that "ordnance disposal" meant something very different over a century ago... Locating thousands of rounds of ammunition for Sniders, martini-Henry's, .303 British, 12pdr solid shot, grenades, flares, and if memory serves , a Colt machine gun.

It was a big case of "What's the easiest way to get rid of this stuff so I can get to the Mess for a pint?"
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Old 7th September 2017, 08:36 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
I'm only 30 minutes in, it lists the numerous secret agencies in the govt, and describes their influence on US policy, politicians, and the 'deep state'. I can't do a good job of summarizing it. There is a lot of real info here...
This is my favorite part right here. ''Hey guys, watch a video I found. It speaks truth to power. I haven't actually watched it all or fact checked, but I take everything on face value and trust me, it's real!!''
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Old 11th September 2017, 11:00 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Don't take my word for it,

New: CIA Agent Whistleblower Risks All To Expose The Shadow Government

Everybody knows this before watching the video, but Kevin Shipp provides the details on the massive secret government running the US.
http://billmoyers.com/story/mike-lof...ow-government/

This essay goes along with what you're saying. The Deep State is real and alive.
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Old 11th September 2017, 11:58 PM   #47
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I'm hoping Deep State makes the Rose Bowl this year.
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Old 12th September 2017, 04:27 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
I'm hoping Deep State makes the Rose Bowl this year.
Gonna be difficult for them unless they can get off the sidelines and out in the open for the passing game.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:15 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
Gonna be difficult for them unless they can get off the sidelines and out in the open for the passing game.
I'm still putting my money on Watsamatta U.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:55 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
Gonna be difficult for them unless they can get off the sidelines and out in the open for the passing game.
Nah, the opposing team will have difficulties with their transportation. Tsk, tsk
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Old 12th September 2017, 09:17 AM   #51
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This year the "smart" money is on Trump U. They've got all the best players, trust me.
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Old 12th September 2017, 09:32 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
I'm still putting my money on Watsamatta U.
I'm going with that great Hawiian institution of higher learning, Kamana Wana Lei U.
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Old 12th September 2017, 09:32 AM   #53
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If the proponents of this type of nonsense really believed it, would they be so eager to reveal these secrets in public? If real these types of conspiracies must permeate every level of our society and involve huge numbers of extraordinarily powerful people. Assassinations, world wars, and vast manipulations of wealth and of populations have been attributed to these conspiracies. And yet the Internet whistle blowers, typically people with no political power themselves or even powerful friends, are eager to reveal "the truth" publicly to all who can call up their web pages or posts.

That is not logical- if they really believed in what they claim they must realize that they are making themselves targets for the most immoral, most powerful, most lawless conspiracy on the planet, a conspiracy with the means and motivation to track them down and disappear them, or frame them for a crime, or simply have them "meet with an accident." I could accept it if someone believed in such a conspiracy and then quietly and carefully went to work to secretly undermine it. But to shout it into the vacuum of cyberspace achieves little and certainly (given the magnitude of the conspiracy) would allow the "truther" to be tracked down (do you really believe that the NSA cannot identify members of ISF if sufficiently motivated?).

Obviously I do not believe any of this crap, but I suspect neither do the advocates who profess it. So the good news is that we are both safe.
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Old 12th September 2017, 10:41 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Some people will believe absolutely any damn thing except the truth. The truth is almost always cock-up rather than conspiracy.
Sometimes there's a conspiracy to cover up the cock-up. Contrary to what most conspiracists think about skeptics, I do not believe everything the government tells me, nor do I believe the government always has my bet interests at heart, but I think most of the bad stuff can be explained by incompetence or petty corruption (politicians or bureaucrats favoring corporate interests over public interest) rather than some grand evil conspiracy.

Believing that everything the government says is a lie is even dumber than believing it's all true. Weather forecasts are frequently wrong, but that's down to the extreme complexity of weather and imperfect data collection, not some grand conspiracy to promote (or hide) global warming.

Last edited by CORed; 12th September 2017 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 12th September 2017, 07:22 PM   #55
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Watched it now. Great lecture cutting right to the basic core of the problem, circumventing all the disinformation the very apparatus described, which counts on operating outside of the awareness of the average American, loves to put out. The very disinformation pseudo-skeptical douchebags (or worse) love to hide behind when they attack people who refuse to take the easy way out like their cowardly selves. Recommended. Time to rock the boat.

Embedded for convenience, 900 thousand views by now:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 14th September 2017, 06:41 PM   #56
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Seeing as how in Joint Professional Military Education they teach about the bureaucratic state and the existence and power of career public servants, the "Deep State" is not really a conspiracy, and as I have learned it is as much a feature,as a bug: positions in the government are in large part not under political sway. Their filling is not governed by some Boss Tweed and not turning over every 2-4 years.
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Old 15th September 2017, 07:56 PM   #57
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Edward Snowden tells the story from his perspective ....

Edward Snowden Explains Who Really Rules The United States

basically that the deep state is running the govt. without constraints, executive, legislative, or constitutional, for goals that only it knows.

He illustrates with examples with which he has first hand knowledge.
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Old 15th September 2017, 08:18 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Edward Snowden tells the story from his perspective ....

Edward Snowden Explains Who Really Rules The United States

basically that the deep state is running the govt. without constraints, executive, legislative, or constitutional, for goals that only it knows.

He illustrates with examples with which he has first hand knowledge.
And how is said Deep State coordinating strategy?
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Old 15th September 2017, 09:11 PM   #59
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Yet all of the data Snowden stole has no mention of this shadowy ruling organization, so how would he know?

The guy was a private contractor, someone who fixed computers and equipment. He never sat in on strategy meetings or briefings, and thus doesn't know jack about the big picture. He doesn't even know what he stole, he just loaded everything that wasn't nailed down onto thumbdrives.

The fact is that Snowden held his beliefs long before he tried to work in intelligence.
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Old 15th September 2017, 09:13 PM   #60
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The new Apple iPhones will use facial recognition technology to unlock them.

So, I predict that within six years some idiot will post a CT thread, outraged that the FBI/CIA/NSA/EIEIO aped this technology for their own dastardly deeds.

How can any reasonable human not see this coming?
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Old 15th September 2017, 11:53 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
So you acknowledge you have no idea what you are talking about?

The Sunnis are far more numerous and wealthy and the far greater threat long term. Saggy your problem is you are trying to pretend you know stuff while your posts show that you haven't got a clue.

For a neo-Nazi wannabee you are laughing stock.

LOL

Edited to add: What does the image have to do with what you are talking about?



The Sunnis already have 130 warheads (estimate)
Shia and Sunni are only dangerous when they leave their countries and come to ours. If they stay contained in their God forsaken waste lands--Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc--they present no danger to the United States or Europe.
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Old 16th September 2017, 12:06 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Shia and Sunni are only dangerous when they leave their countries and come to ours. If they stay contained in their God forsaken waste lands--Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc--they present no danger to the United States or Europe.
Parading your ignorance of the world outside America again, I see.

A couple of examples of Iranian architecture, from Isfahan and Shiraz.





I could also mention that much of the devastation in the other countries you mention was caused by the US and its allies.

I strongly recommend doing some basic research before posting. These countries have a long and rich history, exquisite architecture, and a great deal of literary and culinary prowess. Not to mention being the cradle of civilisation. You embarrass yourself and your country by airily dismissing these countries as "God-forsaken wastelands", whilst displaying a total lack of sympathy for the victims of the conflicts there.
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Old 16th September 2017, 01:37 AM   #63
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Iran is a wasteland. So is Kansas. A few pretty pictures don't change that.
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Old 16th September 2017, 03:27 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Iran is a wasteland. So is Kansas. A few pretty pictures don't change that.
So apart from the evidence that Iran is not a wasteland, it is, in your opinion.
Nice.

Have you actually visited Iran? I have, and it is by no means a wasteland.

Unless we're going by the standard American definition, in which a wasteland is anywhere that isn't America.
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Old 16th September 2017, 10:01 AM   #65
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Only one person to my knowledge is trying to wrest control of US foreign policy from the deep state, and he has introduced an amendment to repeal the Authorization for the Use of Force Act which is the fig leaf the Deep State has used to attack 7? countries in the last 16 years ....

Rand Paul: Why we must repeal the 16-year-old Authorization for the Use of Military Force

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Old 16th September 2017, 11:12 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Only one person to my knowledge is trying to wrest control of US foreign policy from the deep state, and he has introduced an amendment to repeal the Authorization for the Use of Force Act which is the fig leaf the Deep State has used to attack 7? countries in the last 16 years ....

Rand Paul: Why we must repeal the 16-year-old Authorization for the Use of Military Force
If it is possible for the US Senate to change military policy, then it is not controlled by the Deep State.
Thank you for debunking your own argument.
/End thread.
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Old 16th September 2017, 11:16 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Shia and Sunni are only dangerous when they leave their countries and come to ours. If they stay contained in their God forsaken waste lands--Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc--they present no danger to the United States or Europe.
Actually they do, they seek converts in those nations. While also seeking to influence those Muslims already there, to do their bloody bidding.
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Old 16th September 2017, 11:19 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
So apart from the evidence that Iran is not a wasteland, it is, in your opinion.
Nice.

Have you actually visited Iran? I have, and it is by no means a wasteland.

Unless we're going by the standard American definition, in which a wasteland is anywhere that isn't America.
I've been to Iran, briefly, but I worked in the region for decades and knew a large number of Iranians and I'm about to publish a book that records a 19th century expedition that passed thru that country to the Central Asia. I know a bit about Iran. Sucky government, lovely country & good people (mostly).
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Old 16th September 2017, 11:22 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Only one person to my knowledge is trying to wrest control of US foreign policy from the deep state, and he has introduced an amendment to repeal the Authorization for the Use of Force Act which is the fig leaf the Deep State has used to attack 7? countries in the last 16 years ....

Rand Paul: Why we must repeal the 16-year-old Authorization for the Use of Military Force

https://i.imgur.com/A67mG6l.png
Strangely Saggy Rand Paul doesn't mention the Jews or the deep state. Do you ever read your own links?
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Old 16th September 2017, 11:23 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Iran is a wasteland. So is Kansas. A few pretty pictures don't change that.
I've been to both and would pick Iran over Kansas, except for the part around Manhattan (Ks)
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Old 16th September 2017, 11:23 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post

That is not logical- if they really believed in what they claim they must realize that they are making themselves targets for the most immoral, most powerful, most lawless conspiracy on the planet, a conspiracy with the means and motivation to track them down and disappear them, or frame them for a crime, or simply have them "meet with an accident." I could accept it if someone believed in such a conspiracy and then quietly and carefully went to work to secretly undermine it. But to shout it into the vacuum of cyberspace achieves little and certainly (given the magnitude of the conspiracy) would allow the "truther" to be tracked down (do you really believe that the NSA cannot identify members of ISF if sufficiently motivated?).

Obviously I do not believe any of this crap, but I suspect neither do the advocates who profess it. So the good news is that we are both safe.
Many really do believe it and then act in totally illogical ways. My sister is one of them. She thinks some secret organized group is out to kill her by remote weapon and public harassment (gangstalking). Hundreds of conspirators track her every move, installing all sorts of devices but always cover up before she can share the evidence. There is an entire internet subculture that validate her. Lots of books and videos too!
She will swear she will be dead by morning but doesn't take any drastic action to prevent it other than pillows on her head.

I've learned not to even ask "If that is true, why don't you..."
It's turtles all the way down from there.

It's a bit like stories of evil haunted houses where the victims claim the spirits are out to kill them but they don't leave the house. There is some underlying willingness to remain in the danger. There is a purpose to the danger itself.
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Old 17th September 2017, 01:43 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Strangely Saggy Rand Paul doesn't mention the Jews or the deep state. Do you ever read your own links?
He also doesn't seem too bothered about "risking all" by going public on this issue.

Neither, for that matter, does Saggy.
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Old 17th September 2017, 08:13 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
He also doesn't seem too bothered about "risking all" by going public on this issue.

Neither, for that matter, does Saggy.

Yes the super deadly 'deep state', that doesn't actually kill the people who are exposing it.....Saggy refused to explain why the 'da joos' allow him to exist and to try and spread his message of hate!

It's kinda comical in a sick sort of way.
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Old 17th September 2017, 03:44 PM   #74
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Paul's speech on the amendment to end the AUMF, probably the best thing heard in the US Congress in the last 15 years ...

Incredible speech! Senator Rand Paul on America's unlimited, unconstitutional wars (NDAA/AUMF)(Full)

EDIT:

The next day, the Congress kills the amendment .... Zion rules the US thru the Deep State .....

Senators KILL Rand Paul's Amendment To Force Congress To Vote On Current Wars
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Last edited by Saggy; 17th September 2017 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 17th September 2017, 05:00 PM   #75
Hans
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Paul's speech on the amendment to end the AUMF, probably the best thing heard in the US Congress in the last 15 years ...

Incredible speech! Senator Rand Paul on America's unlimited, unconstitutional wars (NDAA/AUMF)(Full)

EDIT:

The next day, the Congress kills the amendment .... Zion rules the US thru the Deep State .....

Senators KILL Rand Paul's Amendment To Force Congress To Vote On Current Wars
All part of the constitutional government. How come the 'deep state' cannot control you and Rand Paul?
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Old 17th September 2017, 05:15 PM   #76
LSSBB
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Paul's speech on the amendment to end the AUMF, probably the best thing heard in the US Congress in the last 15 years ...

Incredible speech! Senator Rand Paul on America's unlimited, unconstitutional wars (NDAA/AUMF)(Full)

EDIT:

The next day, the Congress kills the amendment .... Zion rules the US thru the Deep State .....

Senators KILL Rand Paul's Amendment To Force Congress To Vote On Current Wars
How is Congress the Deep State?
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Old 17th September 2017, 05:24 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
How is Congress the Deep State?
I believe that Saggy holds that 'da evil joos' are controlling the US Congress.
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Old 17th September 2017, 08:14 PM   #78
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Deep State/Shadow Gub'mint gets the blame from people who don't know or understand how the government works.

Example: Obama came into office with a list of promises that he never kept because there's a big difference between what you think can be done, and what can actually be done. His big promise was to get us out of Iraq, and when negotiations with the Iraqi government stalled over legal status the President threw in the towel, and claimed the job was done.

He sent troops back to Iraq three years later thanks to ISIS, a problem we helped create.

Pulling out of Iraq proved to be a problem wrought with unforeseen consequences of which the US is obligated to deal with.

Obama came to power after the big '07 Crash with promises of infrastructure improvements which included "Shovel Ready Jobs". The vision was along the lines of FDR's WPA, but the problem is that FDR didn't have the EPA gumming up the works. Projects have to wait for EIR's and review, and amended EIR's before work can start. Many of the projects introduced in 2009/2010 are still only in the planning stages.

Not sure how a Shadow Government benefits from any of this.

How does Israel benefit with the weapons stolen from the former arsenals of Iraq, Syria, and Libya now in the hands of hundreds of thousands of freshly minted militants created by our adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan? Those weapons will eventually be pointed at them, so how is our continued campaigns against Al Qaeda and ISIS a good thing for Israel?
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Old 17th September 2017, 08:31 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Parading your ignorance of the world outside America again, I see.

A couple of examples of Iranian architecture, from Isfahan and Shiraz.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1214/...92e7a1e4_b.jpg

http://www.artfido.com/blog/wp-conte...domiri-231.jpg

I could also mention that much of the devastation in the other countries you mention was caused by the US and its allies.

I strongly recommend doing some basic research before posting. These countries have a long and rich history, exquisite architecture, and a great deal of literary and culinary prowess. Not to mention being the cradle of civilisation. You embarrass yourself and your country by airily dismissing these countries as "God-forsaken wastelands", whilst displaying a total lack of sympathy for the victims of the conflicts there.
There's no doubt these places can point to greatness in their past. My point is that the present day population does not present a danger to the United States if they stay where they are. Only when they come to our lands do they become dangerous. Since there's so much beauty in their God forsaken wastelands, they should stay where they are. And, yes, the United States should stop interfering over there. Countries in the middle east can fight their wars without our help.
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Old 17th September 2017, 10:21 PM   #80
Hans
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
There's no doubt these places can point to greatness in their past. My point is that the present day population does not present a danger to the United States if they stay where they are. Only when they come to our lands do they become dangerous. Since there's so much beauty in their God forsaken wastelands, they should stay where they are. And, yes, the United States should stop interfering over there. Countries in the middle east can fight their wars without our help.
Ah an isolationist. Okay what happens if the Middle-East oil supply is disrupted, now that would not be initially dangerous to the US but deadly to India, China, Japan and Europe - what then - ignore that too?

What about if the Arabs got organized and attacked Israe. Israel is about to be overrun and goes nuclear, the Iranians and Pakistani get involved 2-300 warheads go off poisoning the planet - you think that might cause a problem in Kansas?
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